be honest, it is an emotion, to be honest, it is an observation. one can only imagine how hard it is for her. sheet must be devastated and so tired after four months of listening to this, the accused saying i didn't know that she had not given her consent, although she was at times asleep or unconscious, she was snoring, it's really difficult to imagine how someone can think that a woman or anyone had given their consent when they are not there. they are unconscious. it has been an ordealfor her. many unconscious. it has been an ordeal for her. many people have been watching this. there is a group of feminist that you can see in the background, they have come here today to hand out oranges. that is really french. i am going to bring some oranges which basically means the person is in prison, and you don't have access to oranges. they have come here to

show their support. it symbolic. as we talk, let me tell those who have joined us we have had another sentencing, this is one of the very youngest men on trial, only 22 years old when he went to dominique pelicot�*s house, he was a video and pornography addict, he is described as solitary, socially awkward, he went to the house to attack gisele pelicot six times, he has been sentenced to 13 years in prison. it is lower than the 16 years that prosecutors had asked for. i am being told that the children of gisele pelicot in particular david and caroline look unhappy with that sentencing. i am caroline look unhappy with that sentencing. iam hearing caroline look unhappy with that sentencing. i am hearing that the sentencing of some of these men is lower than what the prosecutors had asked for. we

cannot look into the mind of thejudge, we will get explanations later. the judge, we will get explanations later. that must happen impact on the family. they seem very exhausted when they arrived here, they were not showing any emotion, they seem very tired in the courtroom, and they were certainly hoping for a very tough sentences as many people here in france were saying, could be a watershed for france, for europe, for the world, to show that if you rape someone, if you are found guilty of raping someone, you get it tough prison sentence. it is rather certain that if it's not the maximum sentence that the accusation asked for, if they do not hand in that sentence, the family and also others who are supporting them will be unhappy. meanwhile, we have seen that some of the accused who have received their sentences have shown their anger and frustration, it is not for nothing that a lot of

police here today, there are 150 to 200, three per abuse person, they were expecting anger and frustrated reactions by them. anger and frustrated reactions b them. . ., ., , by them. the crowd outside the courtroom _ by them. the crowd outside the courtroom has _ by them. the crowd outside the courtroom has gone _ by them. the crowd outside the courtroom has gone quiet. - by them. the crowd outside the courtroom has gone quiet. like| courtroom has gone quiet. like us, they are probably reading these sentences as they happen. let me bring another sentence now at this moment. the sa—year—old, he has been sentenced to eight years in prison despite a difficult childhood, he said he had a happy life until his 18—year—old son was killed in a car accident, 18—year—old son was killed in a caraccident, he 18—year—old son was killed in a car accident, he has rejected accusations of rape, he said he thought he was taking part in a game between dominique pelicot and his wife. he has been

sentenced to eight years in prison. let's carry on if we can, we are bringing you those sentences. let's talk to a lawyer who specialises in cases of sexual assault and who has been very patiently waiting to speak to us on bbc news. i know i was about to talk to you when the sentencing began. i apologise for that. let me bring you and at the point, it is the pertinent moment for you to comment because i wanted to ask you if i may, we have been hearing that the sentences are in some cases shorter than what the prosecutors have asked for. given the reaction of the family, shorter than what the family, shorter than what the family had hoped for. what is your reaction to that?-

your reaction to that? these cases show _ your reaction to that? these cases show how _ your reaction to that? these cases show how france - your reaction to that? these i cases show how france access rate as a common everyday crime. given what has happened, given the extreme case we have here where she is the perfect victim, we will never have women like her again who had been drugged and serially raped and filmed and where the husband admits that he has done this with all these men, she is the perfect victim, and if this is the most that the system gives to signal what it thinks the rape of women, this is a statement on culture on her society, and what we do about it? is the watershed moment as a woman recently said, there is no question about it, culturally, legally, how do we respond to this crime? it's an epidemic rate. i work in britain and the united states, we do sexual assault cases, rape cases all the time, it's really hard to get a

conviction, in this case, there was no defence, she was drunk, she led them on she was dressed in sexy clothes, she is a 17—year—old women, and if those women cannot get strong sentences for the men who raped her, they know women can. this is the most the system is probably ever going to give to any man who commits these acts. this is really important to hear today what the french system thinks about it. the french system is better than the british system, i must say, as a british listener right now, if a woman is raped in britain, she will not go to trial until february 2027. think about what that means if you are a person who has been raped, you are in this witness... women who go forward, people are threatened not to go forward, the evidence disappears. in britain, we are not taking this as a serious crime, and in france, we are hearing today what the french

judicial system thinks about rape when it happens to a woman who is defenceless and has done nothing to ask for this. this is what they do to the men who have done that. still, many men will say that they didn't know they did anything wrong. it is hard to imagine that this is the case. it is hard to imagine gisele pelicot, she was demeaned by the frenchjudicial system. the people, they said she was a part of this, they demeaned her. against the evidence that was overwhelming. her husband had written on her body and they had found this terrible things to humiliate her on her body, he had the main take their aftershave, cut their nails so they didn't leave any marks on her, they had to warm their hands, he took such care for the perfect crime and these men participated in that. if this is what the french system says is what the french system says is the worst that can happen if

you do that, perhaps some men will think i will take the risk. the penalty is not going to be great and there are lots of defences out there. i hope this changes the whole discussion. i hope the conversation changes. we look at these websites where men can offer images of their wives who do not consent to this or are not aware and they offer them offers a —— sex, and we talk about the system and ask what it means. what does consent mean? how does it manifest itself in what should we do in terms of the law and our culture. educate people, this is not acceptable.— is not acceptable. sorry to interruot. _ is not acceptable. sorry to interrupt, you _ is not acceptable. sorry to interrupt, you said - is not acceptable. sorry to - interrupt, you said something very interesting about consent, i wanted to talk about consent. interestingly, one of the defendants in his defence, he said, and i quote, i did not know what consent was. to most

of us, that would seem incredible. what does that tell us about the way in which consent is viewed in france and where the answer lies to this. the answer lies with men. i am going to be provocative, it is time for men to stand up and speak out and tell us what consent looks like, should look like, what they think it is because it is not only an issue for women, because it is not only an issue forwomen, it because it is not only an issue for women, it is an issue that confronts ourfamilies, all for women, it is an issue that confronts our families, all of us. i would like to start to hear men comment on consent, what we should do culturally to change the way the world works, it is so easy to see women violated all the time online. what are we going to do about that? we have to have that conversation and i hope that this case triggers the conversation and a meaningful way, not only in france but in the uk, in the united states, across the world. i

the uk, in the united states, across the world.— the uk, in the united states, across the world. i am going to tell viewers _ across the world. i am going to tell viewers about _ across the world. i am going to tell viewers about another - tell viewers about another sentence, the 70—year—old who was born in morocco and sent france delivers his uncle before before ending up hopeless. —— homeless. he has been given eight years in prison. he denied raping gisele pelicot, in the holiday home of her daughter, despite the video evidence, he was found guilty and sentenced to eight years. the trend is continuing, the sentences are generally at least a couple of years are lower than what has been asked by prosecutors. that is surely going to have an impact on gisele pelicot and herfamily. it will have an impact, but these men are getting substantial sentences. they are multi—year sentences. whether they are enough or not, that is a decision people will have to consider themselves and see if

thatis consider themselves and see if that is fair. remember, gisele they will be in prison to cons iser this. it they will be in prison to cons is fair. 5. it they will be in prison to cons is fair. remember, gisele pelicot is changing the whole that is fair. remember, gisele pelicot is changing the whole world in a way. there was a world in a way. there was a nine—year—old recently who was nine—year—old recently who was raped in france and she went raped in france and she went public with it because she said public with it because she said because of gisele pelicot, the because of gisele pelicot, the nine—year—old site i heard nine—year—old site i heard this, i watch this, and this, i watch this, and nine—year—old site i heard this, iwatch this, and i nine—year—old site i heard this, i watch this, and i am nine—year—old site i heard this, iwatch this, and i nine—year—old site i heard this, i watch this, and i am not going to be filled with not going to be filled with shame, i am going to speak up shame, i am going to speak up and bring my case forward. we and bring my case forward. we have tangible evidence of the have tangible evidence of the good that has come from this good that has come from this trial, from gisele pelicot trial, from gisele pelicot considerthis. it going public and saying the going public and saying the shame is not on us. it is not shame is not on us. it is not my shame. it is somebody my shame. it is somebody else's. that is what the else's. that is what the sentences do. they assign shame sentences do. they assign shame to the men who have raped and to the men who have raped and sexually assaulted gisele sexually assaulted gisele pelicot. that is the good news pelicot. that is the good news today. the system is working, a today. the system is working, a bit, sure, iwould bit, sure, iwould today. the system is working, a bit, sure, i would like to work today. the system is working, a bit, sure, i would like to work better, but the system is better, but the system is working, these men will all working, these men will all spend time in prison to spend time in prison to consider what they have done or consider what they have done or to get even more angry. but to get even more angry. but

they will be in prison to they will be in prison to consider this. they will be in prison to consider this. they will be in prison to considerthis. it they will be in prison to consider this. it is a good day for women, for france, for justice, a very good day. thank ou ve justice, a very good day. thank you very much- _ justice, a very good day. thank you very much. i _ justice, a very good day. thank you very much. i wonder - justice, a very good day. thank. you very much. i wonder whether you very much. i wonder whether you would stay and come back on the programme as we carry on listening to the sentencing. you are watching and listening to a bbc news special with the bbc and me outside the palais dejustice, the court room which has been the epicentre of this case which has horrified, shocked and captivated much of this country. and indeed the world. it saw a man stand on trial guilty as of today of drugging and raping his wife, gisele pelicot, and inviting 50, at least 50 other men to do

the same. over the last 30 minutes or so, we have been hearing the sentencing of all of these men. the headline todayis of these men. the headline today is that dominique pelicot has been found guilty and sentenced to 20 years in prison for his crimes. other men are being sentence as we speak. understandably, it is taking a long time for thejudge understandably, it is taking a long time for the judge to get through all the names and to put forward the sentencing. but we are hearing sentences of between three and 13 years for most of the other men. there is one outlier in this case, that isjean—pierre marechal, who is jean—pierre marechal, who has isjean—pierre marechal, who has been given 12 years for

isjean—pierre marechal, who has been given 1 of ears for isjean—pierre marechal, who has been given 1 of the . for isjean—pierre marechal, who has been given 1 of the things accused of. one of the things that sets this case apart from any other case is the bravery of gisele pelicot. she has become an icon here in france. particularly amongst the feminist movement, but to be honest, i have been hearing from people coming up to me and talking to me throughout the time i have been here, about her bravery, ordinary people, she waived her right to anonymity near the beginning of this case, and she went from being gisele pelicot, to underline the fact that in her belief, women who are abused, women who are accused are seen under a cloud of shame, gisele

pelicot said herself she wants shame to change sides. she wants shame to be put on the accused and not on the abuser. it is a trial that was described by former prime minister as a watershed moment for french society. he said that there will be a before and there will be an after this case. that is really the hope of many activists and watchers of many activists and watchers of french society. we are joined byjamie, we spoke earlier, i know that gisele pelicot has featured in the new european as an iconic figure. talk to me about your reaction to the sentences and the verdicts we have been hearing in the last half an r. it’s verdicts we have been hearing in the last half an r.— in the last half an r. it's a hard day _ in the last half an r. it's a

hard day to _ in the last half an r. it's a hard day to hear - in the last half an r. it's a hard day to hear how - in the last half an r. it's a | hard day to hear how many in the last half an r. it's a - hard day to hear how many men participated and we need to recognise there are more men and they did not see and come forward and confess their actions and feel the shame and on what they did to her. those men will not be prosecuted because they were not identified. it is not that there is an eruption of men learning what consent is in taking responsibility and accountability for their actions. these men have been covering their faces, actions. these men have been covering theirfaces, covering their heads while gisele pelicot has stood out with her shoulders back and forth all of us to acknowledge and accept what was done to her over ten years. there is no sentence that will be enough. obviously, i wish they had been prosecuted to the absolute extent of the law, i also think in england, we are going to look at it and say we would have done more. the fact of the matter is there is a 1.7% conviction rate for rape in this country and we need to think about what that

does to victims, their future, their mental health, their possibilities, our whole system has focused on what the women did and what their sexual history was, what responsibility they played and we didn't fight hard enough or scream loud enough are taken of defence classes. the fact is this is not on us, we need to use the work done by the women in the uk, the kind of work that focuses on the perpetrators are not the victims. that conversational shift, i did not think it was going to happen in my lifetime, no matter what work we do, it feels you are screaming into a void a lot, but gisele pelicot gave me the right to think this could change, and in doing so, erupting a new conversation that has amazed and mystified me, she is on the court room holding her head up high, i am crying off camera listening to

your reporting, let alone had it happen to me and my family and setting their understanding and setting their understanding and looking at each of those men and forcing them to see what they did to her.- what they did to her. jamie, ou are what they did to her. jamie, you are right. _ what they did to her. jamie, you are right, just _ what they did to her. jamie, you are right, just having i you are right, just having followed this case from the beginning and seen the way that gisele pelicot has conducted herself, even today, walking into court with a smile on her face, looking almost radiant and graceful in the way that she moved into court. it says a lot about how she sees herself. she has been made an icon by so many in france, and she has lived up to that in the way that she has behave throughout this case. ~ ,,., , that she has behave throughout thiscase. , , _ this case. absolutely, by refusing _ this case. absolutely, by refusing to _ this case. absolutely, by refusing to accept - this case. absolutely, by refusing to accept the i this case. absolutely, by - refusing to accept the shame, when i first read about it, she was anonymous, and everything i thought was oh, my god, how

will she exist, go to the supermarket, how will she exist in life knowing this was done to her and finding all this out. by ticking off the shroud, standing up to them, forcing the court who did not want to watch the videos to see the videos and forcing journalists to watch the videos, it is nothing short of revolutionary. it has completely changed how i think about her. this morning, i am texting friends, i cannot cry, she is not crying, i am not going to cry talking about her bravery. it is dramatic, vicariously dramatic, the people standing out there, all of us know women who have been attacked, women who have privately told their stories. they do not need to be told crying by ourselves, we can own our stores and we can say them aloud and say what was done to us without it being our fault. jamie, thank you very much for joining us once again. you are

with me on this bbc news special as we cover the verdict and sentencing in the case that has gripped and horrified the nation in equal measure. the case and the men who are accused and had been found guilty of raping and sexually abusing her. top of that list of men, dominique pelicot, husband of gisele pelicot for 15 years, by all accounts they had what was described as the perfect marriage. he will now be spending the next 20 years in prison after being sentenced by a judge for the crime of drugging and raping his wife and then allowing and indeed inviting many, many other men to do the same. we are getting

continuous reports of sentencing of these men. i am trying my best to get through some of them. let me tell you about the 30—year—old accused, nobility, of repaying gisele pelicot, he is in the run and morocco, he has no intention of returning to france. he has been giving a sentence of 12 years in absentia. hassan oumou, one of the defendant who has been found guilty of this crime. let's talk about what this means french society as we continue to get these sentences coming into us. let's talk to

the historian and fellow of harvard university, katie, it is freezing cold outside the court room, we are here together with our hundred and 50 or so supporters and protesters. if i read the placards, one of them says, thank you for your courage, gisele pelicot, and it has taken courage for her to do what she did. she wants to make a difference. do you think she has done that?— has done that? she has done everything — has done that? she has done everything possible - has done that? she has done everything possible that - has done that? she has done everything possible that she | everything possible that she could to make a difference, the question is whether french society and the pursuit of justice is done the same. we are hearing the sentence and, it is lower than what we expected, and some people, because of their suspended sentences, may be walking free today. what does that tell us? can shame really change sides? it seems that shame is stickier than we wanted it to be.- than we wanted it to be. tells me a little — than we wanted it to be. tells me a little bit _ than we wanted it to be. tells me a little bit about - than we wanted it to be. tells me a little bit about french i me a little bit about french

society because the legal system as such here that the term consent is not included when it comes to the definition of rape. and that has been something that activists have really wanted to push for change on. how likely do you think it is we are going to see the changes that many of these active and standing outside the courtroom want to see? what active and standing outside the courtroom want to see? what is really strange — courtroom want to see? what is really strange that _ courtroom want to see? what is really strange that even - courtroom want to see? what is really strange that even though | really strange that even though consent is not part of the definition of rape by french law, surprise is, having sex with someone by surprise, surprise has been understood as sleep and someone being unconscious. in this case, consent was not relevant for the judgment of rape, surprise would have done it, but under the existing legislation, the sentences have been lower than what we expected. i think one of the key things we should take away from this trial given how much of it, how many of these crimes were organised via

a chat room with no legislation, is how to regulate the spaces online in which videos are shared and advices given on how to rape women. stay with me, i am hearing that the sentencing on the 51 men is now over. the sentencing of the 51 men is over. you are with me outside the court room. journalists here waiting for gisele pelicot and the defendants to leave the courtroom. judge has completed the sentencing. katie mentioned, the top sentence, the longest goes to dominique pelicot, 20 years in prison, the other accused, the other guilty have been given sentences of, i think, from memory, between two or three

years to 13 years. we are expecting a statement from gisele pelicot at some point outside the court room here in avignon. she told waiting reporters she would give a statement as she walked in, so we are expecting that at some point in the next few minutes. we are also going to try and bring you a full list of the verdicts and sentences because as katie mentioned, some of the sentences are such that the men who have already been in prison for a number of years may actually be able to walk free today. that may be the case in a few of these cases. i want to be absolutely certain who that is happening to and why that is happening before i give you that information. let's bring

katie back in. you know, i spoke to you before, you talked about the doctorjekyll and mr hyde when we look at dominique pelicot, and that is frightening because he and all the other men in this case are ordinary men, right? they are councillors, builders, shop workers, a nurse, a firefighter, that is, you know, something that we need to think about. it reflects, you know, every part of society, doesn't it? i every part of society, doesn't it? 4' every part of society, doesn't it? ~ ., ., it? i think one of the most difficult things _ it? i think one of the most difficult things for - it? i think one of the most difficult things for people | it? i think one of the most. difficult things for people to grapple with when hearing about this case from the very beginning to the end is the question of whether it could have happened to me. because it happened when you are asleep, you do not know who could have done it and you do not see any of the signs. one of the key things that can come out of

this case and has already come out and is a very brave thing that caroline has done is the organisation that is trying to get medical professionals and laboratories to test people more rigorously and to check whether this kind of thing has happened to them. you simply don't know who to trust any more. . . ~' don't know who to trust any more. ., ., ~ i. ,., don't know who to trust any more. . . ~ ,, . more. katie, thank you so much for that. more. katie, thank you so much for that- let _ more. katie, thank you so much for that. let me _ more. katie, thank you so much for that. let me bring _ more. katie, thank you so much for that. let me bring in - more. katie, thank you so much for that. let me bring in and, i for that. let me bring in and, you had stayed with us, i am so grateful to you for doing that. you specialise in law and sexual abuse cases, you will know a lot more about this than many of those who are with me here on bbc news. let me ask you this. we are hearing these sentences, some of these accused we believe could leave prison today because i've already spent time in prison having given sentences that are low enough to enable them to do

that, the french legal system is such that in cases like this, there is nojury, there is a judge who puts forward verdict and sentencing. do you think that makes a difference? i am not a french journalist or lawyer, i am a british solicitor and an american lawyer. it seems to me we have a different system. certainly, the british and american systems when it comes to rape are broken, they did not work. it is very hard to get a conviction in the united states are with the jury orjudge and the same in britain. one of those crimes that no one has a handle on, no one is trying to do anything with it, the police here in london at many of them are guilty of rape and sexual assault, and they are still under investigation, there are still police officers, at that

level, people are adverse, guilty of breaking the law to such a degree, is not a one—off, domestic abuse is common, once a week in britain a direct allegation has been made by a partner to a metropolitan police officer that she has been the victim of domestic violence. if we had that kind of culture, certainly we are not going to have justice in the criminal prosecutions of rape. our better course is to have a civil system, we do a lot of civil system, we do a lot of civil cases against men who are accused of raping women, and that at least gets us another type ofjustice, but those men can only be found guilty if the system works and what you have to go for its money damages because money is the currency ofjustice. that is what we do. men who do not have assets, the civil system will not do much to getjustice for civil system will not do much to get justice for those civil system will not do much to getjustice for those women who have been raped by those

men. it is really very hard, we need a