for the first time. of the killer, axel rudakubana. he served three terms as president until 2005, when an act of parliament formally recognised him now on bbc news, newscast. hello. interview with the four british families who are suing and we've had a message from bev, our newscaster — thank you for getting in touch — who says, "i'm struggling

on the show yesterday." that full interview should now be in the newscast feed so that should be there if you want to listen to it in full. was very moving, so i do recommend that if you have hello, it's laura in the studio. it's paddy in the studio. and it's henry at home. and it's bye bye health minister andrew gwynne! not hello. goodbye. oh, i see what you did now. yes. that's right. it's going to end up in the mail on sunday. yes.

embarrassment. i mean, it's the end of his career, notjust mp in the north west, been an mp for 14 years or so, had what it sounds like is a sort of series of local colleagues, so local party members, local politicians of sorts as well, where they weren't he'd like her to die. is beyond tasteless.

presented that message in a string of other very grim keir starmerand his team decided to ditch him before the story had even been published. so the statement from number 10 said that they wouldn't who fails to meet standards required of them. in the health department. there are ministers now out. someone else in, but also for the government. to lose three is careless. henry, what do you think? well, what's weird about it is that, you know, each of the three, you don't have a story

like you had when, you know, boris johnson, for example, went through a string that, you know, they couldn't, that his government was falling apart or, you know, theresa may losing a lot of ministers in one go. and it was clear that the conservative party had the image of the labour party, which certainly no one holds more strongly than the labour party itself, to personal conduct compared to their rivals, because each a bit of a battering on that front himself, that is not ideal. a lot of what's happened to labour has proven how difficult it is to govern

the uk, because even then sue grey. the other parties had. then we had three months to the budget. long or long enough. we'll say, remember how the labour government of 2024 learnt how hard it was to govern? i think that's right. as sort of having a bit of a virtuous reputation. i think there is something maybe wider this is for two years "mr rules", as you said, he was sometimes known.

it was ever very golden. we should just bring you also what andrew gwynne himself has journalism system works, we rang him or we texted him this morning. i'm sure you did the same. can't we, henry, that this sort of behaviour by backbench mps who are in opposition is very of ministerial power probably, although i think if this had come out, if andrew gwynne were a backbench labour mp i mean, i think even if people

have a high tolerance for kind of private chat with mates, which is what this appears to be, it's at the really extreme end of that. you have to wonder also, for andrew gwynne, who was the person who, if something he thought information to the mayor? on that is the mail on sunday says that at least one other labour mp is in this group. have a decision editorially not to name that mp, but i think why they haven't been named. a year or whatever it may be?

of journalistically tantalising detail in that story. and what might be in the mail tomorrow. yes. and i think, henry, a moment ago when we began the newscast, i think you said it now looks like he could right. i mean, it's possible he'd look at four and a bit years i don't know about that. committee ends up getting a getting a complaint made to them. they then investigate him. there's a world in which they suspend him as an mp for long enough that you end up with a recall petition, and then that could potentially lead to a by—election. we're talking way down the track there.

i don't think the labour party would like any and by coincidence, we were speaking to her yesterday. about andrew gwynne broke. so we weren't able to ask her about her view of that. the place which she described as a sacred place. the bereaved and survivors. there isn't a consensus.

it's devastating what happened. because i would divide this into style and substance. on the substance, i've heard it said that it's deteriorating a decision on whether to rebuild or restore a burnt to so many families. so we know there's an argument to be had about that, criticised about it. which is style, because the deputy prime minister has she took, but the way in which she dealt with one of the people who was in attendance said to us that she ruined relationships between the survivors and the governments.

aggressive in that meeting? and if anyone felt that way, then i would be sincerely upset about that. i think what i tried to do is take a really difficult had that information before the decision was made public. a second political party, such a staining national tragedy, and no one disagrees on that. and it's the question of... i mean, this isn't even really the ongoing questions of why it

happened and, who should be culpable if anyone and so on, which, you know, questions to ministers in the previous government that they, who are deeply traumatised and, you know, i'm sure government minister would go into a meeting like that i think it's been tricky even from day one. i mean, it's always presented a hugely difficult set

revealed, which was that thousands of people were living in buildings with dangerous and unsafe cladding, you've read my mind because there was another fire but there are thousands of families in the uk so actually, in talking about grenfell and what's and that includes people who are trying to get of buildings right now. we in the media are quick to forget them. and i remember saying to myself, i'm going to speak to myself.

so all this talk we're casting doubt on what everyone�*s role more about the state of high rise buildings now. in a way that probably it had been forgotten about more generally for too long. is actually down. this is what she said. we could see the trend, what was happening, and when i i was asked, do you want to review well, people had said, angela, this target, when we looked when we got into government and we saw

the trend, the trend was going backwards. but then push ahead. and they've announced all sorts of things. also the government has announced some things that i think is a bit of a theme with labour government, so they want to get rid of lots of planning rules. houses, but they've put up national insurance payments that builders are going to have to pay. they've increased the regulation in some areas for more landlords. they've hiked stamp duty. i think it is fair to say in terms of the policy that they're trying to do. she's called angie. angie says angela did not mention infrastructure to support new homes being built. schools, gps, transport must be built before the homes as it just creates further problems for those buying new homes and current residents. it's an interesting point.

for many, many years. we haven't built the homes, any government hasn't built if you say, how easy is it to find your own flat, and now they've got their hands on the levers. the further we go forward month to month to month to month, the more it is on them. in the rear view mirror.

it soon becomes who's at the wheel. not what's in the rear view mirror. well, it's interesting, isn't it? henry, can you scan forward? when do you think that labour will feel unable? that for for many years. target as discussed. they have put planning and infrastructure, including the economy, is by finally building things in this country. and so if that doesn't start to happen within two years, one is that people will be able to say, well, that's not happening. you don't look on course, for example, foryour1.5

isn't going to happen. we've seen that politics is volatile. so, it's almost the blame question doesn't matter. the country, then the economy is not going to get going. of blame, political blame, is going to be much less important than than survival. of the sun on sunday, and i said to her in passing, of the government, i said, ah, but what if labour nhs waiting lists?

win the next election. is as simple as that. but we're in the middle of the churn when they haven't got time. there's a time frame thing. and this was true particularly of rachel reeves's speech the other day. and it's also true of housing, which is that so much nettles now, in order to see gains in maybe four years electorate sees things, but conversely, people say that they want politicians who finally take long term in the past. it's almost a bit of a paradox, but i do think it's going

years, which isjust wait and see. these things are coming. just trust the plan. trust the plan. don't ditch us now. you know, things arejust starting to get better. don't undo all your hard work, britain. stuff that this government is trying to do, is, because this is not me being flippant, but it does matter. we all know it in ourselves. this stuff matters. of a new political book called get in, which charts keir starmer�*s rise to power. newscasters have been paying attention. they might see that one of the headlines out of not being up to much. so did she really say that keir starmer couldn't run a bath? well, i'm not... you know, there's a lot

of things that were said honest and it's tittle tattle. so i don't reckon i don't recognise what was what was said in that book. but that's not tittle tattle. and no, i don't recognise ever saying that to anybody. and then what about what she said or didn't say morning, but in case we can bleep it out, did you suggest... what i said or not i'm not making any which did get passed and i did pass the bill,

and the rest of us, as citizens and human beings, seriously and when to think, "oh, that's him deliberately and you talked about that this morning with two very important people. we had andrew neil and christiane amanpour addressing the question of how to triage trump. some of what he says is designed to outcome at the munich security conference. was there a joint conclusion from the journalistic titans of christiane amanpour of cnn and andrew neil of all over

the times these days? i was trying. it was all over the place. i was going to say formerly of this parish, i would never actually, this will really chime with newscasters. confident about the facts. potentially as a cover for doing other things. and andrew neil argued that while some of what the president says is outlandish, politicians could use when he says things like

like a real estate developer. that obviously isn't going to happen, but it raises is that what is to be done with gaza? it has to be rebuilt. can that be done with 2 million palestinians still there? there's nojoy in that. image of the riviera of the middle east. to simply to mouth platitudes about a two state solution it was really interesting to hear. this morning we spoke to president herzog, the president of israel, and we asked him about president trump's plan. and he's somebody who, as a politician, as an israeli politician, used to back

a two—state solution. handed to america. to paraphrase him, he essentially said, needs to be new ideas. even in the uk, people in diplomatic circles believe who will meet president trump soon because this role standing next to donald trump, will be genuinely fascinating

forjournalists and voters. overnight and waiting to see presidency in global diplomatic and economic terms, but also of donald trump. and i don't think it's just flooding the zone. i think it's a man who is, you know, increasingly emerging, perhaps, as the consequential us president of our era. news, but this american news is so significant

to go at a dizzying pace. no, no, no. and you. but the substance that's so it's a perfect place to end. you a lovely time, henry. see you next week. and lies down in a darkened room, which is what so thanks for listening.

live from london, this is bbc news. israeli troops withdraw from the militarised zone

in the us super bowl. palestinians have been returning to northern in central gaza.