with france on a ukraine peace deal and present it to the us. the united kingdom, along with france and possibly one or two others will work with ukraine on a plan and then we will discuss that plan with the united states. to stop the fighting. in the last hour prime minister giorgia meloni visits downing street to meet sir keir starmer before this afternoon's leaders�* summit. afternoon's leaders�* summit. in the coming hours president zelensky will also meet king charles. welcome to the programme. welcome to the programme. ukrainian president zelensky

is in the uk and will attend to start in about two hours. the turkish foreign minister, nato secretary general and the presidents of the european commission and european council will also attend. the italian prime minister, giorgia meloni, has already come here to downing street and met sir keir starmer. he told her they approach the issue of the war in ukraine with a "very similar mindset".

ms meloni said it is "very important to talk to each other". talking about the summit, she said: "we are all very committed about a goal that we all want to achieve, which is a just and lasting peace in ukraine. i think it is very, very important that we avoid the risk that the west divides. i think on this the uk and italy can play an important a role in bridge—building." this morning, sir keir spoke to the bbc live on sunday with laura kuenssberg — he was asked for his reaction to what happened in the oval office on friday

between president donald trump clearly, you know, there's a lot of tension. the cameras were on. nobody wants to see that. but i spoke to president trump. i spoke to president zelensky. obviously, we then had president zelensky to downing street yesterday. and i spoke to president macron after that and then to president trump. and the purpose, or my driving purpose, has been to bridge this, if you like, and get us back to the central focus. and as a result of the meeting yesterday, we had quite a long time with president zelensky, then president macron and president trump on the phone. we've now agreed that the united kingdom, along with france and possibly one or two others, will work with ukraine on a plan to stop the fighting. and then we'll discuss that plan with the united states. so in those calls on friday night, through the meeting yesterday, into the calls again last night, i think we've got a step in the right direction, because, as i say, nobody wants to see what happened on friday. but it's really important that we keep our central focus, which is lasting peace in ukraine. nobody wants any more bloodshed. and everybody wants to hear the details of what the proposals might be that you are trying to get agreed. but what happens matters

so much, because it's about the trust and the relationship between the two men at the centre of this, president zelensky and president trump. president trump said it's difficult to do business like this. he made it completely clear that he didn't have, in that moment, very much sympathy for ukraine. he was berating president zelensky, telling him he should be grateful. and i think, prime minister, anyone who's known you for a long time would have a pretty good guess that you would have felt deeply uncomfortable watching what played out. did you? yes, i felt uncomfortable.

a number of times. i've met him twice. we had a long session on thursday. i'm absolutely clear that's what his motive is. i agree with that. president zelensky agrees with that.

kemi badenoch — the conservative leader — what were the guarantees around that? we certainly shouldn't be doing it on our own. we support him in that. that we have for ukraine. people know what we did under prime ministerjohnson ukraine, but also in

maintaining our national berating president zelensky? i watched it, and i couldn't believe what was happening. he was being humiliated. and difficulties we might have during negotiations, because the only person who would have liked that... would have been vladimir putin. inafew in a few minutes will be by alistair campbell, formerly for a spokesman for uk prime minister, tony blair and now host, we will be

minister, tony blair and now hos alistair ll be a few minutes on bbc? in just a few minutes on bbc news. before i am joined news. before then, i am joined by the former swedish "gig thgfgfmgf éwséish ffimg thank you very much on 7 i 7 today.iknow 7 i 7 today. i know that have been ttqetjzjetqhiq " ' ’h1;;e1,’e’e;m’g”hi; éfiii'c'at ' you hauebeen. highly critical. the way you houoooon. highly critical. the way the us conducted of the way the us conducted that in the oval office presidevnt zelensky on with president zelensky on take us your friday, take us through your thoughts since then, on what but it's a but it's a week, it's a week, probably been a horrible week, probably the worst week for the transatlantic in transatlantic relationship in times. started monday modern. times; stortoo'oofztonoo�*f a . modern. times; stortoo'oofztonooy a shameful vote where the with a shameful vote where the lined up the to defeat hei— and the o defeat m ukraine and the europeans and everyone who wanted say everyone who wanted to say that ducted aggression. with 7? trump: dictator, president golooskx oietoto-�*e '” it president golooséy oietoto-�*o w it culminated with it

show. primaril the vice horror show. primarily the vice president's demands, president criticising president ways “smf 3:55??? b???“ n 7 7 7 ways that “smf ef'éiif'iéi'if: d???“ n 7 7 7 ways that was “smf 3:55??? b???“ n 7 7 7 ways that was truly zelensky in ways that was truly in every single remarkable in every single way. do think in your do you think in your countries, have been pivoting to this new have been pivoting tothis new of working, is way of working, which is somewhat different to the rules liege; order previoursly377zjlzg 275: previously? i 7 w that this they will wake up in nightmare, they will wake up in the world will be what it used i fear that is not c-oin to be, ifear that is not going to be, ifear that is not going to be, ifear that is not going to be case, we have an to be the case, we have an american that american administration that has made america a that destabilising and that is is destabilising and that is clearly, explicitly, against z: -:: "1th 555.1 n

7 not 7 7 not respecting 7 7 not respecting what 7 7 not respecting what we clearly not respecting what we europeans as europeans see as fundamental for hour is the for hour security, that is the integrity and sovereignty of integrite o'o’o' =fi¥=r=laflt¥fif ' willing to ukraine. not willing to really to president putin conform to president putin because to peace, and beeauee to aehie�*seeeaee; vane ~ certain that = that, he wants to be appoint that, he wants to be the peacemaker, it is not going to be possible if we don't ukraine and put e. uuuou ,, 7",ij o” a, a " whir’p’u’tihf' ’ " wmripiutinilf pressure on mr putin. if you don't put pressure on mark 7= sorry tointetruptrthe trurop say that administration would say that president trump was a president trump was given a by the people lead as she sees fit, mr m is the point that war; the point that war on the point that war on ukraine e point that war on ukraine is joint that —mm the war on ukraine europe has not four—year, europe has not been able to bring this war to an end, he wants to try to do things differently, do you things differently. do you it is things differently, do you it is possible that his think it is possible that his approach will actually lead end to j end to this j end to this war 5 end to this war sooner than have happened ?

it! ight’ofthie’rfii ee ftet�*e’ he e’e’eitee? 7 ' don't it! igfit’efihe’ffii ee ftet�*e’ he e’e’eitee? 7 ' don't think ifiinget’hefi'fiee' he§e7 he heehee? 7 7 don't think think it 7-on- to going to be possible without pressure on russia. if is no on russia there is no pressure on russia whatsoever, mr is going continue. during continue: during these weeks to continue. during these weeks the americans have where the americans have made all u—turns and giving up concessions and giving up positions, russia one millimetre, in its they continue on their 7 77—77 77777 77 77 th7e77y sagas; 7 7 77 th7e77y hitherto; defensive, they make clear that any military they have any military advances they have on the table, and then remained on the table, and then to believe that to say to mr please could you give is my opinion, of up? is in my opinion, out of reach. ., ., , reach. today leaders hanging in london today— reach. today leaders hanging in london today for _ reach. today leaders hanging in london today for the _ reach. today leaders hanging in london today for the summit, l reach. today leaders hanging in | london today for the summit, do londontodayfor thersuromit. do think londontodayfor thersuromit, do think deep, strategic you think a deep, strategic rethink is required, we know that they want to also to that they want to also trytew — . —— out to that they want to also tryte——— — . —— out to america to try to

reach out to america to try to �* relations 777 77ti’y try to ensure that the us is to: be to $55.5"; that the hq is; 7 ——— —— ——— — —— ~ . |n t“ the t“ e'tetj'e that the !!s is: * ,,, 7' m ' '* ~ ' in sort of guarantee going security guarantee going but you also think security guarantee going b that, also think security guarantee going b that, europeink security guarantee going b that, europe needs 7 rethink rethink of 7 rethink of how strategic rethink of how it does things? i strategic rethink of how it does things?— does things? i do. ithink short-term, _ does things? i do. ithink short-term, i— does things? i do. ithink short-term, ithink- does things? i do. ithink short-term, ithink it- correct, prime7 minister _s tryin-i 77 77 777 7777777 777777777 is tryin- to repair that strate . ic damage. beyond that strategic we clearly dealing ; -:7 trump administration 7 trump administration tha77t with truroo administration that, , e ”a a, ,, ,,. a a fundamental with trumo administration that, , e ”a a, ,, ,,. a a fundamental difference has a fundamental difference strategic that strategic outlook that defines the interests of the united the interests of theunited fundamentally different states fundamentally different before. what on frombefore; wi�*akhaocrened on wasn't just frombefore; wi�*akhaocrened on wasn'tjust hiccup. it friday wasn'tjust a hiccuo. !t 7 not friday wasn'tjust a hiccuo. !t , not even a conclusion of was not—evenra conclusion of we have seen during the few 7 few weeks from the 7t7rump last few weeks from the trump administration. if you see and —= of vice president defend them of vice president vance in encounter, that vance in that encounter, that not a temporary thing. that is not a temporary thing. that is not a temporary thing. that is something that we would have is something that wewould have live with, for at least

to live with, for at least seven years, possibly longer, :_—7:e§ will7 have to 7 7 will7 have to adjust 7 will7 have to adjust to 7 will7 have to adjust to it. we will have to adjust to it. thank you very much for you very y°u very i ii us you very i; ii us well. i y°u very i; ii us well. iwas y°u very i; ii us well. i was watching your us as well. i was watching your discussion with mr stewart on friday, and your reflections on what happened on the oval what happened on the antrrr— ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ i think it's what office, i think it's what everyone still wants discuss eyeryone still wants to discuss try to how that and try to understand how that might is happening here in 7 here in london. 7 7 here in london. i 7 today here in london. was one of those it was one of those moments that— it was one of those moments that was_ it was one of those moments that was potentially epub t it's feltike

t it's felt7ike a making. it's felt like a making it's felt llkea w making. it's felt like a really big really bi- m really, reallybig rn. -- - . - and really, reallybig momenhpr - and - that's l history and whether that: w?— out to be history and whether that's - out to be the history and whether that's , , out to be the case, turns out to be the case, depends— turns out to be the case, depends on what of the dependi onwhat leaders: a, . a. to do depends onflyhat leaderaofthe - m_ depends onsyhat leaders of the to do now. which is why world to do now. which is why today's — world to do now. which is why today's meeting is so i agreed with itzeish everything that the swedish premier nestor sat there, it it premier nestor sat there, it _ it was - premier nestor sat there, it it was utterly where j: _—7 j: disgusting, where the person that projects as the that projects himself as the - leader_ that projects himself as the leader and the that projects himself as the leade�* hasi the that projects himself as the leade�* has clearly not a very -ood deal 2 a very good deal here. he a massive mistake in a massive mist thin- z=t z _—t iojijgdiw -n ' no...” toothe. ' - be someone that toythephone to mr putin.. , a” be trusted, someone that toythephone to mr putin.. , a” be trusted, someon that t truth, someone wouidn’t think oi that eeuidntue after that eeuldntomfrblethrreof _ m_ that eeuldntomfrblethrreof _ after a peace - that eeuldn't'oeeeiete thin'e of after a peace deal. to talk about zelensky and then to talk about zelensky in terms — and then to talk about zelensky in terms of which frankly, you wouldn't _ in terms of which frankly, you wouldn't talk about your worst enemy — wouldn't talk about your worst enemy those terms. enemy in those—terme—eyen —— he had a enemy in those—terme—eyen - he had a little joke though he had a little joke after— though he had a little joke after the meeting �* his after the meeting after his meeting with keir 277—2’2'zl7 ' ’£;;f—:7m"'mf ' ’% he talked about did i really . about— he talked about did i really about him as a dictator,

-iiie struck me was the 2 struck me was the extent what struck me was the extent to which— what struck me was the extent to whichjd to who are - is on me, who are member is on record i saying. — me, who are member is on record i saying. i— me, who are member is on record saying, i don't really care 7777t_777t7777 7 777tt7- tries pour pour petrol t pour petrol on t in and tries to pour petrol on the phone. i is given in and tries to pour petrol on the phone of is given in and tries to pour petrol on the phone of the is given in and tries to pour petrol on the phone of the intimidation the extent of the intimidation - bullying the extent of the intimidation bullying was going on, t ttt7 t_tttt though7t president zelensky 7 i thought president zelensky behaved remarkably restraint, and remarka bestraint, 2:52:25: behaved remarkably restraint, and actually, confirmed as i confirmed as i and actually, confirmed as i saw— and actually, confirmed as i saw the _ saw— and actually, confirmed as i saw the _ and actually, confirmed as i saw the clip can be made and actually, confirmed as i saw the clip with can be made not there. _ t _t' there, the 7 saw the clip with can be made there, the -uy is 7 there, the uy is an 7 not there, the guy is an not there, the guy is an absolute hero and i think that absolute hero and i think that absolute hero and i thi. ,,-. is how— how absolute hero and i think—that im— absolute hero and i think that how the bulk of absolute hero and i think that is how the mask bulk of the is how the mask bulk of the people _ is how the mask bulk of the people around the see people _ is how the mask bulk of the people around the world see 7tt him. _ people around the world see him. and _ people around the world see him, and a lot of people are 7t a lot of people are 7t with: of people are - with ukraine. earel standing _ him, and a lot of people are standing with ukraine. keir starmer when _ standing with ukraine. keir starmer when he _ standing with ukraine. its: " starmer when he spoke to new pc starmer when he spoke to new pc earlier today wouldn't draw on earlier today wouldn't draw on eagliertoday wouldn't draw on commentary, he said specific commentary, he said he specific commentary, he said he didn't want add to the didn't want to add to the didn't want to add to the outrage his focus now is outrage that his focus now is outrage that his focus now is getting on with a plan and getting on with a plan and european leaders here in london leaders here in 777777ehey 77 777the7y7still7 today, they still will want us 77 777the7y7stillwill7 7 77 77 777the7ystillwill7want77 777 77 777the7ystillwill7want7us777 7 today, they still will want us today, they still will want us to be of that plan, won't today, they still will want us to be part of that plan, won't to be part of that plan, won't they? strategically, how do you they? strategically, how do you think they move forward, then? think they move forward, then? are absolutely right about you are absolutely right about

that and — you are absolutely right about that and keir starmer is absolutely right not to keep ramping up the rhetoric. people like me — ramping up the rhetoric. people like me who are outside and get very angry— like me who are outside and get very angry and we can express that— very angry and we can express that anger— very angry and we can express that anger and that's fine, but ithink— that anger and that's fine, but i think that's keir starmer, i think— i think that's keir starmer, i think we _ i think that's keir starmer, i think we are lucky to have keir starmer— think we are lucky to have keir starmer there right now is someone that is serious, can clearly— someone that is serious, can clearly play that brokering rote. _ clearly play that brokering role, his meeting today is incredibly important because the truth is, friedrich mertz, they— the truth is, friedrich mertz, they seem to be new german chancellor has been clear since the moment he won the election in germany a few days ago, he was _ in germany a few days ago, he was clear— in germany a few days ago, he was clear that you thinks it's been — was clear that you thinks it's been a — was clear that you thinks it's been a strategic strip shift in the mindset of the united states— the mindset of the united states and that means europe has to— states and that means europe has to adapt to that. i actually think we should have been — actually think we should have been quicker to adapt to that but it's— been quicker to adapt to that but it's not happening. that's partly— but it's not happening. that's partly about the words that we will see — partly about the words that we will see today about solidarity for ukraine, but it also than about— for ukraine, but it also than about the _ for ukraine, but it also than about the deeds in terms of the defence — about the deeds in terms of the defence and security arrangements that we make. it is unthinkable to imagine that you might actually have to be

having — you might actually have to be having a _ you might actually have to be having a discussion about whether nato can continue to exist— whether nato can continue to exist in— whether nato can continue to exist in its present form. it's unthinkable to most of the pebble _ unthinkable to most of the people who have grown up since the second world war to think that america would not see it this security working alongside europe — this security working alongside europe as being fundamental to its own— europe as being fundamental to its own national interest but there — its own national interest but there is— its own national interest but there is debate about the world that we — there is debate about the world that we are in. so, i think is absolutely— that we are in. so, i think is absolutely right that there is point — absolutely right that there is point slagging off donald trump all vance, you think

ahdzbelt politics, i think it's getting beyond the about getting beyond the and the gett7in977 r—i t:i:itittz getting to the and getting to the practicalities. what you practicalities. what do you think trump will be to it when he what has one on in out what has gone on in this meeting is due to meeting that is due to take place in london today to mark, of the things in terms one of the big things in terms of security guarantees he's been talking about in terms of security guarantees he's bee sequencing out in terms of security guarantees he's bee sequencing ist in terms of security guarantees he's bee sequencing is that erms the sequencing is that there has to be a deal, and then the us will about what it if he was might do. if he was making a deal, discussed this early deeizt’disicusseid'this eeritr one deeizt’disicusseid'this eeriyr one my other guests, want to know what he first. in terms of the what do you segugncing. what do you think i segugncing. what do you think to be orticedléfe' �*7 seouencingy what do you think to be or even r�* segugncing. what do you think to be or even really tguzmg'ysyhead or even really what makes trauuntn's, he what makes tick. understand what makes him tick. but thank— understand what makes him tick. but thank you for 7 podcast, rory t podcast, rory and t podcast, rory and i t - podcast, rory and i spoke the podcast, rory and i spoke the podcast, rory and i spoke i the other— the podcast, rory and i spoke the other day to demand that to the other day to demand that has written these four books donald trump, he about donald trump, he was making — about donald trump, he was making the point is really to

understand donald trump, we understand donatd'trum -, .. to understand donatd'trurnp, we to understand that he 77t now, he 7 now, he probably - now, he probably is. | i now, he probably is. it t-tt tt—_tt tt—t_t tt—t_ tall to hitout what he is all to him about what he as ratings, he sees as ratings, he is obsessed with— sees as ratings, he is obsessed with how— sees as ratings, he is obsessed with how many are sees as ratings, he is obsessed with how him. ' are sees as ratings, he is obsessed with how many people are watching him. of course, with how him. of are watching him. of course, diplomacy and politics at this _ and _ watching him. of course, and politics at this diplomacy and politics at this it's diplomacy and politics at this level. — diplomacy and politics at this level. it's _ diplomacy and politics at this level, it's much more serious - it's - more - diplomacy and politics at this it's more serious that. i-think than — level, it's much more serious than that _ level, it's much more serious than that i— level, it's much more serious than that. i actually think than that. i actually think they— than that. i actually think they really big mistake that they— than that. i actually think they really big mistake that was — they really big mistake that was made the other day, unless made the other m was made the other day l - was made the other day. unless was deliberate which i it was deliberate which i it was— was made the other day, unless it was deliberate which i believe it was, you've events believe it was, you've events in the — in the — believe it was, you've events in the white has, why did he believe it was, you've events in the white has, why did he have — in the white has, why did he have to _ in the white has, why did he have to have to have the whole have — in the white has, why did he have to _ in the white has, why did he have to have to have the whole of i media _ of the — have to have to have the whole of the media in there who have to have to have the whole of media in there who of the media in there who normally those situations are normally those situations are normally thosesituati - to normally thosesituationsase - m_ normally thosesituations are to be there for a few expected to be there for a few expected to be there for a few pictures. — expected to be there for a few pictures, a couple of words of pictures. — expected to be there for a few pictures, a couple of words of - and _ pictures, a couple of words of and they're out welcome _ pictures, a couple of words of welcome and they're out they t _t7 that's the 7 no, welcome and they're out they go. that's— welcome and they're out they go, that's the purpose of that that's the purpose 7 . that's the purpose of- that's the purpose of that whole thing people are go, that's the purpose of that so—called... turned it into so—called... 1632 00:19: so—called... you turned it into a futt— so—called... you turned it into a full on — so—called... you turned it into a full on press conference which _ a full on press conference which then became a full on row - zelensky— which then became a full on row zelensky who is probably sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e we --oin to e sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e we --oin to sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e we -oi about this a serious sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e we -oi about this stuffious sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e we -oi about this stuff too sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e w so, i about this stuff too sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e w so, i about this stuff too sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e w so, i think this stuff too sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e w so, i think this 5 is �*f too sitting there thinking. when ——ee~~~~———7——~——e w so, i think this 5 is a too much so, i think there is a future _ much so, i think there is a future meeting for heaven's can we make it - can we make it morei between - rown between -rown up tt7 t t7

t _t1t7 t t 2:7 7; e t tt- through detail than turn the whole — through detail than turn the