�* most mild night in the night. for most mild night but some frost around in parts of kent with those clear skies for the next few days high pressure is with us and will be feeding in a mild west wind across the uk. so some damp weather to north—west england, the north west midlands, staying cloudy for these areas. some breaks in the south—east of england with a good chance of some sunshine across northern and eastern scotland and those sunnier skies pushing into north—east england is the day by. some breaks around but for most mild day. forwednesday some breaks around but for most mild day. for wednesday some mist and fog patches could linger in places all day, high pressure right over the top of england and wales so the wind is lighter. the fog linger and wales so the wind is lighter. the fog lingering could lead to some places been quite cold but for most some bright or sunny spells around and temperatures in double figures. this

quite a spell is set to last through to the end of the week and the start of the weekend. but another by the front is coming through on sunday bringing some light rain to western areas. and if you want to continue watching the bbc news at ten, please turn over to bbc one or you can watch on iplayer. next it's newsnight. these former postmasters were all wrongly accused of theft or false accounting or short falls by the post office. this time last year, some of them appeared on newsnight to describe how the horizon it scandal wrecked their lives. they're back with us tonight to us what, if anything, has changed since then.

welcome to newsnight, brought to you live every week night from broadcasting house, with insights and interviews. just over a year ago, the itv drama mr bates versus the post office shone a light on the most widespread miscarriage ofjustice in british legal history. the horizon scandal saw the post office pursue more than 700 people and wrongly accuse them of theft, fraud and false accounting. between 1999 and 2015, it privately prosecuted hundreds of sub postmasters, based on fujitsu's faulty horizon computer software. once the drama was aired, it put pressue on the then conservative government, which announced onjanuary 10th 2024 that it would bring in new legislation to overturn wrongful convictions, as well as a new upfront payment of £75,000 for one particular group of postmasters known

as the glo group. that night, these former postmasters came on to newsnight and described how the scandal had wrecked their lives — from being publicly shamed in the communities where they ran their branches, to a loss of income, some lost their home, some had breakdowns. tonight, we put some of their cases to the post office minister, gareth thomas, who also tells newsnight that over 2,000 new claims for compensation have been made in the last month by people who believe they too were victims of the post office scandal. so, what has changed, if anything, for these people, in the 12 months since the tv drama led to public outrage at how they were treated? teju adedayo ran a post office between 1999 and 2005 in kent. auditors accused her of stealing £52,000.

she pleaded guilty in a magistrates court and was given a 50 weekjail term suspended for two years. teju had her conviction overturned in 2021. a post office has been injulie beisner�*s family in leicestershire since 18117. she ran hers between 1996 to 2021. she was accused of a shortfall of £1,970. the post office made her sign off the accounts before they allowed her to retire. shazia saddiq used to run three post offices in newcastle—upon—tyne. she says she "lost everything" as a result of being accused of crimes in 2013. she didn't face criminal prosecution, but she had to leave the area with her two young children after being assaulted in the street. chirag sidhpura's world was turned upside down when a post office auditor claimed there was a £57,000 discrepancy at his branch in farncombe in surrey. he found that sum to pay them back —

and then they sacked him for breach of contract. betty brown is the oldest victim of the post office scandal. she's here today on her 92nd birthday. betty and her husband spent more than £50,000 of their savings to cover the unexpected losses which started as soon as the horizon computer system was installed in her branch in county durham. in total she and her husband together were in the service of the post office for 76 years. welcome all of you. thank you to you for coming back. betty thank you for making your debut on newsnight on your birthday. since you were on newsnight 12 months ago, have you received compensation? ha. newsnight 12 months ago, have you received compensation? 140. no. no. received compensation? no. no. no. no. no.

received compensation? no. no. no. no- no- how— received compensation? no. no. no. no- no- how long — received compensation? no. no. no. no. no. how long have _ received compensation? no. no. no. no. no. how long have you _ received compensation? no. no. no. no. no. how long have you been - no. no. how long have you been waitin: no. no. how long have you been waiting for— no. no. how long have you been waiting for betty? i _ no. no. how long have you been waiting for betty? i have - no. no. how long have you been waiting for betty? i have been i waiting for betty? i have been waitin: waiting for betty? i have been waiting for— waiting for betty? i have been waiting for over _ waiting for betty? i have been waiting for over 26 _ waiting for betty? i have been waiting for over 26 years - waiting for betty? i have been waiting for over 26 years now| waiting for betty? i have been i waiting for over 26 years now for waiting for betty? i have been - waiting for over 26 years now for my compensation. forthe waiting for over 26 years now for my compensation. for the redress, all the money that they have stolen from me. and, when ever you sign a contract and accept your position as a sub postmaster, you're told that you are responsible for current losses and those losses are made immediately they're discovered. now, why are they not coming and giving us back the money immediately? now? not waiting 26 years for it. how us back the money immediately? now? not waiting 26 years for it.— not waiting 26 years for it. how do ou feel not waiting 26 years for it. how do you feel about _ not waiting 26 years for it. how do you feel about the _ not waiting 26 years for it. how do you feel about the fact _ not waiting 26 years for it. how do you feel about the fact that - not waiting 26 years for it. how do you feel about the fact that you - you feel about the fact that you have been waiting for so long? absolutely disgusted. furious. they

have no right to expect to treat people like this. they're paying big money to lawyers. that money belongs to sub postmasters. haifa money to lawyers. that money belongs to sub postmasters.— to sub postmasters. how do you feel about the fact _ to sub postmasters. how do you feel about the fact that _ to sub postmasters. how do you feel about the fact that you _ to sub postmasters. how do you feel about the fact that you still - about the fact that you still haven't received full compensation? as time goes on, we get older and olden _ as time goes on, we get older and olden it _ as time goes on, we get older and older. itjust seems as time goes on, we get older and older. it just seems to as time goes on, we get older and older. itjust seems to be that as time goes on, we get older and older. it just seems to be that they try to _ older. it just seems to be that they try to waste time and try to buy themselves more time. | try to waste time and try to buy themselves more time.- try to waste time and try to buy themselves more time. i feel like the 're themselves more time. i feel like they're just _ themselves more time. i feel like they're just being _ themselves more time. i feel like they're just being deliberately, i they're just being deliberately, 'ust they're just being deliberately, just difficult, _ they're just being deliberately, just difficult, to _ they're just being deliberately, just difficult, to deal— they're just being deliberately, just difficult, to deal with. i- they're just being deliberately, | just difficult, to deal with. i feel like a _ just difficult, to deal with. i feel like a prisoner— just difficult, to deal with. i feel like a prisoner of— just difficult, to deal with. i feel like a prisoner of them. - just difficult, to deal with. i feel like a prisoner of them. until. just difficult, to deal with. i feel like a prisoner of them. until i. like a prisoner of them. until i can't _ like a prisoner of them. until i can't heal_ like a prisoner of them. until i can't heal until— like a prisoner of them. until i can't heal until this _ like a prisoner of them. until i can't heal until this is - like a prisoner of them. until ii can't heal until this is resolved. like a prisoner of them. until i. can't heal until this is resolved. i think can't heal until this is resolved. think it is dreadful hearing people's experience. i would say with the compensation scheme, the horizon short fall scheme, i would liken it to someone who is trying to extract a tooth from a wriggling

alligator, using a piece of spaghetti. alligator, using a piece of spaghetti-— alligator, using a piece of s-aahetti. . , ., ' . spaghetti. that is how difficult it feels? yes. _ spaghetti. that is how difficult it feels? yes, it— spaghetti. that is how difficult it feels? yes, it is— spaghetti. that is how difficult it feels? yes, it is not— spaghetti. that is how difficult it feels? yes, it is not progress. . spaghetti. that is how difficult it feels? yes, it is not progress. if| feels? yes, it is not progress. if it is it feels? yes, it is not progress. if herb feels? yes, it is not progress. if it is it is very— feels? yes, it is not progress. if it is it is very slowly. _ feels? yes, it is not progress. if it is it is very slowly. you i feels? yes, it is not progress. if it is it is very slowly. you were l it is it is very slowly. you were here a year — it is it is very slowly. you were here a year ago, _ it is it is very slowly. you were here a year ago, how - it is it is very slowly. you were here a year ago, how do i it is it is very slowly. you were here a year ago, how do you i it is it is very slowly. you were i here a year ago, how do you feel? absolutely disgusting to start with. and also_ absolutely disgusting to start with. and also you feel how many hurdles do you _ and also you feel how many hurdles do you have — and also you feel how many hurdles do you have to go over before they come _ do you have to go over before they come to— do you have to go over before they come to a — do you have to go over before they come to a conclusion? and it is not fair, _ come to a conclusion? and it is not fair, because— come to a conclusion? and it is not fair, because we are all getting old. fair, because we are all getting old~ we — fair, because we are all getting old. we are not getting any younger. this has— old. we are not getting any younger. this has to _ old. we are not getting any younger. this has to come to a close at some point _ this has to come to a close at some point and _ this has to come to a close at some point and they need to do a redress as soon— point and they need to do a redress as soon as — point and they need to do a redress as soon as possible. we point and they need to do a redress as soon as possible.— point and they need to do a redress as soon as possible. we are going to hear for of your— as soon as possible. we are going to hear for of your stories _ as soon as possible. we are going to hear for of your stories through i hear for of your stories through programme. ok, well let's pause for a moment to see what has happened regarding the post office scandal over the last 12 months. the computer system the post office spent an arm and a leg on is faulty.

systematic abuse — just let those words sink in — by the government—owned, the taxpayer—owned post office. i can announce that we will introduce new primary legislation to make sure that those convicted as a result of the horizon scandal are swiftly exonerated and compensated. they were only going to give you 20% of the claim. that's what it came back at. and, you know, i'd been warned that not to expect very much, but i was just gobsmacked. anything to say at all to the people who suffered so greatly? the post office... excuse me. i'm incredibly sorry that that happened to those people i and to so many others. do you think you're the unluckiest ceo in the united kingdom? i was too trusting. well, look, we made a commitment in relation to this compensation and we will keep to that commitment. i wrote to the prime minister about a month ago. - people have been waiting far too long — over 20 odd years. - there's over 70 have

died along the way. i the government says as of january 3rd this year, around £591; million has been paid out to 3,800 claimants across four compensation schemes. let 's look at some of the reasons you think you haven't received what you think you haven't received what you believe you are owned. you did receive an offer. tell us about that? i receive an offer. tell us about that? ., , ., , that? i saw there was an independent financial, forensic _ that? i saw there was an independent financial, forensic accountant - that? i saw there was an independent financial, forensic accountant and i financial, forensic accountant and medical team who composed a report. i had no input in this whatsoever. everything that they asked me, all the questions and documents, were provided on time. yet on 31st i got an offer of 10% of the claim. provided on time. yet on 31st i got an offer of 1096 of the claim.- an offer of 1096 of the claim. 1096? yes. is an offer of 1096 of the claim. 1096? yes- is there _

an offer of 1096 of the claim. 1096? yes. is there any _ an offer of 1096 of the claim. 1096? yes. is there any explanation i an offer of 1096 of the claim. 1096? yes. is there any explanation why| an offer of 1096 of the claim. 1096? | yes. is there any explanation why it is 'ust1096 yes. is there any explanation why it is just 10% of _ yes. is there any explanation why it is just 1096 of the _ yes. is there any explanation why it isjust1096 of the claim? _ yes. is there any explanation why it isjust1096 of the claim? i - yes. is there any explanation why it isjust1096 of the claim? i haven't l isjust1096 of the claim? i haven't had an opportunity _ isjust1096 of the claim? i haven't had an opportunity to _ isjust1096 of the claim? i haven't had an opportunity to meet i isjust1096 of the claim? i haven't had an opportunity to meet with l isjust1096 of the claim? i haven't l had an opportunity to meet with my legal team, had an opportunity to meet with my legalteam, but had an opportunity to meet with my legal team, but i will be asking exactly that question. because this was done independent of me. this wasn't me, i had no input in the figure that was submitted. i assisted with with the application. it did take a year to get the application sort of... but those independent — application sort of... but those independent forensic _ application sort of... but those i independent forensic accountants and experts, fulfilled all the criteria? yes. �* experts, fulfilled all the criteria? yes. , yes. and can i ask you in pounds what is 1096 _ yes. and can i ask you in pounds what is 1096 of _ yes. and can i ask you in pounds what is 1096 of your _ yes. and can i ask you in pounds what is 1096 of your claim - yes. and can i ask you in pounds what is 1096 of your claim worth. | yes. and can i ask you in pounds i what is 1096 of your claim worth. you couldn't buy — what is 1096 of your claim worth. you couldn't buy a _ what is 10% of your claim worth. ym. couldn't buy a decent car with it. what about you?— couldn't buy a decent car with it. what about you? well, i haven't put a claim in- — what about you? well, i haven't put a claim in- you _ what about you? well, i haven't put a claim in. you haven't? _ what about you? well, i haven't put a claim in. you haven't? no, - what about you? well, i haven't put. a claim in. you haven't? no, because my lawyers — a claim in. you haven't? no, because my lawyers wrote _ a claim in. you haven't? no, because my lawyers wrote to _ a claim in. you haven't? no, because my lawyers wrote to them _ a claim in. you haven't? no, because my lawyers wrote to them for - a claim in. you haven't? no, because my lawyers wrote to them for the i my lawyers wrote to them for the forensic _ my lawyers wrote to them for the forensic accountant that needs to work— forensic accountant that needs to work on — forensic accountant that needs to work on the paperwork. and they haven't— work on the paperwork. and they haven't paid the lawyers' fee, the forensic— haven't paid the lawyers' fee, the forensic accountant. to

haven't paid the lawyers' fee, the forensic accountant.— forensic accountant. to explain, what happens — forensic accountant. to explain, what happens is _ forensic accountant. to explain, what happens is you _ forensic accountant. to explain, what happens is you have i forensic accountant. to explain, what happens is you have to i forensic accountant. to explain, i what happens is you have to employ forensic accountants, because it is so blooming complicated and they have to do back over years of documentation and you have to get preauthorisation to pay for those experts, whether it is the forensic accountant or a psychiatric expert and they have to wait for that before they do the work. and you're not at that point? ida. before they do the work. and you're not at that point?— not at that point? no, because they have not released _ not at that point? no, because they have not released the _ not at that point? no, because they have not released the fund - not at that point? no, because they have not released the fund to i have not released the fund to instruct — have not released the fund to instruct the experts.- have not released the fund to instruct the experts. what about ou? instruct the experts. what about you? what _ instruct the experts. what about you? what have _ instruct the experts. what about you? what have you _ instruct the experts. what about you? what have you been i instruct the experts. what about i you? what have you been offered? i got made an offer which was just probably— got made an offer which was just prohahlyiust _ got made an offer which was just probablyjust over— got made an offer which was just probablyjust over 10%_ got made an offer which was just probablyjust over 10% of- got made an offer which was just probablyjust over 10% of my i got made an offer which was just . probablyjust over 10% of my initial claim _ probably 'ust over 1096 of my initial claim. �* ., probably 'ust over 1096 of my initial claim. ~ ., ., , probably 'ust over 1096 of my initial claim. ., ., , , claim. again can i ask what this is in pounds- _ claim. again can i ask what this is in pounds- the — claim. again can i ask what this is in pounds. the original _ claim. again can i ask what this is in pounds. the original claim i claim. again can i ask what this is in pounds. the original claim was| in pounds. the original claim was about 1.6 million. _ in pounds. the original claim was about 1.6 million. due _ in pounds. the original claim was about 1.6 million. due to - in pounds. the original claim was about 1.6 million. due to the i in pounds. the original claim was i about 1.6 million. due to the amount of losses— about 1.6 million. due to the amount of losses that — about 1.6 million. due to the amount of losses that i — about 1.6 million. due to the amount of losses that i occurred. _ about 1.6 million. due to the amount of losses that i occurred. taking, i. of losses that i occurred. taking, i had been — of losses that i occurred. taking, i had been working _ of losses that i occurred. taking, i had been working on _ of losses that i occurred. taking, i had been working on my— of losses that i occurred. taking, i had been working on my own - of losses that i occurred. taking, ii had been working on my own claim, of losses that i occurred. taking, i- had been working on my own claim, so i had done _

had been working on my own claim, so i had done all— had been working on my own claim, so i had done all my— had been working on my own claim, so i had done all my paperwork— had been working on my own claim, so i had done all my paperwork myself. i i had done all my paperwork myself. but i have _ i had done all my paperwork myself. but i have got— i had done all my paperwork myself. but i have got factual— i had done all my paperwork myself. but i have got factual figures- i had done all my paperwork myself. but i have got factual figures from . but i have got factual figures from my tills_ but i have got factual figures from my tills and — but i have got factual figures from my tills and data _ but i have got factual figures from my tills and data from _ but i have got factual figures from my tills and data from my- but i have got factual figures from my tills and data from my trading i my tills and data from my trading statements— my tills and data from my trading statements from _ my tills and data from my trading statements from the _ my tills and data from my trading statements from the post - my tills and data from my trading statements from the post office i my tills and data from my trading i statements from the post office as evidence — statements from the post office as evidence and _ statements from the post office as evidence. and they _ statements from the post office as evidence. and they still... - statements from the post office as evidence. and they still... they - evidence. and they still... they 'ust evidence. and they still... they just don't— evidence. and they still... they just don't want _ evidence. and they still... they just don't want to _ evidence. and they still... they just don't want to look - evidence. and they still... they just don't want to look at - evidence. and they still... they just don't want to look at the i just don't want to look at the evidence _ just don't want to look at the evidence that _ just don't want to look at the evidence that is _ just don't want to look at the evidence that is there. - just don't want to look at the evidence that is there. theyi just don't want to look at the - evidence that is there. they seem to try and _ evidence that is there. they seem to try and went— evidence that is there. they seem to try and want more _ evidence that is there. they seem to try and want more and _ evidence that is there. they seem to try and want more and more. - evidence that is there. they seem to try and want more and more. [5- evidence that is there. they seem to try and want more and more.- try and want more and more. is that not fair enough _ try and want more and more. is that not fair enough that _ try and want more and more. is that not fair enough that they _ try and want more and more. is that not fair enough that they want - try and want more and more. is that not fair enough that they want more j not fair enough that they want more evidence, because after all at the moment it is public money that is being paid in financial redress. julie, do you think it is fair they ask for the evidence. he julie, do you think it is fair they ask for the evidence.— julie, do you think it is fair they ask for the evidence. no they didn't do that when _ ask for the evidence. no they didn't do that when they _ ask for the evidence. no they didn't do that when they took _ ask for the evidence. no they didn't do that when they took these - ask for the evidence. no they didn't| do that when they took these people to court, theyjust said you're guilty. that is where it is so unfair and wrong.— guilty. that is where it is so unfair and wrong. guilty. that is where it is so unfairandwronu. . , . ., . unfair and wrong. what situation are ou in? unfair and wrong. what situation are you in? i'm — unfair and wrong. what situation are you in? i'm still— unfair and wrong. what situation are you in? i'm still waiting _ unfair and wrong. what situation are you in? i'm still waiting for- unfair and wrong. what situation are you in? i'm still waiting for an - you in? i'm still waiting for an offer. they're _ you in? i'm still waiting for an offer. they're asking - you in? i'm still waiting for an offer. they're asking for - you in? i'm still waiting for an offer. they're asking for more information.— information. does it feel like ou're information. does it feel like you're in _ information. does it feel like you're in limbo? _ information. does it feel like you're in limbo? it _ information. does it feel like you're in limbo? it does. - information. does it feel like - you're in limbo? it does. they're not straight _ you're in limbo? it does. they're not straight forward _ you're in limbo? it does. they're not straight forward forms. - you're in limbo? it does. they're not straight forward forms. the | not straight forward forms. the questions, they're legal questions,

the way they're phrased and it is just, it is spending time answering these questions and they already know the answers. it is almost like they're trying to set a trap. do you agree? they're trying to set a trap. do you a . ree? . . they're trying to set a trap. do you auree? . . . ., , they're trying to set a trap. do you auree? . . . . , , agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested- for — agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. for me, _ agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. for me, it _ agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. for me, it feels _ agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. for me, it feels like - agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. for me, it feels like i'm - agree? yeah, we are certainly being tested. for me, it feels like i'm in i tested. for me, it feels like i'm in a reel— tested. for me, it feels like i'm in a real life — tested. for me, it feels like i'm in a real life squid game. i'm being tested, _ a real life squid game. i'm being tested, we — a real life squid game. i'm being tested, we are being pitted against each other. there is a common theme, but we _ each other. there is a common theme, but we are _ each other. there is a common theme, but we are not— each other. there is a common theme, but we are not on a level playing field _ but we are not on a level playing field. �* , but we are not on a level playing field. �* y , ., but we are not on a level playing field. �* y i. . . but we are not on a level playing field. �* y . . field. betty, you received an offer that was 2996 _ field. betty, you received an offer that was 2996 of _ field. betty, you received an offer that was 2996 of your _ field. betty, you received an offer that was 2996 of your claim. - field. betty, you received an offer that was 2996 of your claim. what| field. betty, you received an offer i that was 2996 of your claim. what did that was 29% of your claim. what did you think when they offered that? i you think when they offered that? i thought this is a joke. this is a sickjoke. anyone who sends out an offer like that, only tells you one thing, we have no intention of paying you. we delay it we delay it and we delay it. we are known

throughout the world as post office victims. we are now being revictimised. for no reason. we have been through all the courts, we are innocent people. they don't need more evidence. all our evidence is there. stop all the nonsense, all this whitewash, all this... dilly dahlying and get us paid each and everyone of us. because that is what we deserve. we don't deserve to be treated like this. item we deserve. we don't deserve to be treated like this.— treated like this. can i ask you, be , treated like this. can i ask you, betty. have _ treated like this. can i ask you, betty. have you _ treated like this. can i ask you, betty, have you ever _ treated like this. can i ask you, betty, have you ever felt - treated like this. can i ask you, betty, have you ever felt that l betty, have you ever felt that maybe, i don't want to put words in your mouth, does it feel 1404 00:15:45,125 --> 00:15:4