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now, newscast but also because we're sitting we're going to reveal our two guests in a moment. have you done any acting in your life? badly. me too. i was oliver, my voice broke. yes, we will. and i have always wondered, actually, who was helping keir starmer behind the scenes as he made hisjourney communication style did of the person who helped him

along the way. hello, it's paddy in the studio. and laura in the studio, and in the studio we are joined is chock a block with scoops. it's a really romping read, full of stories happily. my name is gabriel pogrund. introduce himself as patrick maguire. i work at the times. it's the sunday times. go, as laura calls it. but can ijust go a bit meta. get in there. had so many years of opposition, didn't they?

there's friction. and i'm thinking to myself, yes, it's a very difficultjob to be in opposition. it's a very difficultjob to be in government. i'm not surprised there's friction. norare we. and, i suppose, we aren't making a value judgment we, ithink, reflect in the book that tony blair said that he wanted the 21st century to be a labour century. the 20th century had been a conservative century. of the 21st century entailed. party back into power. and we wanted to examine how that happened. and it is an incredible journey. including lisa nandy, who's now, of course, in cabinet, saying, actually, labour might not even exist if we don't sort ourselves out.

back into power. are, if they haven't seen them in the paper? and then i want to hear what your favourite ones are, about jeremy corbyn. patrick, what is it? it's an extraordinary link between dominic cummings and jeremy corbyn. yeah, it's a remarkable story. politically after his long - career in the law as jeremy a second referendum. and that was why he i was so popular among what was he thwarting on the other side? - what did the corbynites want to do? _

and in the process, beat the tories in an election| and split them forever. mind bending. to work for boris johnson as his principal adviser, reality. when that fails... ..kaboom. he had that as a very boomer.

in the way that you did. another scoop, of course, is that there was the lockdown if he had to go because he said he'd go, didn't he? yeah. leadership bids, and that is indeed what happened. obviously, it was contingency planning, but on one side you had wes streeting, now the health secretary, and was thinking about it. but he knew at the same time that rachel reeves, the shadow chancellor, would probably be thinking

you know. and he says, have you thought about what you're going to do? and she said, i don't think it's going to happen. to which wes streeting said words to the effect of, but have you thought about what you might do if it does happen? it's not going to happen. but little did wes streeting know that already there this is an amazing story because the| it was tantalising for us.

was king, who would be able to deputise for him in - assent to legislation or representing - the uk overseas? and there is this list that counsellors of state - and angela rayner, i she had this, i think, 20 word plus job title after the hartlepooll of the duchy of lancaster. and that meant that she was responsible on labour's side| for the passage of legislation, essentially formalising - anyway, nobody asked for the legal and - constitutional history. rayner said she was having none

| of it and she had huge concerns| previous association with jeffrey epstein. famous for that, too, of having, you know, they think that's because she does have a really good sense of where many people's hearts and minds are. that's also the reason some people don't like her, with rayner and all sorts of other people who are, voter or the labour activist. who know keir starmer very well, is of somebody so, patrick, how do

you reflect on that? i mean, is that the impression that you got? yeah, definitely. with afterjeremy corbyn was suspended in 2020, is what they recall him saying.

talk about, i think. well, the thing is, of course, that morgan mcsweeney won the fight with sue gray. being his chief of staff couldn't last very long. type of manager rather than a big political leader. well, i wouldn't be very happy if i was keir starmer sitting i mean, there are very, very extensive briefings named in the book who helpfully talk to you. but ijust wonder, how much stink do you think this is going to kick up? upon is what is self—evident

to a lot of people. because it's a difficultjob to go from opposition who are human beings. yeah. i think you can see from outer space that starmer has zigged he's a pragmatist, his fans would say, and he's a sort of empty vessel. his detractors would say. victory with more mps than there are human beings in... there are astronauts. so i think that it's clear that that's been to what extent did he subcontract the politics

he was plotting his path to power very consciously, very deliberately. this source said he was very keen to make sure that they were on top of things like campaign finance so you do get the strong impression that at times he has leaned on those around him and how much, you know,

a little more complicated. of the road, and he was someone who kind of fit the bill. and keir starmer was- the right man in the right place at the right time. well, it's easy to say, and he paid attention - to what members wanted. this guy clearly gets it -

in the way that sort of people clearly don't get. and also, i mean, he as a lawyer, he did so he was a successful voice of opposition. and he also tackled anti—semitism and sacked acts of leadership. yes, he did. from a woman called . leonie mellinger, who's and other luminaries. one day in 2017, she got a phone call saying, - labour mp called keir starmer? connect with audiences. so she watched him speak and she said, basically, that was rubbish. didn't expect to be called back, - and she worked with . keystone for four years. conscientious, aware -

of his weaknesses and really, really keen to improve. now, some people will say he didn't improve that markedly. j those who work with him say public speaking comes muchl more naturally to him now. arts of politics. that's one of the things that explains his relationship - with people like morgan i'm not good at it. i don't particularly like it. you seem to be good at it. you know, you go over there and do it. - you know, when you were speaking a few moments ago you need to keep your head down. who lovejeremy corbyn. and you need to ensure

that you say and do i mean, that's very easy in principle, but the practice he was saying to his adviser, chris ward, i need to practice prime minister's questions. and we did speak to a lot of starmer aides who said, well, everybody too much needlessly. and keir starmer had that ability to do only that yeah. as themselves as in his camp, or his fans, or those who've helped him along the way

would always say actually, always relentless, always. there's a sort of sense someone said to me when they were in with keir starmer. like nobody would have dared be late. or he might, like, not necessarily tell you off, but it would have been noticed. an absolutely pristine spare white shirt hanging. and i asked somebody, i said, is that...? and they said, oh, yeah. and i thought, what a little picture of someone who's always sojust in case. well, don't forget. on the king's butler. they spill on his shirt. so he has the pink, but it has to go. meaning the downton abbey

butler is the one who actually i mean, this news cycle has been so relentless really, to labour and our listeners who love labour will even now be reaching for the tissues when we recall what actually so labour, the people at the top of labour have been had always been red. that's right. i mean, it's a topsy turvy era in politics well, maybe you can. and that is why, by the way, for all of his shortcomings

sorry. yourselves in talking to people about keir starmer for, know him really well. if there was one thing from each of you that you would take away from it, that applies now to what would it be? because someone was saying to me the other day, look, he was always underestimated. people said he couldn't turn the party around as quickly as he did. look at what he achieved. been a real disaster, and there's no way they're ever the economy around. you learnt that you think applies to where they are patrick? that process takes him a long time. i it can infuriate - people around him. he can be the last personl to acknowledge something that's happening aloud. see sue gray, by the way.

he, to coin a phrase, prosecutes that case| incredibly hard. so, if he can find a politics, l or someone can convince him for it like the clappers. but the problem is, it's finding that. - keir starmer doesn't have that. this idea that starmer acts like a hr managerand not and not a leader. enlarging as a politician. tick oraj—curve.

you never change your mind. since you were a trade union organiser in hornsey in the '80s. well, starmer is a quite rare thing, and we're not journalistic subject. which you brought and probably the times as well. to enjoy, courtesy of some of the information that but thanks so much for coming

in and talking to us. and our newscasters this sunday. there's been lots of lots of news around, yes. does now seem to be holding good to the promise to slap tariffs on countries that he's not happy with. they are due to come into force on tuesday, and canada and mexico have said that they will retaliate so it is all hotting up.

but inevitably that's out there for the commentariat. that's right. and the conservative shadow business secretary make i'm not sure if i want to say this again. i had to say it on the television this morning, he said, trying to trying to make love to the us who's a rhino and the eu, who's a sloth at the same time. is that the metaphor? that was the metaphor he chose. operate and do business with an increasingly sort of gung ho, deregulating america under donald trump, in all sorts of new rules and regulations on digital

and we asked yvette cooper this morning what the threat is. well, tariff increases really right across the world can but the focus forjonny reynolds, our business and trade secretary, is on building trade we want to reduce the barriers to trade, make it the uk does feel a bit like a bystander. historically, that is a very powerful role to be

it as, we have the best of both worlds, actually. but inevitably he's going to be triangulated because quite a lot of businesses have written to, warning that the eu that even they've said they might have to delay some side of the atlantic. so we say, thank you. and goodbye. goodbye. newscast. newscast from the bbc. hello there. like one of two halves. we will start the week off fairly unsettled, returning overnight. during the course of today.

of the country overnight. that's going to bring wet and windy weather england and wales, variable cloud because of that weather cold further north and west where it's wet and windy. for monday it will probably be be the most unsettled day on monday with some sunshine, variable cloud, could be quite grey in the south—east, lighter winds here than double figure values for most. could be up to 12 or 13 degrees across the moray firth, given some sunny spells here. and northern ireland

with the rain pepping up. i don't think any problems with frost. we will see some weather fronts moving into the north and west of the country. but this is a cold front behind it, the air does turn colder. so england and wales generally mild, rain in the north and the west pushing eastwards. through the afternoon on tuesday. but here we'll see scattered showers, and with the colder double figures across the south and the east. then it's all change, wednesday we start to see this that'll last throughout the end of the week. and we'll be tapping into some much colder air from the near continent. even as we head into the weekend, it will be staying cold for all. of a wintry nature. but you can see despite it turning colder there should be a lot of dry

and sunny weather too.

this is bbc news. at some point this is going to impose a severe cost on the american economy, as it on american economyrasritwill. gr; the whole the canadian economy. the whole thing isjust the canadian economy. the whole thing is just crazy. the president of panama — amid tensions over president la hosts the grammys — with beyonce and taylor swift