welcome to hardtalk from delhi. economy in the world. enormous challenges. how sustainable is that? and given the reality of climate change, for how long fuels, especially coal? hardeep singh puri. could energy be india's achilles heel?

thank you. good to be back. to mark the centenary of india's modern nationhood. it's a grand ambition. not possible? i think it's going to be made possible well before the 100 years of independence are over. if you permit, my vision of what is at stake in the world according

to the monetary fund, the imf. the size of your economy is beyond dispute. 1.4? yes. is enormous. no question. but economists reckon that to become fully developed, to use that phrase, i.e. let me put it to you differently. where has the developed country been defined? point one. i mean, i know of no definition

in the multilateral system. development has to be all comprehensive. i think in many respects we are already better developed but i ask you the broad question, because you are a key extraordinary growth path that you outline, then in fact, they are going to dominate global energy markets to a very real extent. it's going to leave india very energy dependent on outside energy sources, is it not?

not really. availability has been lacking and you have to resource from outside. japan being a case in point, but i won't go down that road. to be, pretty much 90% of your oil needs come from outside. but our domestic e&p or exploration and production, point one are biofuel blending. so 20% of all the fuel consumed at the bunk is biofuel,

which is all indigenous domestic. on. but let us face facts, right now, you are hugely dependent on supplies of relatively cheap oilfrom russia. at 27 we are importing from 39 countries. came from vladimir putin. at one point it was 38%. it's coming down. the availability of oil.

it's not what something i'm saying where the iea is right is that of the total demand increase in the next on that, they are totally correct. than there are takers. i'm sorry. the united states. not at all. let me, let me, let me enlighten you. there is no sanction on russian oil then or now. none whatsoever. well, there's new sanctions now. let's just talk about.

all right. he put new sanctions on russian oil, including including as we speak, from russia to india. some in india are calling this an oil shock for your country. let me share with you what actually has happened. to hungary has been exempt all along. japan has been exempt. so what the americans i was i was in i was active,

buy it reasonable. now it's music to my ears. if i can buy some from some source and i can buy minister. let's get back to the point about the shadow no, not at all. let me tell you. let me just tell you. to the wrong argumentation. we do not use fleets. we issue tenders at the point of importation. we want to import x amount of oil global tender. whoever can supply it delivered at our port. before february 2022, we imported 0.2% of oil from russia today. today, it went up.

but even in those last two years, sometimes iraq was selling more. hemisphere, then there is need for that oil. does not arise. it's interesting. of the economist magazine. you know what the economist described, you know what the economist described your relationship with russia as a faustian pact between mr modi and president putin. i believe president putin is invited to come to delhi very soon, isn't he? well, i think the quad leaders will be coming here very soon. and let me also tell you... i'm talking about russia. from the invasion of ukraine by putin's forces in february of 2022. i guess these are

connected, aren't they? hop, step and jump. we were told to buy russian oil because if we hadn't bought russian oil and we had started buying our quantities of 5 million barrels a day, which we were buying, bought from the middle east. you've made the point. no. the price would have gone up to $200 a barrel. i'm now into geopolitics. it's interesting. indian foreign service. you understand the way geopolitics works. is it wise, do you believe, for india to have forged majority vote. russia violated ukraine's sovereignty in this invasion,

the place it is now in? as i said, a limited understanding of the situation, india is in a comfortable position all over. secretary of state met was the indian foreign minister. a quad meeting is taking place here. my prime minister has had a discussion with president trump. i think some of the concerns you're worried about should be you believe in international law, don't you? i believe, i'm a practitioner of international law. western europe is hardly in a position to tell let me tell you, we have condemned the use of violence. this is not the time of war.

and everything else was done. so my submission to... to talking sovereignty. with kashmir and other people's perceptions of kashmir�*s status. you talk about the inviolability of sovereignty, and its rights. we use that language consistently. and i want to correct you. sovereignty, said. we have said on record this is not a time for war. that's not a condemnation of russia's invasion of ukrainian territory.

i would suggest that you read the western demand to end the war. on on palestine, etc.. on palestine, etc.. at all points, at affordable rates and in a sustainable manner. as russia is concerned, we have relations with the russian federation, and i would say we buy $20 billion worth of energy from the united states. so the point here is, if it is a discussion on energy, i think it has been completely consistent. and today, we were encouraged by the americans,

minister, if i may, i'm going to stop you for a check because you've turned the conversation toward donald trump is determined to use tariffs as and when necessary, to change the balance of trade between the united states and key trading partners. and i'll come to tariffs in a minute. available in the world. for the other producers to lower the energy prices.

it is an attempt to leverage in tariffs also. he is what he's saying is if we are a $23 trillion impose high tariffs on us, well, there are two kinds of tariffs. now if countries are raising impose tariffs. let's keep this conversation as simple as possible. and he has fingered india as a problem, will you respond with punitive tariffs on us goods coming into india. its interests, whether it does through negotiation to avoid thetariffsoritdoes. ,. s. w-.. .. . .

you should have a conversation on that to whoever is designated to exercise that authority. here's another issue you have. to consider it very carefully. how does india square its commitment to massively grow the economy and therefore to use much more energy, fossil fuel energy over the coming years and at the same time meet its commitments? admittedly, in india's case, long term commitments to decarbonisation? met its paris commitments. point one india is the one country where the sustainability transition is better than elsewhere. and we are today moving in a situation where on all but the problem you've got

is that you're still massively and you're still building new coal fired power stations. of our overall energy. if you want to look at the total figure, see and they are all moving into green hydrogen. iocl is 11 refineries out of them, two of them first and another two. so there is a transition taking place which your briefing notes either you accept what i'm telling you as the energy, are biofuel planting on an increasing demand. 90 new flex fuel vessels were on display, which are coming to the market in the next three months. so absolutely, yes,

our consumption is increasing. the problem you've got, and that's why i began you are welcome to quote, i don't know who these people are, and certainly they don't figure in my discourse at all. from western ngos, from people in the west you're welcome to use whomever is speaking notes you like,

transition, let me point you in two specific direction. happening in the indian green hydrogen field. the tender, which iocl has floated nowhere in the world have you got this. 0n the first day, i had a meeting with the then energy for $1 in ten years. the energy said, we support we buy $150 billion today, the cost of green hydrogen has come down to three and a half fold. fossil fuel is over. mindsets which say you will never become this. we, they said you will never become a $5 trillion economy. a, sort of, east—west, uh, political point scoring. it should not be. a deep vulnerability right

here, right now to the impacts of climate change. i am trying to tell you i am not only conscious, don't become vulnerable. countries which are pulling out of climate change, which won't, etc. today, no one is questioning the transition. fuel is not available. beneficiaries. these are the advances india is making where 30% so i don't know how you going to define. system which will have

all the ingredients about your government's vision for your country. preferable to a liberal one. it is, says agarwal, a form of illiberal democracy. do you? no, i don't. there are as as a fact of the matter is, mr nehru the western liberal system.

not gradually, rapidly transforming. mr agarwal is entitled to his views. and mr agarwal is perhaps serving an audience. today in india, you have a robust democracy. against elected leaders. see what happens in terms of result. today, our institutions are functioning. the fourth estate, the press, this as a free press. i don't know which journalist you're talking about.

that organisations like human rights watch say that the government has escalated a crackdown on civil society and the media. i just wonder whether you think all of this is justified says he can deliver. first of all, i don't agree with those characterisation. somebody calling it an illiberal democracy. we're also the mother of democracy. we had republics operating in india and sixth century bc. and today, what you witness in india is a very robust

what would you ask us have? insofar as liberty and democracy is concerned. we have no shortage of it. thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you. really appreciate it. hello there. thursday was a cold and frosty start, but those clear skies led to some beautiful winter sunshine. both topping and tailing the country, this was

there's quite a cold wind developing that's and we're going to see a fresher wind developing and coming in from the south easterly. and with wind gusts for some in excess of 30 miles an hour, of the weather as well. western fringes will keep some sunshine. but at the same time that brisk easterly wind could drive in a cluster of showers as we go through the day,

it really will make it feel quite cold, forfirst thing on saturday morning. will start off again with some patchy frost and fog around. a little bit of brightness developing into the southeast by the end of the day. as strong either. then through sunday and into the week ahead, around, but that still means there's a risk for one or two

this is bbc news. a takeover of gaza.

and climate scientists are examining whyjanuary we begin with the continuing fallout over donald trump's the us president is doubling down on his idea — palestinians in what he called