hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. the us tech giant meta has announced it'll be removing the body of the 39th president jimmy carter to pennsylvania avenue and isjust jimmy carter to pennsylvania avenue and is just standing and waiting at the moment in vehicles drawing up behind the casket carrying members of the family and former staff of the president and some of the clergy that have former staff of the president and some of the clergy that have accompanied former staff of the president and some of the clergy that have accompanied the former staff of the president and some of the clergy that have accompanied the casket here to washington, a military honour is lining pennsylvania and constitution avenues secretary of the navies standing by and in a short moment, we will see the casket

transferred from the motorcade to the horse drawn carriage which will then move down pennsylvania avenue to the capital building to the rotunda where it will lie in state for two days. in the studio, laura smith, the us presidential historian and also the us ambassador of invoice and stanley. as we look at these pictures, let us just talk about his time in office, he was very much buffered by the events of the time and i think for many people there were things that began in his tenure which did not happen until much later, do you think people are starting to look back atjimmy carter's time in office and reassessing his record? reassessing his record 7

absolutely. reassessing his record? absolutely. it's a very interesting phenomenon and one that will almost cavity out by comparing with gerald ford. when gerald ford died, there was a huge sort of revisionism over his most infamous act which was pardoning richard nixon. at that point, all this and people suddenly felt may be they misjudged this man who obviously failed to win his own turn and had been booted out by the surge of disillusionment especially towards the republicans and watergate. now that we've had donald trump, people are now looking not so fondly of the fact that gerald ford issued that pardon. it does go in waves depending on current context at the moment, there are a lot of people were very keen to come forward of the facts that have really been lost and at the end of the cold war focusing lost and at the end of the cold warfocusing on reagan and bush rather than onjimmy carter.

another rather than on jimmy carter. another ambassador rather than onjimmy carter. another ambassador wrote about this, the former domestic policy of the white house during jimmy carter's time. conventional wisdom is that jimmy carter was a failure as a president but redeemed as a philanthropist in his presidential years. philanthropist in his presidentialyears. he philanthropist in his presidential years. he is palpably wrong, some say why is his presence he remembered so harshly and is due in part to his unorthodox approach to the presidency and he believes he could park politics at the oval office door and procure another term by concentrating on doing the right thing, forgetting, he adds, that a president must be adds, that a president must be a politician in chief. it seems to me that is true because he was not fundamentally weak but he allowed, perhaps, at the end, that perception of weakness to take hold. that is a ureat weakness to take hold. that is a great quote- _ weakness to take hold. that is

a great quote. the _ weakness to take hold. that is a great quote. the bottom - weakness to take hold. that is| a great quote. the bottom line is that if you relinquish her narrative and leave it to others, it might not be the narrative you want. keeping in mind his domestic policy attributes which his triumphs were creating the department of energy which is a key department in our government now in civil service reform and the former government employee very much appreciated that in there things that he did domestically as well as things that he did not do internationally and again from my youth in my work thatjimmy carter quickly put human rights at the centre of his foreign policy and tried to make america match what we were seeing in words and this is something we continue to struggle with because interest often conflicts with promoting human rights, with putting the good of the world in equal

places with the good of the united states. that was important for the united states and braced it for the entire world and also domestically elevated women, particularly with judges, elevated women, particularly withjudges, pushing forward how womenjudges will sit withjudges, pushing forward how women judges will sit on the united states and that increase exponentially in the united states and diversifying the american civil service and leadership and he has talked about america needing to look like, represent the country that it like, represent the country thatitis like, represent the country that it is and if you look at some of the archives, you'll see that he chastises national security adviser for not bringing more minorities into the white house and when he said he couldn't, jimmy carter said he couldn't, jimmy carter said you have to do better in don't fill any vacancies with a

50% of it being minorities. african—americans, hispanic americans, latin americans, asian americans, have this white house truly represent the full array of americans in the country. and he started that, many years ago. ._ country. and he started that, many years ago. . probably the first feminist _ many years ago. . probably the first feminist in _ many years ago. . probably the first feminist in the _ many years ago. . probably the first feminist in the oval- first feminist in the oval office and we cannot mention that without talking about his wife rosalyn, his dear wife who he will be buried next to on thursday near the pond that he could see from his porch alongside her. she was deeply political. she had her own staff in the east wing and she was a bit like eleanor roosevelt and very much involved in the day—to—day decision—making there wasn't much he didn't consult her on. sometimes for a president, having _ sometimes for a president, having that spouse is someone that you — having that spouse is someone that you can really confide in an obvious not for national security—

an obvious not for national security purposes but terms of the one — security purposes but terms of the one person can trust above all else — the one person can trust above all else. you want a friend in washington, get a dog, the order— washington, get a dog, the order harriet truman statement. but for— order harriet truman statement. but forjimmy carter, that was some — but forjimmy carter, that was some comfort and he was the one who got— some comfort and he was the one who got ruth bader ginsburg elevated her as well and she eventually became under bill clinton — eventually became under bill clinton a supreme court justice. _ clinton a supreme court justice, even though she was deemed _ justice, even though she was deemed to be order for supreme justice _ deemed to be order for supreme justice at— deemed to be order for supreme justice at that time. and we definitely see the importance thatjimmy carter put in diversification which is a fantastic legacy but not one that — fantastic legacy but not one that was absolutely linear. rohaid _ that was absolutely linear. ronald reagan came in and he did not— ronald reagan came in and he did not that priority at all when _ did not that priority at all when it— did not that priority at all when it came to diversity, in fact, — when it came to diversity, in fact, sometimes quite the opposite. he was told that he needed — opposite. he was told that he needed power, he needed his experience in the second term, coiin— experience in the second term, colin powell was one of the few men _ colin powell was one of the few men of— men of diversity, african—american man to be in

his team, _ african—american man to be in his team, but changes a policy, energy— his team, but changes a policy, energy is— his team, but changes a policy, energy is another one in the solar— energy is another one in the solar panel that carter put on the white house that ronald reagan ripped off as soon as he -ot reagan ripped off as soon as he got there. — reagan ripped off as soon as he got there, but in terms of legacy— got there, but in terms of legacy and long term, absolutely, jimmy carter focused on these things for the first time _ focused on these things for the first time. we focused on these things for the first time. ~ , focused on these things for the first time-— first time. we see the family here just _ first time. we see the family here just coming _ first time. we see the family here just coming to - first time. we see the family here just coming to their - here just coming to their positions behind the case which will move down the avenue and we talked about 33 members of his family have travelled here to washington, three generations of them, children, grandchildren and great—grandchildren all of them taking annual leave to come here to be withjimmy carter and as we discussed in the first half and this is a very important poignant moment for very many members of his family and staff who have come here

today and on a bitterly court date as well and pretty bad weather on the east coast and the last few days, let's just listen into some of this is the casket is taken out of the car.

the us navy band playing held to the chief as the body of the 39th presidentjimmy carter is taken out of the hearse and moved on the horse drawn carriage that will put down pennsylvania avenue to the rotunda where the senior members of the us congress are waiting —— hailto members of the us congress are waiting —— hail to the chief. members of the family willjoin the procession following behind and there is also a military honour guard down pennsylvania and constitution avenue as the horse is pulled towards the us capital. it is very sombre

occasion and the formality of the ritual, jimmy carter would've faced many times in his life as well which he would've looked over the details of this perhaps every three to six months and certainly so in the last part of his life and what do you make of what we are witnessing here? pa. make of what we are witnessing here? �* ., ., , ., here? a lot of pomp and circumstance. _ here? a lot of pomp and circumstance. nothing i circumstance. nothing unexpected but that shouldn't take away from the fact that the president's coffin is very small. bill clinton was hospitalised for christmas with a fever and then, jimmy carter lived a long life and this is a celebration of a man who made use of every single day and really focusing on service, the fact that he is a very religious man and very much focused on deeds as well as

words and focusing on these humanitarian causes and people celebrating this unique legacy, this or extended legacy in a way that we don't normally see. deeds and words, when awarded the nobel peace prize, the chairman of the nobel committee said carter had lived by his faith and by the book, the worst thing you can do is not to try and few people, he said, if any, have tried harder than jimmy carter. if you look at the many different roles he played in this life, it is quite extraordinary. it played in this life, it is quite extraordinary. it is. it is indeed- _ quite extraordinary. it is. it is indeed. and _ quite extraordinary. it is. it is indeed. and we - quite extraordinary. it is. it is indeed. and we are - quite extraordinary. it is. it is indeed. and we are lucky that we have this retrospective and can look that we have this retrospect