here on bbc news, al pacino looks back on his career. music: love theme from the

godfather by nino rota you out at the end credits. i don't know how to do anything else. neitherdo i. i don't much want to either. neitherdo i. now, for the first time, al pacino has written down his own story, from growing up in new york to the present day here in los angeles, where he's lived for a quarter of a century to be near his children. near his children. and last year, and last year,

he became a dad again. he became a dad again. and that is just one and that is just one of the many subjects of the many subjects which feature in his which feature in his new autobiography, sonny boy, new autobiography, sonny boy, and that he recently and that he recently discussed with me, once discussed with me, once upon a time in hollywood. upon a time in hollywood. i was performing since i was just a little boy. my mother used to take me to the movies when i was as young as three or four years old. she didn't know that she was supplying me with a future. i was immediately attached to watching actors on the screen. since i never had playmates in our apartment and we didn't have a television set yet, i would have nothing but time to think about the movie i had

seen the night before. i'd go through the characters in my head, and i would bring them to life, in a way, one by one, in the apartment i lived in. i learned at an early age to make friends with my imagination. al pacino. yes. autobiographies — drew barrymore was 15 when she wrote her first one, miley cyrus, 16. the british footballer wayne rooney, he waited till he was 20. you, 8a. why the wait? enough has happened to me that it could possibly be interesting for someone to read, i thought. it was fun once i started it. i enjoyed thinking about things

that had happened to me and my childhood and stuff, and that sort of was spurring me on. they called me sonny and paci, their nickname for pacino. they also called me pistachio. i liked pistachio ice cream, so they called me that. the autobiography deals a lot with family and fatherhood, obviously. he's still, you know, too young. everything he does is real. everything he does is interesting to me, you know? so, we...we talk. i play the harmonica with him, and we made this kind of contact, so it's fun. it's fun to have, like, four kids now. and you realise how much fun it is to have children. there is a certain fascination with you being a dad at 83.

did you have any reservations about the age? i'd want to be around for this child. of course i did. and i hope i am. i hope i stay healthy and he knows who his dad is, of course. something that hasn't always stayed healthy is pacino's bank balance. take a hollywood lifestyle, combine with some wild spending and a crooked accountant who ended up behind bars, and you're left with...nothing, when you thought you'd got $50 million tucked away. 2011, you basically go, "i'm running out of money." i was out of money. i was gone, and my accountant was in prison...because of it, and other people too. you go into the amount of money you were spending every month. oh, my god. $100,000 a month. and didn't know about it. yeah. how does that happen?

i don't know. you gotta be dumb enough, first of all. ijust didn't get it. you know, istill don't. i don't understand that kind of thing. and i don't know why. i heard francis coppola recently talking about how he doesn't care. he says what's — money is not first. itjust never was with me. although, i mean, i like... i mean, we need it. we have to have it, you know? and i'm all for it. but at the same time, i just don't understand it, and so... you say in the book that it did affect your choice of films, and you were doing projects for the money. that's right. how was that experience? well, when you gotta, you gotta, you know. sometimes you just... my experience is to work, the fact that i'm lucky enough to be in the position that i'm in, that i can work and get paid for it like that. and it was in my 70s. you're not getting the same paydays any more and things change. but that was all right. found ways of dealing with it. wow!

al pacino! it's not al any more. it's dunk. dunkaccino? # what's my name? dunkaccino! # dunka, dunka, dunka, dunka dunkaccino! 55” and, boom, there you have it. it's actually 32 seconds, so i gotta lose two seconds. maybe you can tell me what part you would lose, but i think we are getting there. burn this. i made, uh...i made some adjustments. but i still... every role i play, i'm playing it. it's serious to me. i'm going to try to present something. with my successes, my failures, it's like, you know, you just keep going. you just keep going. that's it. hey, remember me? benny blanco from the bronx? over the years, al pacino has died on screen more times than most, usually dispatched with a bullet. but in 2020, an encounter with covid resulted in a real—life

near—death experience. you seem to still be trying to work out whether you did die or not. i don't think i died. i thought i did. it felt like i did, because there was something — then there was nothing. no fall, no anything. there wasjust nothing. which was, in retrospect, was sort of frightening. everybody sort of flipped out. i was out, and i opened my eyes, there were five paramedics in my living room. there were two doctors who looked like spacemen, and there was an ambulance in front of my house. and people think i don't believe in an afterlife because i said that i saw nothing when i... maybe there's no afterlife for me, you know? maybe someone else is going somewhere because they... they did what i didn't do. there's no sequel. no sequel! no. exactly. i think. . . it's crazy. it's too much to even comprehend how, why you can actually go through this life,

and then it's over, and you don't even know about it? you don't even... all the things i remember end, they die and it's all over? it's very hard to conceive of that. there have been great people who have thought it through and talked about it, but it's something i don't think i have any idea what to expect. just lie here, pop. i'll take care of you now. i'm with you now. i'm with you. let's talk about the godfather. yes, finally. colin laughs when i say that... something that i understand. when i say that, how does it make you feel? do you still... do you still feel, like, proud of it? do you feel excited to talk about it? you know, i would say that... how did that happen? i was lucky, because francis coppola saw me on stage on broadway.

once you were in the role of the godfather... yeah. ..they wanted rid of you. how close did you come to being sacked from the godfather? well, i guess it's when your director talks to you and says, you know, "i had a lot of faith in you, man. what's happening? "you're not delivering." i didn't know what i was doing right or wrong, but francis told me, "i want you to take a look at the rushes...", the footage that we had shot, . because you're not making it. you're not cutting it." i kind of knew i wasn't, but i was prepared for that because that was the way i wanted to go with the character. i wanted to start from, you know, someone who was in, you know, he wasn't someone you recognised right away or your eye went to. he was in the background. and that was my plan, to go through the entire text and have this arc, and finally reach to the part

where you say, "what? where did this guy come from? "this is an enigma," you know? that's what i was going for. i didn't know how to articulate what i was doing. i didn't know how to say to francis, "well, this is the way i'm starting, "but i have plans to take this character into different levels "until he's, you know, where he winds up." but they were losing patience. oh, yeah. they wanted something else. according to film folklore, and with those movie executives circling, francis ford coppola made sure pacino became the leading man they couldn't refuse. crockery smashes they say that francis moved that scene up. he claims he didn't. but it seems like that would be the thing to do, get to the meat, because that's what the studio wants to see. and that saved you?

so it saved me. i got in that scene, and i did it not knowing what was going on. i always felt i wasn't wanted and that kind of feeling. but they liked the scene and that was it. who were they going to replace you with, do you think? could you see anyone lurking around? bob de niro comes to mind. they laugh what, he could have been in an earlier godfather? yeah. that would have been... he was great in that godfather ii. yeah. but you honestly think they could have replaced you with him for the first one? yeah, sure. why not? well, you know, i'm not irreplaceable. not yet. to me, godfather is a great film because of francis ford coppola and how he put that together. in the �*70s, you and robert de niro were both having these explosions at the same time. you know, he's doing

mean streets... dustin hoffman was in there. they used to put the three of us together a lot. we were always... we were new york actors. brother, you are going down. despite them both starring in the godfather part ii, heat, made 20 years later, was the first time pacino and de niro had appeared together on screen. one reason for that long wait mightjust be hollywood's seemingly random casting processes, which can leave even the biggest stars pondering over a long list of movie might—have—beens dating back to the 19705. it's a heck of a time for cinema. new hollywood — and george lucas wanted you to be han solo in star wars. why didn't you go for that one? i read the script and i don't understand it. i mean, how am i going to play it? i don't know...

i don't understand these things. any regrets? no, not on that. plenty of regrets, but not on that. no. 0ne role you did get, tony montana, scarface. yes. even as i say that, you start smiling. yes! what is it about that film? i don't know, man, it's got something. ok, i'm not out in 15 minutes, something's wrong, 0k? and, you know, we had so much trouble on this when it first came out. this is really a happy story. you make a film like scarface. it took us almost a year making it, actually shooting it with the great brian de palma and the great oliver stone writing it, and marty bregman the great producing it. it's his vision. and theyjust got blasted by the press and everything. there was people coming, you know, we had an audience, but it didn't last. its reputation just built

and built and built, especially with love from the hip—hop community as well. it was the hip—hop community. it was the rappers that embraced it and were able to see the story in there. is there part of you that wishes your best actor 0scar was for that film? you know, that's interesting. i didn't get nominated for that film, but i was doing a play in san francisco, and when i came out in the afternoon and the nominations had come out, i wasn't nominated, the crowd, that was out there waiting for me when i... did this 0scar like this. for me. a made 0scar. it was much bigger than the original, and they presented it to me and i thought, that was... i still have it. you know, it's... that was a great gift. i mean, it really, it really touched me.

and it wasn't until scent of a woman, ten years later, and his eighth nomination, the pacino finally shook off that 0scarsjinx and won the big one — best actor for his performance as retired army general frank slade. piano and strings play if you've been around a lot... ..sooner or later, and you've been nominated and nominated, they're sort of looking for a way to give you an oscar. you know, it's funny. and, uh, not that i... i turned my back on scent of a woman, i understand, but that's where i received it. that was after eight nominations. you have played a lot of alpha male characters over the years. yes. how do you think masculinity... 0h, don't make me laugh! ..has changed during your career? standouts usually have me with a gun. mm. they say, "give pacino a gun. you got a hit."

how does that make you feel, that quote? well, if i... tell you the truth, if it's true, fine. it's ok. they said that about james cagney, edward g robinson, humphrey bogart. these were big stars. but, you know, edward g robinson was nothing like his films, and he was a great actor. and so was cagney. orson welles says cagney�*s the greatest actor that he ever saw. and so it's very tricky. and you have to understand that you get parts that are suited, and if you score in those roles, there's more to come. when you take the characters i've played, you take godfather, you take donnie brasco, different, not the same people. you take scarface, certainly different than those two. carlito's way, different.

so i don't see a similarity, even. they belong in a certain spectrum, but they're different. i don't see repeating in those characters. i try to avoid that. you've played a lot of real characters as well. everyone from hoffa to phil spector. now your book's out there. yeah. if someone bought the rights to that, how would you feel about your life story being turned into a film with someone playing you? i would be sort of embarrassed, but it's ok, you know? imean... why would you be embarrassed? i don't know why. i mean, because it's not me, really. but that's ok, you know? i mean, i did serpico, right? mm. serpico, big picture — but, i mean, when it was on the stands to buy the book, and there was my picture on the cover, serpico. and i said, "but it's a book." and it's that...

i'm not serpico — but i was a famous actor then. so, you know, how do you think he felt, you know? that'd be a heck of a thing, for someone to play al pacino. really? yeah. well, there's me, and then there's the roles i played. who do you view nowadays as being, like, say, three actors who could be the equivalent? oh, that's something good to think about. i have to... i would have to think about it. you know, there are actors i really like today, there are wonderful actors today. well, of course, there's leo. dicaprio. there's adam driver. 0oh, right. yeah. and, uh, some of the others... these are well known. yeah. you can say their names and people know who you're talking about. maurizio. yes. how are you? i'm good. you had a good day today, huh? it was good? i mean, i showed you everything i could show you in one sitting. yes. — thank you very much, uncle. it's beautiful here.

i say this because patrizia has told me that you may be interested in learning about our business. in interview: i can see others coming along, you know? - they're coming along. and i'm very thrilled by some of the performances i've been seeing. there's quantity, you know, and you've got those streamers. a lot of actors are working today. they're doing things. there's parts, there's projects. how worried are you about the future of cinema when there's the stats that ticket sales have gone down 40% in a decade? i've seen so many things come and go, that i don't know... if you're an actor — they recently had a strike. we've got ai coming too, which...who knows? but things evolve. we are a species that evolves. look at us now. i mean, things happen. people want to be entertained.

the times, too, what's going on, everything. so you're really... i'm always... i have...for instance, i've got a couple of things i'm doing now. i try to keep the roles to a minimum in terms of not large parts, which i enjoy doing, because i have to go through all the things i go through when i do a large role. you have to become a character and stuff. but i do have another large role coming up, which is frank lloyd wright, which is an incredible project to play this person, and the script is good. so i've been dealing with it and i'll take it on, and what will happen? you are someone who grew up going to the cinema, and it's clearjust how much that experience meant to you. ten, 15 years, are there still going to be cinemas to go to?

i hope so. i think that's what it's about. that's what scorsese is doing. that's what tarantino is doing. the people who have... francis coppola is doing it, because they've gotten... they understand it. they have control of it. they own it, in other words. that's how they communicate their art form — through film. are you worried, though, about cinema when it means so much to you? no... the idea of la without cinemas? i don't think that's going to happen. it can't happen. it was back in 2004 that pacino won, not an oscar, but an emmy award for playing the notorious lawyer roy cohn in the drama series angels in america. by taking on the role, he became one of the biggest hollywood names to embrace television — today commonplace, back then unusualfor an actor of his stature. but change and what the future may hold is something he has always been relaxed about. with actors, there's

so much talk about digital representation and how once you've gone, that can live on. yeah. how do you feel about your image starring in films in the future? i can't think about things like that. i mean, what would i know? who knows? maybe they get some image that works. when you're in this position of being famous, some...there�*s a third rail there that you've got to avoid. so, i found a way to do it, which is to take it with a grain of salt. are you thinking about legacy, as well? is that part of it? i haven't thought about legacy, ever — and i don't know why, because i keep thinking there's something fatal about that. ijust don't want to go near a legacy. a legacy is... cos things are changing all the time. you know, you work for a time. we feel about things the way we do. and then ten years later,

it's gone, and people are interested in other things. 0r... i don't even think about that. i don't even think about being old, actually. but i feel it. i don't think about it, but i feel it. do you? when i wake up in the morning and i sit at the bed, especially when i'm working, because i've been working a lot these days. buongiorno, sergio. turn on channel 7. abc. fbi. i'm watching your nebraska jim as we speak. i think once upon a time in hollywood is a great film, and the mere fact that i was in it gave me some sort of cachet. i don't know. and then next comes the irishman. bob de niro and marty scorsese came to me years before, talking about what they were going to do, and i was all for it. and then, finally, it's a script. i go out and i do that. i have a huge part. i get a nomination for

an oscar, putting me up against brad pitt, joe pesci, anthony hopkins and tom hanks. i had no problem that night accepting my losing status among those guys. next thing you know, i'm in the house of gucci, which is a hot film. great people, like adam driver, lady gaga, jared leto, and my dear friend jeremy irons is in it. it didn't get the reception that others got, but it made good at the box office. plus, it was directed by one of the all—time greats, ridley scott, who i really took to. someone so gifted and so much fun to work with. we were in hollywood last night. we went looking for your star on the walk of fame. poor guys! couldn't find it. you were disappointed. what is going on? well, i haven't looked lately, but i don't... ..i don't remember them ever putting a star. there are a lot of people who have, but there's also a lot of people who don't have a star. if hollywood's committee are watching this interview, would you be quite up for one now?

of course. there we go. yeah, sure. come on. al pacino wants his star on the hollywood walk of fame. in the book, chess comes up a lot. i used to play a lot of chess. who's the most famous person you've ever beaten at chess? i think it was... i think i might have beaten... dennis quaid is too good. jamie foxx is too good. oh, really?! i always tried... on any given sunday, we all used to play. butjim brown was the best. jim brown's a great... the nfl player? yeah, a football player who passed away. i really liked him. he really beat me all the time. but what he had trouble with... when he played chess with me and he said, "i don't know what you're going to do "cos you got that, you know, eclectic style of thinking. "you know, you don't think... "you don't do what's expected." that was a huge compliment, i thought, really. i said, "that's coming off. that's good." it's always interesting

when you meet someone like you, thinking, "right, whatam i going to learn "about al pacino from meeting him?" yeah. your phone cover. can you show this, please, and explain the story? because of all the things in the world that i thought al pacino would have on his phone cover, i was not expecting... ..shrek. al laughs who would be expecting shrek? who? whispers: that's mine. can you explain why you shrek it? my youngest daughter was... little younger a few years ago, and she decided... you know, she was big on phone cases for a while there. so, she said, "can i have your phone, dad? "i'vejust got to..." so i gave her my phone and she came back and she had this on it. so ijust laughed, you know? and she said, "it's shrek, dad!" i said, "shrek?" wow. i know shrek somehow. and then i said, "yes, the film, shrek. yes. "0k, babe, i'll hold on to it."

you know, you were saying you needed roles for the money. you should have done kids' cartoon voices. that's. .. i can't. that'd have been an easy one. i can't do it. i've tried. i mean, somebody says to me, "you gotta be mad now, put on a voice." i don't know how. and when you see the great ones, like robin williams, the way he did this, it was like a work of art. aladdin, oh, my god, ifreaked out, i thought, this is... ..this is a great performance, this aladdin guy. he was amazing in it. but at the same time, ijust, er... i have no feel for it. to do this, what we do, all of it, this thing that we've chosen to do with our lives, you have to have an appetite or a desire to do this. otherwise, it doesn't make sense. al pacino, it is clear you still have your appetite. that's great to hear. it's been a real pleasure.

my pleasure. it was great talking to you. you have good questions. and this you can't get over, i know. i know. someday, one day, i'll take it off. but i don't know how. music: por una cabeza by the tango project

live from london, this is bbc news. one of the worst starvation crises in modern times. a new report says famine in sudan has expanded to five areas and likely to spread further next year. as ukraine prepares to mark its third christmas since russia's invasion, we bring you a special report from the city of pokrovsk, the birthplace of a well—known carol. live pictures of bethlehem, where muted christmas

celebrations take place this year, as the war in the middle east rages on. and a record—smashing kiss of the sun, as nasa's solar probe makes history with the closest ever approach to the star. and ahead of her carol service at westminster abbey, which airs tonight, catherine also encouraged the world to turn to love, not fear.