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tv   It Takes a Village  BBC News  December 29, 2024 9:30am-10:01am GMT

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the cause is still being investigated, but officials believe a collision with a bird and poor weather may be to blame. the new president of georgia mikheil kavelashvili has been sworn in, against a background of protests against his governing georgian dream party. the former manchester city footballer is a hardline critic of the west and the four main opposition groups have rejected him and boycotted parliament. they insist that the elections held in october were rigged. let's get more now on this developing story from south korea. a plane has crashed on landing at an airport in the country, and at least 167 people have been killed. the boeing 737 belonging toje—ju airlines had 181 people on board, and officials say they expect most are dead. they say some passengers fell out of the fuselage during the crash. two survivors have been found.
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these are the pictures of the holiday plane skidding down the runway before hitting a wall and bursting into flames. the aircraft was enroute from bangkok heading for muan airport. the authorities say a birdstrike may have caused the landing gear to malfunction. the airline has issued a formal apology. my colleague catherine spoke to geoffrey thomas, editor of daily airline news. here's the full interview of him explaining what could have caused the crash. look, it's quite possible that and quite probable. now, looking at the vision that the aircraft actually had a bird strike prior to landing. now, there are warnings out at that airport for this time of the year for flocks of mallard birds, which grow up to a size of about two kilos. now it appears as though there has been a bird strike, and one of the engines, um, the right hand engine was impacted. now, this would have
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caused obviously a lot of pressure in the cockpit. um, there are indications that there was a circuit made of the airport and then an approach, but with all the, uh, checking and cross—checking going on relating to this engine failure, it could well be that the pilots simply forgot to put the landing gear down. now, that sounds extraordinary, because there are all sorts of warnings that go off in the cockpit. uh, if the if the undercarriage is not deployed. now, there is some suggestion there was a hydraulic failure. well, yes, that could be a problem. but with the 737, you can. and with most aircraft, you can manually put the the undercarriage down by cranking it down. whether the engine situation was such that they felt they didn't have time to do that, we don't know. but they they would have declared an emergency and therefore the fire fighting
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units should have been runway side, and they should have also coated the runway with foam as well for a gear up landing. so there's a lot of questions to be answered yet as to exactly what went on. but it does appear a bird strike was was was an initial factor. lack of undercarriage was the next issue. why that happened we just don't know at this stage. and how rare or how common are incidents like this? you say there would have been a whole process in place to make sure that this flight landed safely. look, indeed there are. i mean, korea is, you know, industry best practice. i mean, yes, they have had some issues in the past, but today the country and its airlines are considered industry best practice. the 737 800 has an excellent safety record. jeju airlines has an excellent safety record. good training.
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the airport was a fine day, a dry runway. everything about it was ticked. the box, a gear up landing. extremely unusual because of the fact that you can manually, manually crank the the undercarriage down. but if it had to be a gear up landing for whatever reason, then the firefighting services and they have good firefighting services, there should be runway side for the approach, and then they should have also laid foam out on the runway as well. so a lot of things about this tragedy don't make sense and beg, you know, a plausible explanation at this stage. we simply don't have it. and we're going to have to rely on the black boxes, which hopefully will be recovered from the tail very shortly before we really going to get some definitive answers. and it looks like an incredible loss of life there in south korea.
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you mentioned finding the black box, but what kind of investigation do you think will now be taking place there in south korea? yes. well, the two black boxes, which incidentally for viewers are orange, are located in the tail. the korean crash investigator will take charge of the investigation. boeing will be involved. jeju airlines will be involved. and the engine manufacturer cfm international, which is a joint venture between france and the united states. they will be involved as well. there they are, the major parties to the investigation. if, for instance, there was an undercarriage fault, was a big issue or a major issue, then the undercarriage manufacturer, um, would also be involved in the investigation under icao rules. that's the international civil aviation organisation. the korean authorities got have got 30 days to issue
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a preliminary report. obviously, if there's a safety issue identified early on in the investigation, they would notify the manufacturer and all airlines of the safety issue that was found. also, the air traffic control people will be involved in this as well, as part of the investigation. and, uh, and, geoffrey, of course, we understand a crash like this is rare, as you were talking about a little earlier, but how does an incident like this reverberate through the industry, but also in the region where you are? look, yes, it fortunately, these sorts of tragedies are rare. although 40% of fatalities in aviation today are the result of um, runway, uh, landing problems and runway overruns running into a brick wall, for instance, or running into a ditch at the end of a runway because the runway
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isn't it isn't the required length or the the overrun at the end of the runway isn't to international standards. so the landing accidents are the biggest cause of, um, fatalities today, notwithstanding terrorist attacks, unfortunately. um, but yes, a lot of questions are going to be asked, um, not only in the region, catherine, but also globally as to what has gone wrong here, because, you know, you've got an excellent aeroplane, you've got an excellent airline, you've got a fine day, you've got everything. everything ticks the boxes for a safe, safe, uneventful flight. it ends up being an absolute tragedy, which appears to involve a bird strike. it appears to involve a hydraulic failure, and a lack of undercarriage appears to involve a lack of services to assist runway side and coat the runway. there's been a lot of failures in what should have been
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a perfect flight, so while it should have ticked authorities have confirmed 176 people on board that plane have died so 181 people were on board that flight when it came down and skidded across the runway and hit a wall and then burst into flames. joining us now on the line is alastair rosenschein, a former british airways pilot, now an aviation consultant. what is your first impression of hearing about how they couldn't seem to get the landing gear down? what do you think is cause this?— think is cause this? good morning- _ think is cause this? good morning. well, - think is cause this? good morning. well, there's . think is cause this? good morning. well, there's a| think is cause this? good - morning. well, there's a number of reasons why you can't get the undercarriage to deploy. primarily it would be a loss of hydraulic pressure. it is
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possible to crank the gear down, but at this stage we are into an area of speculation. what i can say is that the video i have seen shows the aircraft doing wheels up landing on the runway and then the aircraft skids to the right of the runway and into some structure, a wall, and then of course the aircraft disintegrates into a ball of fire. it's near impossible to control an aircraft on the landing run as the speed reduces, with the gear up so that would explain why the aircraft skidded off to one side. the reports of a bird strike could result in a worst—case scenario in the loss of hydraulics as well if both engines are severely damaged. when the birds have had to hit the engines, is that what you are saying?—
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the engines, is that what you are saying? yes, a bird strike from any _ are saying? yes, a bird strike from any other— are saying? yes, a bird strike from any other part _ are saying? yes, a bird strike from any other part of - are saying? yes, a bird strike from any other part of the - from any other part of the aircraft would be minor but hitting the engines could be the issue. you will remember the issue. you will remember the flight into the river in new york where the aircraft, an airbus aircraft, was able to glide down and land on the river and they managed to survive and everybody survive that one but what happened prior to the video of this aircraft landing we don't fully know yet. they have already recovered either the flight deck data recorder or the cockpit voice recorder, two black boxes, and there are reports they have recovered those, so it is fairly certain they will be able to get to the bottom of this and find out what happened and hopefully try to prevent it from happening again, but bird strikes, if it was bird strike, they are
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unpredictable and can happen pretty much anywhere in the world. figs pretty much anywhere in the world. �* , . pretty much anywhere in the world. , ., ., ., world. as a pilot, what are you able to do _ world. as a pilot, what are you able to do if— world. as a pilot, what are you able to do if you _ world. as a pilot, what are you able to do if you don't - world. as a pilot, what are you able to do if you don't have - able to do if you don't have any landing gear in terms of any landing gear in terms of any kind of control of the aircraft?— any kind of control of the aircraft? ~ , ., ., aircraft? well, first of all, the aircraft _ aircraft? well, first of all, the aircraft will _ aircraft? well, first of all, the aircraft will fly - aircraft? well, first of all, i the aircraft will fly normally if the gears doesn't come down. the issue will be the actual touchdown on the runway so what you want to do is have an airfield with as long runway as possible, land towards the beginning of the runway and there is talk that in the past, it was suggested foam was laid out on the runway to prevent a fire and aid the aircraft in its landing, however nowadays, many airports don't do that. why is that? it many airports don't do that. why is that?— why is that? it was found it was fairly —
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why is that? it was found it was fairly ineffective, - why is that? it was found it was fairly ineffective, so i was fairly ineffective, so that's why they don't do it any more. ,, ., y that's why they don't do it any more. ,, ., , ., that's why they don't do it any more. , ., ., ., more. right. sorry, go ahead. the other— more. right. sorry, go ahead. the other thing _ more. right. sorry, go ahead. the other thing is _ more. right. sorry, go ahead. the other thing is there's - more. right. sorry, go ahead. the other thing is there's a . the other thing is there's a time frame here. if the pilots have lost power on the engines due to bird strike there will be no time at all to come down and land pretty much immediately. the other thing is you don't want any rescue vehicles anywhere near the runway during this landing because the aircraft will be difficult to control and will have a strong likelihood it will depart the runway and go off to the right or the left. and could crash into them. presumably it will take time to manually lower the wheels? well, yes, it does. i used to fly 77 is many years ago and underneath the cabin you could have a look to see whether or not the gear was down or locked because the only other indication we had on the flight deck was lights or display on a
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small television screen, and so if you have time you can crank it down. you also have to do note that the undercarriage has come down so sometimes you can have a failure which prevents the pilots from knowing the undercarriage is down. i'm not suggesting that happened in this case. , ., ,., suggesting that happened in this case. , ., ., this case. these are some of the things — this case. these are some of the things which _ this case. these are some of the things which do - this case. these are some of the things which do occur. i this case. these are some of i the things which do occur. the officials said the plane had been trying to land but there was a warning of a bird strike and offered a pilot the opportunity to land somewhere as another pilot called a mayday and he was given permission for the plane to land from an opposite direction. it sounds like there was some sort of notice, two minutes isn't very long, is it?
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that's no time at all. multiple bird strikes, in other words properly taking up both engines, therefore, they lost power, they are coming down and had no choice but to land and it will strongly suggest power failure because otherwise you have the ability to continue flying to another airfield. it sounds pretty catastrophic during the flying phase of the flight in addition to the disaster during the landing. watching the video it looks like they've made a successful touchdown and they are travelling down the runway and it looks like the pilots have done a very good job up to that point and then, as the aircraft slows, they will no longer have control of the aircraft and so they really are in the lap of they really are in the lap of the gods that point.- they really are in the lap of the gods that point. yes, and it looks like _ the gods that point. yes, and it looks like it — the gods that point. yes, and it looks like it crashed - the gods that point. yes, and it looks like it crashed into i the gods that point. yes, and it looks like it crashed into a l it looks like it crashed into a wall, sojust ran it looks like it crashed into a wall, so just ran out of space on that particular runway. is
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there anything in terms of prevention that your first impression, it's so hard to say when we don't know the cause, but is there anything in terms of what the airport itself could have done? we talked about the foam which wasn't found to be effective in which is why they don't do it, but is there a standard procedure that could be in place to help this sort of situation at airports? the only thing on airport can do is to make sure the runway is available and clear and they get other aircraft away from the runway and any vehicles removed and then clear the air space so they have priority landing. air traffic controllers know how to do this and they react very quickly. i don't think the airport in this instance has done anything more they can do regarding this. as for the foam issue, from start to minutes are simply not long enough, take some time to do that, to planet, and as i said,
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it's not always done —— to plan it. i rememberwhen it's not always done —— to plan it. i remember when i was working for british airways we were instructed that we were not to request foam because it's not going to achieve much but in the case of a dire emergency, a mayday call, then it sounds to me like they had no option but to land this aircraft immediately. so it does look very much like a power loss as well as the undercarriage not coming down. thank you so much for talking to us. and giving us your insight. it's been really helpful. thank you. a former british airways pilot now an aviation consultant. it's definitely shocking news for south korea and it happened just after 9am on sunday
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morning and i think most south koreans didn't believe it actually happened. je—ju is one of the leading airlines, has a great safety record and the airline many people use on a daily basis so people think, they didn't believe when they first saw the news, now they see this number is really shocking. there were people, families waiting for family numbers to come back from their trip and they are now rushing into a temporary facility at the airport. to face the tragedy they did not expect. ohm tragedy they did not expect. an incredible tragedy there. what are we hearing from authorities as to how this could have happened?— as to how this could have happened? as to how this could have ha ened? ., ., happened? right now, the two main causes — happened? right now, the two main causes are _ happened? right now, the two main causes are known - happened? right now, the two main causes are known to - happened? right now, the two main causes are known to be l happened? right now, the two l main causes are known to be the landing issue and the bird strike, however, the investigation is still ongoing so we will have to wait until
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the investigation is done to determine the exact cause. the acting president has declared a special disaster zone and deployed more than 1500 police and firefighters including the police forensic team to find out the exact cause of this incident. out the exact cause of this incident-— out the exact cause of this incident. ~ , ., , incident. we understand this returning — incident. we understand this returning people _ incident. we understand this returning people from - incident. we understand this i returning people from bangkok likely mostly south koreans who have gone over to thailand for a holiday?— a holiday? that's right, so it is located — a holiday? that's right, so it is located in _ a holiday? that's right, so it is located in the _ a holiday? that's right, so it is located in the south-west| is located in the south—west area of south korea and this plane had 181 passengers including six crew members and accept for two thai nationals everybody was south korean. as it's a low cost airline, travel is across different countries,
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of asia, so this airport was one of the airport is that people used to travel to the neighbouring countries in asia. it's hard to underestimate just what a difficult time south korea has been going through at the moment. we have seen those political tensions, the moment. we have seen those politicaltensions, impeachment is of the countries leaders, so how are south koreans framing all of this and how could this impact the national psyche? it's definitely difficult for south koreans to digest all these sad news happening at the same time. a few weeks ago there was impeachment for the president and yesterday there was impeachment for the acting president. and people were coming out on the streets protesting for the impeachment and everyone was very disturbed
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by the unsettling political news. on top of that, with this tragic incident which happened on sunday morning, south koreans are feeling very depressed but, at the same time, i think south korea when there is a national crisis they gather and support those in need so many volunteers have formed a group so instead of going on the streets they are heading to the airport to help victims and support those in need. asi as i was saying, the figure that we now have from the authorities in south korea is 176 people have died in that plane crash. there were two survivors who were pulled from the debris and taken to hospital, two members of the crew. has more on the latest.
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i'm lot is mysterious about the little that we do know. the korean authorities have said there was a bird strike, they'd warned of one and the plane gave a mayday warning and there were some video published which suggests a bird might have struck one engine. you can see a flame coming out of the engine. normally, this kind of thing, if one engine goes, it's pretty standard procedure for pilots to go around on land normally. in this case, the plane did go around and attempt another landing from a different approach to the runway and, for reasons that we are not clear on, and it's not clear what kind of communications they were common with air traffic control at this stage, the plane landed at very high speed with its undercarriage retracted. now it's possible there's been some suggestion they might have been some catastrophic hydraulic failure caused by that bird strike but the undercarriage is very strong, not some back—up
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systems to allow cabin crew pilots to put the undercarriage down even if there are failures so the investigation will have to assess why the landing happened with the landing gear retracted, at such speed. and why the plane was not able to come to a halt. it was going at great speed when it shot off the end of the 2800 metre runway and impacted against the wall and burst into flames. all of those will be the subject for the investigations, the korean investigators, also the airline, the manufacturer boeing and the engine manufacturers involved in this investigation. they do have a fight record, they've not yet got the voice recorder, but i expect they probably will retrieve that in time for the wreckage. that should give them the clue is needed. this is still a very tragic and unexpected crash a lot of questions hang over exactly what caused it to go so wrong
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right at the end.— right at the end. how rare are these crashes _ right at the end. how rare are these crashes in _ right at the end. how rare are these crashes in south - right at the end. how rare are| these crashes in south korea? and also in the wider region? south korea has a pretty good day safety record. it didn't 20 or 30 years ago. lots of questions but in recent years it's been very good indeed. it is a very high quality safety structure and regime. this is the worst accident, but not the worst involving a korean airliner. very famously when the shutdown by the soviet union back in 1983, i believe that's the worst accident involving a korean airline. although involving a korean airline. althouthe—ju is a low—cost new airline only operating for 20 years, its safety record had been almost unblemished, one incident way back in 2007 where there were some injuries. other low—cost carriers in indonesia
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have had significant questions raised about their safety culture, about the ability to hire experienced pilots when the airline are grown so fast and not of low—cost carriers are growing very quickly this region but up to now, i haven't heard any questions overje—ju airlines itself, so there is nothing to suggest at this stage there was any failure at an official level or in the culture of the airline which led to this but of course the investigation hopefully will reveal what the factors were that caused this terrible accident and what lessons can be learned from it. that jonathan had their our southeast asia correspondence. we can show you the live scene at the airport, it's dark there now, floodlights have been lighting up the scene. the police forensics are on site going through the debris. those black box recorders have been recovered so they will be trying to work out what caused
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this crash. we heard from a south korean transport official earlier talking about what happened is a plane approached the airport. the plane had been trying to land but then air traffic control gave a bird strike warning so that forced the plane to hold off. you can see they are skidding at high pace towards a wall where it crashed and burst into flames. it was after this morning was given a pilot called a mayday and air traffic gave permission for it to land from an opposite direction. that's when it landed and skidded as you can see. plenty more on this throughout the day here on bbc news. stay with us. hello there. there's been some more mist and fog around this morning, most of it across central southern england. east anglia, the midlands, parts of south wales too. but the good news is it's not as extensive as it was yesterday, and it should lift and clear much more readily as the westerly wind picks up.
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so sunny spells developing. for most of us. it's dry, but it's windy. it's really quite wet across parts of northwest scotland, with rainjust feeding in from the atlantic here. some of it pushing further eastwards into parts of aberdeenshire. as we head through the afternoon further south for northern ireland, central southern scotland and down into northern england, it's dry. here's that brightness across england and wales developing as the westerly wind picks up. and of course it's a lot milder here than it was yesterday underneath all of that mist and fog. now overnight tonight, the rain for northwest scotland is going to push further eastwards again. it will be heavy and persistent, turning to snow over the hills further south. it is largely dry mixture of cloud and some clearer spells and generally a mild start to the day tomorrow. now the rain could cause some issues in scotland. on monday and tuesday the rainfall totals will really start to rack up. it will be relentless and there will be added snow as well. and then as the snow melts, it will just add to those rainfall totals. there could be some localised flooding and of course some travel disruption.
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bearing in mind that tuesday is new year's eve, lots of people out and about, of course, but on monday then there'll still be some wintry over the hills of the far north. all of this set to sink further southwards across central southern areas of scotland, into the central belt and across northern ireland and northern england. windy conditions, particularly over the pennines. mixture of brighter spells and some cloud further south, but here it should stay dry for many parts of england and wales. but then new year's eve brings a deep area of low pressure swinging in from the west, so it's going to be very unsettled. it will be very blustery, with a brisk westerly to south—westerly wind, rain sinking further southwards across many parts of england and wales, continuing across northern and western scotland, again wintry over the hills. it's still mild on tuesday, but as we head through new year's day that is about to change. we'll start to see colder air sink down from the north with northerly winds. there will be some brightness around, but the risk of some wintry showers over the hills. so for the end of the first
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week of january, it's looking a lot colder by.
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live from london. this is bbc news. a plane carrying 181 passengers has crashed at an airport in south korea — officials say they expect nearly everyone on board has died. the ceo ofjeju airlines has apologised. translation: i want to give my sincere apology|
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and condolences to those who've lost their lives in the accident and their families. this is the scene right now at muan airport — the emergency services are sifting through the wreckage of the plane. rescuers have found two survivors. the new president of georgia — mikheil kavelashvili — has been sworn in, against a background of protests against his governing georgian dream party. hello. we start with developing news from south korea. a plane has crashed on landing at an airport in the country, and at least 167 people have been killed. the boeing 737 belonging tojeju airlines had 181 people on board, and officials say they expect most are dead.
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they say some passengers fell out of the fuselage

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