and now, newscast, the bbc�*s daily news podcast, looks at elon musk�*s involvement in uk politics. recorded this morning — just before musk said he thinks nigel farage should be replaced as the leader of reform uk. paddy, paddy, paddy, is so nice to see you in person. it's nice to see you, too. just back from cheltenham racecourse. chelmsford. oh, yes, i'm sorry. also great races. the voice you are hearing is personally used to work from nigel farage until...

not that long ago. december, until about then. until what happened then? i was fired. and then he became really popular. yes! forgive me, this is what happens on a newscast. we are delighted to have you with us of course. we are going to spend quite a lot of time hearing from and talking about nigel farage. his reform party at the beginning of 2025, seems to be the ones making a lot of the running. whether you like it or not. let's talk about today newscast. hello, it's paddy in the studio. and it is laura in the studio. as we have already mentioned we are here with gwain toller, who is a partial guest, he is a guest with opinion, he is not a journalist, he is here, a fellow traveller from the reform party. very much so. how long were you nigel farage�*s brain? i would not claim to be his brain but...

since 2014, this is the third time i have been fired. that's a long time, kind of mirrors his career, the ups and downs, the great highs and the great lows. at the moment, he does appear to be riding a great high. we talk about what great friends he has because elon musk is going to get into trouble, it seems to me, he might pay him a lot of money but it also means getting in trouble. elon musk has been making a series of increasingly inflammatory and i think what most people find very offensive remarks about labour politicians, the prime minister and the home office minister, jess phillips. i query that most people find it offensive, most people in certain sectors of society but not most people. well, that's an interesting point so you think that most people find it offensive to be accused of being complicit in rape. yes, i do think many people would find that offensive but i think a lot of people are so angry that they

don't feel this particular thing is offensive. if it was directed at them, however, if it is directed at a government minister they think, well, hey. if you short cut to the angle part... it's not the same as an informed debate because a lot of the nuance has been lost. i think what many people are concerned about, including nigel farage himself, is a tax on the politicians. and our newscasters are very upset about attacks on migrant hostels, you can't firebomb migrant hostels. certainly you can't. so what we need is informed debate and we are not convinced we're getting that out of elon musk. so if we take this back then, if people did not hear yesterday's episode and they have not heard you on the radio on tv this morning, we are recording at 10:50am. quick context, elon musk has been saying incredibly rude things about keir starmer and jess phillips about their decision not to have a uk wide huge specific inquiry into what happened into the grooming gangs over a period of many yea rs. if you have been paying attention, you know that there have been lots of different investigations, however, there is no question that many vulnerable young women were let down appallingly for a long time and the authorities did

not act anything like rapidly, seriously enough and they have been, the evidence that people basically look to the other way. the impact of such an inquiry would be very very important. i think that the anger right now, many of the grooming gangs, rape gangs, call them them what you will, have been prosecuted. there may well be many more still operating, i don't know. they have been prosecuted. nobody is questioning that. the investigation, the inquiry should be into why was it downplayed. why was a father arrested for trying to save his child. who was it? who were the police? we have had named police by some of the victims, nothing has happened. none of the rotherham police have been sacked, none of the rotherham social workers have been sacked or the council workers for what was clearly failing. the biggest question in public life, is what did you know when did you know? we want to know who knew what and when and who did what and why?

the conservative government also turned down a call for a national public inquiry partly because when she was home secretary theresa may set up an inquiry into child sexual abuse historically so she would argue i've already set up one... and it didn't look at this and the person that carried out that inquiry did make a very long list of recommendations of what to do about this. and she has pointed out since that the conservatives did not follow up on any of them. what we have also been trying to to this week is, nigel farage, beyond the substance of the issue of an inquiry which we talked quite a lot about yesterday. the question of nigel farage is notjust about inquiry comic for him it's a different one. it is his high voltage friendship with elon musk, who

has a huge megaphone that he is using back—to—back and support him, to put massive rocket boosters and everything he has said, is there a point that could burn him with some of the voters ? and is there a line where nigel farage would say that elon musk cannot trust with the kind of thing is that he is saying what has been going on with this country. let's have a listen to what he said this morning... would i rather live in a world where we're free to cause offence than a world in which free speech and debate gets shut down? i know which of those two i prefer. would you tell elon musk that he is wrong? i know you have distanced yourself from what he said about tommy robinson... you know what, realfriends when they meet face—to—face and they have conversations and they have conversations and they agree on they agree to disagree and that is what open society and free speech is all about. �* ., , ., society and free speech is all about. �* ., ., ., about. but have you out anyone in our about. but have you out anyone in your team — about. but have you out anyone in your team said _ about. but have you out anyone in your team said to _ about. but have you out anyone in your team said to elon - about. but have you out anyone in your team said to elon muskl in your team said to elon musk that his calls for tommy robinson to be released from prison, a convicted offender, somebody on the far right who

you yourself are worked very hard to distance yourself from, have you told and he is wrong about that? i have you told and he is wrong about that?— about that? i think you're missing _ about that? i think you're missing the _ about that? i think you're missing the point. - about that? i think you're missing the point. the i about that? i think you're - missing the point. the point. the point is the fact that he supports me politically and supports me politically and supports does not mean that i have to agree with every single statement he makes on x. i think you're getting bogged down in this, i will in the operation have a conversation with him in a variety of things and this will no doubt be one of them. no doubt the media getting to hang up on this. frankly, what he says about other people, what his views on electric vehicles are whatever it may be is irrelevant. i can't really talk about the mask— i can't really talk about the mask thing because that's very recent. — mask thing because that's very recent, tramp, yes, he has been a friend — recent, tramp, yes, he has been a friend of— recent, tramp, yes, he has been a friend of tram since 2016 and

is not _ a friend of tram since 2016 and is noiiust— a friend of tram since 2016 and is noiiust a _ a friend of tram since 2016 and is not just a friend a friend of tram since 2016 and is notjust a friend of tram, he's — is notjust a friend of tram, he's a — is notjust a friend of tram, he's a friend of a lot of pennie _ he's a friend of a lot of people that he is bringing his cabinet — people that he is bringing his cabinet so he has a depth of understanding. like some pennie. _ understanding. like some people, nigeland donald trump both value loyalty and the fact that nigel farage put his head above — that nigel farage put his head above the parapet before trump became — above the parapet before trump became president, the only international polisher to do so. international polisher to do s0~ that _ international polisher to do so. that is made a great deal, that_ so. that is made a great deal, that friendship has been maintained over many years so there _ maintained over many years so there is— maintained over many years so there is a — maintained over many years so there is a real friendship. what _ there is a real friendship. what kind of friendship... i want to ask you more about the impact of that in a second and how useful it is to nigel farage but in terms of him and president tramp, how does it work? do the messages other? sinai do they phone each other, i don't how often, i suspect now that he is president elect their phone calls be fewer and farther between.— their phone calls be fewer and farther between. doesn't extend to the circle. _ farther between. doesn't extend to the circle, has _ farther between. doesn't extend to the circle, has donald - farther between. doesn't extend to the circle, has donald trumpl to the circle, has donald trump shown largest to you? are you

invited to the inauguration? i'm might have been invited by can't _ i'm might have been invited by can't afford it.— can't afford it. how does it work because _ can't afford it. how does it work because he's - can't afford it. how does it work because he's going i can't afford it. how does it| work because he's going to can't afford it. how does it - work because he's going to give him money, he says he's going to give nigel farage money? 1 to give nigel farage money? i think if that's possible what is more _ think if that's possible what is more interesting is the ability— is more interesting is the ability and the learning, how they— ability and the learning, how they worked in pennsylvania some — they worked in pennsylvania some of— they worked in pennsylvania some of the swing state and how reform _ some of the swing state and how reform can — some of the swing state and how reform can use that tech to target _ reform can use that tech to target and effectively campaign which _ target and effectively campaign which is — target and effectively campaign which is reform's be a problem. we are — which is reform's be a problem. we are great at the air war into— we are great at the air war intothe— we are great at the air war into the ground that will be the hard _ into the ground that will be the hard work.— the hard work. i'm sorry to interrunt- _ the hard work. i'm sorry to interrupt. conversational l the hard work. i'm sorry to - interrupt. conversational tone! he's not rude!— he's not rude! one of the thins he's not rude! one of the things i — he's not rude! one of the things i do _ he's not rude! one of the things i do read _ he's not rude! one of the things i do read from - he's not rude! one of the l things i do read from radio four listeners and you might have from your viewers, why are you doing nigel farage on the first sunday of the year? we've only got five mps, the bbc�*s are championing a party, it is said, which is only got five

mps. is said, which is only got five mps. , ., , mps. is an interesting thing about this. _ mps. is an interesting thing about this, you _ mps. is an interesting thing about this, you are - mps. is an interesting thing about this, you are this - mps. is an interesting thing about this, you are this day| about this, you are this day and age, almost whoever you are talk to you get vaccinations that you're giving somebody a platform. giving somebody an interview is not giving zambia platform, it is asking questions about things that are in the nudes. trying to hold them in to account. as we have talked about lots of times, there is no question that something very interesting is going on with reform, their members have passed 170,000, they said yesterday, that is much bigger than the conservatives. it's growing very quickly. they right now are often neck and neck or sometimes even head of the conservative in the polls. the other thing that is interesting in terms of the mechanics of how low this it works and all the new cast is like to know about. the traditional sunday morning is that injanuary and is for all the party leaders, the prime list normally goes first, keir starmer perfectly legitimately, his team told us he did not want to be the first weekend of the year. we had to

speak to the next few weeks but he chose not to. sometimes from the outside, and i wish we could phone up whoever we wanted and get them on the site. it's interesting, though, isn't it? , , site. it's interesting, though, isn't it? , site. it's interesting, though, isn'tit? , isn't it? just can you tell it with your _ isn't it? just can you tell it with your knowledge - isn't it? just can you tell it with your knowledge of. isn't it? just can you tell it - with your knowledge of everyone there, what does nigel farage want from elon musk and what to see elon musk at once nigel farage? i see elon musk at once nigel faraae? ., �* ~ ., farage? i don't know if musk wants anything _ farage? i don't know if musk wants anything from - farage? i don't know if musk wants anything from nigel. wants anything from nigel forage _ wants anything from nigel farage i really don't. he sees what — farage i really don't. he sees what nigel does and believes and he — what nigel does and believes and he has a level of support that— and he has a level of support that absolutely but i don't think— that absolutely but i don't think musk wants anything from nigei~ _ think musk wants anything from nigel. what does reform, nigel, one from — nigel. what does reform, nigel, one from last? i think it's more _ one from last? i think it's more not _ one from last? i think it's more not so much the money but it's looking — more not so much the money but it's looking at how musk supported tramp in campaigning in key— supported tramp in campaigning in key seats, in key states, in pennsylvania and elsewhere, because _ pennsylvania and elsewhere, because reform is great in the air war— because reform is great in the air war but _ because reform is great in the airwar but the because reform is great in the air war but the ground is where we needm _

air war but the ground is where we need- - -_ we need... 2025 is about building _ we need... 2025 is about building a _ we need... 2025 is about building a machine - we need... 2025 is about building a machine for. we need... 2025 is about| building a machine for the general election, is what he said. let's see.— said. let's see. the bit the bi aer said. let's see. the bit the bigger links _ said. let's see. the bit the bigger links altogether - said. let's see. the bit the bigger links altogether is l said. let's see. the bit the i bigger links altogether is that people who like reform has felt let down by the main political parties. they were made promises which were not delivered on. that is a serious cancer for our political... year after year after year. is year after year after year. is one year after year after year. one of the year after year after year. is one of the reasons went to the reform yesterday because something is happening with this increasing membership. as we are talking about yesterday, there were people of all different ages there, it was not a particular demographic. but the one thing that people had in common was that they were all very angry. whether they were angry about pylons, immigration, feeling skint, what they saw as a lack of opportunity for the young people, they were all very angry. and for them, people, they were all very angry. and forthem, nigel farage's reform party is giving them a home. they were also very happy to be together...

and giving them a voice. they were enjoying to being together. the mood of the event was actually quite jovial. celebrate tree, yes. it was actually quite jovial. celebrate tree, yes. it was celebrated _ celebrate tree, yes. it was celebrated in _ celebrate tree, yes. it was celebrated in that - celebrate tree, yes. it was celebrated in that context. celebrate tree, yes. it was - celebrated in that context. i'm not going to make big predictions about what that means or what that might not means or what that might not mean but it's certainly pertinent and relevant to discuss the beginning of the year. discuss the beginning of the ear. ~ ., discuss the beginning of the ear. ~ . ., , ., ., year. what it does mean, one thin it year. what it does mean, one thing it does _ year. what it does mean, one thing it does mean, _ year. what it does mean, one thing it does mean, this - thing it does mean, this 130,000 that have joined since general— 130,000 that have joined since general election, that's not people _ general election, that's not people who have got their subscriptions on annual take over— subscriptions on annual take over which many other parties do have — over which many other parties do have. these are people who are having _ do have. these are people who are having the passion of the newly— are having the passion of the newly converted, these are people _ newly converted, these are people who will knock on doors, they— people who will knock on doors, they go— people who will knock on doors, they go out campaigning. this is not — they go out campaigning. this is not a — they go out campaigning. this is not a passive membership. this— is not a passive membership. this is— is not a passive membership. this is a — is not a passive membership. this is a highly active membership. you have mentioned that camaraderie, if in many walks — that camaraderie, if in many walks of— that camaraderie, if in many walks of life, you say you're a supporter _ walks of life, you say you're a supporter of reform, you are shunned _ supporter of reform, you are shunned. in that room, they are

amongst — shunned. in that room, they are amongst friends. and they see that they— amongst friends. and they see that they are alone. in certain industries. _ that they are alone. in certain industries, and i would suggest broadcasting is one, somebody who is— broadcasting is one, somebody who is a — broadcasting is one, somebody who is a reformer is regarded at little — who is a reformer is regarded at little bit beyond the pale. i at little bit beyond the pale. i know — at little bit beyond the pale. i know plenty of people within various — i know plenty of people within various broadcasting organisations who quietly say i can't _ organisations who quietly say i can't say— organisations who quietly say i can't say it work. i wouldn't ask~ — can't say it work. i wouldn't ask. ~ ., can't say it work. i wouldn't ask. . . . , , ask. what was interesting yesterday _ ask. what was interesting yesterday was _ ask. what was interesting yesterday was a _ ask. what was interesting yesterday was a feeling i ask. what was interesting - yesterday was a feeling amongst some of the people i spoke to that they were happy to have found each other. i think that's something you can certainly... if that's something you can certainly. . ._ certainly... if there is an average _ certainly... if there is an average now, _ certainly... if there is an average now, a - certainly... if there is an average now, a blunt - certainly... if there is an - average now, a blunt average mean, _ average now, a blunt average mean. of— average now, a blunt average mean, of about 260, 270 average now, a blunt average mean, ofabout 260, 270 members per constituency. that's a lot. let per constituency. that's a lot. let me — per constituency. that's a lot. let me go— per constituency. that's a lot. let me go back to laura's question. not to you, to nigel farage, which was what is the impact of the world's richest man calling for one of our ministers to go to prison? and why can't nigel farage simply

say... he's actually wrong to say that he shouldn't be saying that. wouldn't that help the tone of our public debate? we can'tjust be angry with each other all the time. what did the former what did the current foreign ministers call trump racist? personally i think it was well beyond _ personally i think it was well beyond the pale. interesting, has he? — beyond the pale. interesting, has he? 0n the tommy beyond the pale. interesting, has he? 0n the to