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tv   BBC News  BBC News  February 23, 2025 3:30pm-4:02pm GMT

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and also the us direct financial well, we financial support, well, we will see. �* now we do will see. for now we do not have the financial help that we survived somehow. are have survived somehow. we are looking at other options. if we from drones or if we start from drones or yeari artillery, last year i systems of domestic production were created. that is a record because to -roduce 151; number because to produce 154 systems it is more than of = nato countries 7 nato countries together. i —: = -: it is a serious jump. it is a seriousjump. i think it is a serious jump, ,i this we will be able think this year we will be able to do more. second, i told you that we would be able to i that we would be able to i million drones. we
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z= ”jprozducey ' w fl produce even more. this us survive and chan-e... change... doesn't doesn't change... doesn't the us�*s help, but it replace the us�*s help, but it would be much better their so last year we had support. so last year we had 30% from europe and 30% from m- m 30 and it the us. it was all—151} 31.) and it serious. this year i think was serious. this year i think we will produce 50%. yes, we will fight regarding the will fight it. regarding the war in i would say war in general. i would say . the us will do that the us willrrdfireverything the that the us witlrrdfi'everything the whole that the us witlraa'averything the whole this
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' i think that is ' i think that is their ' ithinkthat is theiraim 7 they ink that is their aim 7 they will:hat is their aim for that is . for that is why possible for that. that is why i am saying that everything... doing everything for that us... yes, without helping us... yes, peace through force, but without helping us... yes, peacet russia iorce, but without helping us... yes, peacet russia note, but without helping us... yes, peace t russia not the it around. 5k news -lease. way alound, . you. week way around, . you. week it was thank you. this week it was said — thank you. this week it was said that _ thank you. this week it was said that the minerals deal he signed in the coming might be signed in the coming week — might be signed in the coming week do _ might be signed in the coming week. do you think that is _ also, _ week. do you think that is _ also, mr- week. do you think that is
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also, mr starmer realistic? also, mr starmer will— realistic? also, mr starmer will be _ realistic? also, mr starmer will be talking and president matron _ will be talking and president macron. how serious is it in macron. hfiwsanfius�*is�*it�*in macron. how serious is it. in �*opinion? do you it your opinion? do you think it is the — your opinion? do you think it is the test— your opinion? do you think it is the last chance for the europeans to trump to europeans to convince trump to be together with ukraine and to secure — be together with ukraine and to secure peace?— ----- ”w in that,... in interested in that,... in english. thank you so much. you have english.
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yeah, it is important because they have to be at table to mind. in europe, who my mind. in europe, who will represent i cannot tell represent europe, i cannot tell you know exactly but i think one person will represent eu and, of uk has to be at and, of course, uk has to be at the table. if we speak, for example, security example, about security guarantees, i said to my partners, to mind, have to partners, to mind, we have to count turkish being count on turkish being present, why? because it is very e=e ”w’iiiiio'wiu" nifiwhoiwillbe; 7 7 7 riiwhorwill be ready who will be ready to us us real number of give us real number of contingents? a real number of ”troops -, w troops or "’£r1;o'p;i;;;'hipsf” 77 "7660sz s; shipsjfleet with all respect to and etc. with all respect to everybody, i think that have about it. yes, also we to think about it. yes, also we have to think about germany etc
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have tethihk aheutfiermany etc think about have tethihk eecutgermany etc think about it we also think about it when we talk to our because talk to our partners because they have been the second e— j of donations. i contributor of donations. i think in total �*the total think 47 in total of the total i think germany gave donations. i think germany gave something like this like 44 or _7—.-a-- ” titan'fa'n’y’o'u” " " 7 ” billion?craniyiouiimagine?’ 47 billion. can you imagine? can you imagine? the united 7” ”77106” 7 "7 "10613th "7 w106 ahd that is 7 w ”77105 ahd that is 50% of states 100 and that is 50% of the united states donation and thenit the united states donation and then it it is a then it is germany. it is a very big help. can we push them out? or very big help. can we push them out? 0rsomebody very big help. can we push them out? or somebody else, very big help. can we push them out? 0rsomebody else, i very big help. can we push them out? or somebody else, i am very big help. can we push them out? or somebody else, iam not out? or somebody else. i am not with all respect to = -: but we have find everybody, but we have to find the steps in regard the table of neotiations. to the table of negotiations. this is crucial for me. to the table of negotiations. this is crucialfor me. of area are a lot of
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course, there are a lot of guys worried like finland and keir - .°%.. - a.-.... --- . of course. these sofcéufiésfthfe’sé people 57:7 very very important and all of are very important and all of are very important and all of are very important and all of are very important, the guys are very important, the guys are very important, the dutch guys are also and they already know us. us. i want to sunbort us. l don't want to further into details of go further into details of contingents during any kind of ceasefire or something like = -: that is 7 that is why 77 that is why i 77 that is why i said is ur-ent visit is urgent visit of france it is urgent visit of france and the uk to the united she! the uh’tfi the emma i eric! the line the hflrtee i think eh.e the line th.e ehrtee i think that states. i think that they will real situations to our describe real situations to our strategic partners and then they will come and i think thetj fill. eefie eeee efie ! thifiis will tfieij fill. eeme eeee eee’ ! thifiis; will have meetings theti still. eee!e eeee eee’ ! thieie will have meetings with eeee filll. eee!e eeee e513 l ifilfifi. will have meetings with all we will have meetings with all of the partners of europe. we decide our next steps. mr
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will decide our next steps thank you for the president.than - - .- and president. thankcyouioctbe _ and you - president. thank you for the and you have opportunity and you have mentioned that the us mentioned already'. a. . e i. to mentioned already thett�*ite—us -m— mentioned already thatt�*he—us - to stop the mentioned already that the "us to stop the war and we are want to stop the war and we are hearing — want to stop the war and we are hearing about russia. don't you that it thatitis that it is a common think that it is a common which intelligence position which intelligence said... plot to use wetseretatd' e e eeee russia... accordinu to said... plot to use weeeratatd' - russia... according to the that russia... according to the because after 2026 intelligence because after 2026 it will be difficult for it will be more difficult for them to fix their problems. [30 7 thinkit' acommon you think it is a common position— you think it is a common position between the russia and the us? — position between the russia and the us? what is your position in terms _ the us? what is your position in terms of the and the possibility 2 you 2 the possibility and
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ee see see the pessilaitits e'e’e eeeeeeeeeeee eeeee does ri-ht why does russia needed right now irr— why does russia needed right now in opinion?— now in opinion? thank you. first of all. _ now in opinion? thank you. first of all, . united - first of all, the united states, they do want to states, yes, they do want to stop the i think that they z= -: §= =— that is the j ”that ' "isth’e'fe’na’f ”that ' mistrheendof believe that that is the end of the war and i am sure that they it's a big success geglly think it's a big success putin would not carry and that ”crash ’ wahdt’hathe wm w 7 77and7t7hat7he would riot" and that he would not go on and that he would not go again. but we think that we need security and we need security guarantees and we understand it is very need security guarantees and we understand but it is very need security guarantees and we understand but we s very need security guarantees and we understand but we wanty need security guarantees and we understand but we want to agree expensive, but we want to agree a ceasefire and secure security our because for our people, because otherwise what about our otherwise—what about our they are serious soldiers? they are serious
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people and they are and are on the7front line and they are on the—front line and we finish the whole stage of if we finish the whole stage of war then these people need to they need to return to war then these people need to �*families. d to return to war then these people need to �*families. if :o return to war then these people need to �*families. if it return to war then these people need to �*families. if it is turn to war then these people need to �*families. if it is noti to theirfamilies. if it is not theirfamilies. if it is not the end of the war, and we do not have security, should not have security, what should they do? do have stay they do? do they have to stay on the front line if there are no for some time and no shelling for some time and should theyjust no shelling for some time and should they just stay and wait and for the next aggression? there will be and there will be uncertainty and is and uncertainty is really bad and everyone will lose if we have z— 7 we lose, 7will lose, because eeee ee .e happy happy and look777777 happy and look like you can be happy and look like a victor if you make a ceasefire but if there was another war, ceasefire but if there was anotherwar, russians ceasefire but if there was another war, russians will prepare and they will launch
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invasion and it is very another invasion and it is very dangerous for everyone. that is why i speak about the end of hold 7 77 77 hold phase and need to the hold phase and we need to understand clearly how it is being finished what being finished and what security guarantees are being given partners, not from given by partners, not from russia, do not believe partners beiiezre and the eerteera heee ee’ is the eerteera heee leelieee'eee'” " ' " is business, 7 thembeck them because we count on russia's words. can't count or! russia�*s words. is my can't count on russia�*s words. is my position. it is from our partners, e"�*e*ehe “em e�*ef eefehefe 7 77 that ene?“ “em itef eefehefe 7 77 thatis ene?“ “em itef eefehefe 7 77 that is my e"�*efeh* “em itef eefehefe 7 77 that is my position. we but that is my position. we can't base our security on words guarantees on putin's words-- he would not come again. that he would not come again. we won't do that. but we are speaking about building security guarantees and i
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z 7 that at least for now, believe that at least for now, army which is able to stand the army which is able to stand is comprised of 800,000. at the is comprised of 800.000. at the of is comprised of 800,000. at the of that stage of the end of that stage of the war people won't be able to go home and i have ordered the to... there is a government to... there is a pilot of 18 to 2a so when the phaseis pilot of 18 to 2a so when the phase is over they have to offer the contract people offer the contract and people understand, but there are people came to this also people who came to this war drafted voluntarily because wart drafted voluntarily because , found wartdrafted voluntarily because, found this has to be they found thistssue has to be the soldiers have two solved. the soldiers have two prepare for contracted army
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prepare for the contracted army of course, it should be and of course, it should be done after the end of the hold of the war. so after the m we have end of the hold phase we have two come up with an agreement that and also things of that phase and also things to think but we have to to think about, but we have to start something and that start from something and that has to be so if everybody hea te eehee'e'erf eeerseees to hea. te ee hee'e�*etf eeertteeee” " " to the phase hee te ee fiefie'e�*e'f 5§5f§§e§é§" " " to the phase of hee te ee flefie'e'e'f 5§5f§§e§é§" " " to the phase of the wants to end the phase of the war then we have to have wants to end the phase of the war the guarantees have wants to end the phase of the war the guarantees for/e security guarantees for ukraine. security guarantees for ukraine-— ukraine. mr president, my ukrainian _ ukraine. mr president, my ukrainian hasn't _ ukraine. mr president, my ukrainian hasn't improved | ukraine. mr president, my l ukrainian hasn't improved as fast — ukrainian hasn't improved as fast as— ukrainian hasn't improved as fast as your english, so i will fast as your english. so i will fast as our en lish so i will fast as your english. so i will english. i wanted
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to ask in the - day we lost to ask in the 4000 and to ask in the day we lost 4000 and our to ask in the - day we lost 4000 and our last _ to ask in the - day we lost 4000 and our last data - to ask in the - day we lost 4000 and our last data says| 4000 and our last data says that 2000 will replace that 1500 or 2000 will replace those troops they lost. those troops which they lost. and those extra 1500 will come. we don't have any information about more. there was a serious e relationship with koreans. they are a real war relationship with koreans. they are a realwarand are starting a real war and spoke to our partners it because 7 it because they about it because they know
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everything now about the everything nowabout the risks drones, everything nowsbout the risks drones, they everything newetnout the risks drones, they are eeeet etehee; eeee�* theg’ ere to career eee'he efiefileeee eeefefeef er? will eee'he efieieleeée {hefeef 5? will base their new... they will base their new... they will take it to north korea and their army and i told them that is a huge them that that is a huge risk for europe. they are also continuing to supply artillery, for europe. they are also continuir to 0 supply artillery, for europe. they are also continuir to russia y artillery, for europe. they are also continuir to russia and :illery, weapons to russia and they use artillery and missiles and ell- m that evidence. have all of that evidence. let's carry on next let's carry on and the next question— let's carry on and the next question to _ let's carry on and the next question to chile. -
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ordered the killing �* him because supposedly he was an russian agent. i need to ask. are you i do not are yeu surehde net knew person are yee surehee net knew person and are yee sureevtee net knew person and i never knew i don't know 7 ~— "idon't know if he him. i don't know if he is intelligence or a representative of or
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representative of russia or not. really, what can i say? if he is russian... he is he is really russian... he is chilean and too. chilean and american too. chilean and american too. chilean american and russian intelligence. it too much intelligence. it is too much information for it intelligence. it is too much information for me it sounds weird and — information for me it sounds weird and it _ information for me it sounds weird and it is _ information for me it sounds weird and it is a _ information for me it sounds weird and it is a really - information for me it sounds weird and it is a really hard i topic. i am not sure that one journalist — topic. i am not sure that one journalist from _ topic. i am not sure that one journalist from - who - topic. i am not sure that one journalist from - who is i journalist from chile who is half american and another half russian is really what is very for our army. i dangereus fer eurarmeel ,, e7 e , manage dangereus fer eurarngl ,, e7 e , manage it. dangereus fer eurarngl ,, ee e , manage it. i'm dangereus fer eurarngl ee ee e e manage it. i'm not didn't manage it. i'm not in such things. interested in such things. finally, how did you receive finally; heiener eirj �*gee receive —e——— — support that finally; heer eirj veg receive - support that our finally; heer eirj yer; receive ——— , support that our government the support that our government in chile _ the support that our government in chile is— the support that our government in chile is still giving to you? _
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lam i am grateful to everyone. thank you. i want to ask about the military— i want to ask about the military production our military production and our domestic weapons. german partners _ domestic weapons. german partners say they are building the second factory and was the second factewend'haes -m_ the second fasten; and he was about production. speaking abeut reared: . speaking abeut rpreduetien. you please speaking abeut preduetien. you please share could you please share details about — could you please share details about our success? what is flying, _ about our success? what is flying, what is not? a number of them i flying. _ flying, what is not? a number of them i flying. we - of them are flying. we have military aims and goals... i can only thank you to our can only say thank you to our military production. these
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three production items are flying and production under way. vladimir putin has and vladimir putin has stopped and because you stopped short and because you are legitimate. you responded are lsgitirnatee �*a'eiu’ reepene’ee ’ ” ’ sayin- he are legitimatee �*t’ee’ reepeneee i saying he in a by saying he lives in a disinformation bubble. could you explain a different a §=7£ =— §=7£ —= §=7£ =— it-like? it like? what what it looks like? what mechanisms create this kind of —eee mechanismscre ' ' and to follow, disinformation? and to follow, sir, disinformation? and to follow, sir. in — disinformation? and to follow, sir. in the _ disinformation? and to follow, sir, in the last week of these exchanges, have you seen any
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potting — exchanges, have you seen any potting of— exchanges, have you seen any polling of public polling of ukraine's public opinion— polling of ukraine's public opinion about your leadership as president? can you tell us as president? can �*gee tailgate ~ —— ~— . — how your as president? can �*gee tailgate ee ee eee e e how your support about how your support is ukraine? currently is in ukraine? thank ou. currently is in ukraine? thank you- not _ currently is in ukraine? thank you- not to — currently is in ukraine? thank you. not to point _ currently is in ukraine? thank you. not to point to _ currently is in ukraine? thank you. not to point to the - you. not to point to the rhetoric of the past week. as for the figures, i am always very and clear and very p’ragn'rat'rs ane steer ane about this, otherwise all solid about this, otherwise all of this disinformation which might be coming from any source, otherwise that might have effect either inside states or europe or in united states or europe or in ukraine. one of the signals as a percentage of people me in ukraine were supporting me in ukraine were spread by the russians. i believe this is 7 attack. iwasn't
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disinformation attack. i wasn't telling with relation to telling that with relation to president trump, i am just saying that he might have certain sources and i think we saying that he might have certa to ;ources and i think we saying that he might have certa to take as and i think we saying that he might have certa to take a and i think we saying that he might have certa to take a look i think we saying that he might have certa to take a look at 1ink we saying that he might have certa to take a look at the we need to take a look at the priorities and think one of priorities and i think one of the priorities would be, having the priorities weeteebe, having dialogue with the priorities woeteebe, having dialogue with me about what happening. there is aiiso happening. there is also the social platforms official, social platforms for doing these poles and social official, social platforms for doing these poles and is cial surveys that everyone is i would draw to them, because 4% attention to them, because 4% and the actual 65% of support ans the asteat eee!e ef sea-pert i have ens the esteet eee!e ef see-pert i have now, is that i have now, this is the number of people trusting me as -, inr’e’sicieii’tw w 77 fl -, 7presidentioifi w 77 fl -, fraige’n’t’o’f'iitai’n’e’f fl -, inr’e’siaeii’t’a'uiniriefi fl -, ifithatientof has; fl -, that}; {a has; fl -, thai}; as has; fl 7' eras}; aisignif’icaht i h i mean, 496 and 6596. this is the mistake. this is the the disinformation information, the disinformation has an influence, so if which has an influence, so if our side won't be responding to
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eer siee wen't lee reepeneing te other information coming that. other information coming in, an there are 500 in, an example, there are 500 million us of ukraine in, an example, there are 500 m the| us of ukraine in, an example, there are 500 m the united of ukraine in, an example, there are 500 m the united states. jkraine in, an example, there are 500 m the united states. these: in, an example, there are 500 m the united states. these are to the united states. these are very dangerous numbers, at a certain point in because at a certain point in there could be some sort document and you might be told that you are keeping silent, you are not showing the eilent eee ere neteheeeieetne you are eilent eee ere neteheeernetne you are not showing eilent eee ere neteheeernetne financialyou are not showing eilent eee ere neteheeernetne financialyou are not or owing the financial documents or structures. at a certain point of time, you might hear that we are not willing to help you any we give you 7 we give you 5070 more because we give you 500 billion and you need that to be returned otherwise there will billion and you need that to be re1 no ed otherwise there will billion and you need that to be re1 no support. vise there will billion and you need that to be re1 no support. there ere will billion and you need that to be re1 no support. there is e will billion and you need that to be re1 no support. there is 4%, l : 5— ” "ifsfsldésiiiisiif ’ h " £566 gram; there is 500 billion, the there is 500 billion, the the all of dictator, the elections, all of thatis dictator, the elections, all of that is dangerous and can we can ukraine. the social opinion that is dangerous and can we can ui ukraine 1e social opinion that is dangerous and can we can ui ukraine and >cial opinion that is dangerous and can we can ui ukraine and outside nion that is dangerous and can we can ui ukraine and outside oftn inside ukraine and outside of the ukraine and among our
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partners. ourforeign partners partners. our foreign partners are partners. ourforeign partners are looking at the society, whether the 7 whether the sub 5 where whether the sub society supports the ukraine or not. if society shows that europeans are ukraine. if the are supporting ukraine. if the starting to leaders are startingto ,, something with their describe something with theil.. , words. if they are starting will have an impact on the opinion, the of social opinion, the opinion of the citizens, so i am not to the words responding to the worsiscorning they are responding to the worsiscerning they are responding to signal coming 77 signal coming from 77 signal coming from the {states 77 {states a ndf {states andfthat was united states and that was dangerous. that is why i believe that any direct talks betieve thatany—direct tatks have a possibility we can we have a possibility we can talk and meet, i we talk and meet, i believe we need have a meeting. for need to have a meeting. for example, there are many talks of the hungarian leader saying
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that ukraine doesn't... i do to go into to -( buti to g( but i want to personalities, but i want to detail this example the very detail this example to the very end. i know there are people from that hungarian leader and they have contacts with people around president trump and they keep raising the question, keep raising the question. that the war has started keep raising the question. t there war has started keep raising the question. t there was has started keep raising the question. t there was he agreement because there was an agreement during the dismember meant of soviet union about the of of nato towards extension of nato towards eastern europe and that was one of the reasons �* putin of the reasons for putin to attack ukraine. that is attack tikreiee’. that is first attack tikraiee’. that is first and dangerous, why? first and foremost, this not true. the foremost, this is not true. the soviet union were agreeing with the united states that
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be no of nato ”w'nato via/earn”; ' ' ”w'nato man?” ' ' "wriaiévvérit’tjéitend ' ' nah; mama and ' ' ' h ' and nato want to extend and would have new members from the europe and was eastern europe and that was before our before before our independence, before the of russia. i the independence of russia. i have a question about how in hungary, that the ee we ., e1”... ee ,, eeeeeeee eeeeee 7 of nato in 1999 and membership of nato in 1999 and was in the list of those countries nato shouldn't eeuntries thatttate ehe-a'en�* to, then how the be extending to, then how the leader of hungary is not raising thisé j raising thiséquzestion? if of raising this ouestion? lf will take a at the of that to putin should not according to putin should not be in nato, then the czech republic, bulgaria, hungary, the baltic countries also... we
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are talking about is there any risk about telling them this. the risk for societies and their countries. isn't it the risk that all of those who joined risk that all of those whojoined nato risk that all of those who joined nato after arrangements of the soviet union and united all of 7... .... . e sig/gulf?” . v... a... e e e e e weeule ee eeeee eee z , sheiifitulizifiz" z z sheiffitulizifiztenit them... well, if ukraine won't be able to withstand all of be able toewithstansi all of on the attack or �* the them on the attack or under the presence of russian armed in their own presence of russian armed is in their own territory. presence of russian armed is why eir own territory. presence of russian armed is why we own territory. presence of russian armed is why we are territory. presence of russian armed is why we are territc that —=:: of this j j of this disinformationj of this disinformationi we all of this disinformation, we can spend on it and i can spend hours on it and i you a detailed gave you a detailed example with nato and i believe that it is a dangerous example and i is a dangerous example and i want president trump to truly want president trump to talk to me. and others who are at the table and not walking the table.
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at the table andnote e '- g the table. ~ at the table andnote e '- g develo - ments at the table andnote ' - developments to recent developments attest to russia's— recent developments attest to russia's intention to get closer— russia's intention to get closer with the well as == that the us will reduce assistance to us. meanwhile, is gradually china is gradualljcdcitting -m china is gradually drifting from russia and maybe we away from russia and maybe we can see — away from russia and maybe we can see china as a option can see china as a big option in these _ can see china as a big option in these conditions? you in these conditions? thank you for the question. _ in these conditions? thank you for the question. i _ in these conditions? thank you for the question. i am - in these conditions? thank you for the question. i am used - in these conditions? thank you for the question. i am used to| tef tfiee eeeee'eh lefi eeee te until tef tee eeeee'ee lefi eeee te until the of it. i fighting until the end of it. i not really... i am reluctant am not really... i am reluctant about talking about plan b at least before the war, least loudly. before the war, our trade with china was
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it was if it was ok. exceptionally big. it was ok. it was higher than. then we had the sea blockade and that is assthey f f ff f as they say. f f as they say. yfesf as they say. yfes fwe history, as they say. yes we can have an economical with and relationship with china and i do not think that china, during our summit do not think that china, during oursummitand our do not think that china, during our summit and our peaceful negotiations, have always e—: f that, particularle maintained that, particularly when matters to the and social integrity ukrfafifhéfff ff ff f ukraine are discussed, ukrfaifhfe fafré difchussfefd, china of ukraine are discussed, china can be engaged if they are can be engaged and if they are able to help us in this in their relationships with partners, may be in terms of forcing russia to the ff integffrfityf,ffff f f e'iétgggit’yfny ff integfrrfitytwhy notf? eareeamay may not f f f may not qust f f
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may notqust pfush afway we may notjust push away partners, but there are no signals about china reachr reach; for reachr for something. taste also zissffizifkngff f ff ff aflsoteleinngo/fithffffffff f ff ff aflsoteleinngo/fithfefuropeff f ff you are's most serious and you are's most serious are already countries are already considering expanding in sucha in such a case. good afternoon mr president, it is a pleasure be here and is a pleasure to be here and thank— is a pleasure to be here and thank you _ is a pleasure to be here and thank you for this am from 7—7f f lam from - t in hongl = -f kong, china. we have observed that the — kong, china. we have observed that the ukrainian government is making _ that the ukrainian government is making various attempts to achieve — is making various attempts to achieve but it is not successful. we ;-—e—:ee: ee eeeee e ee eee e eeeee e i+e—e: ee eeeee e ee eee e eeeee e = -f ff-f f l-f_ f
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a lot of public voice in the _ society- a lot of public voice in the society for peace, ukrainian society for peace, under— ukrainian society for peace, under this kind of circumstances, what does for circumstances, what does _ for the - circumstances, what does _ for the role ukraine hope for the china role in this— ukraine hope for the china role in this ukraine's succession of - and — in this ukraine's succession of - and peace _ in this ukraine's succession of �*and peace restoration and war and peace restoration and future — war and peace restoration and future reconstruction? we are going leave that news conference there. and volodymyr zelensky speaking in to leave. if you would to carry on if you would like to carry on watching online please watching that onlinepleaese go the bbc website. hello, this is bbc news.
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germany goes to the polls — in one of the most consequential elections since reunification. president zelensky says he will give up his presidency — i'm ready to do that. ican i can it for nato, if there is a condition, tanks in the occupied west bank — as israel steps up a military operation — expelling residents of three refugee camps. around world continue to v pope.
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