this is bbc news. which is straight after this programme. now that he's back in the driver's seat, if the courts get in his way, thenjudges could be with ukraine and europe — with ukraine and europe — to the evident delight to the evident delight

of vladimir putin. of vladimir putin. my guest is victoria spartz, a republican congresswoman born in ukraine. is she all in with trump, wherever he's taking america? congresswoman victoria welcome to hardtalk. spartz, in indiana, welcome to hardtalk. congresswoman victoria spartz, in indiana, let me ask you a very 7 7 7

strategy upside down?

too much, wasn't really dealing correctly with russia. the war didn't start and wouldn't have started. what he inherited right now, and probably understands a lot of other leaders are afraid to tell the truth, what it is really he's doing within his country, and how he didn't get the country ready for the war. he's, you know, put his militaries injail. he was elected in 2019... he did, you know, accept, i have no...

create dictatorship with his friends in kyiv, centralised a lot of power, prosecute military people... going to believe their ears when they hear you say in march, you said, "this is a genocide of the ukrainian "people by a crazy man" — i mean, you meant putin at that union and communism." that's what you said after the russians invaded ukraine. i100% agree and stay behind this word.

i'll give you an example, when i went to ukraine — a week before war started, maybe two weeks, zelensky was telling, "we are going to be cooking zelensky was telling, "we are going to be cooking shish kebabs on may." i'm like, "what are you talking about? "you need to get the country ready. "you have an invasion coming up." "get your people ready." that the united states is going to attack us. so, we were preparing. you already have war going on since 2014, i mean, putin is opportunistic, he's evil... er, yeah, you know what? congresswoman spartz, you clearly — because i know have been through over the last three years. you know what a defence the ukrainian military has put up to resist russian aggression.

so, why will you not acknowledge that, and acknowledge also that you disagree with your as a dictator and says they started the war — that died in freedom. the ukrainian people, but i just want to differentiate my support of the people, and brave, not getting ready, not helping them, not providing equipment and support, not actually creating corruption, so, i do have understanding of what's happening, and i do have full support.

i said i fully support and i understand the sacrifices they've done. but i separate people from their leaders and government, and sadly enough... when you constantly accuse zelensky and his government hang on, itjust seems to me... because all of you — your government knows it. ask your government how much corruption — everyone is afraid even to give money. even biden was afraid to give money because hang on, this is, this is... that is a reality. it's a sad reality. i want to keep this conversation. you want to have a hard talk? let's have it. i want to keep this conversation under some sort of control. yeah, sure. elon musk is essentially accusing the us government sure.

and his government are auditing and tackling corruption so, let's leave aside corruption and ask you why has even begun. it's a sad reality. corruption, but the magnitude of it is becoming... i'll be honest with you, when i went to ukraine.

but going back to what you were saying about president trump, you know, ukrainian military was not prepared when i asked democracy has speed and agility, on a long—term so, no—one got ready. people are dying. nothing was prepared. help barely at all. and taking picture ops. putin understands only weapons. y—you haven't answered

my question at all. back in the spring of 2022, when we last saw each other, in northern ukraine, where your family is from. "bombing from russia." what do you think your grandmother thinks of the position you take today? in ukraine, most people — that's why he has low approval rating — and there is no doubt that putin is a true evil, anything else about him. it's terrible what he did. betraying your own people, when you have an old leader sabotaging the country and playing politics with the people that died in the front line, so, that's a sad reality. that's why he's doing

more presentations. ukraine is going to prevail, but in the short run, the situation is tough, and it will all depend, what's happened then in... do you think... ..ukraine, russia, and everywhere else. being at the negotiating table? because right now, trump's approach is only to engage i think the only thing that can be done right now, putin will not move further and stop this war from escalating further. and then it will depend what ukrainians are going to do. they're going to have elections.

it will depend what leader they elect, ukrainian people did significant sacrifice. not losing the war. ukraine is not ready, or europe, oranyone, to fight that war. a maga republican, do you care that in europe right now, there are many political leaders who believe that nato is in grave danger and is probably doomed? friedrich merz, has just said, "my absolute priority "is to strengthen europe and european defence, "to achieve independence from the united states, "this administration —

i actually have a very strong support for a variety and maga supporters. and i'm willing to have productive conversations do you understand that in europe, there is a feeling nato does not have a future? as a ukrainian american, care about nato having a future? they've been playing politics a lot, and they expect, to become stronger, you know. and people accuse of trump

and other people, saying that, let'sjust be, like, very realistic, because until russia's mingling there, it was impossible. what is on the table and what is not. how much money we send to replenish nato, congresswoman, i know you've got talking points, but facts do matter, and the fact is... financial and military assistance, if you add it if you add it all up, have given more than the americans to yeah, the way how they

calculate that is different. 0nly weapons matter, 0k? let us stick with the idea of money and economics, he is focused on a transactional set of relationships. he clearly sees a future for an economic partnership with russia. but also, when it comes to ukraine, trump has zeroed in on the rare earth mineral resources of ukraine, and he put to zelensky a deal which would give a guaranteed thing for the americans to do?

with united states. that's why we're going to be defending the, 0k? a political partnership. not... weapons from china and still putting sanctions on russia and doing all the trade, then you start wondering that is the reality. so i think economic partnership actually would be a national about that, because if we have american companies involved in ukraine, if things are happening, you will have much more stability for ukraine and protection for ukraine. if, as seems is the case, the united states�* message to ukraine is, you're going to have to live

if that is the outcome, the historian niall ferguson — to donald trump — says this. "unalloyed appeasement", few weeks "have bitterly disappointed those of us russia, "iran and north korea". do you not see the message that trump is sending to the wider including china, could be very dangerous?

that's an appeasement. putin didn't move under trump. trump inherited all this situation. at least them moving further. are europeans sending right now weapons and troops there, let's just be realistic. we need to figure out. but at least, you know, we need to stop them advancing further, start advancing further. by depending on their gas and oils, by having business a lot of people are dying, but ballistic missiles are not landing in capitals in europe. they don't see what destruction is happening.�*s happening on the front line. these people would freak out if they see what these people are fighting with. so we have a brave people. they stopped, thanks to the military, they but reality is reality.

a lot of people are dying, but ballistic missiles are not landing in capitals in europe. the»; dgn't ssg'fihat ”w �*s people are fighting with. they stopped, thanks to the military, they stopped them taking over. but reality is reality. resolution, i think, of this issue. yeah. let's move from foreign the united states of america. efficiency are doing to the federal government. but are you also delighted that in the course of trying to slash jobs across the federal government, he appears to be compromising safety he appears to have fired people at the us centers this looks like chaos, rather than efficiency. no, it's actually —

i grew up in the soviet union and if you remember, hayek said, the definition is centralised power of centralised government. we're doing too many things and nothing is good, and we have a lot of problems everywhere. is the state function, what is the federal function? and we need to do better. national defence. and we need to do significant reset because, as i said, it's like a titanic. but unfortunately, we are not. we are like a titanic, on the collision course. and if we want to avoid it, we need to have some big, serious moves. and elon is trying to push some government, and that's what i'm working on.

yeah, it's interesting that right now, the congress isn't really able to effectively push back that they're operating in doge in such a flawed and haphazard way that to give them control of treasury payments, if the courts continue to rule against them, they are going to take on thejudges. is america going to be a democracy if the executive branch starts to intimidate the courts and the judges? judicial system is important. equality of rights. but ultimately, congress is broken and i...

it's congress's fault not to do its job. and we barely look at the rest. it's all about the money. until congress start doing itsjob, of the house and the senate. yeah, well, i've got bad news for you on that front. savings from what doge is engaged in right now are about $4 billion, and elon musk promised that he'd be able to save two trillion. it's simply not

going to happen. what's in these branches. but ultimately, all this needs to happen in congress. so we have to start working with them, and i think that is my goal. and senate republicans to deliver on these policies. right, you say that is your role. isn't your number—one role to defend democracy? you are in the legislative branch. you're an elected politician. second term is a slow... well, it's not slow, it's a slide into a new model of autocracy. he calls it "competitive authoritarianism".

in this new america. well, listen, actually, we need to see who these think government programmes that we try to see where corruption is. to find, the bad things that are happening in government, article 0ne branch. notjust for one administration. and congress needs to start exercising its power and responsibility. courage to do the right thing for the country. congresswoman victoria spartz, thanks. thank you.

hello there. with a band of heavy rain clearing eastwards, it was a day of sunshine and showers. next couple of days, because sunshine and showers remains very much the theme. nights to be expected — particularly for the middle to the end of the week, when it will turn fine and dry. here, it's a milder start to the morning —

still a brisk, westerly wind, but lots of dry weather, temperatures just a little lower than they were on monday. clear, it'll be feeling cold. the showers fading away, and temperatures will drop very close to freezing. starts to push in. some of the driest conditions and the best of the sunshine temperatures slipping back again once more, and we can expect to see another frost perhaps and for the rest of the week, well, here's that area of high pressure starting to build in from the west — and that'll keep us fine

and dry for much of the rest here's the outlook for our capital city — lasting through the weekend, as well. but how sunny will it be by day? bye for now.

live from washington. this is bbc news. world leaders gather in kyiv, pledging more aid for ukraine, full—scale invasion. to discuss ukraine and says a truce could be agreed in the coming weeks.

for starting the war. hello, i'm ritika gupta, welcome to the programme. against a resolution, condemning russia's war. for talks, with the french president saying discussions between ukraine and russia could be agreed to in the coming weeks. our top story from washington. present flag!

it was an optimistic president macron who came