we will speak live to ukraine's former president and vladimir putin during the first wave of russia's war —

they and lussian, american they and lussian, i to erican they and lussian, ito bbcn they and lussian, ito bbc news. let us return to munich and that major by ukraine. it represents one of the most consequential might impose economic sanctions if the country refused to agree

in town in washington. president zelensky said he didn't believe the us has in international politics. a reminder that zelensky is currently being zelensky iscu rrently being the zelensky iscurrently being the us zelensky ieebrrently being the us vice president. is either pictures �*comment, we 7 77 the immediately to you here on the iimmediately to you here on the but in last drbqrernrne. belt in the lest hour drbgremme. belt in the lest hour and dreqrernrne. belt in the test hour and a dregrernrne. belt in the test hour and a half, we heard he, “tar"! e be" e'e heed , ~ , ~ ~ ukraine's president.

was emboldening putin. we had some phone calls and he had a phone call yes, you can count on it. ceasefire and that's all. i think what is very important, the meeting, people will not stop. without real security guarantees, we will give him pause.

i don't want it. i will never do it and it is very important for me to pressure putin. put all the sanctions. i think president trump is ready to do that here. he has all this power to do it. president zelensky speaking at that hall in the last thettbwn'hell' in'fi�*re'leet �*nbbr �* so. also thettbwn'hell' in'fi�*re'leet �*nbbr �*so. also there was thettbwn'hell' in'fi�*re'leet �*nbbr �* so. also there was the or so. also there was the republican �* lindsey republican senator lindsey graham. he was asked if he was comfortable with mr trump doing deals with "authoritarian leaders" like germany and france. here's what he said. it matters how it ends. afghanistan poorly, would you agree

sooner rather than later. when talk to people at home, why matters, putin won't when talk to people at home, why unlessers, putin won't when talk to people at home, why unless ers, putin i stops when talk to people at home, why unlessers, putin i stops him. here is what i it's going to happen. in fashion that would interpret from doing it again. in fashion that would inte| do t from doing it again. in fashion that would inte| do you m doing it again. you will arm this guy to the teeth. you will ewmrt�*s a few f465, you will ewmrt�*s a few f—16s, you give them atacms, you will ewmrt�*s a few f—il give )u give them atacms, you will ewmrt�*s a few f—il give them 5 them atacms, you will ewmrt�*s a few f—il give them tanks. atacms, so we have american does not understand what is going on. be the e trump will defend be the best mp will defend be the best thing ill defend be the best thing is, efend be the best thing is, heind be the best thing is, he isi to do a deal with you, i geihg te de e deetwith yebe l. h , ,,,. .. .. ..,, and he geihg te de e deetwith yebe l. h , hh .. h hh and he will defend

i have every confidence in the world that donald trump no third invasion of ukraine. that was joining nato was "unlikely". in the ukraine contact group,

and that's for all the press what the president of the united states would be of both russia and ukraine. vice presidentjd vance addressed the conference, on free speech. just as the biden administration seemed and i hope that we can

and under donald trump's leadership, we may disagree to offer it in the public square, agree or disagree. that was jd vance. that wasjd vance. he has currently been president joining me in kyiv. he thank you so much for being on bbc news. let me start asking you, how worried are by asking you, how worried are you donald, might try an end to this war 6 ukraine there at without ukraine being there at the table? , , ”7 ”7:77 and ”7;sz andl ”7 ”7:77 and i don't unacceptable, and i don't that the president will 7 "with; w "w 7 willdo w because trump will do that because i work with the president trump for three years. i know for for three years. and i know for sure that if we have a plan, a president have a scenarie. president is going have a scenarid. president is going to trump is definitely going to keep it, and there does not exist any plan of general

or kellogg or national security adviser walts or vice president �* it is plane of isense st it ie e btene st trump, and of the for this plan iar this plan is 5 about ukraine nothing about ukraine without ukraine. this is different supply established, and i ukraine. this is different supply estal trumper1d i ukraine. this is different supply estal trumper during — of .,,,,,,. w : time of my presidency, and nothing europe without nothing about europe without europe. this is also key point. with you and with that situation, you cannot find out any other nation in the world who more than we 2:2 7 we pay we pay price = -:::: for that. fjhess-sn ehs: interru -t f°f that bth - inflamm- f°f that bth - interrum- hate to interrupt you, but we're just getting the feet of pictures of zele ns ky pictures of zelensky and th§ e'ef'fiie fit §§l§fi§§¥ ens us tfile e'eeefee et eelefiee’f eee us vice eee eieeefee e eeeee ee us vice ~ the us vice president. meeting, thank so the us vice president. meeting, thank. so much. _ the us vice president. meeting, thank - so much. thank - the us vice president. meeting, thank - so much. thank you, | thank you so much. thank you, all. thank you so much. thank you, all- take _ thank you so much. thank you, all. take care, _ thank you so much. thank you, all. take care, - if- all. take care, guys. ukraine is not ready

all. take care, guysm ukraine is not ready to all. take care, guys._ ukraine is not ready to speak giggine is not ready to speak in . the table, how giggine is not ready to speak you . the table, how giggine is not ready to speak you move he table, how giggine is not ready to speak you move he table, i ow giggine is not - you move he table, will you move forward? i think the this will you move forward? i think the - this conversation - will you move forward? i think. the - this conversation moves the way this conversation moves us forward — the way this conversation moves us forward is _ the way this conversation moves us forward is first _ the way this conversation moves us forward is first of— the way this conversation moves us forward is first of all- - reat members of - great members of the have great members of the ukrainian _ have great members of the ukrainian delegation, - have great members of the ukrainian delegation, you i have great members of the - ukrainian delegation, you have incredible - of our incredible secretary of state _ our incredible secretary of state - rubio - our incredible secretary of state - rubio here, l our incredible secretary of. state - rubio here, we our incredible secretary of- state - rubio here, we have state—mares rubia—here ewe—have - kellogg is gehel, . i; for generthettoggfthe _w- generthettoggfthe _ for us to. cashew _ for us to get important for us to get together— important for us to get together and _ important for us to get together and start - important for us to get l together and start . the e= e conversations that are going to be necessary— conversations that are going to be necessary to _ conversations that are going to be necessary to - the - conversations that are going to be necessary to - the sting j close. =-—t:§ =-—:m:§ =-—:m||:§ to a close. that is all i am going _ to a close. that is all i am going - for— to a close. that is all i am going - for now- going to say for now because i want _ the - —: -=: here for the negotiators and - respective _ here for the negotiators and - respective teams - here for the negotiators and - respective teams to - 77-17 7 7777y0, all. —— responsle close. you, all. —— responsible - you _ close. you, all. —— responsible - you att _ ii h . you'll shout at ._ hear when you'll shout at once! - i hear when ou'll shout at once! ~ , you'll shout at once! absolute avalanche _ you'll shout at once! absolute avalanche of _ you'll shout at once! absolute avalanche of questions - avalanche of questions with leaders, not those two leaders, not saying any more, as i suspect the are going to be ushered cameras-ere going itb'be'us'nered of that room in the next �*seconds �* seconds of you few seconds of you heard from d few seconds of you heard from jd vance, heard very so

pictures. 7 pictures. 7will those deep pictures. they will now get to geteer ieiift: ea: get ass ieiift: e get a more from 7 two 6 two leaders. apologies to break peroshenkorepetegies'terbreek, was peroshenkorepeteg ies' teabree k, was im porta nt. away, that was important. just to �* our viewers is away, that was important. just to �* l happening is away, that was important. just to �*lhappening in is away, that was important. just to �*l happening in munich, currently happening in munich, you were talking about ukraine needing to be there the 6 table. 7 table. were you negotiatingtebteflh’ere yen to hear donald trump concerned to hear donald trump �* in the week earlier in the week appear to make really concessions make really obviodscdncessidns was make really obviadscdncessidns was that there would be which was thettherewedtd be nato for which was thatthereweatd be nato for ukraine, secretary sing them not 7 7 not back e not backto j e not back to the e " 7n3£ ”as {qtiie’béd'e}; and not go back to the borders of did that you of 2014? did that were you when you some of those things before the negotiations even before the negotiations start to end this _ even before the negotiations start to end this war? like can the clear ukrainian i want 7 iwant to remind words effgisfdstw" "7 if maintain peace reagan. we maintain peace through strength. exactly this

reagan. we maintain peace through str used. exactly this reagan. we maintain peace through str used in xactly this phrase was used in the president trump. because peace presidentrtrbmb; because beace weakness is presidentrtrumb; because beace weakness is only m a- ression. we have inviting aggression. we have five red lines. �* one, inviting aggression. we have five red lines. �*one, no five red lines. number ene. ne on the compromise on the savereignty national compromise on the sovereignty national identity compromise ontbesovereignty national identity of 7 e ”tit“ hbethe ukraine. we will never be the colony. ukraine. we will never be the no cotony- if ukraine. we will never be the no compromise 13:1: ukraine. we will never be the no compromise on 1:1 77 77integ7rity77 7 77 77integ7rity7of7 7 7 77 for terrttertat warns e ” " w " "' ” for point number three, compromise on armed no compromise on the armed forces of any limits, forces of ukraine, any limits, because is the guarantee for existing, point four, no existing, point numberfour, no compromise on sanctions, because this is the stre—ng hhhhhhh because this is the strenge . , ~ ~ ~ to keep motivation for putin to keep him at table him at the table—offs point five, negotiation. point number five, no negotiation. point numberfive, no compromise on nato and eu, and president trump is right, i no compromise on nato and eu, and the ident trump is right, i no compromise on nato and eu, and the idea trump is right, i no compromise on nato and eu, and the idea tru we s right, i no compromise on nato and eu, and the idea tru we will|ht, i hate the idea that we will nato membership of mir} 7 with putin. 7 7 with putin. putin? 7 ukraine with putin. putin should not have any veto

e 272 7r7e7d7l7ightj 7re7d7l7ighth7his777 77 red light. this th7e ayyd any red light. thisis the nato member states position 5!) nate member states odsitidn h hh hhh s of 59 ”at“ member states adaitidn h hh hhh s of ukrainian and seeitien et ettrainian i and eesitien et eerainian " , iam and eesitien et eerainian " , i am proud i am introducing ukrainian constitution... the future 7e7:tnfn a inato___ij constitution... the future nate. .. 7 f] 7 -777-7 yourfive points, it'll be interesting to see how much of is taken by that is taken onboard by the americans and the wishiiui nishiiui thinking. but iii what compromises compromises, what compromises you think you could do you think you could make? everything else, of everything else, outside of these five it is these five points, it is possible. that we can these five points, it is possi any that we can these five points, it is possi any the we: can these five points, it is possi any the we should erase any obstacle. we should believe our victory and, believe in our victory and, that situation, i really on president trump count on president trump for that. we should

taste nggqtiation ,. ,. taste shouid iatian ,. ,. taste shouid haste i, ,, ,. tans)" " "n. a. air defence, and with this we understand situation. we should understand~ ~— w ,, this is situation. we should understand~ h — w h this is the state existence. ukrainian's existence. what would be destroyed? you would be destroyed? go it is to would be destroyed? go og - it is - to gefi would be destroyed? go og - it is - to get more | think it is likely to get more sanctions, more weapons or sa nctionsrmorev'ea pans or that sa thifinet'in�*e'fifiéé pons or that has given everythingsthathas come the current white house, 77 7th7ink777777777 777 77 as 77 i757 into 7 into any of to armaments, more sanctions? armaments, more that. ions? am armaments, more that. ions? expect that will don't expect that putin will accepted the position of or position ukraine or position of president trump, i hopejoint president trump. ! hopejointf’ '”” ’ ” we have only one

we can to negotiation stronger. 77 if putin position stronger. and if putin not trump should be decisive enough to give us more decisive enough to giveeus more give weapons, to give more sanctions, strengthened unity and keep tragsattagtic unity and keeohh h h h , h h h hh tragsattagtic unity and keeohh h h h , h h ,, es, and tragsattagtic unity and keeohh h h h , h h ,, hhh and you perform in 77 77t77o7ke7e7j7j7the7 gnpgrt' 77 777 77t77o7ke7e7t7j7the7 gap... of ukraine, to keep the support of ukraine, to keep the support of ukraine i was the president ukraine and i was the president the in a state of of the country in a state of war, and if you don't believe eeeet eee it eee eeeteelteee 77 7 77 7777 your �*eet eee it eee eeeteeheee 77 7 77 7777 your nothing in your victory, nothing happens, will lose. in your victory, nothing happens, - will lose. in your victory, nothing happens, - if ll lose. in your victory, nothing happens, - if the se. in your victory, nothing happens, if the deal that in your victory, nothing happens, if the deal put ”washing, at 7a7n7dput77 77777777a7n7d75ut7io 7 77 7a7n7d7put7 7to vladi7mir7 77is7a7n7d7put7 7to vladi7mir7 77is7b:a7si7c:all77y77o vladi7mir7 77is7ba7si7c7all77y77the adi7mir7 putin is basically the territory russia territory that russia has taken, keep, and sort taken, they keep, and some sort of lung of status is is tatksetaaoetfls “at ~ ' acce pt accept any loss of ukrainian territory. point number if; number

ukrainian territory. point number iii; numbertwo, ukrainian territory. point number if; numbertwo, | ukrainian territory. point number—iii; we1umbertwo,| ukrainian territory. point - number 3b“ two, i ukrainian territory. point number 27 two two, i ukrainian territory. point number if; two what her two, i thatis that is the 71th i757 the as 77 71th i757 the as that 77 71th i757 the 7deal that {57777 77 that is t to teal that is presented'ta you? of territory as russian i want to remind you 77 7i7si7gn7ed77777 isi7gned together that i signed together with president trump so—called pompeo on crimea pompeo declaration on crimea and other occupied territory, it was an absolutely strong message from president trump that the states never 77a7nygécl71pied recognised any occupied territory. i ukrainian territory. tam confident... ukrainian ' . - confident... ukrainianet ' . - . confident... a question to you. if that part, en: ’z:”, n i part of the deal7 put is part of the deal that is put to and that is what to ukraine, and that is what trump considers donald trump actually considers is the what does you ttktraine beam" eeeaeeeeaen' *' w continue this war the americans, can you? the butericans, can you? the but we ins, can you? the but we ins, ca lose ? absolutely. but we cannot lose this and again, please

this war. and again, please learn 1938. in learn the lesson, 1938. in munich. it would be appeasement for the aggressor, that would that would be defeat be losing, that would be defeat of the country. and i know for president he never 7.7 the scenario, accepted the scenario, he will lose, and our strong support, lose. and our strong support; ~ ~ ~ ~ - , america great again, are happy, make777777777 7777 happy, make 77 vgreiat *::m——: 2 w, 1,5, 7, ,, ,, ,,,, 7 bebe " 77 ' 7 bihlikflséiéf 77 7 7 17>f7;107t kflséiéfniéké" 7 again of not russia, make russia a, russia small. one more question- _ russia small. one more question. do _ russia small. one more question. do you - russia small. one more question. do you accepti russia small. one more - question. do you accept now mata is go that nato membership is not go to ., , to happen? the for ukraine. we is7the7homework for ukraine. we prepare our country should prepare our country for nato but not by means but also by means of of freedom,

democracy, means of freedom, rule of law, means 7 means fighting fundamental but means fighting against corruption. have fundamental but means fighting ag. of ;t corruption. have 2 fundamental but means fighting ag. of ;t corrl to on. have 2 fundamental but means fighting ag. of ;t corrl to be. have f fundamental but means fighting ag. of ;t corrl to be done, ave f this position, i want with this pasitifinri wa nt ta have iii: h, fact. just have one principal fact. the future membership of ukraine be {f �* of nato for us since the the us since the the us since t summit th1 us sincet summit th1us sincet eckert: nato. .. 5:57.55? said nato... 5:57.55? said toda , he is no nato. - -g - said today, he is no doubt i has said today, he is no doubt that it has said today, he is no doubt thatitis has said today, he is no doubt that it is unrealistic. ff said today. i defeece—seeretar�*.’ said teday. ! it defeece—seeretary said teday, ! it is before meeting thing's “ft it �*e befe'e "ff�*" putin, and again, i don't with putin, and again, i don't believe that putin will effectively cooperate for implementation of president impten�*ren�*tatian afpresident plan. with this 222-7: 77 7 77|7t7hin7k7it 64357 77 7 77|7t7hin7k7itwas7a 22—7 7 7does7ukraine accept it or does other does: other mata

[acceptreriilatamemher , [acceptreriinatfiemher , [acceptieriinafi audits: , states accept it or not? and any of nato never f i— ——- m states can put situation on but can a hold, but nobody can close a nato door for ukraine.- nato door for ukraine. petro we to nato door for ukraine. petro i _ we - to leave nato door for ukraine. petro - _ we - to leave it e! 77 77777 time to speak to us here time to speak we 5 here on bbc news. just as we were hearing the last answer let me tell you, that not diplomat 7777j7us7t7said777777777 77 7 7 7 777777j7us7t7said7li7stenir71g7 77 7 7 7 7 just said, listening to7 7 7777j7us7t7said7,listening7t7o7jd77 7 7 7 has just said, listening tojd vance's little it was as if they are earlier, it was as if they are to pick a fight with us trying to pick a fight with us so that is quite a he vice 77 777h7e7 77\7/7ic7e 7t70ld 7 there in77 7 7 7 7 there in77 7 delegates there in munich —— de top diplomat. we have more injust a

you are watching bbc news, straight to breaking news from straight ta breaking hews frem we have just

straight ta breaking hews frem we have just those zelensky us 7 us vice 7 77 7had7 77 77 77 7 77 7had7a77 77 77 7 mafaf'gaa " ” ' famine!“ nn it is fnnverfa�*t'fin sissies it is "e the we prepérgttte fff f j ”a”. 7 77 777p7repare,7sai7d7777 77 for 7 for how 7 for how to 7 for how to stop 7 for how to stop putin.7 d have a listen. gig? ' w ' ”f we are to welcome the ukrainian 7777 77 77777ié7d77 77 " ”may 777777 77 ”any 7p7resident zelensky. we had a numberfor conversations, �* of to work on, and the is as ou77tlined, 7 ou7tlined, we the 7 ou7tlined, we the war7 ou7tlined, we the war77to ou7tlined, we the war to come 1ed, we the war77to come to i, we the war to come to a we want the war te ceme te a _,,,,,,, a, , we want the warte ceme te ae w a, ”a w 7 we want want the warte ceme te ae w w w w w we want the coming want the warte ceme te aw w w w w w we want the coming to 2—2—417ww 77777t7h7e77bo7o7k77bbt77 77 7 77777th7e77bo7gk77bbt7w7e7 77 7 7 7the 7boo7k but we want 77 7 7 7 the book but we want to 777a7durabl7e7, 7 7 77a7durabl7e7, 155th; 77 not urable, lasting not the ile, lasting not the kind asting 777not7t7he7k7ind bf i397 77 not the kind of peace is u-oin to have is going to have eastern that is going to have eastern europe in conflictjust a couple years down the road, so have number of good about 7 about h7ow we that we 77 7 "agar 7777777 7 77 7 77 777v74éwm7iia7v7e777 7777 7 we will have more and certainly we will have more in the days, weeks and months come up thank you much. to come up thank you so much. i think what vice very briefly, i think what vice president _ very briefly, i think what vice president said, correct, we are

think_ president said, correct, we are think. for— president said, correct, we are think for american support. have -=7: - have good conversations i today. ourfirst meeting, not last. — today. ourfirst meeting, not last. for— today. ourfirst meeting, not last, for sure, really, last, for sure, and really, what _ last, for sure, and really, what we _ last, for sure, and really, what we need speak more, more, and to prepare 77 more, and to prepare the ? plan, how to stop putin and finish — plan, how to stop putin and finish the _ plan, how to stop putin and finish the war. we could really. _ finish the war. we could really, we want peace very much _ really, we want peace very much. we need and we will contue guarantees and we will continue our- and _ guarantees and we will continue our and our work guarantees and we will continue our and ourwork and will very will i very - to will i very- to see general kellogg in ukraine and _ thank— general kellogg in ukraine and thank you, thank dissesseés thank, yes. thank. —wwwwwwwwwwww vice you, vice president of the for meeting. _ you, vice president of the for meeting, thank you, colleagues, you —?§wzt—fef you so much. thank you so much. thanks. think, thank you so much. thanks. think. - all- _ thank you so much. thanks. think, - all. if _ thank you so much. thanks. think, - all. if ukraine - thank you so much. thanks. think, - all. if ukraine is| think, you all. %? to seak with think, you all.% _ to speak with putin not ready to speak with putin at i table. _ not ready to speak with putin at - table, how _ not ready to speak with putin at - table, how do - not ready to speak with putin at - table, how do you - at the table, how do you move forward? — at the table, how do you move forward? will— at the table, how do you move forward? will you _ at the table, how do you move forward? will you still- forward? will you still negotiate? _ forward? will you still negotiate? [- forward? will you still negotiate?— forward? will you still ne . otiate? ~' ., , negotiate? i think the way this conversation _ negotiate? i think the way this conversation moves _ negotiate? i think the way this conversation moves us - 71,7f7a7u7yaj 77 77 77 7 7 of all you have great is first of all you have great members of delegation, members of ukraine delegation, you have our incredible

of state marco we general we7 general kellogg. is import 77 is import to 77 is import to get 77 is import to get together 77 it is import to get together and have the conversation necessary to bring this nesessary te bring this thing f fffff'f'ffffff fffffff a rteeessargir te bring this thing f , f , ff , , f a that's rteeessargir te bring this thing ff f ff f ff f f ff a that's all to a close, that's all i'm to a close, that's all i'm to say for now because i to a close, that's all i'm to preserve ow because i to a close, that's all i'm to preserve the necause i to a close, that's all i'm to preserve the optione i to a close, that's all i'm to preserve the option i i want to preserve the option i let each year for the let sash gearffsf the f and tet eeeh geerftef the f and our perspective 2—77 z — 177 7 to bring this thing to a teams to bring this thing to a responsible close.— responsible close. we” ta lkin . responsible close. we” talkin: at responsible close. flit e p - talking at meeting. thank you so much for us. where do here withers. where as yet.- we are as we are speaking the 7 the end 7 77thee7ndof77 77 77thee7ndof7in 77 77thee7ndof7ina7 7 at the end of in a week? thank got; extraordinary _ at the end of in a week? thank got; extraordinary week - at the end of in a week? thank got; extraordinary week was j you —— extraordinary week was yellow is place on yellow this is taking place on one is ending and you which i which i thinkfpresident tru m p is but is the desire to the second is the desire to a mentally alter the find a mentally alter the trans relationship, "f"f*fi f — also committed to the and77 , , and7trad7e, 7and on insecurity and trade, and on the security side, think we from7 defence secretary

that 7 that the trumpet 7 iegggthgthgt the trumnet really ministratien reattr;r wants fffffffffffffff ffffff to 77777777 77 77 7p7ri7marily security in europe find 77 7 777f7ind77m7e7ntal 77 7 77 7f7int7i7 7me7ntalchange77 7 risk and will require —at fat is —at is a european countries _,_ that is a change. it europeancotmtriesff . ' . chance. , . fundamental change. it is. can i dive in? _ fundamental change. it is. can i dive in? in — fundamental change. it is. can i dive in? in terms— fundamental change. it is. can i dive in? in terms of- i dive in? in terms of strategy, what is your reading of apparently making efaooarenttgmeeing f f russia concessions to russia even before you get to the negotiating table? put 7 7 put this a isimportant to out this in a bit of context. little bit of context. president trump's call and he-seth's m we re were jarring, it brueeete were ierrier- leg-t it to baffe'f ee a": e) 't to understand, haee haste been court nation conversations stretching to december, when dame ceremonies. and i notre dame ceremonies. and i think some media and leaders fffffff focusing a lot on have been focusing on a lot on sort cut music or some e the actual mm

7bi7t www—fw— wf f; w , 77bitof7pos7itiv7e777777 7777 7 77bi7tof7po7s7itiv7e7in7777 7777 7 77bi7t gin.;.;..f.f..1fhf.f...;ff 77 77 7 a bit of positive in them, a bit of positive in them, a us convinced to including a us convinced to nato, including security including a us convinced to nato, inclu for security including a us convinced to nato, inclu for ukraine, we 77 early caeentee' f�* [wane we eef fffff f ff 7 early stages, there lee-“ww f�* ',"'e-*w we ewf ffff f ff 7 early stages, there were of other positive 7 of other positive he i understand the i think it time to but i think it is time to take it one step at a time.- 777 7 7 to stay with us, but we 7 ”garage... ans, but we 7 7 going st. lose h us, but we going st. lose h u viewersr are going to leseour viewers the but are going to loseour viewers the but continue our viewers in 7 pauljones, who served that is pauljones, who served as to poland under first the first trumpet administration, talking to us, that at the end of that assessment at the end of an extraordinary munich ffffff fff ff gtay stay with security summit. do stay with us on bbc news for continuing coverage of that event. let 77 ago; 777éna77 777637372157 2573 f7o7r conversation. in terms of

convei of :ion. in terms of convei of powers terms of convei of powers and is of the levers of mowers and has vladimir putin,—v.ihatrdoryou see as? vladimir putinfwhatsda—ye- ~ ~ as? .. , those as? i think president trum - , those as? i think president trump. as _ those as? i think president trump, as - using - those as? i think president trump, as - using the trump, as usual, using the range at the time. trump, as usual, using the pressure |t the time. trump, as usual, using the pressure and e time. trump, as usual, using the pressure and the time. the arseeers ffifi' the 7 77 777 777 the areeeere she the 7 77 777 777 the side, enticement. the pressure side, there is of it that include of to that include of to that incll there is desirei to that incll there is desire to . that incll there is desire to lowerncll there is reduced 77 -iiie -iim russia has two conduct the war in ukraine. on the enticement obviously president imean i mean president i mean pr7esident trump that i mean president trump reached to reached out directly to president putin offered president putin andoffered in nations. and e -e 2—277 early7 in saudi in early one perhaps in saudi arabia. i think that raises in early one perhaps in saudi arabia. standing rat raises in early one perhaps in saudi arabia. standing in raises in early one perhaps in saudi arabia. standing in the .es putin's standing in the

is conversationsand lsdesigned the lindsey graham - i whet tindseygrehem seie'? know if you heard to he talked about trying to frighten boththe 77 but ,, ihe77 . the economic, and the economic, 7and he7 also the economic, and he said, f ffff f rare also the economic, and he said, ffff rare earth deal ukraine £15371 7 7 u7kr7aineand are taiking are taiking about pub america are talking about pub if that could be signed, -|m really adds to the pressure on moscow, because trump to underpin that? do you to u thatxin that? do you to u that sort rat? do you to u that sort of? do you to u that sort of [ever rou agree with that sort of [ever of pressure? i agree with that sort of lever of pressure?— of pressure? pressure's russia so that pressure's russia so much. i do think e has been to make tegtrtbutmn haebeeete "wake case, tegtrtbutmn hawbwwete "wake case, including tegtrtbutmn hawbwwwtw we'ew case, including two the case, inttuding two trump, a the case.intl.uding two trump, would e and outcome that clip as well, and outcome as he

were if basically tsetse-e 77 7 77 would've been of what a mm -oorl on president reflect poorly on president trump and i think is reflect poorly on president trump and ithink isa team, to 7777777tear7n7,7t7omake team, to make sure 7777777tear7n7,7to7make sure they and his team, to make sure they navigate this successfully. on the indo question, many mixed signals, we 52.5190! mixed signals. we were to president zelensky listening to president zelensky —— the unit nato question. said we'll continue to press for is fentrnue ts ersee fer that !e a fentrnee te areas fer that !e a that is fentrnee te areas fer that ee a that is going to go that a line that is going to go do you think, here do. vou think a but7 think but think it term. but i think it is again to look at what he77gseth he did ta ke7 7 take7natt7>7 some?” 7 77 77 777f7ul71y not take nate membership futty table, it off the table, he took it off the table as an outcome of the negotiations, he did these negotiations, and he did not that the united z7— to recognise over russian sovereignty over the territory it seized. he said

that is to that it is unrealistic to gain control in this process of negotiation. so, negotiation. so. nate lenski negotiation. so. t-eato lenski said, is membership, as lenski said, is a long—term, longer—term process, prospect for ukraine, 7:57e-—7 7——:e7e_7 as as it does get in negotiatio7ns, removed, in these negotiations, i think a i think that's a relative outcome. i think that's a relative - outcome.- i think that's a relative - outcome. i think that's a relative outcome. , . ., positive outcome. just a final thou . ht. positive outcome. just a final thought i — positive outcome. just a final thought. i read _ positive outcome. just a final thought. i read out _ positive outcome. just a final thought. i read out | quote l thought. i read out a quote from top diplomat of the eu said, listen to the speech who said. listen to the sbeech jd vance, about from jd vance, talking about values, freedom of speech, what is going in europe, she said is going on in europe, she said it was almost that mm m wast in to. your emerita was trying to. �*feur i was emerita was trying tee �*feur i was speaking to the the zzff wf7w the under wf7w the under trump7w w the under trump7is an said the us under trump is an

ally? said the lj terms-trump is an they treat as adversaries said the lj terms-trump is an they trt and as adversaries said the lj terms-trump is an they trt and theyas adversaries said the lj terms-trump is an they trt and they have rersaries said the lj terms-trump is an they trt and they have very ries said the lj terms-trump is an they trt and they have very strong equally and they have very strong vance was and guess i gu ess i gees: in place where i was and and was 77 7 7an&7 7 77 7was7full 7777ana7 1..ng 7 77 7w7;s7 full to the :7-= president trumefand hrs�*eamatrgns which in �* previously. is ie