which has become very popular very quickly and is changing the chinese app says it was developed at a fraction ripples through silicon valley and raised concerns ripples through silicon valley and raised concerns about censorship. about censorship. to understand more about all of the issues this raises, we've been speaking to shirin ghaffary, ai reporter with bloomberg. reporter with bloomberg. so deepseek is a chinese ai so deepseek is a chinese ai start—up that until recently start—up that until recently had a pretty low profile, especially to those you know, a model that can had a pretty low profile, especially to those in the west. in the west. and it released a new ai model earlier this month that was surprisingly good. that was surprisingly good. it says that it is competitive it says that it is competitive with some of the leading us with some of the leading us

and european ai companies. so we're talking about, so we're talking about, you know, a model that can perform as well or better on evaluations in things like math and general knowledge, compared to the technology of companies like openai. so this was a game—changer, set off a frenzy, both excitement and sort of panic, about how this could challenge western technology. so, yes, it had this huge impact this week. people listening and watching will probably be aware of that. but what did you make of the way it was covered in the media? i think that, you know, for me, here in san francisco, as an ai reporter, i'm paying very close attention to ai products from all over the world. so it was a little bit less surprising, maybe, to some ai insiders, i had heard about deepseek. i knew that their models were getting better and better, and it was, i think, kind ofan "aha!" moment for the rest of the world of how quickly chinese tech is catching up. and i think we sort of saw this be the first time that it was like a reality

check for major media in the us, in europe, in the uk, to say, "yes, we have serious competition here." but has there been, do you think, enough scepticism on what deepseek claims it's done? i mean, tech founder palmer luckey told fox news, "useful idiots in the us media" "have fallen for chinese propaganda" about this story. "useful idiots in the us media" "have fallen for chinese propaganda" about this story. yes, um, because obviously we're dealing with a very different media landscape in china, there's still a lot of mystery about deepseek. people are questioning everything about it, basically. its costs, how it was trained, how much, or whether it has taken materials from us tech companies and western tech companies.

ok, so you say there has been scepticism, what about the anxiety around it? absolutely. as my beat, you know, over a year and a half ago, the dominating question about al is, are we in a bubble? right? _ for this moment when we might see the ai bubble burst, and some people love to think that deepseek could be that. i don't know if... i think it is too soon to say. we did see stock prices fall in the tech market. we saw, you know, drastic decreases in the nasdaq, etc. and i think the question

will be, is deepseek truly as good as it claims to be, or is it costing more are they leaning more than they're letting please do stay with us, but i want to bring in the uk and europe. but when it comes to deepseek, catherine, and welcome about in china this week? hi, yeah, thanks for having me. and joy and vindication. the lunar new year holiday, that everyone around them i sorry to interrupt. yes, sure.

can't be stopped. effort and to hold china back in a tech competition - with the us. so there's all sorts - of different sentiment there. you very much. but do stay with us, because all of the issues that tiktok has links to china.

its parent company, bytedance, is chinese. clear what will happen next. in washington, was really twofold — security concerns let's understand that further with ciaran martin, of government and a former head of cyber security at uk intelligence agency gchq. professor martin, thank you very much forjoining us. we've referenced so far in the programme does pose

hardware, software, different products and services. and strategically, what's been going on with deepseek, of the day, however important it may be, however popular, is a social media app and not really on a par but, as we've been hearing from kathrin, i think one in some murky way? or did they develop them themselves? we don't really know the answer to that and it's profoundly

important as to whether, in effect, they've cheated that really matters. and just explain why chips, actually having those chips and accessible ai? to process, they are the thing that ai will depend on. like deepseek without. .. models, you can't do any of this stuff without access to chips. president biden, in a systematic way to deny china access to, in effect, as i think kathrin was saying, but that's what we've seen this week, however murky the details of how it came to pass.

so however they got the chips, they do have the chips. and what about the argument that we've heard in washington able to access? there's a lot in that, and it's a legitimate concern of the americans and other westerners. a lot of data. and it seems that deepseek's terms of service are very permissive in terms of what it will collect. tiktok, i think there are weak arguments for banning it the weak argument is data security. the data security model for social media apps is so broken everywhere

in the world that if you ban the...the digital world is so awash with western they'll get it some other way. so there is a tendency in washington in particular to ban chinese technology and go home and not do anything else. influences discourse and influences public attitudes. a superb piece for the financial times about perhaps suspicions of subtle influencing of taiwanese, i think, if you look eifii a good idea for 170 million americans to have one how it works?

it's not going to persuade them about... security, which is a much wider problem and won't go away, whatever happens to tiktok. because, you know, in terms of a case study of how just explain first, what made you want to do that? i came back to taiwan six years ago, and i had been away- for about ten years. only previously heard - in the chinese mainland, some pronunciations,

some use of terms. l people here speak mandarin too, but they speak it differently, - that a long history- of separation has just led to different use of language. of chinese social media apps. so i was wondering i if that was connected. and what was quite striking i was that the young generation here, who are under 20...

several decades of... ..a one—party dictatorship by the chinese nationalist party that had come over here in 1949 after it lost _ the chinese civil war. ..an ideology of chinese nationalism in taiwan. l so after democratisation, | people were allowed again to have their own identity, whatever they wanted. - more and more taiwanese j and less and less chinese, identity—wise. the young...

of them uses tiktok. and they watch - chinese soap operas. that's something... chinese tv shows, like entertainment shows. i any interest in. chinese influence? how has it gone down in taiwan? it's now part of the democracy.

believes... ..still in a kind - of chinese identity. they don't want to be part of the people's republic l so those people think it's - overdone to panic about tiktok. taiwan's independence, are very, very worried l about this. the ruling party basically fear that they are using... - ..that they are losing i the young generation. landscape here. it could basically mean that people are no longer... - ..will no longer be wary about china. i

and is this conspiracy, or is itjust as much or more people, because of the shared language, end up consuming i almost only chinese content. of course, they can... - ..they can watch whatever- they want on tiktok, in theory. preferences do not shape i the timeline and the content the...the tiktok algorithm has a quite strong push function. .

about how taiwanese democracy is inferior to chinese _ democracy, for example, and we, i in our research for this piece, . we had a lot of- examples like that. so researchers startedl setting up profiles and, afterjust a few days, - they discovered that some content, soft - political content, was being pushed to them. example that kathrin is outlining and the work that's been done to understand what is being pushed towards users by tiktok�*s algorithm, how can you measure through tiktok may have on a consumer?

that, well, if we watch things on social media, i think it's profoundly difficult, hacked into hillary clinton's emails and some of those they released them all. but it's impossible to determine whether or not that influenced... back in...in 2016. but i think the very sort of, the sowing of the seeds of doubt is important enough.

now, there has been some work, i mean, we've talked about kathrin's work on taiwan. there has been some analysis, but i'm not sure how robust it is, about perhaps some of the curation in terms of the israel—palestinian conflict on tiktok, but the one thing that you can't... i mean, there are two things that are really difficult. of this social media output has behaved as they did? at the moment is how the tiktok algorithm actually works, cos they don't tell you. about tiktok�*s corporate links to china, theo bertram, tiktok�*s head of public policy for europe, the middle east he told the bbc, "the suggestion that we are "in any way under the thumb of the chinese government "is completely and utterly false."

it's an e—sport. it's proving popular. and we've been speaking to robert mcmillan from # it's the excel world championship # who's going in the spreadsheet bin?# just trying to get that song out of my head now! we allare! ah, no chance. no chance. why does it exist and why is it popular? like, a coal furnace that's powering the radiators

it's a little bit like magic to many people, myself included. in their day—to—dayjobs. and some people really use it, like, they use it to the point where they're world champion material. and when you show up to witness the world championship, what do you see? what greets you? he laughs yeah, well, it was... when i saw it, it was in the luxor hotel and casino. in cowboy hats. and then you walk in and it's a... they run it in a very normal e—sports arena. ..massive screens on the wall.

watching. big stage. on the stage. people, talking about this event as if it was, like, yeah, i confess... it was very exciting. i mean, for excel. ..i was watching some of it a little bit earlier. but just so we're absolutely clear here, what actually i sat there... but what do they...? well, ok, so they do a bunch of problem—solving, right? so they're... they might be given a bunch of data, say it's... and these are all the ingredients, and these are the, and you have to calculate how to make all the potions. it's extremely geeky.

to figure out what the problems are. you see these big excel spreadsheets up on the screen and then there's... you just see numbers everywhere and eventually robert, it's katie here. i'm actually intrigued by... you went in 2023. i can't believe you didn't go back for 202a. did microsoft found it? are they actually involved at all? there was a guy from microsoft who was there and who spoke glowingly of the excel community, but it's actually excel, so they get...they get sponsorships and they sell but the focus, the dirty secret of the excel competition

convention centre... you've got to do the training... you've got to do the training if you want to win the prize. is it streaming? how are people going to watch it next year? you can watch it on youtube. i mean, they... and plus, it's going on now. ..competitive excel fix. i don't think i've actually, by choice, ever gone i mean, sometimes you have to click on them for work. would you...? and then quickly close them. but, really, the question on this item is whether you i knew that would be your answer. and found i could settle in for some time.

most of them are on youtube. other platforms as well. they're not for everyone, but i suppose our point is, they are for someone. bye. your bbc podcasts. after a january that delivered more than its fair share of stormy, turbulent weather, the start of february does look relatively quiet. as well, and some rain in the mix — but nothing particularly disruptive. to the west of us. running up against this area of high pressure, so that will slow the progress of this weather front — of cloud, some mist and fog,

as well — much of that and wales, some places will get to see some sunshine. south—east are likely to see some spells of sunshine. 10 celsius in plymouth — pretty mild for the time of year. to see some sunshine. eastern scotland may see some sunshine, too, thickening cloud. and some outbreaks of rain. and, as we head through saturday night, well, a bit of patchy rain running ahead of that. but in the south—east corner, where we do see some clear skies, it is likely to be a cold start to sunday morning. we will see clearing skies across southeastern parts. our weather front just tends to weaken and break apart,

will be weakening all the while. into the afternoon. again, that weakens, and actually, by the middle of the week it looks like high pressure should build quite so actually, not a bad week of weather in prospect. of dry weather through the week and some sunshine.

live from washington. this is bbc news.

as the israeli prime minister's visit to the us is confirmed. we begin with breaking news from philadelphia where a small aircraft crashed and sparked a large fire camera further away.