going back to the same routine of getting cannot go on. and online — families fighting tech platforms of us wants to fight. wejust want answers to why our children aren't here. we'll hear from all four of the children's parents later in the programme. morning, and with me in the studio the conservatives alex burghart, shadow chancellor of the duchy of lancaster, and our team

the former education secretary, and housing expert vicky spratt. start we always start wealways with what start we always with what is making the news. you will see a lot about this today. in the southport attack. the mirror splashes on that, too. the observer has more on the government's the mail on sunday were the ones with the now ex—government minister andrew gwynne�*s offensive comments and the sunday express says leading tories are calling for a pact with reform. lots of different stories around this morning. let's start with a minister having to quit. it is never moment for government. why a good moment for a government. why keep on getting do politicians keep on getting themselves into trouble like this m essa 9 es “messages pinging messages pinging backwards and with messages pinging backwards and forwards? i with messages pinging backwards and forwards? ., ., ., ., , ., forwards? i have no idea, it has to be more male _ forwards? i have no idea, it has to be more male politicians - forwards? i have no idea, it has to be more male politicians than - be more male politicians than female, i have to say but i've no idea. when you look at all those

messages, what goes through your mm i don't even idon't even think 77 idont zjseeeisk ge? 1 idont zjseeeisk 61:55? head? i don't even think like that so why would say those things so why would you say those things when you shouldn't be thinking them? i think, he has paid the i think, obviously, he has paid the price and that is fair enough. but i understand how, in a public roup, . roup, you can comments £555.51; that " ' lanna}; that are put comments that are so but also awful. you irresponsible but also awful. you are a politician, you know, are bound as a politician, you know, you caught for things you don't you get caught for things you don't do letter doing things you do. he. no the air blue at why no foretelling the air blue at the end of an interview once. i did the end of an interview once. i did and the the end of an interview once. i did and _ they played - the end of an interview once. i did and _ they played i and l the end of an interview once. i did | and _ they played i and it and obviously, they played it and it was and real. it wasn't was authentic and real. it wasn't against anybody or directed at anybody. i was expressing frustration. i was actually problem that hadn't been sold for a problem that hadn't been sold for a problem that hadn't been sold for a long time and i did actually solve it. but you know, iwas a long time and i did actually solve it. but you know, i was expressing frustration at that. you 7553.23 you have to happens, obviously, you have to apologise and. it happens, obviously, you have to apologise and-— apologise and. it looks a bit scrappy. — apologise and. it looks a bit scrappy, doesn't _ apologise and. it looks a bit scrappy, doesn't it, - apologise and. it looks a bit scrappy, doesn't it, in - apologise and. it looks a bit| scrappy, doesn't it, in terms apologise and. it looks a bit. scrappy, doesn't it, in terms of apologise and. it looks a bit - scrappy, doesn't it, in terms of the circumstances of this

but there have been several case but there have been several resignations now, i think case but there have been several resignations now, ithink is case but there have been several resignations now, i think is the resignationsnow: tthink it is the minister to resignetionsnow: tthink it is the minister to stand out in as third minister to stand out in as many months. do you think it matters to the government that they are losing ministers like this? i to the government that they are losing ministers like this? this case it looks it was in this case it looks like it was dealt — in this case it looks like it was dealt with_ in this case it looks like it was dealt with quickly and surgically come _ dealt with quickly and surgically come and i have to say, echoing gillian _ come and i have to say, echoing gillian point, i don't know anyone = _= anyone think about - anyone think about that. - 2 anyone think about that. when i how anyone think about that. when i talk to— how anyone think about that. when i talk to i kids — how anyone think about that. when i talk to kids about things, i say, never hate anyone, - never hate anyone, you - - never hate anyone, you neverl you never hate anyone, you never wish _ you never hate anyone, you never wish anyone — you never hate anyone, you never wish anyone dead, sol you never hate anyone, you never wish anyone dead, so i think wish anyone dead, and so i think that frankly, i think, discovering mana-e many mana -e many crises mana-e many crises as it has had to manage many crises as it has had to manage many crises as it has gone along but one very emotive issue they have had to deal with and we will hear from the deputy prime ina in a second, is grenfell minister in a second, is grenfell �*and the decision to bring it had week there was a fiewn:we hed'this'week'fnere was a bumpy meeting fiewn:we hadthis'week'fnere was a bumpy meeting between angela very bumpy meeting between angela raver and the bereaved and raver and the bereaved families and survivors. —— between rayner survivors. —— between angela rayner and the bereaved families and you are a survivors. you are a housing specialist, as the situation got out of control? ~ .

specialist, as the situation got out of control?— specialist, as the situation got out of control? ~ ., ., , , , of control? whatever happens with grenfell, it i incredibly _ grenfell, it is incredibly _ losing - grenfell, it is incredibly. _ losing people grenfell, it is incredibly- _ losing people you grenfell, it is incredibly— _ losing people you love is emotional. losing people you love is a trauma _ emotional. losing people you love is a trauma bul— emotional. losing people you love is a trauma but to _ emotional. losing people you love is a trauma but to lose _ emotional. losing people you love is a trauma but to lose them _ emotional. losing people you love is a trauma but to lose them in- emotional. losing people you love is a trauma but to lose them in an - a trauma but to lose them ' , like a trauma but to lose therrn'flarr - like that, a trauma but to lose them+narr - like that, in a _ a trauma but to lose them+narr - like that, in a fire, - a trauma but to lose them+narr - like that, in a fire, what i event like that, in a fire, what those — event like that, in a fire, what those - have _ event like that, in a fire, what those - have been - event like that, in a fire, what i those - have been through, event like that, in a fire, what - those - have been through, we never be will never be able to understand, it is horrific — will never be able to understand, it is horrific but _ will never be able to understand, it is horrific. but i _ will never be able to understand, it is horrific. but i think— will never be able to understand, it is horrific. but i think in— will never be able to understand, it is horrific. but i think in fairness. is horrific. but i think in fairness to angela — is horrific. but i think in fairness to angela - she - is horrific. but i think in fairness to angela - she held - is horrific. but i think in fairness to angela - she held a i is horrific. but i think in fairness- to angela - she held a meeting to angela rayner, she held a meeting with the _ to angela rayner, she held a meeting with the - parties _ to angela rayner, she held a meeting with the - parties and - to angela rayner, she held a meeting with the - parties and she - to angela rayner, she held a meeting with the - parties and she is i with the relevant parties and she is taking _ with the relevant parties and she is taking decisions— with the relevant parties and she is taking decisions that _ with the relevant parties and she is taking decisions that have - with the relevant parties and she is taking decisions that have been- taking decisions that have been kicked — taking decisions that have been kicked down— taking decisions that have been kicked down the _ taking decisions that have been kicked down the road _ taking decisions that have been kicked down the road for- taking decisions that have been kicked down the road for a - taking decisions that have been kicked down the road for a long kicked down the road fotalong - something kicked down the road fota .. , - something ' it going to —eee —:£e -:ee _ee to the towefi —== ——$ badly ama -ed. the badly ama-ed. the e very badly damaged. the concrete is decaying _ very badly damaged. the concrete is decaying and — very badly damaged. the concrete is decaying and the _ very badly damaged. the concrete is decaying and the longer— very badly damaged. the concrete is decaying and the longer it _ very badly damaged. the concrete is decaying and the longer it stays - decaying and the longer it stays up, the more _ decaying and the longer it stays up, the more dangerous— decaying and the longer it stays up, the more dangerous it _ decaying and the longer it stays up, the more dangerous it becomes. i decaying and the longer it stays up, i the more dangerous it becomes. that meeting _ the more dangerous it becomes. that meeting was— the more dangerous it becomes. that meeting was always _ the more dangerous it becomes. that meeting was always going _ the more dangerous it becomes. that meeting was always going to - the more dangerous it becomes. that meeting was always going to be - the people insulated. emotional for the people involved. at some _ emotional for the people involved. at some of— emotional for the people involved. at some of the _ emotional for the people involved. at some of the bereaved _ emotional for the people involved. at some of the bereaved families i told me they are -lad she have told me they are glad she is taking _ have told me they are glad she is taking decisions, _ have told me they are glad she is taking decisions, even— have told me they are glad she is taking decisions, even if- have told me they are glad she is taking decisions, even if they- have told me they are glad she is taking decisions, even if they arei taking decisions, even if they are going _ taking decisions, even if they are going to — taking decisions, even if they are going to upset _ taking decisions, even if they are going to upset some _ taking decisions, even if they are going to upset some people. - taking decisions, even if they are| going to upset some people. 0k, going to upset some people. ok, let's aet going to upset some people. ok, let's get on _ going to upset some people. ok, let's get on with _ going to upset some people. let's get on with the main going to upset some people.“ let's get on with the main event, the interview with rayner, like 7 like many 77 7 like many of 77 7 like many of 6 probably 7 itjj " it does: 5 j it does: not: 5 it does not seem it doesznotrseem too 5 it doesznotrseem too much to thinks it does not seem too much to us, a reasonably priced roof over your head. but house prices reached a high this week. record numbers of kids don't have a permanent home. angela rayner has a massive job

to keep the government's promise of a 1.5 million homes built by 2029. of a i the illion of a i the decision she unveiled this week that grenfell tower, where 72 people died, should come down, is a huge moment. to quit, but why did that choice on grenfell leave her under attack from some of the survivors? i knew when i took on this role that this was something piece of work that had to be done and therefore, making the decision was something that i spoke to the grenfell there isn't a consensus. it is devastating, what happened, but what i want to try and do is work with the grenfell community, the bereaved and survivors, place, people lost their lives there, and make sure so i felt, weighing up all of the different conversations that i had,

and the engineering report, who were bereaved or survivors of the fire felt that this was very upsetting. one of them told us, "the government has ruined relationships with the families in half an hour. it was a car crash." defensive, even aggressive. well, i certainly don't feel like i was aggressive upset about that. information, before the decision was made public. but something obviously

has gone wrong here. now, the reason i wouldn't give exact figures is because some is, how many people in one family, how many people are directly connected, like next of kin, for example? there's lots of different complexity to people who were affected. to be really upsetting for people to hear that. i'm not going to go into details of,

well, which family, to the various different views. but what i will say is that there wasn't a consensus amongst any had dangerous cladding. can you tell us right now how many people or how many households will 18 metres with flammable cladding when i became secretary of state.

of them still haven't had the remediation. at the end of the parliament? it is, and we have had seven years and we still... we haven't even had over half of them even put into the programme. surely, you now, as deputy prime minister, one of the most powerful people in the country, should be calling for more pressure, more speedy action? well, it is exactly what i did, i brought them all into a room

action against them, and more legal action has been taken let's then talk about housing more generally, and we know you mean business, and the prime minister says he means business when it comes to building more homes. the process of buying a house, which everyone knows can be a real nightmare. yes. what is the proposal? at the moment, we are living in the digital age it is very paper—led. so what we want to try to do is make sure that we can work digital id and signatories. and therefore, we think that we can streamline that process and make it much quicker. and beyond that? planning regulation, getting rid of obstacles, speeding up court cases.

but since you have been in office, the number of sites and units approved for development has actually fallen, and house well, i knew it was going to be really difficult. we could see the trend, what was happening, and when i became secretary of state, i think within the first month, i was asked, do you want to review what you said in your manifesto around the 1.5 million homes? what, you considered ditching your target well, people had said, angela, this target... when we looked, when we got into government, and we saw the trend, to reverse a trend, but then push ahead. we felt it made it even more challenging. but i was not going to give up on the target. guarantee scheme for new buyers. 1.5 million homes target. but you are doing this in a context

where public money is short to new developments. builders don't always want to build homes if there might not be buyers at the end. the growth forecasts for the government have been it is like you are putting on the brake and the accelerator at the same time. the housing market, at the moment, there is a considerable amount in the medium to long term. to identify the land, have a local plan, and build we have helped the social landlords with the changes i have made

the £500 million that the chancellor announced already for the affordable homes programme, all these measures, including the package around too many people are not getting those homes. 160,000 children are in temporary accommodation. that costs us billions of pounds. we don't expect it to change overnight. these things don't. they take time to have an impact. are you looking forward to having a punch—up with the other parties over that to show how determined you are? we were elected for this because people can see it.

that is not appropriate for them because they can't downsize because the homes are not available. so they know this has to happen. therefore, i'm determined to change things. a poll yesterday suggested that you would be one of the labour politicians who might lose their seats to the reform party i know one poll is one poll, but it is fair to say that as a relatively new government, broadly speaking, you have been well, i think there's been frustrations and i can completely understand people's frustrations. it takes time to turn that around and i am confident that we haven't done slogans. and society for a long time and therefore, turning it around does take a little bit more than seven months. seven months in, you are down there.

we know now that the prime minister had a voice coach. you are a straight talker. look, keir has been completely open about wanting to do his best for this country and i admire him for that. i will say about him is, he won't do what he thinks is popular. what he wants to do is deliver, because there's nobody�*s worst critic to keir than keir. in my understanding of how he works, and my personal experience with him, is he will be feeling it harder if he does not meet the targets could tell him or any election result. was going to achieve. so you are saying he is his own worst critic? he would be, yeah, absolutely.

—— that you said he couldn't run a bath. did you say that? well, i'm not... there's a lot of things that were said in that book that i don't recognise, to be honest. did you not say that? it is tittle tattle. i don't recognise what was said in that book. but that is not tittle tattle, that is what the woman who is now the deputy prime minister is reported to have said sure, and there are were lots of other things did you not say that? people have said about me or anyone else. no, i don't recognise ever saying that to anybody. but we all have frustrations when we are at work sometimes and i am sure people have been frustrated with me at work sometimes. want to bat it away same way you did the last one. did you referrto a: member 7 ,, not sure we're allowed to say on a sunday morning, again, i'm not making any comments about what's said or not said... but do you deny that you called a member of the royal family a nonce? ..that somebody alleged i said in a book. i don't...

i'm not making any comment on what somebody suggests or said in a book, or actually, the private conversations that i did have during the passage of the bill, which did get passed, and i did pass the bill, and i wholeheartedly supported the government at the time in passing the line of succession bill through parliament. but you're not denying it? as i've said, the bill was passed. you know, i led that piece of work. denying 5.7 million people the ability to vote. and it is quite convenient to delay these elections, just not have them. is that what is happening? well, i am glad you clarified, i have not denied there is a delay and the delay is for local government reorganisation, which has been done before. not very many times, we have checked out the statistics. it has been done before.

not on many occasions. this is 5.7 million people. what you can't do, laura, is have an election then within 12 months, you are electing somebody to something that is so to concentrate on the reorganisation, to deliver those powers out of whitehall to local people, there is a 12 month delay. and do you completely deny that there is any sense that this absolutely not. look, it won't be a stitch up because if you are genuinely powers from whitehall, pushed down to local areas through the mayoral model. last question. we have been speaking this weekend to the parents four children who died,

they believe, because they tried after what we have heard from those parents and others over the months, do you think it is safe for children i worry about that and my heart goes out to those families. you know, i am a mother myself. to and what they can see online, it is really dangerous and it is one which will come into effect in march is so crucially important. our children do need protecting from that. you have to understand, if you are in