by highs and lows. marked by highs and lows. perhaps the greatest success jimmy carter had was negotiating the camp david accords, the peace agreement between egypt and israel during his presidency. and that foreign policy success was perhaps his greatest triumph, but his presidency was also marked by economic crisis, a spike in oil prices at what we would today perhaps call a cost—of—living crisis and that really affected his ratings with the public. he was seen to be adrift at the wheel and there was a sort of sense of malaise around his presidency. and also there was the iranian hostage crisis in iran, where americans were held hostage, and a botched rescue attempt which left eight americans dead, which really damage his reputation in the public eye and he lost in 1982 the republican, ronald reagan, in quite a significant defeat. but in some ways, jimmy carter kinda rehabilitated his reputation, if you like, or he was the model for what a post—presidency could be. he set up the carter centre and from there went on to work on peace around world and democracy and election monitoring around the world and won a nobel peace prize for his efforts. he has, in some ways, been a model for others, if you think of the likes of the clinton foundation, for example, of what a post—presidency could be and what you could do, having left

office. in some ways, jimmy carter's legacy is both his presidency, but also what he did is post—presidency time as well. there will be a state funeral for him but how is he regarded by the president that followed him? he by the president that followed him? ., , by the president that followed him? . , . , him? he was an interesting character. _ him? he was an interesting character, he _ him? he was an interesting character, he was - him? he was an interesting character, he was a - him? he was an interesting . character, he was a committed christian and was seen as somewhat pious so he had a difficult relationship with some of his democrat compatriots who followed him in office. bill clinton in particular. but what he will be remembered for most now... post—presidency, as i said he will be remembered as a model for post—presidency... for a for post—presidency. .. for a lot for post—presidency... for a lot of people he was a model of what to do post—presidency as

well as what could be achieved in office. if you look at the camp david accords, he undoubtedly, has had success in his... he has a legacy that he will be remembered for, that goes beyond his pregnant presidency —— beyond his presidency. presidency -- beyond his presidency-— presidency -- beyond his presidency. thank you very much, presidency. thank you very much. we _ presidency. thank you very much, we will _ presidency. thank you very much, we will be _ presidency. thank you very much, we will be back- presidency. thank you very much, we will be back to i presidency. thank you very - much, we will be back to speak to you shortly. let me just bring in another guest. professor, hello and welcome to the programme. you, like us just hearing this news? what are your thoughts? i just hearing this news? what are your thoughts?— are your thoughts? i have studied the _ are your thoughts? i have studied the carter- are your thoughts? i have . studied the carter presidency and have had another opportunity to interview him on a number— opportunity to interview him on a number of occasions. i think

he will— a number of occasions. i think he will he _ a number of occasions. i think he will be better remembered than _ he will be better remembered than the — he will be better remembered than the public reaction at the end of— than the public reaction at the end of his _ than the public reaction at the end of his first four years. he was _ end of his first four years. he was regarded by some as weak and indecisive and ineffective but when you look back on the accomplishments, domestic and also many— accomplishments, domestic and also many in the foreign policy area, — also many in the foreign policy area, they— also many in the foreign policy area, they have held up over time — area, they have held up over time and _ area, they have held up over time. and i think in the long run, _ time. and i think in the long run. his— time. and i think in the long run, his reputation as an effective _ run, his reputation as an effective president will rise. when — effective president will rise. when you said you've when you said youwe _ when you said you've when you said you've interviewed him had did he _ said you've interviewed him had did he defend his time in office? _ did he defend his time in office? he was extremely interested in having a factual story— interested in having a factual story of— interested in having a factual story of his term told. he

wasn't _ story of his term told. he wasn't someone who exaggerated his successes, but he hoped that— his successes, but he hoped that they— his successes, but he hoped that they would be recognised. certainly— that they would be recognised. certainly the camp david accords— certainly the camp david accords have held up over time, partly— accords have held up over time, partly because... the issue is still— partly because... the issue is still unresolved and the agreement between egypt and israel— agreement between egypt and israel remains one of the most important _ israel remains one of the most important developments in the middle — important developments in the middle east. he deserves a lot of credit— middle east. he deserves a lot of credit for that. his detractors didn't think he would _ detractors didn't think he would be able to succeed in that— would be able to succeed in that negotiation —— his advisers _ that negotiation —— his advisers didn't think he would be able — advisers didn't think he would be able to succeed in that. but he did — be able to succeed in that. but he did. in— be able to succeed in that. but he did. , ., , he did. in terms of his accomplishments - he did. in terms of his| accomplishments what he did. in terms of his - accomplishments what was he

most proud of? he accomplishments what was he most proud of?— most proud of? he was very roud most proud of? he was very proud of _ most proud of? he was very proud of the _ most proud of? he was very proud of the alaska - most proud of? he was very proud of the alaska land - most proud of? he was very| proud of the alaska land bill, a major— proud of the alaska land bill, a major piece of legislation that— a major piece of legislation that he _ a major piece of legislation that he tasked after he lost the 1980 election, that took large — the 1980 election, that took large portions of the state of a lack— large portions of the state of a lack alaska aside as large and — a lack alaska aside as large and protected areas. it was the largest— and protected areas. it was the largest increase in the acreage of the — largest increase in the acreage of the american park system in the modern era, and he both because _ the modern era, and he both because of his interest in recreation and is interested in the environment, was very pleased _ the environment, was very pleased that he was able to get that done. he also fought and i think— that done. he also fought and i think correctly —— thought that his ideas— think correctly —— thought that his ideas about energy were ahead — his ideas about energy were ahead of— his ideas about energy were ahead of theirtime. his ideas about energy were ahead of their time. they have come — ahead of their time. they have come to— ahead of their time. they have come to look far more important than _ come to look far more important than they— come to look far more important than they were seen by the

american public at the time. he is often american public at the time. he: is often described as a very misunderstood president, why is that? just explain that to us. perhaps being in america, you will understand that, but for many of us away from the us, and also the younger generation these days, why was he misunderstood? i these days, why was he misunderstood?- these days, why was he misunderstood? ~ . , misunderstood? i think he was misunderstood _ misunderstood? i think he was misunderstood in _ misunderstood? i think he was misunderstood in part - misunderstood? i think he was misunderstood in part because he was — misunderstood in part because he was not a typical president. he was— he was not a typical president. he was an _ he was not a typical president. he was an extremely independent individual. he ran for governor of georgia _ individual. he ran for governor of georgia when he was thought to have — of georgia when he was thought to have no — of georgia when he was thought to have no chance but succeeded later— to have no chance but succeeded later and — to have no chance but succeeded later and did it by his own efforts— later and did it by his own efforts not with the help of power _ efforts not with the help of power brokers in the democratic party— power brokers in the democratic party in — power brokers in the democratic party in georgia. when he ran for the — party in georgia. when he ran for the democratic party he was thought— for the democratic party he was thought to be a joke, the

atlanta _ thought to be a joke, the atlanta constitution did a headline, jimmy is running for president— headline, jimmy is running for president of what... it was a real— president of what... it was a real long _ president of what... it was a real long shot campaign, and he carried _ real long shot campaign, and he carried it — real long shot campaign, and he carried it off. he, in many ways, _ carried it off. he, in many ways, invented the modern presidential campaign with the huge _ presidential campaign with the huge amount of effort he put into the _ huge amount of effort he put into the iowa caucuses that before _ into the iowa caucuses that before that had been ignored. the success he then had in new hampshire and the launch of the two early— hampshire and the launch of the two early victories to an eventual nomination. he may be the only— eventual nomination. he may be the only dark horse candidate who _ the only dark horse candidate who came out of nowhere who succeeded in winning both the nomination and the presidency. so part— nomination and the presidency. so part of— nomination and the presidency. so part of the reason that he is misunderstood is that the american public didn't know much —

american public didn't know much about him. when he started running _ much about him. when he started running in — much about him. when he started running in 1976. he much about him. when he started running in 1976.— running in 1976. he was a southern _ running in 1976. he was a southern man. _ running in 1976. he was a southern man. i'm - running in 1976. he was a southern man. i'mjust i southern man. i'm just wondering how he was a progressive southern gentleman. how was he received when he expressed his thoughts about the time for racial dissemination being over? how was that received in 1971 that was that received in 1971 that was after he was elected turning point. he got on the cow after— turning point. he got on the covr after he was elected governor of georgia. it was after he was elected governor of georgia. it was after he was elected governor of georgia. it was a was after he was elected governor of georgia. it was a surprising — governor of georgia. it was a surprising — governor of georgia. it was a surprising comment - surprising comment - governor of georgia. it was a surprising comment coming l governor of georgia. it was a - surprising comment coming from governor of georgia. it was a surprising comment coming l governor of georgia. it was a - surprising comment coming from him because he hadn't run for him because he hadn't run for the governorship on a the governorship on a progressive agenda. he had run progressive agenda. he had run is a nran— is a nran— progressive agenda. he had run is a man of— progressive agenda. he had run is a man of the people. many progressive agenda. he had run is a man of— progressive agenda. he had run is a man of the people. many cover of— people — is a man of the people. many people were shocked by that people — is a man of the people. many people were shocked by that statement. it also was a statement. it also was a turning _ statement. it also was a turning _ statement. it also was a turning point. he got on the turning point. he got on the

cover— turning point. he got on the cover— turning point. he got on the cover of— turning point. he got on the cover of time magazine. a number— cover of time magazine. a numberof— cover of time magazine. a number of other governors in the early— number of other governors in the early 70s tried to move past — the early 70s tried to move past the _ the early 70s tried to move past the era of segregation which — past the era of segregation which had been resisted since the supreme court decisions. so on that— the supreme court decisions. so on that issue, at that time, he was _ on that issue, at that time, he was progressive. his earlier career— was progressive. his earlier career in _

of race and he came out of it with— of race and he came out of it with more _ of race and he came out of it with more of his mothers sense ofiustice — with more of his mothers sense ofjustice and less of his father's— ofjustice and less of his father's rigorous caution. race is really— father's rigorous caution. race is really important for understanding whojimmy carter understanding who jimmy carter was _ understanding whojimmy carter was. because he saw the transformation of the south, he didn't— transformation of the south, he didn't lead it, because he saw it, didn't lead it, because he saw it. he — didn't lead it, because he saw it, he firmly believed that talking _ it, he firmly believed that talking about human rights would _ talking about human rights would be about talking about human — would be about talking about human rights... civil rights in the _ human rights... civil rights in the south _ human rights... civil rights in the south it can make a huge difference. the south it can make a huge difference-— difference. he's often described _ difference. he's often described as - difference. he's often described as the - difference. he's often - described as the president who did the right thing and ignore politics. why did he enter into politics. why did he enter into politics in first place, he was a peanut farmer who worked on a nuclear submarine, described the journey into politics... nuclear submarine, described thejourney into politics... it the journey into politics... it hard to describe. i think your

earlier— hard to describe. i think your earlier statement is right on target _ earlier statement is right on target. we say is a kind of cliche. _ target. we say is a kind of cliche, that we want our presidents to do the right thing. _ presidents to do the right thing, not necessarily the thing _ thing, not necessarily the thing that is popular at the moment. most of them don't do that _ moment. most of them don't do that most— moment. most of them don't do that. most of them pay attention to public opinion, most — attention to public opinion, most of— attention to public opinion, most of them want to be re—elected and given hard choices. _ re—elected and given hard choices, should i do what the public— choices, should i do what the public wants, should i do what is right. — public wants, should i do what is right, typically side with the public. that was notjimmy carter~ — the public. that was notjimmy carter. and you're right about that — carter. and you're right about that. that's what makes him different— that. that's what makes him different than any other presidents and many other politicians. where did his ambition come from, that is an excellent — ambition come from, that is an excellent question. i've asked it of— excellent question. i've asked it of many— excellent question. i've asked it of many people who were associated with him and many of people _ associated with him and many of people associated with other presidents. and i guess the best— presidents. and i guess the best answer that i've ever heard _ best answer that i've ever heard is— best answer that i've ever heard is people who want to be president — heard is people who want to be president of the united states aren't— president of the united states aren't like you and me, they have — aren't like you and me, they have a — aren't like you and me, they have a kind of confidence and a

kind _ have a kind of confidence and a kind of— have a kind of confidence and a kind of ambition that is hard for most _ kind of ambition that is hard for most people to understand. thank— for most people to understand. thank you — for most people to understand. thank you so much for your time, from the university of virginia professor robert strong, thank you. joining us on the line now is the professor of american studies at the university of birmingham here in the