tonight, in an exclusive interview, the mother of a girl operated on by a now—disgraced surgeon at great ormond street hospital says her daughter should never been in his care — and she accuses the children's hospital of "gaslighting" her. and from waspi women, pensioners unlikely to get winter fuel payments by the end of the year, and an nhs facing a "quad—demic", is sir keir starmer facing a winter of discontent? we'll ask labour's former shadow home secretary and a recent tory defector to reform. good evening. welcome to newsnight, brought to you live each week night from broadcasting house with insight and interviews.

your panellists this evening — labour's diane abbott, mother of the house, and tim montgomerie, who resigned from the conservative party in order tojoin reform uk. tonight, an exclusive interview with a mum of three from essex who accuses the most famous children's hospital in the world — great ormond st in london — of "gaslighting" her family over a disgraced surgeon who operated on her daughter. we'll hear from jodee seeley, who is preparing to sue the hospital, and 11—year—old alana in a moment. first, bbc health investigations reporter chloe hayward is here. so, tell us about the surgeon who operated on alannah and many others, and the case against him. his operated on alannah and many others, and the case against him.— and the case against him. his name is dr jabber. — and the case against him. his name is drjabbar. and — and the case against him. his name is dr jabbar, and worked _ and the case against him. his name is drjabbar, and worked in - is drjabbar, and worked in orthopaedic realignment, limbs, knees and that sort of thing. he started in royal chelsea where he

became a consultant and moved over to great ormond street as a consult of the children in 2017. a lot of the cases there were children had very complex needs. in terms of personality, i've spoken to a lot of the families involved, they all talk about how he was quite arrogant, quite flippant, and very rarely listen to the true concerns these families had. so overall it really gave this sense of questioning his level of professionalism when he was at work there. in terms of the concerns and what he is accused of, he started in great ormond street in 2017 and was active for five years there, and in that time, he came across 723 patients. the concerns were first raised in 2020. a patient said, i am quite worried about what is going on. it led to a report that was given to the medical director, but that was largely ignored, and in august 2021, mrjabbar had a bike accident which led to him being off work suddenly, so his colleague, sarah mcmahon, also a surgeon in this slower limp specialist area,

was asked to cover his patients. she stepped up and looked up to his patient, but in that time, she quite quickly said that she was concerned about some of the outcome is that she was seeing, and raised concerns in 2021. it took over a year for jabbar to be put on sabbatical and an independent review to be asked for by great ormond street hospital. eventually in october 2023, this report comes out, saying that there was inappropriate surgeries conducted on children that led to life changing injuries. it was only then when this will college of surgeons report came out that great ormond street said every one of those 723 patients will have an independent report done on their care. as i said, i have been talking to a mum of three and full—time carer,, carerjodee carer,, seeley. she's never spoken publicly before. her daughter, then aged eight, was operated on by drjabbar back in 2022 to try and help straighten her knee by inserting

eight plates in it, which he said would help her with walking. in this exclusive interview, jodee seeley tells us after the surgery her daughter's mobiity got worse, and she felt sick when she realised the scale of what drjabbar was accused of; she felt guilty about her placing her daughter under his care; and she accuses great ormond street of gaslighting her. in this interview, alana is alongside her mum. she has a complex chromosome abnormality and autism. mrs seeley told me how drjabbar said the operation he could perform would help her daughter. his words were that it was the best thing to try first of all, because it would have the best impact immediately on her mobility, because it would have the most impact immediately on her mobility, so that was the best thing to try and do, that it would put the knee into place and help with the leg turning, and then from there, we could assess whether anything else needed to be done to help her. and were you comfortable with all that? i thought it was odd, because he didn't really explain very much, but he just seemed really confident that it wasn't a big deal,

so at that point, we didn't want to rock the boat too much, because he seemed like he knew exactly what he was doing. he took one look and said, right, that's what we need to do, so we kind of went along with it, thinking, he's an orthopaedic surgeon at great ormond street, so we trusted him. how long was that first consultation? i think we were probably in there about five minutes. yeah. really?! it really wasn't very long. he came in late, we were sat down, and he said, yeah, we need to do that, it's going to be one cut. we'll put you on the list and then we'll talk about it nearer the time, and that was it. right. and at this point, alana was eight? yeah. the operation was the following january, january 2022. how did it go? the actual operation at that point was fine. when did you first think, i'm not sure this operation�*s right? i think when her bandage came off a couple of weeks later,

she actually had two scars on the inside of her knee, and we were told it would be one, so obviously, alarm bells rang at that point. and then, as the weeks have gone on, her mobility isn't any better. in fact, she was complaining of pain quite a lot, but we did expect regular follow—ups, which is what we were told would happen, obviously, to keep monitoring the growth plate. and did the follow—ups and the monitoring happen? they didn't, no, so it was a good six months before they saw her. we waited to see him, as he was the one who fitted the plates, and when he came in and looked at the screen, he said they needed to come out immediately, and that we... could we come back the following day to have them removed as an emergency case. why? why immediately? what had changed? he was worried that the tendons could have fused to the metal, but i at the time felt that may be either the procedure wasn't but i at the time felt that maybe either the procedure wasn't the right procedure for her,

or that there was something wrong with the plates, and maybe it was causing her leg to be painful. and so when he said that to you, what were you thinking then? we were really panicked. we were really worried, and thought, oh, goodness, what have we done? you know, is she 0k, has it had long—term damage? you became so concerned, you moved your daughter to a different hospital under the care of a different consultant. we did, yeah. so that was at the end of last year, but her mobility has worsened considerably. so how did you find out drjabbar had been reported to senior managers at great ormond street hospital for professional conduct, for surgical conduct? so, we received a letter in february this year. well, to be honest, it wasn't very detailed. it just said that they were looking into all of his cases. including your daughter, obviously. including, and that they would give everyone an individual report within the next year, they were hoping to do it by.

it seemed like quite a general letter, almost as if an auditing purpose, nothing to worry about, so, i mean, i wasn't surprised at the point, because we'd already moved hospitals, but i did not realise the scale of it or what had actually happened, or that there'd been so many complaints. when did you realise the scale of it, i.e. that the patients who were under the care of drjabbar, being looked at, their cases being looked at, and that other surgeons had blown the whistle on him? the first that i was made aware of this was, i literally had woken up one sunday morning to look at the news, and an article had been created regarding what had actually happened, and i think the most upsetting point of that was that great ormond street were aware of it and had made a comment in the news article, but still hadn't made any

of the parents or families aware that that was going to happen, so it was a massive shock. and again, i think it was something that we could have been a bit more prepared for. so when you say it was a massive shock, what was going through your head, then? because this was the surgeon who operated on alana. ijust felt sick, to be honest. i felt absolutely devastated, and as a parent, obviously, you want to protect your child. it's the number one priority, and i knew something was amiss when we had seen him and they tried to discharge her, and his attitude, now i look at it, i don't necessarily feel that it was confidence. i feel that it was a lack of caring. so it's just been awful. it's literally something that we think about and is on our minds every day. i am just going to run through the timeline for our audience. 0k. so, injune 2020, a surgeon called rob hill complained about drjabbar, so you might class him as a whistle—blower.

so that'sjune 2020. march 2021, yours and alana's first consultation with drjabbar. september 2021, according to a senior labour mp in the commons, she reported that a second surgeon called sarah mcmahon had blown the whistle on drjabbar. january 2022, you had your operation, alana. june 2022, sarah mcmahon raised the alarm again about drjabbar, by this time writing formally to senior managers. august 2022, drjabbartook the plates out from alana's knee. so when you look at those dates, had senior managers at great ormond street hospital acted earlier, your daughter might never have been under his care? she should never have met him. we shouldn't be here now. we shouldn't have necessarily had that procedure. everything could have been different

if they had looked at everything properly a couple of years ago and she was under a different consultant. her mobility might be better. we wouldn't have suffered all the things that have gone on. i mean, even now, alana doesn't like going into hospital because of the bad experiences she's had. but it never should have occurred. someone should have done something sooner. how does that make you feel, as alana's mum? i feel guilty and i feel incredibly let down. ifeel like i haven't got any trust in any nhs hospitals now, to be honest. i'm obviously devastated. we're still having falls, and ijust think, you know, could things be different for her now, and is she getting the best quality of life? because now we've wasted a few years, notjust wasted it, but actually, it has had a massive negative effect, so, yeah, ifeel extremely frustrated, beyond frustrated.

i don't know how, obviously, so many people are involved, it's the trust, so it's not one person, it's a whole culture, and a whole group of people. somebody could have done something, and i can't understand why nothing has been done, or wasn't done sooner. i don't understand. interestingly, you did hear from great ormond street hospital today, just before you arrived and before we started talking. yeah. they got in touch with you. they did. is that a coincidence or not? so, i feel like they have been pushed to do that, because they are aware that i would be coming to talk to you today, so, yeah, it does absolutely feel like they have been gaslighting us the whole way along. this is the first time you have spoken publicly about your experience. why are you speaking out? it's really important for other people to know what's happened, to understand if they are being gaslighted as well, that they are not alone, that this is what is going on. and also for great ormond street,

for the consultants, everybody, to say we are notjust going to go quietly and accept this. it's not good enough, and somebody needs to be accountable. well, more than one person. this is obviously the most famous children's hospital pretty much in the world. yeah. it is renowned for incredible care and in multiple cases, it has delivered incredible care for children. yeah. how do you think they have handled this? it's terrible, isn't it? because i absolutely appreciate that so many departments in that hospital do amazing work, and people come from all over to be treated there, and that's obviously why we were so pleased when alana was referred there. butjust in the case of this, it's been absolutely horrendous, and it remains to be, and nothing seems to be concluded. we are awaiting for alana's individual report, and nobody has contacted me for our individual

experience, so, no, i don't think it's going to be accurate at all. and how long have you been waiting to have a conversation with them about what happened ? well, we first received the letter about the investigations in february, and i still haven't heard anything specifically regarding ala na's case. are you considering taking legal action against great ormond street? potentially. i mean, ithink, obviously, there's a lot of other cases that are involved. for me, it's more about accountability and changing process and making them look at what's happened and how they can prevent it in future, and if that means that alana's case gets looked at, and that we had some money to help her get the treatment she needs, then obviously, that would be an extra thing that... but, yeah, it's not the purpose for it. jodee and alana, thank you very much for talking to newsnight. thank you. you can get your sweets now, yes.

chloe is still here. so everyone wants to know, where is drjabbar now? he wants to know, where is dr jabbar now? , ., , ., ., now? he resigned from great ormond street hospital_ now? he resigned from great ormond street hospital in _ now? he resigned from great ormond street hospital in september- now? he resigned from great ormond street hospital in september 2023 - street hospital in september 2023 and gave up his license to practise in the uk injanuary this year. after that, we know he was in dubai in february 2024 and he was apparently practising and doing surgery over there. until september this year, sojust surgery over there. until september this year, so just a few months ago when the times published its story with the elite royal college of surgeons report, we subsequently haven't heard anything from him. we haven't heard anything from him. we have tried across many programmes on the bbc. fin have tried across many programmes on the bbc. , , have tried across many programmes on the sac. , y ., the bbc. on newsnight, we try to get him on or get — the bbc. on newsnight, we try to get him on or get a _ the bbc. on newsnight, we try to get him on or get a statement _ the bbc. on newsnight, we try to get him on or get a statement and - the bbc. on newsnight, we try to get him on or get a statement and with l him on or get a statement and with nojoy. we him on or get a statement and with no “0 . ~ ., �* him on or get a statement and with no “0 . ~ . �* ., him on or get a statement and with no'o. . �* ., no joy. we haven't heard anything from him. no joy. we haven't heard anything from him- he _ no joy. we haven't heard anything from him. he did _ no joy. we haven't heard anything from him. he did give _ no joy. we haven't heard anything from him. he did give a _ no joy. we haven't heard anything | from him. he did give a statement no joy. we haven't heard anything i from him. he did give a statement to the times when they first published the times when they first published the report. slightly bizarre, he quoted us president theodore rees about and quoted us president theodore rees aboutand said, quoted us president theodore rees about and said, it is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, the credit belongs to the man who is actually at the arena who at the

worst, at least if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly. 0k, what happens now? {3 is least fails while daring greatly. ok, what happens now? g is within this 18 month _ ok, what happens now? g is within this 18 month process _ ok, what happens now? g is within this 18 month process to _ ok, what happens now? g is within this 18 month process to go - ok, what happens now? g is within | this 18 month process to go through this 18 month process to go through this patience and give each person an independent report —— gosh. we had the last update in october. then they said they had done 61 reports. so the chance of them getting through all 723 within this 18 month window they set themselves is frankly very unlikely. so it does seem there is a long wait for many parents as they wait for those answers. ., ~' parents as they wait for those answers. ., ~ , ., y parents as they wait for those answers. ., ~ , ., , . ., a spokesperson for great ormond street hospital said it was sorry to all of the concerned families, adding that after the royal college of surgeons report, it asked external experts to review alljabbar�*s patients. the statement goes on: "they are working at pace. we understand why alana and her family are worried and we have reached out to them. we are sorry they feel that that information was withheld from them. 0nce concerns were raised about the surgeon's practice injune

2022, we shared these with the general medical council and undertook rapid fact—finding. during this period, the surgeon's practice was restricted to simple procedures, and always as part of a wider surgical team. we are now updating patients regularly about the progress of the review. we are aware there were concerns regarding specific patients in 2021 that were raised as formal incidents and were fully investigated. the findings in each individual case and collectively did not trigger the threshold for initiating further action at that time." thank you very much, chloe. we are going to talk politics now. thank you for being hit on this wednesday evening. at pmqs today, the waspi women and rejection of compensation by the labour government came up again and where does that go? it did dominate the — again and where does that go? it c c dominate the discussion in the corridors of westminster. there is a

growing expectation that in the new year, there will be a debate and vote in the house of commons on this. the government are not going to do that. it looks like and conservatives won't do that because kemi badenoch only mentioned it briefly in passing at prime minister's questions today. the feeling is it will be to the liberal democrats to devote one of their opposition days to this in the house of commons. the view amongst the liberal democrats at the moment is the government should be doing this and it is their big decision or not decision. they should have a vote. the government won't do that and the thinking is the liberal democrats will find it irresistible to avoid exposing those labour divisions and they were on display today. diane had that question to keir starmer at pmqs. i have to say all those labour mps sitting behind diane, they were silent and they had long faces. they were not happy. but there are quite a few labour mps mainly of the younger generations who are very supportive. 50 younger generations who are very supportive-_

supportive. so you asked diane abbott, do _ supportive. so you asked diane abbott. do you _ supportive. so you asked diane abbott, do you really _ supportive. so you asked diane i abbott, do you really understand supportive. so you asked diane - abbott, do you really understand how let down waspi women feel? he abbott, do you really understand how let down waspi women feel?- let down waspi women feel? he said he did understand. _ let down waspi women feel? he said he did understand. no, _ let down waspi women feel? he said he did understand. no, he _ let down waspi women feel? he said he did understand. no, he doesn't. l he did understand. no, he doesn't. that is_ he did understand. no, he doesn't. that is the — he did understand. no, he doesn't. that is the problem, he doesn't. 0ne that is the problem, he doesn't. one of the _ that is the problem, he doesn't. one of the things — that is the problem, he doesn't. one of the things about ella bright is he has _ of the things about ella bright is he has only been in the party relatively— he has only been in the party relatively short period of time. he was dpp_ relatively short period of time. he was dpp until 2014 and could not have _ was dpp until 2014 and could not have been— was dpp until 2014 and could not have been a member of the party. then_ have been a member of the party. then he _ have been a member of the party. then he got parachuted... didn't have _ then he got parachuted... didn't have to — then he got parachuted... didn't have to contest for it. then because it was— have to contest for it. then because it was a _ have to contest for it. then because it was a safe — have to contest for it. then because it was a safe seat, he didn't have to fight— it was a safe seat, he didn't have to fight for— it was a safe seat, he didn't have to fight for that. and he has no feel to fight for that. and he has no feet for— to fight for that. and he has no feel for politics. you might say he has a _ feel for politics. you might say he has a great — feel for politics. you might say he has a great feel for politics because _ has a great feel for politics because he smashed people like me, but he _ because he smashed people like me, but he has _ because he smashed people like me, but he has no feel for politics. he does _ but he has no feel for politics. he does not — but he has no feel for politics. he does not understand how they feel. remember, he is on a big fat dpp pension, — remember, he is on a big fat dpp pension, what does he know about ageing _ pension, what does he know about ageing women who really depend on the state _ ageing women who really depend on the state pension question what he doesn't _ the state pension question what he doesn't know. he the state pension question what he doesn't know— the state pension question what he | doesn't know._ he doesn't know. he is your leader. he is our doesn't know. he is your leader. he is your prime _ doesn't know. he is your leader. he is your prime minister. _ doesn't know. he is your leader. he is your prime minister. yes, - doesn't know. he is your leader. he is your prime minister. yes, he's i doesn't know. he is your leader. he| is your prime minister. yes, he's my leador— is your prime minister. yes, he's my leader and _ is your prime minister. yes, he's my leader and my prime minister. therefore, i am entitled to say what

i therefore, i am entitled to say what ithink~ _ therefore, i am entitled to say what i think. there therefore, i am entitled to say what ithink. there is therefore, i am entitled to say what i think. there is more therefore, i am entitled to say what ithink. there is more i therefore, i am entitled to say what i think. there is more i could say. go on. _ i think. there is more i could say. 60 on. diane. _ i think. there is more i could say. go on, diane, go on! no, he doesn't understand — go on, diane, go on! no, he doesn't understand how _ go on, diane, go on! no, he doesn't understand how they _ go on, diane, go on! no, he doesn't understand how they feel. _ go on, diane, go on! no, he doesn't understand how they feel. the - go on, diane, go on! no, he doesn't understand how they feel. the other thin- understand how they feel. the other thing he _ understand how they feel. the other thing he doesn't know because he wasn't _ thing he doesn't know because he wasn't an— thing he doesn't know because he wasn't an mp at the time is how persistent— wasn't an mp at the time is how persistent they were and how committed they work to their campaign. committed they work to their campaign-— committed they work to their camaiun. �* ., ,, ., , campaign. and how widespread is the feelin: campaign. and how widespread is the feeling amongst _ campaign. and how widespread is the feeling amongst labour _ campaign. and how widespread is the feeling amongst labour mps - campaign. and how widespread is the feeling amongst labour mps who - campaign. and how widespread is the feeling amongst labour mps who are | feeling amongst labour mps who are upset with this government decision? because it was not in the manifesto, was not promised, was it? i because it was not in the manifesto, was not promised, was it?— was not promised, was it? i think a lot of mps are _ was not promised, was it? i think a lot of mps are very _ was not promised, was it? i think a lot of mps are very unhappy. - was not promised, was it? i think a lot of mps are very unhappy. it - was not promised, was it? i think a | lot of mps are very unhappy. it may be lot of mps are very unhappy. it may he the _ lot of mps are very unhappy. it may he the new— lot of mps are very unhappy. it may be the new intake will march with ella bright over a cliff. but a lot of mps — ella bright over a cliff. but a lot of mps who had their photo taken with waspi women. —— will march with keir stanner— with waspi women. —— will march with keir starmer over a cliff. mps will io keir starmer over a cliff. mps will go back— keir starmer over a cliff. mps will go back to — keir starmer over a cliff. mps will go back to their constituents and they will— go back to their constituents and they will hear what 1419