technology to abuse children. yvette cooper is in the studio, along with andrew griffith — the shadow business and trade secretary. and... five, four, three, two, one. since we left the eu. morning, morning. my team at the desk — mina smallman, a campaigner for women's safety after her two daughters were killed four years ago, john caudwell,

billionaire businessman, welcome to all of you. start as we always do with what's making the news. the sunday mirror leads on the government's crackdown on the use of artificial intelligence to create child abuse images. we'll talk to yvette cooper about that shortly. revelations from a new book about keir starmer. is going to released next week casting doubt over lucy letby�*s guilt. here at the bbc we are leading on president trump's new tariffs on china, mexico and canada, perhaps president trump's new tariffs on chii beginning and canada, perhaps president trump's new tariffs on chii beginning ofid canada, perhaps president trump's new tariffs on chii beginning of the|nada, perhaps president trump's new tariffs on chii beginning of the new|, perhaps president trump's new tariffs on chii beginning of the new trade 1aps president trump's new tariffs on

chii beginning of the new trade war. mina you are very in the and challenges in in the issues and challenges in women's safety, what should the be for? 7 " befoi'rthe”? be for the home priorities be for the home i priorities be for the home secretary? i think sometimes you have to legislate _ secretary? i think sometimes you have to legislate i things - have to legislate for things to change i think they need to be nimble because movin- so moving so quickly in things are moving so quickly in terms of radicalisation �* our young terms of radicalisation of our young men that we need to catch them before they fall. find men that we need to catch them before they fall.— men that we need to catch them before they fall. and the man who took our before they fall. and the man who took your daughter' _ before they fall. and the man who took your daughter' - had - before they fall. and the man who took your daughter' - had also | took your daughter' lives had also been referred to the prevent as it's known which we �* had as it's known which we �* had happened 1own which we �* had happened to vn which we �* had happened to the rhich we �* had happened to the southport know had happened to the southport killer. do you think scheme as killer. do you think that scheme as is is fit for or is that it is is fit for purpasegr is that that needs it is is fit far parpasa'crr is that that needs a really big something that needs a really big overhaul? i something that needs a really big overhaul? ~ , something that needs a really big overhaul? ~' , ., ., overhaul? 1",;,.,@,-,.~..~,;,, 42 what it does overhaul? 14h ' - what it does but overhaul? 12th ' - what it does but what happens overhaul? ma - what it does but what happens if fer what it dees butrwhat happens if �*falls the perpetrator falls between two you need agency that

stools? you need another agency that looks entirely at the radicalisation youag: he at z’i’jz” young men, ”7:22?sz young men, masculinity, and of young men, toxic masculinity, and we also need to address dark we also need to address the dark web. , , �* web. very interesting, we'll raise issues web. very interesting, we'll raise - issues with _ web. very interesting, we'll raise - issues with yvette - web. very interesting, we'll raise - issues with yvette cooper. web. very interesting, we'll raisel - issues with yvette cooper in web. very interesting, we'll raise i - issues with yvette cooper in a those issues with yvette cooper in a second. fraser, thejob of home is seen as real poison not seen as real poison not manyis real poison not many make al poison chalice, netmany— make threugh but chalice, net many make three-5h but now do 7777t7hi7n7k7777 7170795177 77 77 7 77 think logic7al challenges think logicalchallengesfor you think the logical challenges for the government?— you think the logical challenges for the government? mainly controlling the were the government? mainly controlling| _ the - were way immigration. the numbers were way bigger— immigration. the numbers were way bigger than— immigration. the numbers were way bigger than even the tories thought they- it's— bigger than even the tories thought they it's the single they were and it's the single biggest _ they were and it's the single biggest in politics now. it's biggest issue in politics now. it's where _ biggest issue in politics now. it's where reform overtaking labour in the opinion— where reform overtaking labour in the opinion polls is all of runnin- ri-ht now and running right now and the result =- he numbers. the 2m numbers. the tories to put on the brakes towards tried to put on t—hebrak—es tow, . end tried to put on thebrakes towards - e_ tried to put on thebrakes towards end by cutting down the visas the end by cutting down the visas but the _ the end by cutting down the visas but the government still doesn't seem _ but the government still doesn't seem to — but the government still doesn't seem to know what the relationship -=——e = -7 -: is between the policies it makes and the numbers coming in so more than anything _ the numbers coming in so more than anything else i think yvette cooper anything else i thinkaettecoop be anything else i thinkaettecoopef - be judged anything else i think yvette—cooper be judged whether that anything else i think yvette—cooper bej comes whether that anything else i think yvette'cooper bej comes down. :her that anything else i thinkaettecooper - be j comes down.-iat - anything else i thinkaettecoop - be j comes down. there, - there is massive

in shoplifting, increasing increase in shoplifting, increasing knife crime and robbery. you founded and run a huge �*looking at and run a huge retailer looking at things, do you think it's changed, and run a huge retailer looking at tf crime to you think it's changed, and run a huge retailer looking at tf crime a you think it's changed, and run a huge retailer looking at tf crime a factor iink it's changed, and run a huge retailer looking at tf crime a factor on: it's changed, and run a huge retailer looking at tf crime a factor on the changed, and run a huge retailer looking at tf crime a factor on the high iged, 7 7 777_]hiie has a s street? i think crime has always been a massive _ street? i think crime has always been a massive factor. - street? i think crime has always been a massive factor. it's - street? i think crime has always been a massive factor. it's a - been a massive factor. it's a massive _ been a massive factor. it's a massive factor— been a massive factor. it's a massive factor in _ been a massive factor. it's a massive factor in terms - been a massive factor. it's a massive factor in terms of. been a massive factor. it's a i massive factor in terms of the been a massive factor. it's a - massive factor in terms of the way london _ massive factor in terms of the way london is — massive factor in terms of the way london is understood _ massive factor in terms of the way london is understood - i. london is understood abroad. i regutarty— london is understood abroad. i regularly meet _ london is understood abroad. i regularly meet very— london is understood abroad. i regularly meet very wealthy. london is understood abroad. i- regularly meet very wealthy people regularly meet very wealthy—people w are regularly meet very wealthy—people - are concerned about london it's not si - nificantly it's not si-nificantly worse crime. it's not significantly worse than _ crime. it's not significantly worse than a _ crime. it's not significantly worse than a i of— crime. it's not significantly worse than a i of major— crime. it's not significantly worse than a i of major- but - than a lot of major cities, but we ought _ than a lot of major cities, but we ought to— than a lot of major cities, but we ought to. more _ than a lot of major cities, but we ought to i more and _ than a lot of major cities, but we ought to i more and the - than a lot of major cities, but we i ought to. more and the problem than a lot of major cities, but we - ought to. more and the problem and ought to do more and the problem and - challenge — ought to do more and the problem and - challenge is — ought to do more and the problem and - challenge is huge _ ought to do more and the problem and i challenge is huge. i've _ ought to do more and the problem and i challenge is huge. i've done - ought to do more and the problem and i challenge is huge. i've done a i —:= = -:= =_t= bit on this because i 2 bit on this because i founded little bit on this because i founded catdwett— little bit on this because i founded caldwell youth, _ little bit on this because i founded caldwell youth, putting _ little bit on this because i founded caldwell youth, putting a - little bit on this because i founded i caldwell youth, putting a one—on—one mentat— caldwell youth, putting a one—on—one mental with— caldwell youth, putting a one—on—one mental with young _ caldwell youth, putting a one—on—one mental with young people _ caldwell youth, putting a one—on—one mental with young people at - caldwell youth, putting a one—on—one mental with young people at risk- =———2 e — -7 77— = _y:= the care system7a i the care system7a often - i the care system7a often they i of the care system and often they had such — of the care system and often they had such a — of the care system and often they had such a had _ of the care system and often they had such a bad existence, - of the care system and often they had such a bad existence, i a i of the care system and often they i had such a bad existence, i a bad experience in life in such bad influence _ experience in life in such bad influence from _ experience in life in such bad influence from other- experience in life in such bad influence from other peoplel experience in life in such bad i influence from other people that -o downa -o down a pathwi

-o down a pathw7of 7 go down a pathw7of sexual they go down a pathway of sexual abuse. _ they go down a pathway of sexual abuse, . criminality, _ they go down a pathway of sexual abuse, . criminality, of- they go down a pathway of sexual abuse, . criminality, of drug i they go down a pathway of sexual . abuse, . criminality, of drug abuse abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse and i have — abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse and i have to _ abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse and i have to stop _ abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse and i have to stop that _ abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse and i have to stop that at - abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse and i have to stop that at the i abuse, of criminality, of drug abuse | and i have to stop that at the core and we have to stop that at the core one and we have to stop that at the core - one i the — and we have to stop that at the core i one . the problems _ and we have to stop that at the core i one . the problems is - and we have to stop that at the core i one . the problems is that i and we have to stop that at the core i one . the problems is that the i never, invests at government never, ever invests at the right— government never, ever invests at the right end — government never, ever invests at the right end of— government never, ever invests at the right end of things. _ government never, ever invests at the right end of things. we - government never, ever invests at the right end of things. we build l m pm - risons, but let's -risons, but let's sto- the the prisons, but let's stop the young — the prisons, but let's stop the young people _ the prisons, but let's stop the young people - into i the prisons, but let's stop the i young people - into prison, young people getting into prison, let's young people getting into prison, tet's stop — young people getting into prison, tet's stop the _ young people getting into prison, let's stop the crime. _ young people getting into prison, let's stop the crime. till- young people getting into prison, let's stop the crime.— let's stop the crime. all three of ou have let's stop the crime. all three of you have laid — let's stop the crime. all three of you have laid down _ let's stop the crime. all three of you have laid down the - let's stop the crime. all three of you have laid down the gauntlet| let's stop the crime. all three of. you have laid down the gauntlet for home secretary cooper, so the home secretary yvette cooper, so we'll get on with our main event. the home secretary's job is always a tough one, harder still as the threats to us evolve, with the online world creating new ways to offend. phones and a hard drive. today, yvette cooper's unveiling new laws to make it harder and even sell images of child abuse. i'm to say she is this morning and before christmas we a lot about immigration so we talked a lot about immigration so we are going focus on other issues

are going to focus on other issues start with your new today. let's start with your new proposals to tackle online child it's already illegal proposals to tackle online child i images dy illegal proposals to tackle online child i images of illegal proposals to tackle online child i images of illeg�* abuse, or to them,77so why 7 them,77sowhy we 7 them,77so why we need them,7so why we need even create them, so why do we need even more legislation?— more legislation? good morning, laura. more legislation? good morning, laura- well. _ more legislation? good morning, laura. well, you _ more legislation? good morning, laura. well, you are _ more legislation? good morning, laura. well, you are i there | more legislation? good morning, | laura. well, you are i there is laura. well, you are right, there is a legal and child already a legal framework and child abuse one of the most vile and abuse is one of the most vile and horrendous crimes against some of the most vulnerable people of we are seeing is that al is but what we are seeing is that al is now putting the online child abuse on steroids. it's escalating industrialising the scale of some of this appalling abuse. have this appalling abuse. you have perpetrators are using ai perpetrators who are using al to help them better groom or blackmail hela them battarg’raavfi et’blath’mgl” "” 7’ ' and children, hele them better g’reem’ emblaeemgl” "” 7’ ' and children, distorting 7 and using to 7 7 and using to draw 7 7 and using to draw y7oung 7 into furth7er 7 7 into furth7er abuse. 7 7 intofurth7erabuse.just 7 people into further abuse. just the most horrific things taking place. and also becoming more sadistic in some of the images the national

some'of'the imagestha�*t'the'ltatiohal are now seeing. crime agency are now seeing. that's why we need to strengthen the law. why we eneedete strengthen the law. are bringing in new laws to we are bringing in new laws to outlaw the use of ai models to magma” 777777 at; éifii$it£hiid77777 77777 at; éifiiatthiiaéiijs} 77 777 create and exploit child abuse images and also much stronger 7 on those 7 7 on those who 7 on those who are forums to teach 7 forums to teach other 7 these forums to teach other people to use ai for abuse. tsine these forums to teach other people to use ai for abuse.— to use ai for abuse. one of the shockin: to use ai for abuse. one of the shocking things _ to use ai for abuse. one of the shocking things when - to use ai for abuse. one of the shocking things when you i to use ai for abuse. one of the shocking things when you talk| to use ai for abuse. one of the i shocking things when you talk to sheching'thfnge'finen gee tal'e te who work in this area is that people who work in this area is that of this is taking place on mainstream platforms. this isn't hidden away on the dark web, which has mentioned already, the dark hidden away on the dark web, which you 'nentioned already, the dark hidden away on the dark web, which you say tioned already, the dark hidden away on the dark web, which you say its red already, the dark hidden away on the dark web, which you say it's on already, the dark hidden away on the dark web, which you say it's on steroids. the dark hidden away on the dark web, which you say it's on steroids. can iark web. you say it's on steroids. can you give is a scale of how many you give is a scale of howrmany vulnerable and how many children are vulnerable and how many people are in people actually are involved in these kinds of crimes now wears these kinds'of crimes'now'wears these kinds'of crimes'now'wears the national crime agency yellow the national crime agency estimate it could be to 800,000 estimate it could be up to 800,000 people who are viewing child sexual abuse material online. much people who are viewing child sexual abuse material online.— people who are viewing child sexual abu be naterial online.— people who are viewing child sexual abu be linked ll online.— people who are viewing child sexual abu be linked to inline._ people who are viewing child sexual abu be linked to children _ can be linked to children and also linked to off—line abuse as well.

eeeeee—ee iq u i w inquiry estimated about recent inquiry estimated about children across the country 500,000 children across the country are victims 500,000 c