to eliminate hamas. he also expressed anger at the treatment of three israeli hostages released by hamas on saturday. the families of two of the three girls who were the sentencing of their killer should not have been televised. in their first interview, the parents of seven—year—old elsie dot and six—year—old elsie dot and six—year—old bebe king said they wanted bebe king said they wanted the girls to be remembered the girls to be remembered for their personalities — for their personalities — not what happened to them. not what happened to them. if you have justjoined us if you have justjoined us roger— if you have justjoined us roger and _ if you have justjoined us roger and looks- if you have justjoined us roger and looks me - if you have justjoined us roger and looks me willi roger— if you have justjoined us roger and _ if you have justjoined us roger and looks- if you have justjoined us roger and looks me - if you have justjoined us roger and looks me willi if you have just joined us . roger and looks me will be if you have just joined us - roger and looks me will be with us shortly— roger and looks me will be with if you have just joined us . roger and looks me will be if you have just joined us - roger and looks me will be with us shortly— roger and looks me will be with us shortly but _ roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for _ roger and looks me will be with us shortly but _ roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for _ roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for now— roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for now it - roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for now it is - us shortly but for now it is time — us shortly but for now it is us shortly but for now— roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for now it - roger and looks me will be with us shortly but for now it is - us shortly but for now it is time — us shortly but for now it is time for— us shortly but for now it is time for talking _ us shortly but for now it is time for talking like - us shortly but for now it is time for talking like this l us shortly but for now it is . time for talking like this and time for— us shortly but for now it is time for talking _ us shortly but for now it is time for talking like - us shortly but for now it is time for talking like this l us shortly but for now it is . time for talking like this and this — this —

hello and welcome to talking business. here's what's on the programme this week... digging for influence. rare earth elements power everything from computer chips to wind turbines, but who controls the buried treasure? the materials are crucial for the global economy, and just one reason why donald trump wants control of greenland, but china is also vying for dominance.

the modern economy function. revolution, but also for things like high—tech military weapons as well. they might be called rare elements, but there's no shortage. they're deemed rare because they're often difficult to extract from the earth in usable quantities. but they're also at the centre of a growing political storm. greenland, and a key source of tension between china and the rest of the world. they've got exotic—sounding names such as holmium and praseodymium, and there are 17 of them. was early to recognise the value of rare earths and their importance for new tech. in 1987, he's widely reported to have said, "the middle east has oil — china has rare earths." of the global supply chain. 90% of refined rare earths come from china, and it's in a good position to keep that

dominance going. followed only by vietnam and brazil. but the refining process is normally bad for there's only a handful of facilities to do it the west is working to change that, and underjoe biden�*s the supply chain. they can't function, and we expect the demand to, for them, to increase by 400 to 600% over the next several decades. well, donald trump agrees on the importance of rare the world's leading producer and processor. shortly before he was sworn in, he was asked if he could rule out using military or economic coercion to get his way.

you're talking about panama and greenland. no, i can't assure you on either of those two. security. the european union also knows rare earths are critical to its future. we have launched a new generation of trade deals to secure supplies of raw materials, clean energy and clean tech from around the world. it's actually eu member denmark that controls greenland, it's not for sale. translation: we don't want to be danes. - we don't want to be americans. we want to be greenlandic. who will decide their own future. so let's get a better understanding of why those materials are so important to the global economy, i've been speaking to a professor of environmental studies and public policy at new york university. he's a former minister

in the greek government and wrote a book called china and the geopolitics of rare earths. professor sophia kalantzakos, welcome to the programme. it's great to have you with us. and there's so much for us to talk about. but explain to me, first of all, why these rare earths are so valuable? what do they do? what do they provide that powers the global economy? well, they're very valuable because for the various tech applications, military applications, renewable applications, you name it, they contain rare earths. earths have been absolutely indispensable. and that's the electrification of transport and the diversification of our energy mix to include renewables. crisis. revolution, which is the digitalisation of the global economy and the introduction of al, was not only possible, but we felt that this would make our economies less material intensive.

but these applications require rare earths, but also insatiable amounts of energy. and i think that is a huge problem. chips need rare earths. the magnets that go into some of these technologies, they all need rare earths. rare earths are going to, again, be central in this transition as well. are there enough of them to go around to meet that demand? at the moment we have enough rare earths, but as there's this huge economic competition happening, the west has woken chain. it's not only the materials, but also the supply chains from mine to market. the west or china's competitors need to ensure that there's a diversification of the supply chain. there are rare earths in other countries beyond china. they're in australia, vietnam, brazil, but that doesn't mean that these countries will be

willing to sell only to the united states, to europe and its allies. why is it that china is so dominant in this field? because china recognised, first of all, that rare earths were going to be indispensable. it became a strategic asset for them. it became... when they realised that they needed to leapfrog in certain technologies... it needed to leapfrog. it realised that tech and the electrification were going to be really important for its economy, and it had an industrial policy. the west relied very much on globalisation, chains because there was a market in china,

and everybody wanted to be next to all of the various factories that produced the components that went into the final application. will all play out, but what is your forecast over the next 12 months, 2a months? what does this market look like? such a political issue as it is now? it will and economic ties for trade, it will help the developing world move forward and the developing world. refineries; , ,

refine world. refineriesgyemeneed i refine tm_ world. refineriesgyemeneed l refine im— world. refineriesgyemeneed i refine them. this requires i to refine them. this requires permits, it complying permits, it requires complying to standards. europe has some of the most advanced standards in order to be able to not rape and pillage what is left of the %7= planetlbe idea is to do in a planetsibe idea is to do in a way that is mindful things in a way that is mindful and environmentally doable because it is not only about i because it is not only about that. i know no-one really knows the _ that. i know no-one really knows the answer - that. i know no-one really knows the answer about i that. i know no-one really i knows the answer about how this will play out but what is your forecast for the next 12 months, 2a months? what will the market look like and who will be the dominant players and will it still be a will be the dominant players and will issue be a will be the dominant players and will issue as a will be the dominant players and will issue as it is now? political issue as it is now? there will not a in there will not be a change in the dominant player if we're about the next few talking about the next few months. europe has been trying to diversify supply chain to diversify the supply chain to diversify the supply chain to create and make magnets in the eu and is looking to build partnerships with other countries that have the potential to produce rare

earth. let me also say we = -: a lot about 5 a lot about exploration hear a lot about exploration and all these different parts hear a lot about exploration ar the . these different parts hear a lot about exploration ar the world. different parts hear a lot about exploration ar the world. these nt parts hear a lot about exploration ar the world. these projects of the world. these projects are either very early stages or will take at least ten they will take at least ten years to come online. so not much will be changing. given the state _ much will be changing. given the state of _ much will be changing. given the state of relations i much will be changing. given | the state of relations between the state of relations between the us and china right now do you expect that china will block american access to its refining but also to that finished product?- refining but also to that finished product? even though rare earths — finished product? even though rare earths produced i finished product? even though rare earths produced in i finished product? even though rare earths produced in the i rare earths produced in the united states are being refined in china nobody is in china still. nobody is trying to exclude the united states, �* se, trying to exclude the united states, �*se, ithink trying to exclude the united states, �*se, i think it is a states, per se, i think it is a question of what kinds of messages united states :—= 77 the world. up until ascending the world. up until now under the biden administration logic was administration theslogic was work with our allies that we work with our allies and we compete with our rivals. now logic has been tossed mm is not mm- out the window. so it is not at all clear how things will work out. and china will continue to

dominate the supply chains line to market while also to market while others also build resilience and that will not stop. build resilience and that will not sto. ., , build resilience and that will not step-— build resilience and that will notsto. ., ., not stop. 52—5in for bein: on the with us with is this with us this week. programme with us this week. thank you. well, one company that's found itself right at the centre of these tensions is, aptly enough, called critical minerals. it's mining one of the world's largest deposits of rare earths unprecedented global attention. i've been speaking to its chief executive. tony sage, welcome to the programme. it's important because no one commodity should be monopolised by any one jurisdiction. and in this case, it happens to be not a friendly why it's so important,

digging it out of the ground of the world's supply. and you're using it for everything. on at the moment, you're using it for missile systems, elon musk couldn't send a rocket up into space without that satellite. so, really, everything in the modern world comes down to these rare earth metals. and so you find yourself, right now, caught in the centre valuable stuff that is so vital to the global economy. what is that like? look, it's pleasurable in one point because, going around trying to raise money for any mineral project is difficult in this climate. a lot of people see mining as a dirty industry, if you like to call it that. we don't see it like that, obviously, in the mining industry, because the whole of the western and human

so you cannot really progress. if all mining stopped tomorrow, the world would stop in about a month. that's how important mining is. so it's become very, very political in a way, because mr trump, now president trump, about three five years ago, in fact, floated the idea of buying greenland. that was after greg barnes, who has had this deposit for 20—odd years, went to the white house and explained and what is there is the largest... outside of china and russia, it's the largest rare earths deposit in the world. it's 4.7 billion tonnes. if we mined it, starting tomorrow, it'd take about 3,000 years to mine everything out at... all the rare earths out of it. earths in western countries.

and ironically, the ones in the us ship the rare earths to china to process to get back the rare earth metals, of the us defense department. what pressure are you getting from places like the white house not to sell this stuff to china? look, me personally, i didn't get any pressure, but greg barnes, the previous owner, before we bought it after pressure from the white house, not to sell any of the rare earth to china. um, hence, ithink, one of the reasons he decided to sell it to us. we've already been to washington once. that was pre trump coming in, being inaugurated.

so we're now being invited back to washington to visit the various departments that are very interested in it. and there's three or four. so we'll be definitely... and the state department. so we'll be definitely visiting those over the next month or so. do you get a sense from them about what they want to talk to you about, and what those conversations will look like? yeah. of china and russia, to keep the whole of the supply you've got to then process them and process them systems, for destroyers, for submarines, for f—35 fighters. elon musk, for his starlink satellites, etc, etc. so what the defense department

will do, they would introduce us to people like lockheed martin, to raytheon, product into what the defense department, the department of energy, spacex, tesla and those companies will be with their ai industries booming. they need to obviously have superconductors, chips and the like, and all those are formed from the rare earths that are on our property. it strikes me you're in a really powerful position, for want of a better word, because you could sort of name your price, couldn't you? no—one else has. "don't sell it to them. sell it to us." you could pretty much name whatever price you want, couldn't you? look, um, the interesting thing about mining is other people find...

when it does that, all the other explorers go out and find lithium, and it's come back down to $1,000 a tonne. the same thing will happen with rare earths. position. the australian government has never done this before, they gave $1 billion to an australian company the us government under biden had 1.5 billion earmarked the united states. there's two or three up—and—coming ones there. the advantage for us — ours has been drilled. it's relatively cheap to extract. it's relatively... it's very environmentally friendly.

a lot of these rare earths are in areas which could be fragile, especially the ones in the united states. as you say, getting the stuff out of the ground in greenland is a bit easier than maybe elsewhere, but there when it comes to refining this into useful stuff, isn't there? correct. that is the biggest challenge that we face. the mine itself will be sustainable. we have two by—products that are building materials which will make the mine profitable. we hope to start mining late next year. we've got already an environmental approval and our mining licence to mine 500,000 tonnes per annum. so we'll start that process as quickly as we can, and we'll get those two building materials and we'll ship those to iceland or to europe, and that will make the mine break even. the rare earths part...part of the, uh, the equation

that's three or four technologies in the west. there's one norwegian, and there's two out of the us. to the three laboratories and just see which one to process it. now, whether that's processed in an eu jurisdiction or a us service the west, so it's not going back into china or russia. what paul does this take on you? can't imagine you got you? i can't imagine you got into job imagining you into thisjob imagining you would be at the centre �*a storm. what - ressure global storm. what pressure does it put a new? it global storm. what pressure does it put a new?— global storm. what pressure does it put a new? it does. i'm talkin: does it put a new? it does. i'm talking to _ does it put a new? it does. i'm talking to you _ does it put a new? it does. i'm talking to you at _ does it put a new? it does. i'm talking to you at midnight i does it put a new? it does. i'm talking to you at midnight and| ii—i just want: 77 just wantzto 77 just wantzto get 77 just wantzto get our 77 just wantzto get our story i just want to get our story across so people don'tjust see as a greedy mining company us as a greedy mining company taking the when you

taking advantage. the when you take on a role you take it all on. i did not expected to be this political �*trump to this political or mr trump to go hard in the press on greenland. i did not expect them to have a conversation with the denmark by minister so quickly. i got feeling being on the ground for three years, the local population do not want to be part of denmark, they want independence and they do not want to be part of the us =-— i think they will try either. i think they will try to force a referendum and the danes would have to accept it and then they probably would do and then they probably would do a with the united states a deal with the tinteéstatas ~ ~ . but a deal with the tinteéstates ~ ~ . but not a deal with the tintedstates ~ ~ . but not become a or a state. they e“ —,e elm- —,e 7—' '—- fiende�* z 7—7 7- 77u tish 7 z to talk to you this week. fascinating to get that insight, thank you. elements to the global economy, and that's especially true in the production of electric vehicles. china currently produces more than three—quarters of all ev batteries, nearly two—thirds of all evs, but whilst the technology now allows smaller cars to go further and charge more quickly, larger industrial vehicles

still rely on fossil fuels like petrol and diesel. trucks, buses, coaches and construction vehicles and too costly. but one uk firm says it has the answer, and i've been speaking to its chief executive. jean de la verpilliere, welcome to talking business. it's so good to have you here and talk to me, because you're trying to solve a big problem for the ev powered by electricity? so, as you know, there's a general trend towards electrification. it started with consumer electronics evolved what we are doing is really addressing what we see electrification of heavy—duty vehicles.

so we are talking trucks, buses, trains, ships and the likes, which are more difficult to electrify. and we, echion technologies, university of cambridge and have developed technologies to address precisely this. why are they more difficult to power with electricity? these heavy—duty vehicles are, you know, by definition, bigger. they require bigger batteries, and they're used... uh, they're used in a different way than electric cars. they're used typically very intensively. they are used in industrial and commercial settings where you cannot afford to have your vehicle sitting idle, doing nothing, being recharged, for instance, because that costs money. sometimes they operate in very difficult environments, very cold environments, hot environments. all of these things are just very difficult for the battery. so what we are doing really is addressing the very difficult limitations at that... place on batteries.

of people will talk about is that range anxiety, worrying that, you know, the battery will run out before they get where they need to get to. about long—distance lorry drivers, you know, the demands how do you solve that? "a gigantic battery that will last for a very long time. "less energy, but you'll be able to recharge this battery "very fast, maybe in five or ten minutes." all you care about is getting to your next charge point.

of the vehicle. you can do with a smaller battery that is just the right size for what you're trying to do and you recharge it more, in many cases, what the user wants is, you know, we're in this programme, we're talking a lot about the sort to things like rare earths and rare minerals that are used um, are you confident that the world has enough of this stuff to create the batteries that you quite clearly need for your business? the answer is not... which may sound like a scary rare element, but that is actually not. it's as abundant as lead, for instance, in the earth's crust.

the question is more, you know, can people mine it in a way that makes sense environmentally but also economically, of course, so that it gets to the end applications? these are definitely good questions that i think need to be considered at the very beginning of any technology choice. because i know you've got trials currently using your technology. so, the firms that could be digging this stuff out they're digging out. yeah. no, that's a very interesting use case. 0ne application in the heavy—duty vehicle space that is getting a lot of attention at the moment is the electrification of mining vehicles. trucks, you know, 300—tonne trucks. the size of a house. they're gigantic. they burn incredible quantities of diesel fuel at the moment. you know, thousands of litres per day. so there's a real motivation

to electrify them, not only from an environmental point of view, but actually also from an economical point of view. standard battery chemistries, can do well. we're pushing our technology into these applications. what is the challenge that you face in the industry that you do not have an answer to? still do not have an answer to? three aspects. aspect of three aspects. the aspect of the if the technology works and can you prove that? the aspect does it all makes sense of does it all makes sense financially and then there is a question of our people ready to change make steps to get change and make steps to get there. jean de la verpilliere, thank you so much. really good to talk to you on the programme this week.

thanks for being with us. my pleasure. that's all for this week. on the bbc news website and the smartphone app. but for this week that's all. we'll see you very soon. bye— bye. hello there. a rather grotty day for many of us on saturday, with low, grey cloud, drizzle, further outbreaks of rain, lots of blue sky and sunshine here in argyll and bute. it's just more of the same as we head through the next few brisk easterly wind. more low, grey cloud and some drizzle. further showers, but always sunnier in the north and the west in the shelter of that easterly wind,

towards the east. of the uk as we head through the day on sunday. this is how we'll begin the morning. so where you see the map tinged in blue, a chance of a patchy frost. perhaps lows of minus seven degrees celsius underneath clear skies in the sheltered glens of scotland, but here further south and east, across england and wales again, some hill fog. the cloud producing some drizzle, showers perhaps across east anglia. maybe something a little brighter developing out but temperature wise, we won't make it much past 5—8 degrees celsius. as that easterly wind picks up on sunday night and into monday. again with a bit of patchy frost, especially where we keep that cold—feeling air, with high pressure out towards the north and the east. the easterly wind is picking up. it will drive in more showers. some of those showers wintry over the pennines, but some brighter skies, i think, for western wales, south—west england and certainly for northern western but a drop in temperature again

in that now—colder—feeling air, and there will be a lot of added wind chill to factor in too. it's more of the same again on tuesday. plenty of cloud, some breaks in the cloud towards the west. england, but do keep an eye on the forecast here. celsius, so below the seasonal average, and there won't be too much improvement either as we head through the rest of the week. so we are set to stay in that colder air. perhaps something a bit brighter later on through the week. good morning. welcome to breakfast with luxmy gopal and rogerjohnson. 0ur headlines today: the sentencing of their killer should not have been televised.

angerfrom the israeli government and shock from families over the gaunt appearance of the latest hostages released by hamas in gaza. the worst part was the emaciated look of all three of them but in particular ely because he has a quite a chubby face usually. you quite a chubby face usually. ’ the film of him, hollow eyes cheeks. 7 four families tell us why they're taking tiktok to court over the allegedly wrongful deaths of their children. labour mp andrew gwynne has been sacked as a health minister whatsapp messages. good morning. a late elliot daly try helps them secure a dramatic victory over france at twickenham. good morning. the weather this weekend is stuck in