' starmer was elected. so keir starmer was photographed with a waspi sign saying i support fair compensation. liz kendall stood up compensation. liz kendall stood up in the commons yesterday and she said, this injustice cannot go on. rachel reeves brandished a poster saying she will work for a fair solution for all women affected. the first solution seems to be now they are in power the £22 billion black hole would be zilch. absolutely nothing. the ombudsman said there should be a payout. they are now saying most of the women were informed about it and should have planned accordingly, so there will be no money. get in touch. we have also on the line a craig and peter borough and a former teacher from craig and peter borough and a former teacherfrom brighton. for those joining former teacherfrom brighton. for thosejoining isjust now, listening to how angry you are,

you feel you are being patronised as well? yes, i do. this whole _ patronised as well? yes, i do. this whole argument - patronised as well? yes, i do. this whole argument about i this whole argument about reading letters. i have got my letter from 2012. reading letters. i have got my letterfrom 2012. it reading letters. i have got my letter from 2012. it is filed along with all the rest of my pension information. it is deeply offensive and it is deeply offensive and it is deeply patronising and it is disingenuous. 0ne deeply patronising and it is disingenuous. one minute to be saying yes, you have got a case, this is an injustice and then the next minute to say no, actually we don't believe you, we don't believe that you didn't know. do we don't believe that you didn't know.— we don't believe that you didn't know. do you feel you have been — didn't know. do you feel you have been lied _ didn't know. do you feel you have been lied to? - didn't know. do you feel you have been lied to? yes, - didn't know. do you feel you have been lied to? yes, i. didn't know. do you feel you l have been lied to? yes, i do. yes, i do. — have been lied to? yes, i do. yes, i do. i— have been lied to? yes, i do. yes, i do. ifeel_ have been lied to? yes, i do. yes, i do. ifeelthat- have been lied to? yes, i do. l yes, i do. ifeelthat somebody yes, i do. ifeel that somebody said earlier in a people can take these decisions and then as soon as they get into power,

then actually it doesn't work for them. then actually it doesn't work for them-— then actually it doesn't work for them. . ,, , , ., for them. chain in sussex, not our for them. chain in sussex, not your real— for them. chain in sussex, not your real name, _ for them. chain in sussex, not your real name, but _ for them. chain in sussex, not your real name, but what - for them. chain in sussex, not. your real name, but what would your real name, but what would you like to say about this? i have got a couple of things i have — have got a couple of things i have been concerned about. things— have been concerned about. things that really annoy me, first— things that really annoy me, first of— things that really annoy me, first of all. if you want to take _ first of all. if you want to take five _ first of all. if you want to take five years worth of pension away from a man, i don't — pension away from a man, i don't think we would be having this conversation. because each consecutive government knows 'olly consecutive government knows jolly well, these women will probably not do much about it or make — probably not do much about it or make much fuss about it. i agree — or make much fuss about it. i agree with _ or make much fuss about it. i agree with the main speaker that— agree with the main speaker that women are being patronised dreadfully here and treated very— dreadfully here and treated very badly. the other point i wanted _ very badly. the other point i wanted to make, i planned for my retirement, we are always tell, _ my retirement, we are always tell, have _ my retirement, we are always tell, have you got savings, plan — tell, have you got savings, plan for _ tell, have you got savings, plan for your retirement, yes i did~ _ plan for your retirement, yes i did~ the — plan for your retirement, yes i did. the government came along and said. — did. the government came along and said, you cannot have it. so at — and said, you cannot have it. so at 71, _ and said, you cannot have it. so at 71, i_ and said, you cannot have it. so at 71, i am still working,

because _ so at 71, i am still working, because like many women at my age. _ because like many women at my age, i— because like many women at my age. i have — because like many women at my age, i have a mortgage. when you think— age, i have a mortgage. when you think about three years of tension. — you think about three years of tension, that would have been £30,000. £30,000, so please dont— £30,000. £30,000, so please don't try— £30,000. £30,000, so please don't try to compare it with a little — don't try to compare it with a little tax _ don't try to compare it with a little tax rise. we have to suck _ little tax rise. we have to suck it _ little tax rise. we have to suck it up _ little tax rise. we have to suck it up when it is a tax rise. _ suck it up when it is a tax rise. this _ suck it up when it is a tax rise, this is not a tax rise, it is— rise, this is not a tax rise, it is years _ rise, this is not a tax rise, it is years and years and thousands of pounds that have been _ thousands of pounds that have been pulled away from people of my age — been pulled away from people of my age. it is not about whether we knew— my age. it is not about whether we knew are not, we were fighting _ we knew are not, we were fighting for it before. people have — fighting for it before. people have been fighting and saying, this is— have been fighting and saying, this is not— have been fighting and saying, this is not right, when we did know — this is not right, when we did know it _ this is not right, when we did know it is _ this is not right, when we did know. it is a terrible injustice for women and the government should be ashamed. for both — government should be ashamed. for both of you, excellent you have got in touch. for you both, and we will hear from julian in a second in 0rpington, so of standby we will be right with you. there is a point made in the daily telegraph this morning which

points out what it refers to as labour's dishonesty but makes the argument they should be no payout. it is the disingenuousness that they are talking about, but they say, for example, jeremy hunt, he announced in the budget the rate on capital gains tax would be cut from 28% to 24%. the treasury didn't write to anyone to inform them, selling a property before the change would have cost you thousands of pounds, but it's not the government's fault you didn't know, it is your loss, it is not their fault you didn't know? i not their fault you didn't know? ., �* ~' not their fault you didn't know? ., �* ~ ., , know? i don't think it matters whether we — know? i don't think it matters whether we knew _ know? i don't think it matters whether we knew or - know? i don't think it matters whether we knew or not, - know? i don't think it matters whether we knew or not, it i know? i don't think it matters i whether we knew or not, it was an injustice _ whether we knew or not, it was an injustice in the first place _ an injustice in the first - lace. ., an injustice in the first lace, ., , ., an injustice in the first lace. ., ., , place. there are so many injustices _ place. there are so many injustices in _ place. there are so many injustices in the - place. there are so many injustices in the benefit l place. there are so many i injustices in the benefit and pension system, just innumerable. this whole campaign is treating women as victims and ifind campaign is treating women as victims and i find that really annoying. i spent all of my

life campaigning for equality and that meant that actually, women's pension age had to rise and men's pension age had to rise because we are all living too long. stop being treated as a victim and take control and responsibility.— a victim and take control and responsibility.- can - a victim and take control and responsibility.- can i . responsibility. jane. can i come back _ responsibility. jane. can i come back in _ responsibility. jane. can i come back in here? - responsibility. jane. can i | come back in here? come responsibility. jane. can i - come back in here? come back in after we have _ come back in here? come back in after we have heard _ come back in here? come back in after we have heard from - after we have heard from julian. i am after we have heard from julian. iam hearing after we have heard from julian. i am hearing simmering rage through this. fix, julian. i am hearing simmering rage through this.— rage through this. a couple of oints, rage through this. a couple of points. the — rage through this. a couple of points, the point _ rage through this. a couple of points, the point about - rage through this. a couple of points, the point about you i points, the point about you didn't— points, the point about you didn't know, _ points, the point about you didn't know, this— points, the point about you didn't know, this change i points, the point about you didn't know, this change ofj points, the point about you - didn't know, this change of the pension— didn't know, this change of the pension age _ didn't know, this change of the pension age was _ didn't know, this change of the pension age was a _ didn't know, this change of the pension age was a matter - didn't know, this change of the pension age was a matter of i pension age was a matter of public— pension age was a matter of public record, _ pension age was a matter of public record, it _ pension age was a matter of public record, it was - pension age was a matter of public record, it was well i public record, it was well publicised, _ public record, it was well publicised, it— public record, it was well publicised, it was - public record, it was well publicised, it was in i public record, it was well publicised, it was in the. public record, it was well i publicised, it was in the press and you — publicised, it was in the press and you can _ publicised, it was in the press and you can access _ publicised, it was in the press and you can access this - publicised, it was in the pressj and you can access this online and _ and you can access this online and you — and you can access this online and you can _ and you can access this online and you can check _ and you can access this online and you can check what - and you can access this online and you can check what your. and you can check what your pension— and you can check what your pension age _ and you can check what your pension age is— and you can check what your pension age is going - and you can check what your pension age is going to i and you can check what your pension age is going to be. i pension age is going to be. mine — pension age is going to be. mine has _ pension age is going to be. mine has changed - pension age is going to be. mine has changed several. pension age is going to be. i mine has changed several times over the — mine has changed several times

over the years _ mine has changed several times over the years. it _ mine has changed several times over the years. it is— mine has changed several times over the years. it is a _ mine has changed several times over the years. it is a bit- over the years. it is a bit bogus— over the years. it is a bit bogus to _ over the years. it is a bit bogus to say— over the years. it is a bit bogus to say they- over the years. it is a bit bogus to say they didn'tl over the years. it is a bit- bogus to say they didn't know. this— bogus to say they didn't know. this injustice _ bogus to say they didn't know. this injustice and _ bogus to say they didn't know. this injustice and it— bogus to say they didn't know. this injustice and it is- this injustice and it is unfair, _ this injustice and it is unfair, you _ this injustice and it is unfair, you can - this injustice and it is unfair, you can turn l this injustice and it is. unfair, you can turn that this injustice and it is- unfair, you can turn that on its head _ unfair, you can turn that on its head and _ unfair, you can turn that on its head and say, _ unfair, you can turn that on its head and say, hold i unfair, you can turn that on its head and say, hold on, i unfair, you can turn that on l its head and say, hold on, all those — its head and say, hold on, all those years _ its head and say, hold on, all those years they _ its head and say, hold on, all those years they carried i its head and say, hold on, all those years they carried on . those years they carried on working. _ those years they carried on working. is— those years they carried on working, is it _ those years they carried on working, is it unfair- those years they carried on working, is it unfair on i those years they carried on i working, is it unfair on them? it working, is it unfair on them? it is— working, is it unfair on them? it is a — working, is it unfair on them? it is a matter— working, is it unfair on them? it is a matter of— working, is it unfair on them? it is a matter of equality - working, is it unfair on them? it is a matter of equality but l it is a matter of equality but they— it is a matter of equality but they have _ it is a matter of equality but they have equalised - it is a matter of equality but they have equalised the i it is a matter of equality but i they have equalised the pension a-e they have equalised the pension age and — they have equalised the pension age and for— they have equalised the pension age and for a _ they have equalised the pension age and for a certain— they have equalised the pension age and for a certain group- they have equalised the pension age and for a certain group of. age and for a certain group of women, _ age and for a certain group of women, it— age and for a certain group of women, it is— age and for a certain group of women, it is at— age and for a certain group of women, it is at the _ age and for a certain group of women, it is at the cost - age and for a certain group of women, it is at the cost of. women, it is at the cost of that— women, it is at the cost of that equality, _ women, it is at the cost of that equality, changing i women, it is at the cost of. that equality, changing their pension— that equality, changing their pension age. _ that equality, changing their pension age, do _ that equality, changing their pension age, do you - that equality, changing their pension age, do you want i that equality, changing their pension age, do you want a i pension age, do you want a quality— pension age, do you want a quality or— pension age, do you want a quality or not? _ pension age, do you want a quality or not?— pension age, do you want a quality or not? there is more euuali quality or not? there is more equality today _ quality or not? there is more equality today than _ quality or not? there is more equality today than there i quality or not? there is more j equality today than there was when — equality today than there was when we _ equality today than there was when we were actually starting our working careers. actually, tots _ our working careers. actually, lots of — our working careers. actually, lots of women were not able to 'oin lots of women were not able to join pension schemes. first of all, join pension schemes. first of all. make _ join pension schemes. first of all, make it clear, we have never— all, make it clear, we have never disagreed with the equalisation of pensions, it was — equalisation of pensions, it was the _ equalisation of pensions, it was the way in which it was

done — was the way in which it was done. women were disadvantaged, my age _ done. women were disadvantaged, my age were disadvantaged and not able — my age were disadvantaged and not able tojoin pension schemes and they were stopped from _ schemes and they were stopped from joining pension schemes. lots— from joining pension schemes. lots of— from joining pension schemes. lots of women, they paid the married — lots of women, they paid the married women's stamp and they were _ married women's stamp and they were disadvantaged in that way. lots of— were disadvantaged in that way. lots of women had work that was very poorly— lots of women had work that was very poorly paid so they end a lot less — very poorly paid so they end a lot less than men. women's pensions _ lot less than men. women's pensions were much smaller than men's _ pensions were much smaller than men's in — pensions were much smaller than men's in the first place. women do take — men's in the first place. women do take control and they did -et do take control and they did get financial advice. somebody i get financial advice. somebody i know — get financial advice. somebody i know was advised by a financial adviser and took the advice — financial adviser and took the advice that she would be able to retire — advice that she would be able to retire at 60. then found hersetf— to retire at 60. then found herself in— to retire at 60. then found herself in the most dreadful position— herself in the most dreadful position when she discovered she had — position when she discovered she had to wait until 66. as for information, it really wasn't _ for information, it really wasn't well reported in the papers _ wasn't well reported in the papers. that isjust not true. this— papers. that isjust not true. this is— papers. that isjust not true. this is interesting. you seem to be saying, julian, it is

people's moral duty, financial duty to go and find out and inform themselves? {lat duty to go and find out and inform themselves? of course, it is, we inform themselves? of course, it is. we have _ inform themselves? of course, it is, we have to _ inform themselves? of course, it is, we have to take _ it is, we have to take responsibility, - it is, we have to take responsibility, it i it is, we have to take responsibility, it is i it is, we have to take. responsibility, it is not it is, we have to take i responsibility, it is not a nanny— responsibility, it is not a nanny state. _ responsibility, it is not a nanny state. you - responsibility, it is not a nanny state. you look. responsibility, it is not a i nanny state. you look after your— nanny state. you look after your own _ nanny state. you look after your own financial - nanny state. you look after your own financial affairs, i nanny state. you look after. your own financial affairs, not wait _ your own financial affairs, not wait for — your own financial affairs, not wait for a _ your own financial affairs, not wait for a letter _ your own financial affairs, not wait for a letter to _ your own financial affairs, not wait for a letter to drop - your own financial affairs, not wait for a letter to drop on i wait for a letter to drop on your— wait for a letter to drop on your doorstep— wait for a letter to drop on your doorstep to _ wait for a letter to drop on your doorstep to say - wait for a letter to drop on your doorstep to say you l wait for a letter to drop on i your doorstep to say you have changed — your doorstep to say you have changed pension _ your doorstep to say you have changed pension age. - your doorstep to say you have changed pension age.- your doorstep to say you have changed pension age. yes, you can expect _ changed pension age. yes, you can expect a — changed pension age. yes, you can expect a letter. _ changed pension age. yes, you can expect a letter. hang i changed pension age. yes, you can expect a letter. hang on i can expect a letter. hang on everyone- — can expect a letter. hang on everyone- we _ can expect a letter. hang on everyone. we will _ can expect a letter. hang on everyone. we will go - can expect a letter. hang on everyone. we will go to i can expect a letter. hang on i everyone. we will go to maureen in telford and a keen gravesend. jane, i'm sure you want to come back in on julian's point? i want to come back in on julian's point?— want to come back in on julian's point? i found myself almost laughing _ julian's point? i found myself almost laughing about i julian's point? i found myself almost laughing about you i julian's point? i found myself. almost laughing about you must take responsibility and plan. what — take responsibility and plan. what is _ take responsibility and plan. what is the point in making plans— what is the point in making plans when your plan can be taken — plans when your plan can be taken away by a government decision— taken away by a government decision overnight. you can make — decision overnight. you can make plans, fantastic plans for

your— make plans, fantastic plans for your retirement and you think, we can— your retirement and you think, we can manage, we must retire. both— we can manage, we must retire. both my— we can manage, we must retire. both my husband and i are still working. — both my husband and i are still working, we are both well over retirement age. i will take responsibility, i did take responsibility, i did take responsibility but somebody else — responsibility but somebody else moved the goalposts. we have _ else moved the goalposts. we have to — else moved the goalposts. we have to take it, but whatever the result _ have to take it, but whatever the result of that is, it has been — the result of that is, it has been ii _ the result of that is, it has been 11 years... the result of that is, it has been 11 years. . ._ the result of that is, it has been 11 years... the goalposts are moved _ been 11 years... the goalposts are moved on _ been 11 years... the goalposts are moved on every _ been 11 years... the goalposts are moved on every single i are moved on every single budget. are moved on every single budaet. ~ ., .,, are moved on every single budaet. ~ . ., are moved on every single buduet, . ., .,, ., , budget. what was that, sorry? the gold coasts _ budget. what was that, sorry? the gold coasts move - budget. what was that, sorry? the gold coasts move every i the gold coasts move every single budget for some people? for some people, but not that much — for some people, but not that much if— for some people, but not that much. if you had six extra years— much. if you had six extra years of— much. if you had six extra years of pension, that is £60,000, that could pay your mortgage or buy you something, it is a _ mortgage or buy you something, it is a lot — mortgage or buy you something, it is a lot of— mortgage or buy you something, it is a lot of money to have

taken _ it is a lot of money to have taken away. it's not like somebody saying you have to pay an extra — somebody saying you have to pay an extra £10 a week or £10 a month— an extra £10 a week or £10 a month on— an extra £10 a week or £10 a month on tax, we all have do that — month on tax, we all have do that it — month on tax, we all have do that it is _ month on tax, we all have do that it is a _ month on tax, we all have do that. it is a plot that was put away — that. it is a plot that was put away that _ that. it is a plot that was put away that you be able to retire after _ away that you be able to retire after working all your life. we are unable to do that now. nicky— are unable to do that now. nicky gravesend, good morning. did you see this coming? yes. nicky gravesend, good morning. did you see this coming?- did you see this coming? yes, i knew about _ did you see this coming? yes, i knew about it. _ did you see this coming? yes, i knew about it. i _ did you see this coming? yes, i knew about it. i don't _ did you see this coming? yes, i knew about it. i don't know- knew about it. i don't know where the other women live, because i knew about it in 1995. i am one of five sisters and we all discussed when we would be able to retire. i got a letter a while back to say that i would be working until 64 and eight months. i was quite happy with that because obviously, as that gentleman said, we wanted equality and therefore we got it. the only thing annoyed me is they did change the goalposts and i had

to work until 66. i was 17 yesterday so i have only been retired for four years.- retired for four years. many ha - retired for four years. many happy returns. _ retired for four years. many happy returns. i— retired for four years. many happy returns. i honestly i retired for four years. many i happy returns. i honestly don't know where — happy returns. i honestly don't know where they _ happy returns. i honestly don't know where they wear - happy returns. i honestly don'tj know wher