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tv   BBC News  BBC News  January 23, 2025 11:00am-11:31am GMT

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i'm sarah campbell in liverpool. where families have been gathering throughout the morning for the sentencing on axel rudakubana is to be sentenced today for the murders of three young girls in southport. we will be here throughout the sentencing to bring you all the live latest news from inside liverpool crown court. and i'm catherine byaruhanga in london. in other news... the met office has issued a red weather warning covering northern ireland and parts of scotland as storm eowyn approaches, warning of gusts of up to 100mph, and a �*danger to life'. president trump sends 1,500 troops to the us—mexico border, in a move — he says — to crack down on illegal immigration.
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and the wait is nearly over. we look at some of the frontrunners of this year's oscar nominations. we are here at liverpool crown court for what will be a significant day for all the families whose children were caught up in the attacks in southport injuly of last year. southport in july of last year. and also potentially a difficult day. the judge will shortly head into court and he will hear remarks from the prosecution detailing the events ofjuly 29 last year in southport when the then 17—year—old axel rudakubana 17—year—old axel rudaku ba na entered 17—year—old axel rudakubana entered a taylor swift themed
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dance class and started indiscriminately attacking the young girls in there, leading to the deaths of three of them, alice da silva aguiar, who was aged nine, bebe king who was aged nine, bebe king who was aged six and elsie dot stancombe who was aged seven. theirfamilies aren't he —— are here. they were not here on monday when the murderess in surprise admitted his guilt, and admitted to ten attempted murder charges. the families were not in court to hear that on monday, but they are here today. with the background, we have this report. six—year—old bebe king, elsie dot stancombe, who was seven and nine—year—old alice da silva aguiar, murdered in southport last summer in a tragedy that led to a wave of sympathy and sadness. southport is a small seaside town. everyone here has a connection
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to someone who was at a dance class at the beginning of the summer holidays. sarah was hoping her daughter would be there. it filled up very, very quickly as of course it would do, so niamh was down on the waiting list. but she wasn't there and i guess i will be forever grateful for that, but also absolutely devastated that there are young people who are not here. and thatjust does not seem fair. axel rudakubana was arrested with the weapon in his hand, but refused to admit he carried out the attack. but then, this monday, with the trial about to start, he told his lawyers he was changing his plea. as well as the murders, he admitted trying to kill eight other children and two adults. possession of the knife, manufacturing the bio toxic agent ricin and downloading an al-qaeda training manual, which is terror offence. it is clear that this was a young man with the sickening and sustained interest in death and violence. he has shown no
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signs of remorse. whether axel rudakubana could have been stopped will be the focus of a public inquiry. nick garnett, bbc news. throughout the day, we will have reporters inside court who will be bringing us live updates, you can follow those here, on the bbc news website as well. inside court, things arejust developing. as well. inside court, things are just developing. there are lots of people that want to get into the courtroom, notjust the families of those who were killed, there were many more families involved, the girls who are in their dance class with them. there are a lot of people who want to be in there to see the person that has ultimately changed all of their lives. let's go to our correspondent. a really
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monumental state for the families and a difficult date because what they are likely to hear. it is really tough, because as you say there are the families of the three girls who were killed, the eight girls that there were injured, the two adults where there was also attempted murder. in the two adults where there was also attempted murder.- also attempted murder. in the class, also attempted murder. in the class. all— also attempted murder. in the class, all witnessed _ also attempted murder. in the class, all witnessed terrible i class, all witnessed terrible things in as much as the prosecution has said we will learn today the true horrors of what happened in a dance class, it has been described to me as truly horrific. clearly, not every detail is going to be given. people will be shocked again by quite how bad this crime was. axel rudakubana was less than 18, he was nine days short of being 18 when he committed this crime, so the sentence he gets will be nothing like the sentence that he would have got if he was an
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adult, i think that will also cause distress.— adult, i think that will also cause distress. . ~ , ., cause distress. take us through the process- — cause distress. take us through the process. this _ cause distress. take us through the process. this is _ cause distress. take us through the process. this is a _ the process. this is a sentencing hearing. we did not have a child because he admitted his guilt on monday, so that took away. what is the process in finding out how long that sentencing will be? first of all i that sentencing will be? first of all i think— that sentencing will be? first of all i think there _ that sentencing will be? first of all i think there is - that sentencing will be? first of all i think there is relief i of all i think there is relief at the police and prosecution service that the families will not have to endure a full trial. there was a concern that the raw details of what happened being laid out bit by bit in court would cause huge distress. i think people are pleased he adds pleaded guilty. because of that, the process is quite simple today. there will be a brief outline of the facts by the prosecution counsel, he will briefly go through what happened that day and what axel rudakubana did that meant that he pled guilty to three murders, eight attempted
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murders, eight attempted murders, possession of documents for terrorists and possession of a knife and producing the biological toxin ricin. that will last about an hour. some cctv footage will be played of axel rudakubana on the day. we don't know what but it will be played, but some of it will be played, but some of it shows him on hisjourney towards a dance class. i know there is really awful cctv footage in existence that showed what happened when the police arrived. it is not clear if that will be played in court today. once that case has been outlined, within an hour or so, the prosecution will outline what the normal sentencing would be in this situation, but this is an abnormal case, so we don't really know where this will fit. he won't get life sentence, but quite how the sentencing is is not clear, we don't think that a possible reduction in the sentencing will be a big part of the day.
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thejudge will make will be a big part of the day. the judge will make his remarks, he will sum up the case on what axel rudakubana did and will pass sentence. that will be on camera and people will be able to watch what he said live on television, listen to it live on radio and you'll be able to see edited version of that on tv and online later. he cannot pass the whole life order which means someone will not leave prison because he was under 18 when he committed the crime. what we will be waiting to hear is how many decades he will have the same prison before he can be considered by parole boards. ., can be considered by parole boards. . ., , boards. there are many horrifying _ boards. there are many horrifying and _ boards. there are many - horrifying and extraordinary aspects to this case and have been since monday and his admission of guilt and more information came out into the public domain which had not until now. just take us through, we know there will be a public inquiry into what
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happened. perhaps how he could have been prevented from doing what he ultimately went on to do. and also, the home secretary talking about how legislation around knives and how easy it is to get hold of knives needs to be tightened. there are some things that can be done straightaway without public inquiry. definitely it is obvious that he bought many of the things that he used in the crime and other things that he had done, that he bought for example, the ricin seeds, he bought on amazon. immediate controls could be tightened on online retailers. frankly it is illegal to sell anyone under 18 a knife, whether online retailer or not. but that has happened in this case. axel rudakubana actually bought two knives and he bought them on amazon, the most famous online retailer of all. the government is bringing forward what is directly being discussed, which is a further tightening of the rules of the selling of knives
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online. that will be a 2—step authentication process. whether that can really stop young people buying knives online is unclear and of course, young people can grab knives on their parents's kitchen drawers as well. the results are not going to stop these kinds of atrocities completely. the public inquiry will be looking into what public bodies knew about his obsession with violence and what more could have been done potentially to stop it. in there, there are two critical elements. one that is known as the counter extremism prevention programme. the material he was looking at online to do with school massacres and mass violence. they decided that because he did not have ideology, it was not for them. but if it is not for them, who is it for? they will be looking at that. also the mental health services and children's services because
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while prevent did not take him on, other people were aware. there is an ongoing question for police, particularly in lancashire because they were being called to the home, being asked to help, were they doing enough to make sure this young man did not become more and more caught up in this world of violence? . , ., , violence? our uk affairs correspondent. - violence? our uk affairs correspondent. for- violence? our uk affairs correspondent. for the l violence? our uk affairs - correspondent. for the moment, thank you. a reminder that we have colleagues inside the court that will be filing information letting us know what is going on. that is in the initial part of the sentencing. when the judge the initial part of the sentencing. when thejudge is at his point where he makes remarks and his decision on sentencing, he will be on camera we can bring you that live on bbc news. some detail there from daniel on the sentence that the perpetrator could be expected to face. let's get a little more detail on that.
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joining me now is dr gabrielle watson, who is a criminal sentencing expert at edinburgh law school. and oxford university. just take us through what the judge will take into account when he formulates and decides which sentence is appropriate. qm. formulates and decides which sentence is appropriate. 0k, we know that _ sentence is appropriate. 0k, we know that on — sentence is appropriate. 0k, we know that on monday, _ sentence is appropriate. ok, we know that on monday, axel- know that on monday, axel rudakubana was advised by the justice that a life sentence equivalent was inevitable. today, thejudge is like primary sentencing reference will be the sentencing act 2020, schedule 2021. we know the defendant was nine days short of his 18th birthday when he committed these offences, said the sentence he will
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receive is referred to as detention during his majesty's pleasure, somewhat euphemistically. that's a length of time the offender must spend in prison before he is considered for release by the parole board. and the act, the parole board. and the act, the sentence act 2020 tells judges how to set the term that perpetrators must serve before release. we know that in a case involving two or more murders, by the vendor aged 18, the starting point is 30 years. —— defender. if that defender was age 17, as axel rudakubana was at the time of the events, that is reduced to 27 years. that sentence is likely to be increased by the judge. sentence is likely to be increased by thejudge. to sentence is likely to be increased by the judge. to take into account various aggravating factors. for example, a significant degree of planning and premeditation.
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and the fact that axel rudakubana's victims were rudaku ba na's victims were children rudakubana's victims were children and therefore especially vulnerable. the sentencing judge will also take into account a number of attempted murders that axel rudakubana has admitted to. the fact that an offender suffered from any form of mental disorder or disability can be a mitigating factor in sentencing. but defence lawyers confirmed on monday they would not be submitting a psychiatric report on the defendant's behalf, as would happen before a defender was sent to a secure hospital. however, there is considerable material about the defendant's mental health that is likely to be submitted before the court. we also know that any previous incidents may be relevant. and it is worth noting finally the effect of the late guilty plea. typically
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offenders will be entitled to a reduction of some kind on their sentence when they enter a guilty plea, but we know that in law, the maximum reduction for a guilty plea entered at the start of a murder trial is one 20th. for example, two years after a minimum term of 40 years after a minimum term of a0 years. it would be unwise of me to predict precisely how the judge will proceed today. but thatis judge will proceed today. but that is an outline. {iii judge will proceed today. but that is an outline.— that is an outline. of course. sorry to _ that is an outline. of course. sorry to interrupt _ that is an outline. of course. sorry to interrupt you, - that is an outline. of course. sorry to interrupt you, i - that is an outline. of course. sorry to interrupt you, i just| sorry to interrupt you, i just wanted to ask how much things like the cps saying on monday that he had shown no remorse, is that the kind of aspect that the judge will take into account? thejudge will take into account? it the judge will take into account?— the judge will take into account? it is possible. typically. _ account? it is possible. typically. if _ account? it is possible. typically. if a _ account? it is possible. | typically, if a defendant account? it is possible. - typically, if a defendant shows remorse, they might be entitled to all that might be treated as a mitigating factor, in other
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words it might reduce the sentence. but the fact that we know that so far axel rudakubana as shown no remorse whatsoever, it is unlikely to feature in this particular sentencing calculation. ok. i would like — sentencing calculation. ok. i would like you _ sentencing calculation. ok. i would like you to _ sentencing calculation. ok. i would like you to stay - sentencing calculation. ok. i would like you to stay with i sentencing calculation. ok. i. would like you to stay with us, doctor, if you wouldn't mind, but i would like to bring in another guest as we await the sentencing hearing of axel rudakubana to begin here in the crown court at liverpool. i would like to speak to a counsellor from southport, indeed group in the street where the attack happened. counsellor thank you for joining us here on bbc news today, no doubt a difficult day, not of course for those directly involved only, but for the community as a whole. absolutely. and especially for those — absolutely. and especially for those who were directly involved. i cannot imagine the trauma — involved. i cannot imagine the trauma they are going to at the
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moment — trauma they are going to at the moment. , , . ~ trauma they are going to at the moment. , , ., ,, , ., moment. just take us through, if ou moment. just take us through, if you can. _ moment. just take us through, if you can. how— moment. just take us through, if you can, how the _ moment. just take us through, if you can, how the community| if you can, how the community has come together since that attack on that lastjuly day, such a trauma for the entire community and how has it coped? how have people pull together? ithink— how have people pull together? i think many visual displays of solidarity— i think many visual displays of solidarity and looking after each — solidarity and looking after each other. from the outpouring of flowers — each other. from the outpouring of flowers and teddy is at the scene — of flowers and teddy is at the scene and in the town centre. through— scene and in the town centre. through to people checking in more — through to people checking in more on — through to people checking in more on each other and looking after_ more on each other and looking after each — more on each other and looking after each other throughout the sort of— after each other throughout the sort of initial attacks and what _ sort of initial attacks and what came afterwards. you mentioned _ what came afterwards. you mentioned what _ what came afterwards. ym. mentioned what happened afterwards. it seems like such afterwards. it seems like such a long time ago now, doesn't it? but the day after the killings themselves, as a community was trying to come to terms with what had happened,
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and then obviously the riots sparked in southport when a mask was attacked and then further around the country, how difficult was that for the community to cope with that on top of the horrendous event that already occurred? i think no one expected _ that already occurred? i think no one expected stuff - that already occurred? i think no one expected stuff like - that already occurred? i thinkl no one expected stuff like that happen — no one expected stuff like that happen in southport, especially around — happen in southport, especially around the area. as i said earlier, _ around the area. as i said earlier, it _ around the area. as i said earlier, it is where i grew up. it earlier, it is where i grew up. it was — earlier, it is where i grew up. it was a — earlier, it is where i grew up. it was a quiet and peaceful place — it was a quiet and peaceful place to— it was a quiet and peaceful place to grow up, with a strong of community. i am extremely proud — of community. i am extremely proud of— of community. i am extremely proud of the reaction afterwards of southport, of the people — afterwards of southport, of the people here, coming out to clear— people here, coming out to clear up— people here, coming out to clear up after the damage was done, — clear up after the damage was done, but _ clear up after the damage was done, but yes, it wasn't unwanted disruption when people were grieving the brutal loss of those _ were grieving the brutal loss of those three little girls. and — of those three little girls. and six— of those three little girls. and six months on, how are things in southport? i and six months on, how are things in southport?- things in southport? i think still, there _ things in southport? i think still, there is _ things in southport? i think still, there is a _ things in southport? i think still, there is a sense - things in southport? i think still, there is a sense of. still, there is a sense of shellshock. there are still people _ shellshock. there are still
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people who i think have a sense of anxiety— people who i think have a sense of anxiety around what happened. but the community has come _ happened. but the community has come together, like i said, and once _ come together, like i said, and once again, i am extremely proud — once again, i am extremely proud to— once again, i am extremely proud to have been born and raised — proud to have been born and raised in _ proud to have been born and raised in southport and the way the community has reacted and looked — the community has reacted and looked after each other, everyone seems to be checking in on _ everyone seems to be checking in on each _ everyone seems to be checking in on each other and, yes, i am very— in on each other and, yes, i am very proud— in on each other and, yes, i am very proud of the reaction of our community.— very proud of the reaction of our community. how possible is it to move _ our community. how possible is it to move on. _ our community. how possible is it to move on, if— our community. how possible is it to move on, if you _ our community. how possible is it to move on, if you like, - it to move on, if you like, from today? how important is the sentencing? does that help to draw a line for the community and perhaps move forward? i community and perhaps move forward? ., ., , ., forward? i am not sure that there is anything _ forward? i am not sure that there is anything that - forward? i am not sure that there is anything that can . forward? i am not sure that i there is anything that can draw a line. — there is anything that can draw a line, especially for the families directly impacted, this— families directly impacted, this is— families directly impacted, this is something that they and the community will have to live with. _ the community will have to live with. i— the community will have to live with, i don't think there is ever— with, idon't think there is ever truly— with, i don't think there is ever truly a way to draw a line under—
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ever truly a way to draw a line under such— ever truly a way to draw a line under such horrific and barbaric— under such horrific and barbaric attacks. i think it is change. _ barbaric attacks. i think it is change, people have realised how important it is to take care — how important it is to take care of— how important it is to take care of each other.- how important it is to take care of each other. and that is something _ care of each other. and that is something positive. _ care of each other. and that is something positive. we i care of each other. and that is something positive. we have. something positive. we have spoken to lots of people in southport, and there does seem to be a sense of community, which after what happened, is quite incredible in such a credit to the town.- credit to the town. yes. community _ credit to the town. yes. community is _ credit to the town. yes. i community is everything. credit to the town. yes. - community is everything. when i think— community is everything. when i think about community and the ability— think about community and the ability to— think about community and the ability to look after each other— ability to look after each other and support each other, that— other and support each other, that is— other and support each other, that is the _ other and support each other, that is the most important thing. _ that is the most important thing, absolutely.- thing, absolutely. sean, a counsellor _ thing, absolutely. sean, a counsellor from _ thing, absolutely. sean, a| counsellor from southport. thing, absolutely. sean, a i counsellor from southport. we are counsellorfrom southport. we are taking you live to the sentencing of the murder of three children last year by axel rudakubana. he is inside
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the court, the court is gathering, we are awaiting the start of the sentencing period, this of course after he pled guilty to all their charges on monday. he arrived in court just after nine o'clock this morning. he is now 18 years old. he was 17 at the time of the killings. that was at the end ofjuly, july 29 last year. the families were not in court on monday to hear him plead guilty, as you may remember, it was a day that was supposed to be the beginning of what was thought to be a full week trial. it was a time forjury selection. but then in a surprise move, he asked to speak to his counsel and indicated that he would plead guilty, this after months of saying nothing. as the crown prosecution said afterwards, he
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also showed no remorse. it has given time for the families to digest what happened and they are here, the families of the three girls who were killed and also the families of the eight other children who were stabbed. the two adults who were involved, who came to their aid and also, the families of some of the other children who were there. this was a taylor swift dance themed pass. it was right at the beginning of the summer holidays. it was a class that was overbooked, people had tried to get into and this is where the horrific events of july 29 happen this year. —— last year. let's go back to gabrielle watson, a sentencing expert from university of oxford. we are waiting for the court to get under way, as you know with things do get delayed and there are lots of families
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who want to be in possession, want to be there to hear axel rudakubana being sentenced. rudaku ba na being sentenced. just rudakubana being sentenced. just remind us again what the judge will be considering as he comes to that sentence and particularly, what is crucial is the fact that he was 17. very short of his 18th birthday on the day he committed the murders, but that is crucial when it comes to the sentencing. when it comes to the sentencina. ~ , ,., , , sentencing. absolutely. it is worth noting _ sentencing. absolutely. it is worth noting very _ sentencing. absolutely. it is worth noting very briefly i sentencing. absolutely. it is| worth noting very briefly that the effect and practice of this very late guilty plea was entered on monday. this might be viewed in some way as a secret blessing for the families and community, what it does is expedites the criminal process, the trial has been abandoned. there is no need to assemble the jury or for the prosecution to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt, he stands convicted of these offences and prick seeds
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straight to sentencing. as the sentencing, the justice
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