and new york becomes the first us city to introduce a congestion charge, with drivers paying $9 to enter downtown manhattan. now on bbc news, talking business. hello, everybody. welcome to talking business weekly with me, mark lobel. let's take a look at what's on the show. how much is the boss worth? with a string of big names taking on new ceos, why do they get pay packets worth tens of millions of dollars? starbucks, nike and boeing have all made a change at the top. but can one individual really drive all the changes these huge global corporations need to thrive?

i'm going to be discussing all this with these two. this top executive coach, who works with the likes of google, etsy and citibank, tells me what it takes for a ceo to succeed as the leader of a multinational corporation. and this leading expert on ceo pay tells me how the us is leading the world and why too much pay at the top can be damaging for both companies and societies. plus, we'll speak to serial entrepreneur marcia kilgore, the woman behind beauty pie and fitflop, about the responsibility of running a company and what drives her to keep going, even though she's already made her millions. wherever you'rejoining me from, welcome to the show. this week, we're asking, how important is the boss to the success of a company? and just how much is a good one really worth — $5 million, $100 million or $56 billion? the likes of boeing, disney,

nike and starbucks have made some pretty high—profile and expensive changes recently, but companies this big have billions of dollars of sales each year, and the boss isjust one person out of tens of thousands that are often spread right around the world, so what difference can one person really make? struggling global coffee giant starbucks has high hopes for its new boss. brian niccol was poached from the us restaurant chain chipotle with a four—year pay package worth more than $110 million and the use of a private jet so he can commute long distances as he tries to turn the company around. and nike is replacing ceo john donahoe after a series of missteps that have cut its market share. nonetheless, over nearly five years in charge, he's earned nearly $104 million, despite the company losing $40 billion worth of value. another company to lose billions in value is plane—maker, boeing.

its recently departed boss, dave calhoun, lost his job after struggling to deal effectively with a series of safety incidents, including two fatal accidents. despite that, he got a pay package worth more than $30 million as he was leaving. this graph marks the change in ceos, and as you can see, that can sometimes lead to a pretty big swing in a company's value, as investors express their confidence — or otherwise — in the individual leading a company. for those individuals running an s&p 500 company in the us, the median pay package has been rising steadily, hitting a record high of $16.3 million last year. shares often make up a big part of the typical award. the top earners were way above that. hock tan, who runs chip—maker broadcom, got $162 million. nikesh arora got $151 million at cybersecurity firm palo alto networks.

and investment giant blackstone paid stephen schwarzman $120 million. since 2017, us companies have been required to disclose the gap between ceos and the rest, and it now shows the median ceo is getting paid 196 times as much as the median worker. disney's ceo, bob iger, is in his second stint in thejob. towards the end of the first run, he was asked by my colleague amol rajan what it does for american capitalism when there's a big differential between the guy at the top and the guy at the bottom. i am proud of their compensation. i'm proud of the benefits that we've bestowed upon them. i'm proud of the opportunities we've created for them, because there's been huge upward mobility in our company by the very people that started at the bottom — i'm one of them — and enabled themselves to not only work their way up, but to work their way up and earn more. however much an employee earns, elon musk is hoping

to outstrip them all. the founder of the electric carmaker tesla is going through the courts to get the $56 billion package shareholders awarded him. if it comes off, it would be the biggest pay package in us history. as the boss, he's had to make difficult decisions, like at x, where he cut lots ofjobs quite abruptly when he took over. he explained the responsibility to my colleaguejames clayton. i wouldn't say "uncaring". you know, the issue is, like, the company's either going to go bankrupt... ..if we do not cut costs immediately. this is not a caring/uncaring situation. it's like, "if the whole ship sinks, then nobody�*s "got a job." so what does it take for the ceo to make sure they're doing theirjob properly? what are the skills they need and that are worth so much money? i've been speaking to one top executive coach who works with the likes of microsoft, avon and standard chartered bank.

alisa cohn, welcome to the programme. i just want to begin with this, because one of the most recent eye—watering pay packets that we've noticed — totalling more than $110 million, plus the use of a jet to commute — has been for the new boss of starbucks. so how does a company decide what a boss — a single individual — is actually worth? mostly, it's the board who decides, based on market comps, based on certainly bringing external consultants in, and also getting a little bit of a sense of what this new person could do, you know, for the company. so in the case of brian niccol being brought into starbucks, i think it's pretty obvious that there's a big hope for him and his ability to turn that company around, which is certainly needed right now. if we stick with starbucks�*s brian niccoljust for a moment, he's been brought in to try and turn around a company which employs nearly 400,000 people around the world. and he has a host of problems, including products, stores and pricing.

so how does a single individual go about tackling a list of problems like that? a single individual does it because he's the ceo, and what he's able to do, what the ceo is able to do is to certainly set a new strategy. so that may sound kind of like pie—in—the—sky, but i think it's really important for the ceo to really assess what's going on and to set up a specific game plan to make that turnaround. the second thing the ceo can do is set the culture — so, for example, in the case of brian nicoll, him making sure that people are coming back to the office to work together, not in a draconian way, necessarily, but understanding that there is a need to bring people back into the office. i don't agree or disagree with that, but setting the culture and setting the expectations is one example of what he's able to do to turn a large company around with, as you said, 400,000 employees.

alisa, how important is it to the success of a ceo that they understand the culture of a company? so, for example, are in—house promotions a better bet for the ceo position, as recent events at nestle and nike indicate? it's such an interesting question — because so often, boards want change, so they want to bring in someone from the outside. and when that person doesn't understand the culture, doesn't understand how to work inside of the company, that is in some ways a huge impediment. at the same time, you probably would think somebody who's been internal, for example, at nike and even at disney, they've been internal for a while, and they maybe understand the culture too well and are, in some ways, not the agents of change. so i think as a board, when you're thinking about who the new ceo needs to be, you need to balance the need to do something inside of the culture, to sort of find somebody who can do a good job in working inside of

the culture, but also be able to bring the change. i honestly think that the new nike ceo is probably the best exemplar of that, in the sense that he obviously was there for 32 years, and then also he had time away, so he brings the sort of external/internal view that would be very useful — hopefully will be very useful — for nike right now. you coach executives at some of the biggest names, including google, etsy

and johnson &johnson. so what are the most important characteristics to be a successful ceo? and can they be taught? can anyone take on being a ceo at one of these major companies? the most important quality that you need to be the ceo is knowing that you will be able to be the ceo. there is a sense of confidence and, you know, healthy ego that you need to bring to the table. the second thing you need to bring to the table is an ability to adapt.

so you've got to be able to assess the situation, make some important decisions and then adapt them as you go. can that be learned? i think it's an interesting question. i always think about inside and then also outside. you need to develop your own sort of internal state to know that you can handle the pressure, the difficulty, the spotlight, and then you also need to develop the external skills around decisiveness and around adaptability, also around strategic skills, to be able to do a good job in that role. given all the executives you've worked with, what would you say motivates them? is it as simple as money for them? or is there something more innate?

most ceos that i coach are motivated by knowing they can make a difference, knowing that they can, you know, turn a company around or grow a company even more. also they're touching, you know, hundreds of thousands of people's lives — and that matters a lot to them. and the ceos that i coach really get excited about the ability to have an impact in the world. and then, of course, there are trappings that come along with that, but they're really focused on stewardship. alisa cohn, thank you very much forjoining us. thank you very much for having me. as i was telling you, there is normally a huge gap between what the ceo of a big corporation gets paid and what the average worker gets. so what impact does that gap have on companies and societies? i've been catching up with a top expert on ceo pay from the washington—based progressive think tank the institute for policy studies. sarah anderson, welcome

to the programme. if we look at the s&p 500, 19 companies paid their bosses more than $50 million last year. and, yes, a lot of that was in shares, but how on earth do these companies come to those numbers? what makes one individual worth so much? this is based on the foolish notion that the person in the corner office is somehow almost single—handedly responsible for corporate value and that the people on the front—lines in these companies, who might have their actual hands on the product and delivering the service, are worth only a fraction of that. and it's a problem that we've seen get worse and worse in the united states, and i've been sad to see that those ceo pay levels have been creeping up in other parts of the world, as well, as the leaders of many global companies point to their american counterparts and say, "hey, why am i not making anything like what that guy's "making over there? "

and so it is really becoming a worldwide problem. sarah, you've been researching ceo pay for more than 30 years. what are the defining trends and changes you've noticed over that time? well, i didn't start quite back this far, but in the 19605, the gap between a large company ceo in the united states and a typical worker was around 25 toi. in the 19805, it had crept up about 40 to 1, but then it really started exploding in the '905. and now it's not uncommon for them to be 300 to 1, sometimes even thousands of times to one at low—wage companies. and so that has been a disturbing trend, because all of the research has shown that when you have those extreme gaps between ceo and worker pay, you tend to have lower morale and lower productivity and higher turnover rates. and so it's bad for business. it's not sustainable over the long term. what are the broader impacts for an economy when you have the figureheads

of companies such as tesla boss elon musk earning so much — i mean, he's still going through the courts to try and get his $56 billion pay package — versus the lower pay of key workers such as nurses and teachers? i think runaway ceo pay is bad for our economy, bad for democracy and bad for business. too much money is being siphoned and extracted from workers who are doing tough jobs at lower levels of the pay scale and funnelled up to the top, to the point where we have so much money concentrated in so few hands that it is a threat to our democracy. it's a threat to pushing for policies, like we have not had a raise in the minimum wage in the united states for over a decade.

big, powerful corporate interests have blocked that kind ofjust small, modest steps of progress to having a more equitably shared economy. and it can contribute to people shirking their responsibilities cos they feel like, "why should i try that hard "when i'm getting such a small reward for the labour "that i'm putting into this?" a recent bentley university gallup survey found that 82% of americans think it's important to avoid a major pay gap between the ceo and the average worker. and a think tank recently suggested higher tax rates for companies where the gap is too big. do you think that's the sort of idea that could be a vote—winner in the upcoming election? or is it politically too toxic for presidential candidates given they end up dealing with these individuals? pushing for policies to crack down on ceo pay would absolutely be a vote—winner. i have spoken to groups in small towns in swing states in four different states now. i would walk into audiences of republicans and expect to get a lot of debating, and i'd be allarmed with my arguments against extreme ceo pay levels, and what i found was enormous common ground. the problem is that big money has huge influence over our political system, and candidates are afraid

to rock the boat when it comes to their campaign finance. not all of them, but every poll is showing that this is a trans—partisan issue. across the political spectrum, people are just fed up. sarah anderson, thank you very much. do you think the pressure has made companies and politicians any more inclined to act on executive pay? i any more inclined to act on executive pay?— any more inclined to act on executive pay? i would like to think s0- _ executive pay? i would like to think so- i _ executive pay? i would like to think so. i also _ executive pay? i would like to think so. i also like _ executive pay? i would like to think so. i also like to think . think so. i also like to think that— think so. i also like to think that the _ think so. i also like to think that the pandemic should have made — that the pandemic should have made it— that the pandemic should have made it so much more obvious that— made it so much more obvious that people doing some of the lowest — that people doing some of the lowest paid work in our country

are as — lowest paid work in our country are as soon _ lowest paid work in our country are as soon as the heat was off, — are as soon as the heat was off, companies stopped giving out their— off, companies stopped giving out their little extra hardship page. — out their little extra hardship page, they went right back down to the _ page, they went right back down to the rock bottom wages, and a lot of— to the rock bottom wages, and a lot of those essential companies, and can you know, i'm still— companies, and can you know, i'm still waiting for it. i thought— i'm still waiting for it. i thought after the 2008 financial crisis that the mystique would be gone, that these — mystique would be gone, that these were not the top talents in our— these were not the top talents in our economy, that were responsible for driving our economy off a cliff and resulting in millions of people losing — resulting in millions of people losing their houses and their jobs. — losing their houses and their jobs. and _ losing their houses and their jobs, and it almost immediately the big — jobs, and it almost immediately the big banks and other financial firms that were complicit in that national crisis _ complicit in that national crisis turned around and started _ crisis turned around and started giving out big bonuses again. — started giving out big bonuses again, and so it isjust a very deeply— again, and so it isjust a very deeply entrenched systemic problem, and it is going to take — problem, and it is going to take public policy, i think, problem, and it is going to take public policy, ithink, to change — take public policy, ithink, to change it _ sarah anderson, thank you very much. all right, thanks.

so how does one individual cope with all the weight and response abilities of running a business. there are any number of big decisions to make, and then there's the responsibility for hundreds or thousands of staff and their livelihoods. it can all amount to a lot of pressure, but some individuals seem to thrive on that pressure. they include the serial entrepreneur who's made tens of millions of dollars from companies including soap & glory, fitflop and beauty pie. marcia kilgore, welcome to the programme. on this week's show, we're looking at the importance of the ceo to a company, and you've started a string of companies of your own. in your experience, what is it that a ceo can do for a company that no—one else can? you know, i think it's so important to have a great ceo and to have somebody who can really look at the different streams of work that need to be done, make those organised, prioritised, make sure that the different teams in the company are working together harmoniously and ensuring that time is not wasted, money is not wasted and energy is not wasted on things that are not going to move the dial for the company, while ensuring that there is a great,

enterprising and inspiring corporate culture throughout. marcia, when you're running a company responsible for the livelihoods of hundreds or thousands of people, but also have to think about other things like shareholders, climate change and products — to name a few — what weighs most heavily on you as an individual? it's really the human cost and making sure that everyone is given an opportunity to flourish in whatever it is that they've been hired to do within the business. it's so important for me that we are able to pull from each individual the talent that they both naturally have and then are able to develop over the course of their time within the business. it can be really a difficult thing to manage amidst all of the other pressures that you have. it's a hard balance to find. and how did it

all start for you? how did you know you wanted to be and could succeed as a serial entrepreneur and run company after company after company? for me, i am a builder. trying to get something from stasis to rolling, that is where i am best. so for me, selling a business to much larger corporation who might be better for it to do that next stage of the business is really quite natural for me. the business is really quite naturalfor me. so the business is really quite natural for me. so long as they will respect what the business was about in the first place, not forget what made us successful, then for me it is

actually really 0k.— actually really 0k. how did it all start actually really ok. how did it all start for— actually really 0k. how did it all start for you, _ actually really 0k. how did it all start for you, how - actually really 0k. how did it all start for you, how did - actually really 0k. how did it all start for you, how did you j all start for you, how did you know you were able to succeed as a serial entrepreneur and run company after company after company. run company after company after com an . �* , , company. here's the funny thin , company. here's the funny thin, i company. here's the funny thing. i still— company. here's the funny thing, i still don't - company. here's the funny thing, i still don't know- thing, i still don't know really, truly, that i'm a successful entrepreneur. part of being wired as an entrepreneur is you never actually believe it, using a full part tomorrow, you think everything isjust going full part tomorrow, you think everything is just going to explode if you do once more make one small misstep. so i am really down right in the details, most likely to my own detriment, just because i really want everything to work and i always believe that it's too good to be true. one of your companies

is the footwear brand fitflop, and i know you're not the ceo yourself, but this year, the brand has been launching a refresh of its line—up and a global expansion. when you're leading a company, how do you know it's time to take major steps like that? with any brand, in fact, every few years you do need to have a refresh. so you need to look back at what made you successful in the first place, and then look at how that might be relevant to the market today. you need to make sure that all your price points are in line with the market price points and any new competition that has come in. you need to look at where products are selling in volume, where technology is, if any of your competitors have come in and bettered your technology or gotten close to it, and where you are sitting in the market, whether that is america, or the americas, emea or asia. and i think, coming out of covid, it was just a perfect time for us to reassess where we were as a brand, what our technology looked like, where we were sitting amidst the competitive landscape and just, you know, give it a big push. another of your companies is the membership—based cosmetics firm beauty pie, which sells discounted make—up. it was just last year that you appointed kevin cornils as the first ceo of beauty pie.

so ijust wonder, as a founder, how do you go about picking the person to be your ceo and run your baby? it is hard to find someone who is smart enough to be able to run so many different programmes in their head, as is necessary when you're running something like beauty pie. beauty pie, obviously, we launch dozens of new products every year. what we have to do is not only create those products and communicate them for our current members, but then also we have to go out into the universe and convince new prospective members that it's a great idea tojoin our club. so those two streams, in addition to building your own software, in addition to all the legal things that come along with creating your own product, with laboratories, making sure that everything is, you know, according to the highest level of cosmetic standards and safety, it's an awful lot to do. so in interviewing ceo candidates, i'lljust say you probably eliminate quite a lot of them just because they don't have the intellectual bandwidth. and then, of course, they have to be able to put up with me...

laughter. ..which is a whole additional thing because i am quite impatient, i always want it to be better. you've got to have a lot of patience also to deal with a founder who's very passionate. if we go back to the ceo theme of the show, how many companies is it that you've started now and what makes you want to keep going rather than putting your feet up and enjoying the rewards of all that hard work? i believe i have now had, in my experience, five companies. i'll tell you, just continuously i'm thinking of ideas, and i don't know what i would do all day. i think probably in a past life, if you believe in that kind of thing, i must have been a market trader, because what really thrills me is finding great stuff and then selling it to people, especially when selling it to people, you know they are going to be very, very happy with whatever

the outcome of them using that product is. and getting that feedback is like a continuous pat on the back. i just love to invent things, and i thinkjust being able to improve the status quo is an intellectual challenge for me, and then being able to bring it to prospective customers is a really social thing. and as i'm not an employee, right, i have to sort of create my team. so i've got that family vibe and a lot of people to stimulate my mind every day. marcia kilgore, thank you very much. thanks for having me. well, that's all for this week. you can keep up with all the latest on the global economy on the bbc news website and its smartphone app. don't forget, you can get in touch with me and some of the team on social media. i'm @marklobel on x. till next time, bye—bye.

hello. snow has been falling across parts of the uk. it has been causing disruption, some icy conditions as well, and i think the problems will go on into sunday. so met office amber warnings remain in force. those warnings have been covering parts of wales, into the midlands and also northern england. and i think it is northern england that will bear the brunt of the snowfall as we head through daylight hours on sunday. through the first part of the morning, still some snow falling across high ground, north wales, the north midlands. could see 30cm in total for some higher ground here. at lower levels, perhaps turning back to sleet and rain in places. but that snow continuing to fall across northern england, remaining very cold here as we start the day. milder, you'll notice, down to the south—west. 12 degrees there in plymouth. now, as we go through the day, where we have that mild air in the south, it'll be rain that falls from the sky. quite windy, particularly around the coasts. some really heavy rain setting in once again across parts of wales through the afternoon. snow will continue to affect parts of northern england, particularly over higher ground, maybe more like rain

at low levels. some snow into the eastern side of northern ireland, southern and eastern parts of scotland. staying very cold across the northern half of the uk. much milderfurther south — 12 or 13 degrees. as we head through sunday night, this whole weather system just swirls away eastwards. some further snowfall likely across parts of southern scotland, northern england, perhaps down into wales and the midlands. 0n the back edge of that weather system, frequent snow showers pushing into some northern areas. another cold night. holding onto some milder conditions first thing on monday across the south—east corner. but, as this weather system swings away, it'll take rain with it. behind it, we will start to see some brighter skies developing out towards the west, albeit with a fair few wintry showers. and, with the winds coming down from the north, we will all be back into the cold air through monday afternoon. temperatures by 3:00pm on monday around 2—5 degrees across most parts of the uk. and once that cold air sets in, it will be with us for quite some time.

0ur area of low pressure swirling away eastwards. northerly winds, snow showers in that northerly flow. it may be that we see further weather systems pushing in from the south and west, giving some rain, sleet and snow at times. but certainly a cold week ahead, and there will be some wintry showers. good morning. welcome to breakfast, with rachel burden and ben thompson. 0ur headlines today: 0vernight snow has been falling across large parts of the uk, causing travel disruption and power cuts in some areas. iam here i am here in harrogate in north yorkshire, where people are waking up yorkshire, where people are waking up to severe weather warnings, and it is continuing to snow. good morning. amber warnings for snow and ice are still in force

across parts of north wales, the north midlands and especially northern england, which i think will see the brunt of the heavy snow. as it turns into rain, icy conditions and freezing rain for some of us. i will have all the details for you here on bbc breakfast. reform uk leader nigel farage defends tech billionaire elon musk over a series of critical posts about the british government. free speech is back. we may find it offensive, but it's a good thing, not a bad thing. ceremonies honouring the former us presidentjimmy carter, who died last week, have begun in his home state of georgia. avoiding hospital backlogs. we take a look at the frailty unit aiming to help elderly patients get seen quicker and sent home from hospital. a frustrating day for the teams chasing liverpool in the premier league title race. both arsenal and chelsea are held to draws away from home. leaders liverpool will go eight points clear if they beat manchester united later. snow has been falling

across large parts of the uk, causing travel disruption and power cuts in some areas.