it security guarantees beyond nato's current eastern flank for 20, 25 years. however thanks to neil melvin. let's speak to the former director of strategy, and arms the summit is under my. nato.lhe scummitisuncier way, leaders talking european leaders talking things over right what do you over right now. what do you will be the main topics? think will be the main topics? main topics is how 7 the , 7 the piece 1 7 the piece that z 7 the piecethat : be handle the piece that may be of the coming out of the rapprochement the us and russia. the between the us and russia. the issue being if the us issue now being if the us pushes ukraine into some kind

peace, how the europeans of peace, how can the europeans by the uk provide led by the uk provide how can they peacekeepers, how can they help solidify that there is :—: z talk of an eeeh. eevfie fists, et�* en. idea eeee. eevfie eel'e: et�* en. idea that alternative piece idea that could come up with and they could'cfime up with end they could'cfime up with end the and russians to try to build the piece. of course, it is with eieee; qt eeeree it ie eeith in the room eieee; qt eeeree it ie eeith in the room as other allies and well as other allies and the european so a european union so a united front to try to bring peace to tfefif te tf’f te efiee eeeee ee 7 conflict tfeef te tfe te efiee eeeee ee 7 conflict as tfeef te efe te efiee eeeee te ' conflict as an tfeef te tfe te efiee eeeee ee 7 conflict as an alternative the conflict as an alternative to a potential us and russia deal. �* , to a potential us and russia deal �*, . to a potential us and russia deal. �* , ., ., , deal. tet'e leek. étffihég'fifigf' e ou deal. tet'e leek. etethet— fifete e ou think are deal. let's leek. etethet firste you think are the chances what llqlj think. are the theetes success? what llqlj think. are the thehtes success? we what yet! think. are the thahtee success? we will the what yet! think. are the thahtee succ of .? we will the what yet! think. are the thahtee succ of .? plan nill the what yet! think. are the thahtee succ of.? plan inl the what yet! think. are the thahtee succ of.? plan in the the details of a plan in the moment. but of a plan that is mement eet eta eteh'fhet e ' ' " ' up mement eet eta eteh'fhet e ' ' " ' up without the us and presented do you then presented to them? do you think that it's a strategy that then presented to them? do you think work? ; a strategy that then presented to them? do you think work? i a strategy that then presented to them? do you think work?-egy that - then presented to them? do you think work?-gy that - then presented to them? do you think work?_ that - then presented to them? do you think work?_1at. could work? i think it is a reality - the _ could work? i think it is a| reality - the europeans could work? i think it is a| reality . right europeans could work? i think it is a| reality . right europ the state; is going to try united states is going to try to push �* peace, the us has a lane, not a large, not the largest

been a large, not the largest supplier of weapons to ukraine, been a large, not the largest supplie us weapons to ukraine, been a large, not the largest supplie us support; to ukraine, been a large, not the largest supplie us support there lraine, been a large, not the largest supplie us support there will e, without us support there will tremendous difficulties for be tremendous difficulties for the ukrainians to continue and the ukrainians it! centinee end prevail. the ukrainians ta cantinee and prevail. so the ukrainians ta sentinee and prevail. so if the us is to prevail. so if the us is going to ukraine into some going to push ukraine into some of or kind of stalemate or diminish support, the europeans will have to come up with the us is in providing f the weaponry f the weaponry and f all the weaponry and ammunition and money, really have to and money, really you have to try to stabilise a conflict wee, e—= m t is somehow. so i do think it is inevitable whether this will happen russian terms, ef= f zf= the can come without the europeans can come together and tegether anti ae’eent” towns the us and alternative towns at the us and ukraine can support and that russia will therefore buy into. kind of things do see what kind of things do you see europe doing? is it a boots ffffgfrbjrideff f f f ff ffffgfrtf>ufrtdf7fhowf f f ff ffffgfrtf>ufrtdf7fhow mafnyf ff ground, how many countries the ground, how many countries involved, are the kind of practicalthings? the us has already said _ practicalthings? the us has already said they _ practicalthings? the us has already said they are - practicalthings? the us has already said they are not. practical things? the us has i already said they are not going to peacekeepers so if is any stabilisation

theree any etaeiteatien er peace in longer term peace in ukraine, it will have to include boots it will he'e'e te "e'eee eeete the from other on the ground from other countries and i would much rather see that, boots e f on the ground as a peacekeeping force. macron is force. france, macron is approached the idea of already approached the idea of boots on the ground in a different context of the peacekeeping context, it has to be europeans. it won't be ee eeeeeeee iteee tee eee certainly ee eefeeeeee ee �*eee “ee "e f certainly no ee eefeeeehe !e �*eeh eee ehe' certainly no one ee eefeeeehe “a“? ehe' certainly no one will trust us, certainly no one will trust russian friends are in a country like that, for the europeans will have to provide europe/ans withave to provide stabilisation that peacekeeping stabilisatienrthet from being prevents russiens frem'being to do this again. find the role of the us here about the role of the us here as a kind of backstop? what do interpret that to a potentially mean? i honestly think this — potentially mean? i honestly think this is _ potentially mean? i honestly think this is much _ potentially mean? i honestly think this is much more - potentially mean? i honestly think this is much more the l potentially mean? i honestly l think this is much more the us its role. think abandoning its role. i think the us is going to try to seek a broader rapprochement = —a they are looking for russia. they are looking for mineral from ukraine. == don't seg the us offering i don't see the us offering security or even any

security guarantees or even'any threat russia if n ww www ”to n ”77 ”ww 77to try to russia chooses to try to restart the conflict. i think will have to be european 77 the uk security guarantees. the uk working with nato working together with nato allies to provide outside the states provide some kind of lasting peace. iii; even more peace-g : - even more emphasis we; 2 - even more emphasis on peace-g : - even more emphasis on the puts even more emphasis on the of puts even more emphasis on. the of this significance of this summit going on right now. fr—fé w is trul m it is truly extraordinary when you look at it the fact that turkey is in the room, poland, sweden, and the nato sweden, finland and the nato secretary from the european 2:2 ' ’ threheiaidrnh ' ’ threheiaidoffir 7 7 7th7e7head7t>7f7the commission, the head of the european council. these are euflapsah qqhqeie; thsss ears in europe been countriesfi'n eurcipe'have'been and worrying 7 strategic 77 about the strategic applications of the us from europe or lack withdrawal from europe or lack leadership from what of leadership from nato, what that measles this of leadership from nato, what that wzusllci this is really that would mean. this is really a historic as kay *—**— ’ *—**—— ’ starmer said, for the uk, for nato to stand up

europe, for nato to stand up and say that they can defend european the european interest with the denudation of us it is denudatianief usfibfiflta it is ideal denudatianiefusialaeut. it is ideal but they have been 52— §j5= extraordina events comin- the extraordinary events coming out washington in that white out of washington in that white house have forced a shorter aim on starmer and the eu. in a sense, does 77 sense, does that sense, does that mean european in the thateurepean'nat'icrns, in the step, a thit'ellfqpéfifl'fi-fitififis', in the step, a significant first step. a significant in defence spending, increase in defence spending, getting that up pretty quickly and significantly? the netherlands saying like the netherlands saying they are going to 2.5%, even they are going to 2.5%, even the uk, are already 3% the uk, poland are already 3% and finland sweden and rising, finland and sweden to the highest levels going to the highest levels since the of the war. ”�*e the sec! of the ni �*a'e e 7 ~ — e — that'll ”�*e the ehe�* a? the ni �*a'e e 7 ~ — e — that'll have to this holiday after the end the is holiday after the end the cold .iday after the end the cold war after the end the cold war where he end the cold war where the end we re were serious europeans were not serious about their

mm diminishing their greuhd even riiminishing their greuhd even the riiminishing their greuhci even the uk, the riiminishing their greuhci ev�* their uk, the riiminishing their greuhci ev�* their ground e iirrritigg of their ground limiting of their ground this will have be forces, this will have to be reversed jej: if this dog reversed because in this dog dog world that us is eat clog world that the us is in here, eat dog world that the us is in here, ground ushering in here, ground power, naval power, airpower at these old ideas of power, had power will have to compact, not that will require power. and that will require unfortunately across—the—board unfortunately across—the—boa rd in defence unfortunately across—the—board in defence spending. increases in defence spending. trump has been for 77 77 for a long 77 77 foralong and 77 77 fora long and he77 77 has 77 has support from mark head saying on point donald trump has bee! right. he is right. face it, so many just we were countries just thought we were in this post had power world, and russia and china really advantage 7 advantage of that and7 have took advantage of that and have been pushing the other direction for such a long time, power. ? n really exercising power. sweden eliminated its entire ground

army, it used to be one of the most in europe. most formidable in europe. finland maintains a power they recognise both at because they recognise both at the the threat that the deer the threat that opposes. other european are the countries are limited the budget are fiefefiee eeeeee e513 efe fiéfiifig relearn art of hard fiefefiee eeeeee e513 efe fiéfiifig relear russia t of hard fiefefiee eeeeee e513 efe fiéfiifig relear russia and hard fiefefiee eeeeee e513 efe fiéfiifig relear russia and china are security. russia and china are pushing back on that rules is order. you can't based order. you can't outsource security and outsource securityand before margaret has stoltenberg before margaret has been pushing back. this is a case where trump was right, but case where trump was right. but way case where trump was right, but way he case where trump was right. but way he has out in month had very month had very awkward inth had very awkward inti the i been very awkward for the in a europeans in handing russia a victory. europeans in handing russia a victo -. , rhetorical victory. just back rhetorical victory. just _ back to i rhetorical victory. just l _ back to the fi'teee�*g’ejeee'eeeh—t. ta the in london that it is summit in london that it is going on right we are pictures �* emmanuel seeing pictures of emmanuel macron handshake and seeing pictures of emmanuel iii h