tv Tracey Emin BBC News January 11, 2025 2:30am-3:01am GMT
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we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. this is work. my loo. can we have a look? yeah, that's all right. yeah. this is you, obviously. yeah, it was one of my drawings. i also wrote on the door because i only wanted people with serious disabilities to be using this loo, and have the wonderful benefit of my drawing. so that's their bonus. and then, also, i drew the cat here. my wild bit of graffiti. yeah, and then, this is the tears area here. what are tears? tracey emin artist residency. so this is the communal area and the kitchen. so are these the studio spaces? these are the studios. you didn't have to have gone
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to art school before, you didn't — but you have to be motivated, talented, and you have to know, like, we ask questions like, "what's your favourite artist? "what was the last show you saw? "what's the book you're reading at the moment?" so if someone lives in ghana, for example, obviously they're not going to say, "the show at white cube", or whatever, but they can online. they can say they saw this, they saw that. they can say what they're reading, they can show us the books they've got, things like that. so we want to know how engaged they are with art and how it's happening in their minds as well. how do you find teaching? i like it sometimes, and sometimes it irritates me. art changes the world. art is one of the few things that people can do... ..that doesn't hurt anyone. tracey emin is an icon. from a rebellious star of the art world in the 1990s to receiving the title of dame from king charles, her career spans
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over three decades. because i'm a woman drawing from being a woman from inside myself, 150 years ago, there never would have been a woman using herself as a muse. it wouldn't have happened like that. her pieces tackle sex, pain, and the female experience in a deliberately confessional way. but emin�*s life hasn't always been full of awards and royal recognition. 25 years after her famous artwork, my bed, which was nominated for a turner prize, we speak to her about the person behind the artwork, and the legacy she hopes to leave behind. dame tracey emin, it's a pleasure to be here with you — and for you to feature on the bbc�*s list of 100 incredible women. what's your reaction to being on that list? i think if you're just busy and you'rejust getting
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on with your life, all these accolades or different things that come, it'sjust always a nice surprise. and actually, just for the record, i don't accept them all. oh, really? what have you turned down? i wouldn't say, would i? oh, come on. yeah, no. not the damehood. no, no. no? i'm quite pleased with that, yeah. yeah, we'll come back to that. we are in your studios in the coastal town of margate. it's an incredible space. what does it mean to you? well, to have a studio like this, like any artist, you know, it's pretty incredible, because i can work on maybe 20 or 30 paintings at the same time. it gives me lots of time to think about things. i have lots of air and lots of space. it's a separate space from where i live, but it's actually connected to where i live, which is a really spoilt situation for anyone. but the best thing about it is, it's in margate — and margate�*s where i grew up, margate�*s my hometown. and there's a massive lot of creative people and artists coming here now, and living here. and so i love it, it's brilliant. and also, like, it's so fantastic. you can paint, and thenjust go down to the beach and go fora swim. i'm really lucky to have this space. i know i am.
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and you mentioned working on 20 paintings at the same time — is that how you work? and have you always worked like that, working on different things at the same time? that sounds, like, really over the... it sounds like a woman with arms like a windmill or something. but, erm, no, what it is is that i can have a canvas out for six months, ijust do one wash on it, and ijust leave it for six months, and then i'm working on another one, and then i come in and then just do some mad, chaotic drawing on the wash. then i might write something on another canvas, then i might actually completely paint over another one. so what it is, is, when you have space and time, painting, a lot of it, people think is aboutjust the activity of painting, but it's not. it's about waiting and looking, and letting the painting come to the surface, letting the painting do its own thing, letting the painting collect its own energy. you've lived in different places in your lifetime, but margate is the place you call home. what are yourfondest memories from here? my fondest memory is, of course, going to be involved with my mum — because my mum
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lived here for so long — but my fondest memories are now, the ones that i'm living in. the memories i've got as a childhood — from my childhood, swimming and being in the sea — i've got those same memories now as an adult. we're still swimming in the sea and we're still puerile and childlike, and it feels like a free space. and i think my child... i was very unhappy as a child. so it's really good to come back to margate, wash away those memories and bring back new ones for myself. erm, yourfather — you've talked about, you know, fond memories, but also a difficult childhood — wasn't around much when you were growing up. his heritage was turkish cypriot. erm, how much of an impact did that have on you — or influence, i should say, has that had on you? well, my dad being cypriot is a massive influence. my dad actually wasn't very turkish at all, even though he had a turkish passport, turkish cypriot.
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my dad's grandfather was from the sudan — well, from nubia — and he was a slave in the ottoman empire. he gained his freedom in cyprus, and they were known as the black turks. and my dad — that was my dad's grandfather — and then when my dad came to england in 1948, and then a lot of his cypriot friends, the greek cypriots, were in margate, and they said, "enver, come to margate. "it's just like cyprus. "it's just like the mediterranean. " and they all had these — all these greeks have these amazing coffee bars and everything, greek cypriots. and so my dad came to margate and opened a hotel. and that's how we ended up in margate. my mum and dad weren't married. my dad was married to his turkish wife. he had two families. and so i grew up only seeing my dad a couple of times a week, or maybe every now and then. and it—it�*s... ..something which ijust accepted and lived with. i think, coming from a mixed race, mixed background, mixed — you know, half my family were muslims as well — you know, there's a big thing, there's lots going on. and leaving home at 15,
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i left home at 15. my life — a lot of artists, you have to get into university to do art. and a lot of artists have got their a—levels, they've got their middle—class background, they've got their a—levels, they've got their upper—class background, they've got their a—levels, they got their university. it wasn't like that for me. it was a very different story. so if i'm going to tell a story about being a woman who's successful, i'm going to tell the story of, when people say "no" to you, you don't listen to them. you just do what you have to do, and do what you want to do. and in the education system in this country, a lot of it is set up on a class basis. so if you come from a very working—class background, or you speak how i do, you're not expected to do well. you're not expected to achieve. and if you've got, like, the willpower and determination and you — from the age of 12, i knew i wanted to be an artist. and here i am.
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because i didn't let anybody stop me, and i didn't listen to anybody, and i did what i believed in, what i wanted to do, because i had a vocation. art is a vocation in life. it's not...it�*s not a job, it's not a career. it's something you do. it's not to do with money. it's something you feel you have to do, and you can't stop yourself from doing it. and because it's all i've ever done — luckily, i wasn't that academic at school — so all i've ever done is paint and draw and write, actually. how did you know that? like, in your teenage years, how did you know art was the thing you wanted to do? because i left school at 13. if you don't go to school, the social services will come and get you. right. and you had to go to — i had to go to school three days a week. so when i went to school, the art teachers just said, "0h, let herjust sit here at the table, making art". so i did that two days a week
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at school and then the other day, i did the english and maths, and special pe — because i was a good runner. and from doing... at the age of 14 to 15, doing art two days a week, it meant that it was drummed into my mind, it was part of me. and then the art teachers, mrjay and mrs morris, kept telling me how good i was — whereas before, everybody, apart from running, everybody kept telling me how bad i was. bad for smoking, bad for getting to school late, bad for this, bad for shoplifting, bad for whatever. no—one was telling me i was good at anything. and then, suddenly, i was being told that i was good at art, and that stayed with me. in your memoir, strangeland, there are disturbing references to being sexually assaulted when you were 13 years old. how has that period of your life contributed to the art that you make now? well, i wasn't sexually assaulted when i was 13, i was raped. that's one thing. but i was also, after that, having teenage — i was having sex with men that were 25, 22 years old. you know, it wasn't like a fumble behind
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a bus shed. it wasn't like somebody grabbed my breast or something. i was having full—blown sex at the age of 13 and 14, which is — with men — which is on another level, it's on another league. so, how that affected me, i think, was in a kind of positive — if i say in a positive way — i—i slept with everyone i wanted to in margate and decided to go to london when i was 15, and that's what i did. in going to london when i was 15, i met a lot of incredibly creative people. i stayed in a squat in warren street. i met people like boy george, lots of fashion designers, musicians, different — really well—known people now, it would be like name—dropping, it would be incredible. but i was only 15—16, and they sort of inspired me. they were all at saint martins, the royal college of art, and i thought, "oh, why can't i do that"? and you speak so openly about your life, the life of a woman who loves, who enjoys sex, but also suffers having sex. and you express your pain
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so candidly — experiences many women have and can relate to — have you ever regretted being so open about those intimate things that have happened to you ? i did say once, "the worst rape of all is to rape yourself", so when you publicly, like, you know, tear yourself apart and open yourself up. but i've been doing it all my life. and i think the only time i didn't do it, which i was very, very quiet about, was when i had cancer, a very bad cancer. i was very quiet about that while i — because i thought i was going to die, so i thought i didn't want to make a big fuss about it. in my life, i'm very open and candid about things, because also, i think holding secrets, holding heaviness, holding weight is very unhealthy, and not very good forthe mind. and when i was younger, people thought i made very narcissistic work, and very self—indulgent and very vain work, because it was like, "me, me, me". but now, now times have changed, people realise that
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making work about rape, abortion, teenage sex, all of these subjects are really important, because they have to be discussed. and right now, what's happening in the world, they really need to be discussed. so anybody that thought i was ranting on about abortion 30 years ago, look what's happening now. you've been very open about your personal life throughout your career, very open in this interview. you're a confessional artist, but is there... are there things that you keep secret? or are you completely open? no, i haven't got any secrets at all. none. none whatsoever. but it's up to people to ask me things. yeah. someone asks me a question, i'll give them an answer. but if people don't ask... which awards and accolades have you turned down? thanks, tina. tracey emin was part
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of a group celebrated as the young british artists in the 1990s — the so—called ybas. and whilst their work was often seen as provocative and controversial, emin was frequently singled out for the severest criticism by the press. the british press actually really hurt me, because i think if they really thought my work was that bad, just don't say anything. just cut me out of your pages. give your pages to someone else who you want to triumph. but, following a battle with cancer in 2020, emin returned to her roots in margate, and is now focused on projects which reshape her sense of purpose, as well as her idea of her own legacy too. you were known as the "enfant terrible" of the art world — i mean, now, obviously, national treasure. erm, but did that title — was it limiting for you? i mean, did it botheryou? did it help you?
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no, it did not help me at all. and i think, if anything, it put a lot of people off, you know, like in america, americansjust, like, wouldn't have any of it. theyjust, like, rolled their eyes, kind of thing. and museums, you know... ..why would a museum give a wild child a show? you know, someone who's not taking themselves — appears not to be taking themselves seriously? why would they? you know, the drinking, the rock—and—rollness, how i looked as well — that was another thing — people didn't like it, that i looked sexy and i looked good. why not? what... ? nobody talks aboutjeff koons, in his...with his tight balls and his nice pink suit or whatever. you know, jeff's really, like, a cool person. you know, men can do it, men can have that swagger. but if a woman comes along — i think, in one review, it said, "she walked in with her breasts out "looking like moll flanders". moll flanders is a thief, you know? it's like, what. . . ? i'm an artist. what was it like, baring so much of your soul to the world? when i made my tent, 1995 —
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remember, people didn't necessarily take it seriously. there was all those cartoons, you know, saying, "tom" — sort of like a, you know, a little pointy tent saying, "tom, dick and harry", or whatever. and everyone just thought it was about sex, or some boasting prowess of how many people i'd slept with. and i said, when i made that tent, each name that i sewed on that tent was like carving out tombstones or gravestones. and the whole point of the tent was that people were supposed to go into the tent, read who i'd slept with, and then come out and think about who they'd slept with, and why, and what level of intimacy, and different things. because if the tent was around now, it would have a completely different meaning, people would understand it a lot more, and people wouldn't see it as such a fierce... provocative. ..provocative thing. they would understand it, they would get it. and then, the bed, of course, your bed... yeah. ..the famous artwork that had you nominated for the prestigious turner prize — i can't believe it's been 25 years.
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i mean, how do you see that piece after all this time? i love it, i love the bed. i still stand by it, still defend it, still love it. i think also, now it's become — that, the bed itself, has become a national treasure of sorts. you know, the bed is something which i'm happy to show in other exhibitions, in museums and things if i can, but it can only be out for a certain amount of time, daylight, because all the sheets and everything's so fragile. it's like a time capsule of a woman from the �*90s. there's things on it now which just don't even exist any more. and i'm sure someone who's 20 will be looking at it, going, "what is that"? a lot of your work focuses on the bodily form. how would you describe your relationship with your own body now? i'd like to swear and say, "i hate it", right? but on the other hand, i'm 61, and i'm lucky to be here. and for someone who's gone through such an incredible amount of surgery — i had a seven—and—a—half—hour surgery, i had... 12 people. yeah, most of my body
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parts were removed, like, i had half my vagina removed, my bladder removed, my urethra, and my whole full hysterectomy, part of my bowel removed, and made into a stoma. i mean, it's hardcore. my surgeon said, "it doesn't get much bigger than that", really. i think the problems i have, looking in a mirror, i've always had. i don't think it's a new thing. i think there's a lot of women that sufferfrom this. and from when i was young i was really thin, you know, and ifind now being normal difficult. but i know it's keeping me alive and keeping me well. so if i was to suddenly be really thin or something, then i've got big problems, because last time i was really thin, i had six months to live. and that's not a good look, is it? if you draw a line from the young, provocative artist smashing her own paintings to — you were made a royal academician by the royal academy of art, so a group of elite artists, basically — how do you see that trajectory? even more so, now i'm a trustee
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at the british museum. ..museum, yeah, and that. the royal academy, for years, has always been — was very much, in a strange way, a very male institution. that's significant in itself, you're only one of, what, two women appointed as professor at the academy. is that right? yeah. yeah, in 236 years, or something like that. i know. i mean, does that feel like the ultimate seal of approval from the art world? no. not that you need it. no, the ultimate seal of approval from the art world is the 90,000 people thatjust went to see my last show. that's the ultimate seal. the turin shroud is not the turin shroud if no—one goes to see it. it's just a bit of old cloth. my paintings, or my art, when people go to see them, young people, old people, mixture of people... i'm an artist. to be an artist, part of that is a response from other people looking at my work. and that is the seal of approval, that my art has a reason for existing. would you consider yourself
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to be part of that elite now? i'm — being a dame... being a dame, dame tracey. sounds good. yeah, so, a bit of name—dropping — the first person to call me and congratulate me was eltonjohn. so i was in bed and he facetimed me and i said, "yeah, i was thinking about you", and i said to him, "you know, there's not many really working—class people "that get the honour of being a sir ora dame, orwhatever". and i said, "but you sound all right, sir elton". and he said to me, "you've gotta admit, tracey, "it's an oxymoron". isaid, "yeah, dame tracey" — it's just so brilliant. it's just like, it should inspire people, you know, that, like, if you work hard enough and you're really... it's not... the accolade of being a dame is for the work that i've done. and that's why it feels good. if you were to start out as an artist today, as a young woman, do you think it would have been easier for you in any way?
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well, yes and no. sadly, it's almost impossible to go to art school or university or college if you come from an impoverished background. it is impossible. i think now, it's much better for women doing art, and in the arts, and i think it's much better for people from black and from different ethnic cultures doing art. when i was at art school, when i was at the royal college of art doing painting, there was only one black person there, which is kind of shocking, isn't it? and also, there's very few working—class people because, to get to that level, you've got to get your a—levels, you've got to have your support from your family. imagine, even if you have got a—levels and you come from a very working—class family, they don't want you to go off and be an artist. they want you to go off and be a banker or a doctor or something. so, i think — and now,
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with the state of our education in schools, and the lack of it, and the fact that the governments haven't — i say governments — haven't treated it as an issue of importance. i think that, you know, this country — creativity, design, art, everything — every time there's a recession, it's the arts and creativity that bring britain up into the fruition, from whether it's cool britannia, the sixties, whatever it is. and the fact that the governments haven't understood how important the arts are for this country is tragic. i've done my bit, i canjust paint now and just rest. and where i'd like to put all my energy and everything is helping other people achieve and make art, and other people change things, and change their own destinies through art. that's what i really am focusing on right now, because i'm quite happy with everything. is that what you'd like your legacy to be? i think legacy is a strange word, but if i'd like to continue living — like, my lifeline is so long, it goes all the way around, so it's like i'm going to live almost forever, live
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to at least 110, apparently. so what i'd like is the memory of me to live through — with art, and people... this place, when i die, will be a museum. the house that i'm doing at the moment will be an art museum for other people's art. i've got the art school that i've done, i've got the tears, i've got the foundation. because when i thought i was going to die, i thought, "oh, my god, am ijust going to be... "i don't want to be remembered as just being "a 1990s mediocre artist. i've got to do something. "i've got to make things better." and so that's all i've been doing since the cancer, and it's good for me too. your pain is clearly on display in your latest exhibition, i followed you to the end, on display at the white cube. and there's that one installation documenting your pulsing stoma. why was it important for you — clearly it was — to include that in your exhibition? i think that people don't understand what a stoma is. a stoma is part of your
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intestines that's twisted and made into a conduit for the urine to come out. so i thought... people just know that you have a bag, but they don't think much more of it. and i wanted people to see the bleeding. it looks like tears of blood. so i think a lot of us cry deeply inside. i think a lot of us cry tears of blood. and i think the world, at the moment, i think a lot of us are crying. there's a lot of tears and a lot of blood. and i think that that work also represents a feeling that a lot of people could relate to right now. what do you want the world to remember about dame tracey emin? i'd like people to think that i... well, it's quite obvious that i loved art and believed in art, and i was generous. yeah, i'd hate to die and people think i was mean.
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or i didn't have a sense of humour. that would be terrible. they laugh bbc 100 women's theme this year is resilience. looking back at your life, do you think resilience was something you needed more of in your youth, or later in life? i think, being a woman right now, we need as much resilience as we can have. and now, in america, women are losing their rights daily, daily, daily. women in iran are suffering. women in afghanistan are suffering. and for being women, for no other reason butjust being female. and i think now is the time where there has to be a greater unity and a greater resilience, and a greater fight for women in just achieving everything on a daily level. would you say there's been a time where resilience has saved you? yeah, 100%. i always say this thing. a lot of women have ships and boats named after them, but very few women own them. i own my own ship.
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by day. and once again, it is the coldest night of the winter so far. now lots of lying snow, particularly for the northern half of the uk. and there could be some issues with snow melt over the next few days or so as the air turns gradually milder from the north and the west. lots of flood warnings still in place. not too much rain falling out of the sky. it is going to be mostly dry, but other issues will include icy stretches and freezing fog. but this is the temperature anomaly map as we head through the next few days, so you can see marked in blue here on the map. this is where it's colder than average at the moment. then it turns milder and warmer across northern ireland scotland into sunday. eventually the milder air will push further southwards and eastwards for the start of next week, but it's a slow process. as we head through saturday, this cloud gradually pushes further eastwards, freezing fog patches across many parts of england and wales slow to lift and clear, reducing visibility on our roads. but a patchy light rain and drizzle into parts of western scotland, with the wind picking up for some irish sea coast but some sunshine later on in the day for northern ireland. sunny skies too, with
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the colder air further east, but again temperatures for many won't make it much past low single figures. and it stays cold too on saturday night into sunday. perhaps not quite as cold as on friday night, but temperatures still well below freezing for many, particularly towards the eastern half of the uk. for these western coasts it is turning milder. and if we just take a look at the pressure chart, you can see the high pressure gradually retreats further eastwards, taking the colder air with itjust allowing these weather fronts to introduce milder conditions across northern ireland and again for scotland this time on sunday, where temperatures will start to pick up. watch out for that snow melt though, of course. so the winds pick up towards the irish sea coast. there will be some outbreaks of rain pushing across the western isles into western scotland. further south, this is where we'll see the best of the sunshine, and temperatures here won't make it much past four or five celsius, but ten in western scotland, in northern ireland and towards south west england too, and that milder air will eventually win out, pushing further southwards and eastwards as we head through monday and tuesday.
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deadly wildfires continue to rage across los angeles. 11 people have been killed and more than 150,000 residents have been ordered to evacuate. la county officials say the suburbs look like they've been "hit by an atomic bomb". more than 55 square miles have burned. donald trump is sentenced in his new york hush—money case — he avoids jail but he'll become the first us president to serve as a convicted felon. hello, i'm carl nasman. firefighters are still battling to contain wildfires which have been raging across los angeles for four days. let's show you the latest pictures from the city. forecasters say more high winds are expected in the coming days, which could stoke an already perilous situation.
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