toa qqbe " k’iuifig’t’; qsbe " k’iui'rig’t’; £55. i ie the us insists it wants a lasting peace. president zelensky says that his country real security 7 real security guarantees. needs real security guarantees. the eu's foreign policy says a russian drone chief says a russian qfqqq— , ,, ., w on shisf ssys s esssisn £1,952....,,,, ~~ on chernobyl nuclear russia want plant shows russia doesn't want the kremlin denies any peace. the kremlinrdenies any �*the peace. the kremlinrdenies any �* the attack. i'm helena glad could join me. i'm helena glad couldjoin me. i i'm helena glad could join me. i can do this bbc special programme on bbc news special programme on war in ukraine. president the war in ukraine. president zelensky says that more work is needed on a plan to end the war as he met with us jd needed on a plan to end the war as he on:with us jd needed on a plan to end the war as he on the h us jd needed on a plan to end the war as he on the h us of jd needed on a plan to end the war as he on the h us of the d munich security conference. the ukrainian president made it that am; deal with must involve real paassia "asst insfi'ss�*sal ' ' guarantees for his

jd vance 7 jd vance insisted the sdld a .a a... sass . "ididléhtm" d|dwanta ”aideqqettjal'faiiet” ,, ”aideqqettjalzasfefiqztiaq us did want a'dgra'crleglasting earlier us did want idgi�*éifilé,’l§§tifig earlier he stunned pegce. but earlier he stunned gathered leaders with a the gathered leaders with a g; :: on their the gathered leaders with a ii; isi on their own in countries, particularly in relation to free lyse relatian. ta free speeds. lyse s reports from relatipn. ta free speeds. lyse s reports from the qaasst rsparts fm'n�*hs ,. , ,, ,, , ,, in germany. finally, �* three years of war, formal talks about peace. we want the killing to stop, but we want to achieve a durable, lasting but he wants this dialogue. we had a good conversation today.

i had a good conversation with president trump. with putin, and he said to me, i think that he, i said to him that he is a liar, and, yes, you can count on it. president trump has often praised the russian we share the view that there has to be

and the ukrainians have to be part of that negotiated deal. took to the main stage, his topic is in retreat. for his aggression against ukraine,

but also the strength of this vital transatlantic relationship. it has to be a lasting peace, but we have to make sure we can get all the training and other on the chernobyl power plant. russia says it didn't do it. of denials from moscow.

stephen �* was the stephen �*was the us ambassador to ukraine under clinton 7 clinton and 7 zzzzzzzzeueioeqedzej ' “marga;gangs; ' ”handling? ” ' "’h5r{dli;g'£h; ' handling the conflict beihandling the conflict beéhandfiling the conflict russia and ukraine �*in some �* in some ways. i would better in some ways. i would like to start with some like to start with. same from president donald this week and the fact he said he held a that he said that he held a phone call with russian president vladimir putin and he said these afterwards he said these will start, in his 7 whatdid words, "immediately". what did make of that when you make of that when you heard it? ., ,., it? i think there are some basic- being - it? i think there are some. basic- being made it? i think there are some - basic- being made by laasis nsista'isss'psing rirsads fay administration. first the administration. first of all, talking to vladimir all, before talking to vladimir the president putin, the president should have spoken to president zelensky, the ukrainian to where president, to understand where ukraine has and not have este talk at have este talk into ive este talk into european este of talk into european leaders , the administration expects europe to be playing an important part in the 77— 22: then he should

settlement. then he should before talking ggild leveraged before talking vladimir putin. z; v— . that they have got gggssrnsdtlsat the- bass ass diplomatic order here very the diplomatic order here very much out of sync in way, m5=mgsfi “i a; é?’¥’§fi% 7 7" will me=m5sfi “4 a; éa’s’ifid ’ 7" will �*job h�*ei“ fi�*i�* firisgi i“ if §i7§7i7fid 7 7 777 will �*job more that will make theirjob more iiii that will make their 'ob more that will make theirjob more order, that will make theirjob more i _ order, perhaps, compared to how some around, compared to how some people might have thought that it would have proceeded, why do you that the trump might 7 might have been clear 77777been cleargoing has been very clear going back eight or nine years that putin has a degree of —e e -e 7 "so; 77 7donald has some de-ree of trump has some degree of admiration for �* putin. admiration for vladimir putin. and that might have had some but7what we have impact. but what we have seen in the last couple of days, i 7637575437 7 7 7655754395777 77 7 unfortunate, for the administration's plans to ? le , broker things. for example, the of 7 starts talking about wednesday starts talking about how, in of a haw. in any kinds-fa ' ukraine get settlement, ukraineseannet get membership, and russia end controlling some of

ukraine's territory. the two biggest the two most 272227 7777-777 777777 77 7 jill gangs; 7 77 7777in7ii5e71-uagea7w7iu —e: firstly how 7 firstly how much 7 is russian territory is under russian control, and secondly, what territory is under russian controi security :ondly, what territory is under russian controi security guarantees: kind of secdtitygdarantees has. it appears at 7 -77 the administration is beginning the sad-rust?” is concessions to moscow on giving concessions stesmescsew on major points and isn't -i 7the7y �*77the7y7got777 7 77 shy gassing �*77the7y7 got7a7r71ythi7ng7 ir717 clear they got anything in return. ., ~ return.7essat§tassfi§ns stasis. - ote ntial return.7sststat§.stfiians’ asses - newm— return.7sststat§.stfiians’ asses - potential for security - tise pstsntiat fer ssssaritg they could like. 7 like. do 7 7 like. do you 7 7 like. do you see 7 7 like. do you toeifssss ” 'i"' 7 like. prepared 57g.-- ” i” 7 like. prepared to, . i- ” i” 7 like. prepared to, you sis ” i” 7 if washington 7 7 if washington sc7ales know? if washington scales do you know? if washington scates do you think can back, do you think europe can fill a potential gap?— clear: where | think the rs'se bescteat: wisere ! tisirsk tise is is that 77 77 77will7ha7ve7 7 7 will have to7 77 77 77will7ha7ve7 to7d7o 7 will have to7do more 77 77 77will7ha7ve7 to7do 5&7er europe will have to do more for its own defence. defence have rise spending will have to rise because there is a very real russian threat. but look at

russian threat. but i look at, ... i and to my mind the best guarantee for ukraine sssdrity gaarantss tar tlis’raifis” "’ " ” be membership. m a..asa.—.;—sasss.2;s’sifaé be to do. that take time. the would take time. the administration now is talking about, europe about, perhaps, europe security forces some providing security forces some kind of security kind of it securitysgdarantee that might be towards ukraine. that might be of possibility, but it is hard to see happening without to see that happening without some kind of american with the secretary defence. i hope the policy did to rule evolves. he did appear to rule that needs — evolves. he did appear to rule that needs you _ evolves. he did appear to rule that needs you to _ evolves. he did appear to rule that needs you to i nato - that needs you to —— nato do think membership. do you think. that a in membership. do you think that a in the sand it comes foreign when it comes to us foreign policy under the trump ississ. sis; s, ., now, now, or you administration. now. or do you is more malleable, think that is more malleable, perhaps a negotiating tactic? well, there is bit of here because the confusion here because the secretary of defence yesterday secretaryofdefence yesterday to walk his wednesday comment but then president trump then said

"well, nato isn't very 7777i7th7ink77this77 7777i7th7ink77this7i7s realistic." i think this is area where another area where the be making a mistake. 7 7 mistake. the7 7 basic mistake. the �*ei�*ij�*its7�*7�*r�*7 77 to have american -oli membership for ukraine without any consultation other than —— other nato than —— with other nato mas-“ass appears be no members. there appears to be no apparent consultation with european leaders. he to eisfissfi'ssdsii hs’s’fissssis�*ss””’" . reversed the of should not be [in russia should not be in the g8, again, with no consultations. that doesn't to be a eggs—11“), way to go with if are asking ’*’;}g'.;;ki’ng’ 75171655 7 ’*’;}g'.;;ki’ng’ 75171655 £07777 flagging asst}; to7777the yod are asking'e'p�*rope' to do the the for h commitment europe; commitment europe and commitment europe and ukraine nmitment europe and ukraine after'nent europe and ukraine after a ent europe a of ukraine after a ent europe a of the aine after a ent europe a of the russia—7sr a ent settlement of the russia— ukraine war. as settlement of the russia- ukraine war.— discussing that it appears the united states has dashed hf“??? stats; has iashsi hiss; of hh'fsi stats; has iashsi hiss; ofjoining nato as us hopes ofjoining nato as us defence secretary pete had settlement his polish settlement with his polish counterpart. he stood by his

in this ukraine 77 77 has”; 1365977 77 7 ukrainejoining nato ukraine joining nato is that ukrainejoining nato is unlikely, as any return to country's 32014 he the country's 32014 borders. he also warned nato allies assuming military on continent wil7l continent will forever the continent will last forever while asking members to 7777777777557e7ri7ciin79fi7| 7 77777557e7ri7¢iin79fi7|am 7 former supreme allied joined by former supreme allied commander europe, general commander in europe, general wesley good to have you wesley clark. good to have you on the president wesley clark. good to have you on the speaking president wesley clark. good to have you on the speaking in�*resident wesley clark. good to have you on the speaking in munich, zelensky speaking in munich, let's with some his let's start with some of his comments, because he said that doesn't to stop the russia doesn't want to stop the war, he doesn't russian ss'ar. he dpesn't trpst persian .,, , ,, ., ,,,,...,, putin president vladimir putin in that regard, despite between president 7777an7dhi7s777 trump and his russian counterpart. are your on russia's intent? l russia russia's intent? l russia russia like tent? l operational pause in the war, especially if they can to further ”i7 assistance to ukraine, get sanctions relieved, and rebuild

sanctions relievsds and six“! �*armed forces for the sanctions relievsds and six“! �*1 of red forces for the sanctions relievsds and six“! �*iofied f i 'ces for the sanctions relievsdi and six“! �*iofied f i don't>r the sanctions relievsdi and six“! �*iofied f i don't believe round of this. i don't believe that that mep wouldn't peace. permanent gace. he doesn't to the 7-1’0 pe arrangement froaen in eprope way it is. he been very the ss'as! it tsus�*sa'sbséssss' . he expects the say it tsus�*sa'sbsesses' . he expects to take all clear. he expects to take all of ukraine will stop moldova, georgia. he doesn't acceptsnato for romania, probab7l7y77 77 7 7 spawns; 7 7 7pr70bably7n7otfor 7 7 he he it rolled back. rest. he wants it rolled back. and this is russian and this is a classic russian approach. let's talk about it, have you stop and disarm, we will rearm, then we will restart when it suits us. hear from, for you hear comments from, for example, the us defense secretary pete as a, appearing rule to role out the possibitityst --. . .- -.-- - . .. .. �*ukraine, nato membership for ukraine, for —— pete dagg sets. for example —— petestlaeo sets .... ... you think that

do yopthipk thatemboldens that you just if secur7ity 7 potentially 7 7 potentially could 7 7 potentiallycould come 7 that potentially could come back for more a later date? pete hegseth. pete heuseth. ~ ., 7 77legally streng tegatty binding seeeirityiis ii ii .. from the 7”... i..,....... —.-... -..,....... w7 -w" ’w 7 back7ing up7the7europea7n77 777 777 §f§f§§ fiaes'fifi be thi edffifisafi which may eeeeee eeee'ee ee tee eefeeeee which may or may not be inukra7ine, 7 us multipliers, as support, intelligence, logistics, 777 etc, that seaportg'etc. that gas are not to seaportg'etc. that gap are not to have a sustainable seaportg'etc. that gap are not to have a 5 so ainable sopoortatc—that’ypoafanpt - to have a iable i sopoortatc—that’ypoafanpt - w have that, then, and you a have that, then, and you a smallerit, then, and you a smaller role en, and you a smaller role from nd you a smaller role