and now if velma pospekhov's luck with my poker is developing, then the steps are a good thing. e the one that we have a fashionable gospodarka and sleep i svk soviet we look, being, i'm like a villain everything that such people reign for this. i'm here and put the shit on moaning on this. all the same, i would like yes, my scottish people to tell their history, any violent paragraph, their own right to have their authoritative history written, because this is not just, uh, a geographical object this is the history of people. our any any locality

any person is here and he is connected with the whole history of his ukraine, that is, the ice from the krajina and the forest of a person for everything are woven. and this is where you can get it. uh, hate takes through such a right and show it less so that they well people appreciate their passing. we started it in this, as if a support for the future.

program in script we are our guests today igor merzolyuk, chairman of the standing committee of the chamber, representative of the national assembly of belarus and vadim lakiza, director of the institute of history of the national academy of sciences belarus we are meeting on the eve of a sad date. uh, the anniversary is on the eightieth anniversary of the khatyn tragedy. why did khatyn become a symbol of all the burned villages, because it was not even a dozen of such villages not well, as you know, and not ten thousand burned in belarus. well, firstly, close to minsk, some utilitarian things also played here, so they are here, but it so happened that it was khatyn that became this object. and the reasoning was different. i want to say that and when we talk about wanting about past realization about the creation of this complex, it is very important national project of belarus - nationally

emphasized the project. it was not easy, but it was for the belarusian leadership to achieve that he also received all the allied support, because in moscow there were people who opposed, and the creation of this complex, including minister of culture fursov of the ussr that's but pyotr mironovich mascheroval people to wait and it happened in khatyn. it just symbolizes mass destruction. she symbolizes the complete destruction of the village, she is here such a symbol. of the genocide and what the belarusian people experienced and just remind you that belarus is the most affected country of all the german-occupied republics in europe, the most affected country, we have the largest losses of civilians. and therefore it was

right that this was done thanks to this complex, when we say about the bathing, we are talking about the destruction of our population, then this symbol certainly pops up. he became familiar. anyway. at the institute of history with my colleagues within the framework of working groups, which is engaged together with the prosecutor general's office in the investigation of the criminal case , the study of documents. sometimes discussed and asked the same questions about. why is this connected and came to the conclusion that everything that concerns khatyn. this is a symbol today. this is an accomplished historical fact, the creation of this memorial complex. day today uh world famous such. uh,

the symbol of the tragedy of the belarusian people, the enocide of the soviet people and the belarusian people , the symbol of all destroyed, burned and affected villages. more about numbers today i will talk and try to find a connection from the cattle, but no history, who confirms and does not see. this one. there is a version of this connection that is not based on any sources, because it is purely sucked from the finger, what type, and in order to allegedly mix the tragedy of polish officers near smolensk, the cats took a settlement that is similar in name, but er destroyed by the german nazis. that's why khatyn was chosen for this place, no documentary evidence. in some let's say correspondence. it's a hoax

, that is, you know, uh, there are versions created by fantasy, either by journalists, or by people who make these stuffing, and the historian, uh, is based on documents. if there was such a document, if there was such a justification, well then we would agree, but as far as i know of such a document, there is none . but they have nothing like that, that is, my colleagues have never published those who were engaged in specialized, so here. well, i think that after all, in any case, it played a role, after all, and logistics, purely related with the fact that hmm is not far from the capital. and what is this territory, about which we are talking, this is a very active partisan zone , a very powerful partisan movement in this territory was and therefore these things played their role, because, again, the belarusian image of the great patriotic war, which finally canonical belarusian these historical narratives were

formulated hmm just directly rewarded than when we are talking about creating the image of belarus fighting against the nazis. who finally here is a full-length from the brest fortress to all the other nuances, it's just the sixties and seventies, but then belarus film even partizan was called a film as a joke. yes, but this was precisely due to the fact that, uh, the really belarusian flat partisan movement had no analogues in the world. uh, because if we talk about scope, then we are the first in the world. uh, they can compete with us. only its nice. this is such a reason for competition actually, but in fact, if we say about the active resistance of the people occupied on the territory of the occupied country, then we then praise and then greece, these are the three peoples who really showed some recent activity. how many villages repeated their fate? yes, we just recently literally

completed. uh, this is the first stage of the work of the interdepartmental e working group created and by order of the prime minister of the republic of belarus uh, this working group included 30 e scientists. uh, institute of history academic scientists museum workers, archivists, lawyers and representatives of the general prosecutor's office, and we analyzed, uh, several dozen, uh, data presented to this working group , objectively reasoned study of all documents, uh, characteristic criteria that were used earlier in relation to this list of khatyn, which included 186 settlements and came to the conclusion that today this list. e, ha khatyn is supplemented with thirty settlements, one

settlement, if the parent region has four, the minsk region. and everything else too i’ll tell you on the ninth zero of the third year of 2023, the general list of, e , settlements destroyed and injured, because this one, e criterion for the victims or partially, yes, and the victims e, it has 10.961 settlements and may be work. uh, this interdepartmental working group does not stop even from the prosecutor general's office and regional ones. uh, our country 's six prosecutor's offices today received, uh, lid data on more than 11,700 localities. this is according to the documentaries. e sources as a result of interrogation of witnesses are still alive alive and now the task of scientists and members of this working group is to objectively analyze

all controversial points, so as not to give an opportunity for certain criticism later. as for the questions that may arise, i will say five main criteria. it uses e, the four main ones have long been from the book of the genocide of the belarusian people, as the so-called black book, then without a statute of limitations e, it is used, where more than 9.300 settlements, points and the fifth criterion are included. we specifically approached this and worked out worked with e-lawyers in settlements that suffered as a result of property damage to housing construction, housing and utility buildings, administrative cultural, educational and religious objects, regardless of their total number. these are the affected communities. this is the correct approach. uh, here, uh, i think, as a historian leader. uh institute. uh, as

a member of this working group right here. today we see a map of the affected settlements. she, uh, is available there too. in principle, there is no one free place and every resident, probably, of the republic of belarus and many neighboring countries that remember, uh, the tragedy of the history of the great patriotic war. they can bring their settlements , their tragedy to point to their e, close relatives for everyone, this is the historical memory that sits deep in the soul. at the beginning of the program, you said that not everyone, especially the top leadership of the soviet union , wanted to have a want to be a memorial complex. and why is it also because of the one who destroyed it? why were they silent about it? you understand, we had such a dictation of the soviet germans. and some little bit of some kind of demand of the incomprehensible, which

runs around. but when we talk about belarus, there is another very important point. and the belarusian nation gave the minimum number of those, the minimum emphasized the number of those who collaborated with the nazis, but simply numbers in various calculations from 20 to twenty-seven thousand. there are those who collaborated with the germans with weapons in the hands of this ethnic belarusians, who served in various methanes, but in german units. they were opposed uh, 374,000 in partisans. and this is without a reserve? from these 374.070%. these are ethnic belarusians, i emphasize ethnicity. why am i emphasizing such an important point, because there is a myth that supposedly the partizans are the nkvd officers, the infiltrators, that there was no

belarusian, that it’s all the rest. moreover, olesya home was right a thousand times when she called the partisan war of belarus a crusade of children, because up to 50% of those who fought partisan detachments were people aged 15 to 25 years. and if i'm not mistaken, 16% are girls now why well, because in khatyn, and belarusians were burned along with the germans and ukrainians, ukrainian nationalists lived. and it was very unpleasant, including for the soviet leadership of ukraine, which did everything possible and impossible not to focus on these things, and there are still people who say. why tell what you see? why were the latvian policies destroyed and which later became part of. well, why? well, why talk about

the lithuanian police, and the second one has already been told a story? why do i think you should just not confuse two things. uh, there were ukrainian nazis, there were ukrainian radical nationalists who relied on hitler, and there were people ready to cooperate with weapons in their hands on the side of the invaders, and therefore i believe that silence about falsehood always gives rise to even more monstrous myths. here, what myths, let's say, there are myths in khatyn today, first, because it really happened. that's when this collection of documents came out. yes, it is dedicated, just here there are only documents. that's what he's called. eh, the killer of khatyn. and how was fate the punisher of khatyn, some of

them managed to escape in different ways. the last of them, vladimir katyuk, died in his bed on the banks. we all know ontario. yes, yes, even today, even on the internet, wikipedia gives lists of names of those people by family who participated in the destruction of the village, there are meleshko and vasyura and katyuk, who was deprived of canadian citizenship for 10 years, but the ukrainian lobby achieved. uh, ukrainian water, diaspora, they returned it to him and did not give out the criminal who personally took part. they're the fact that those are the majority those who remained in the soviet union were not exposed the first time, because, well , they also did not tell from them that they were who they were, but who fled to the west? no one was, the issued prosecutor's office

initiated a law that involves the involvement of even dead criminals. this will somehow help punish the guilty, i don’t know, at least let’s say formal punishment, probably justice. uh, i believe that i believe that in any case, and the court - this is a very important point. uh, because if a person the court is not recognized as a criminal stating that it is always there for speculation. i believe that this is correct. this is the first moment of the second moment when we are talking about. one myth is connected with these heroes. the fact is that in ukraine independently, collections were published with glorification of the so-called bukovinian chicken coop, which is shown as a heroic unit that fought for ukrainian independence. and what is bukovinian kuren , this is 115,118 ukrainian security police battalions, and the fact is that the 118th

ukrainian battalion consisted of one a company, an elite ukrainian, 118th security battalion, by the way, a katyuk served as a squad leader - these are the nationalists of western ukraine; other companies were recruited from residents of kiev, kiev region, as well as from ukrainian prisoners of war. and there is such a thing, you know, they like to speculate on manipulation on what they say. here, if you score now on the internet. do you think the soviet officer burned khatyn the soviet soviet officer, vasilira, yes, 20 years old, 27 years old, but they forget that this person is? was a convinced ukrainian nationalist that he voluntarily switched to side of the enemy that he graduated from propagandist courses? already after he went over to the side of the enemy, that this man, so to speak, was the flesh of the flesh of that tradition , despite the fact that he was not, as they say, i will

only say one thing, that when we talk about khatyn, uh, we know it is certain that the main destruction actions were carried out by the 118th ukrainian security battalion, as well as a motorized company. uh, sonder of the derwangler ss battalion. plus , the dealer lebanon lera already had a ukrainian company and a russian company, then another forty-third belarusian one. khatyn was destroyed 149 of them were destroyed, 75 children under 16 years old, that is, such a huge number of punishers for such a small village. well, this is the most interesting thing that happened when people were already driven out. they set up there. translator, i don't remember the translator,

then the punch. the commander of the smolfsky battalion, all the rest. they were standing. and when someone jumped out, that is, the child jumped out. there it is according to the testimony of the same punishers who tried them already at the minsk trial. se nu, it is clear that the child will already die. he is engulfed in fire. all the rest. here they are elderly targets were shooting there for a bet on who would hit, yes, and the cat of which was recognized as not proving the charges according to the testimony of his colleagues. he lay in the rock at a distance of 120-150 m. here was the entrance to the barn behind a machine gun and finished off people. and therefore, well, when we talk about these things, we must remember this, therefore, when we say who destroyed khatyn, we must speak in the ironic right of truthful

and correct khatyn, the nazis, german and ukrainian nazis, were destroyed, not the heroes of the rescue of ukraine, but the nazis are people who were belonged to a faction organizations of ukrainian nationalists. only not the banderaites, but the melnikovites, because there was one chair they didn’t share. so , as part of this bukain horse, just the backbone of it was made up of staunch ukrainian nationalists of western ukraine, which obeyed e, considered their leader andrey melnikov, who argued for. e, what is called the palm with stepan bandera and another very important point when we talk about which one. and the fact is that since 1995 this scoundrel. and he became an honorary citizen of the city of chernivtsi and this is not all for his money in bronze was cast and stands, and no one

will paint it, will not turn it off with a bulldozer , they erected a monument in bronze to the heroes of bukarin smoking for those who are active monuments to the soviet soldier. yes, i explain the ninety-fifth year for the money of the executioner of khatyn. independent ukraine in the ninety-fifth year, that is, the roots you are looking for, of course, a monument was erected to the killers of belarusians. and the scum that made up the backbone of two punitive battalions. moreover, yes, one more moment here for those who start shouting propaganda about the fifth tenth, i strongly recommend teaching. if you don’t know english, type

in russian the last name per-anders rudling is a swedish-american historian who wrote two fundamental works, one dedicated to the killers of khatyn. it was the atrocity in khatyn of the 118th ukrainian battalion, and the second work of all their other atrocities on the territory of belarus, that they came out in english, then they were translated into russian. there is another generalizing, where he brought these two works into one. uh, they're available online. there the whole texture is a cross-analysis of sources, this was emphasized by a man who is a swede by nationality; now he lives in the united states, and the glorification of radical ukrainian nationalists in the era of looking for puppies is also analyzed in detail. it is detailed in detail and his own peru on e, belongs to the best most objective work on the atrocities of the hero of the ukrainian rebel army and his leader of the novel

, they are trying to falsify for a long time and in europe and not only in europe, but in this case this is a very specific thing where a person leads statistics show who killed how killed, who breathed what? what kind of ideology did these killers have and precisely, because he shows it honestly, and a lot of people don’t like it, because he wanted to, well, agree with igor aleksandrovich in regards. probably the culprits are nazism and specifically the country that unleashed the second world war and was the culprit of the great patriotic war, the tragedy of the genocide of the belarusian people. uh, the genocide today is not disputed and the destruction of the slavic belarusian. by population the way the holocaust is today confirmed and is confirmed by international, probably, documents and those documents. here, which are, uh, in a number of collections.

e books, literature, historical articles, thousands of articles and dozens of monographs, but you see, here we are discussing today, we give an example, e, the tragedy of the belarusian people of the soviet people, and, e, a specific example, the village of koryukovka, chernihiv region. uh, the first of the second of march of the forty-third year, the punitive detachment of the germans and the ukrainian auxiliary police destroyed 7,000 civilians, and in this village this village and there are such examples policies in latvia when latvian villages were burned. uh, that's a concrete example, then. yes, it's about everything and removing the monuments is very simple, to be honest to the end. examples there is a fact that the mass destruction of villages, the mass destruction of the population in

such a volume, which it was in belarus , was neither in ukraine nor in the baltic states. and i would not advise. here, especially in russia , they also like to talk about the genocide of the soviet people, which, from my point of view, is a fundamentally wrong message, therefore requiring adjustments, whom we mean by e, the soviet people of all citizens of the ussr - this is wrong, because the occupation, for example, of lithuania, latvia, estonia, and the regime of occupation of lithuania, latvia, estonia, had a completely different character than the occupation of belarus or ukraine, or even more so russia , because people of the lowest grade among the slavs were considered great russians, there is absolutely nothing about cruelty, there was nothing said about ukrainians. rosenberg, playing on ukrainian nationalism, believed that another thing could be effectively used, that ukrainian nationalists were unlucky, let's say so with looser, because koch considered the ukrainians,

typical slavic pigs, in which you need to control with a whip and shag. this is his direct quote, therefore, but at the same time, when we talk about these cartilages , various modes of operation and various genocidal plans in relation to the fact that, firstly, mass destruction in belarus why else was this label already shown? why didn't the germans plan to leave. there are only one million three hundred thousand people here, because they believed that urbanization was necessary. to destroy the entire structure in spite of the new ones. myths. the germans believed that it was precisely as a result of urbanization and the implementation of belarus that the population of belarus had sharply increased. a lot of extra eaters, then, as by, just don’t need a hunger plan from here, uh, developed by the german ministry of agriculture, so they didn’t think they needed 1.300.000 in belarus . this is the north, like russia, ukraine, the north caucasus, and the crimea there is a different mode of operation there, uh, and

here we were a training ground for a land surveyor. and where is it ? and most importantly, why is the difference? the scale of the partisan movement and the difference in the number of collaborators in the number of traitors, because if you take the statistics and look. how many of these battalions each had on the territory of each occupied republic, you will see a rather interesting situation, because let's assume such a number. how many latvians went to the germans. eh, among the belarusians there were not over 100,000 in relation. before the soviet people of the belarusian people, we have a law on the genocide of the belarusian people, a criminal case , an investigation of the belarusian people, but uh, here this platform we understand each other with our russian colleagues e should not be perceived as e, like we are here, like diving. this is one thing within the framework. e

work on e, the study of e genocide. i'm just saying what stories, where i'll explain one more thing. uh, the fact is that the germans, the nazis , had a differentiated policy towards various ethnic societies located on the territory of the soviet union. they knew ethnic nationalisms. all pribal something in gruzino in armenian muslims, and they are these schemes. they played a very beautiful jewelry cossack card, because the cossack movement is a special thing, by the way, it is also very interesting, therefore. so, when we talk about these things, the german plans were differentiated. that's what i'm talking about, so when we just talk about the genocide of the soviet people, then at least. we must decide that we understand that the prosecutor's office was indeed a step that was taken on time, and i thank you very much for

the interesting conversation and i really hope that our memory will allow us not to repeat those terrible mistakes. thank you yuri khadzhimuratovich, good evening.

hello, in october of the twentieth year, the president awarded you the rank of lieutenant general and sent the most difficult belarusian region that day, the appointment was indicative. do you remember you are in grodno a wader in brest badgers, minsk and the reasons on the surface in those days, so i remember perfectly about the grodno region , why didn’t they say that the polish troops near the border were just waiting for a signal to enter the region, that in some offices the officials already prepared polish flags. and that part of the state media is literally directly working to warm up the protest. here's what we saw in person. when you arrived there, what is fake here. what is true? well, i'll start with such a question of the most important thing that i saw. personally, when i arrived in grodno, i was just as wary. how do you now, uh, say, uh, but the first thing that caught my eye in the light of day. this is the abundance of our flags on every building in the center, and i

involuntarily thought to myself more than in minsk uh-huh was and i began to look. what is this building. yes, indeed, these were state institutions, but they were usually in the center, but also residential buildings, and by that time the koran was already 2 months old. uh, yes, and uh, the hardest part, of course, fell on him. it's uh, crazy. the pace was a trip through the work collectives to the labor collectives of the largest enterprises, which were just the same and pumped. eh, our oppositionists and their western masters, because now even after the passage of time. i will say. so they started. indeed for successful significant numerous enterprises in the first place are grodno azot and further down the list, where many people work, oblgaz oblenergo and everything that affects, by the way, the provision of life for the electric activity of the population. here is oblenergo -

this is a thermal power plant. this is the whole energy industry. this is water sewage, as they say, electricity in all its manifestations. it was these collectives that they took on when, uh, you study, uh, the protest mood in the working collectives is strange. not in any small working groups. let there important or not important and salaries that are not very good, uh, for some reason, none of these signatories, much less actively protesting people are busy, e business and exactly where the big salary is good profit successful business and the country's economy depends on them from the same year ago why - that's all. looked there, therefore , we first said that this is a revolution of the well-fed. yes , but not the poor. well, it’s all this, it’s true , the well-known intrigues of the enemy, therefore, well, our gullible ones fell for it, listened, hanging their ears and went for years to the mill, as they used to say, imperialism downloaded to the water

state-owned enterprises is the state is a blow to the economy. e states. this is, uh, a blow to such an informational agenda. look at state enterprises against this state, so we often see all this, with what threads, e shito, for that period, we only studied it from the e first part of the question, that polish troops are standing at the border. eh, we always know now. uh, help to all color revolutions. from outside they are preparing, they did not stand in shock groups so that immediately. fall but who canceled and uh who can to vouch that there will be no throw of organized groups, from the inside, which we do not see them in such a classic field formation deployed in combat positions , and yet they are not. after all, now

wars are not waged by mechanized divisions , corps deployed from the left to the right flank with shielding in depth and the classic there, uh, shock component of breaking through a weak sector of the enemy’s defense. now everything is completely different and therefore the demonstration of that power with the deployment of part of our e, forces. e. against the adjacent side. e showed that they even have nothing to pull about the fact that some officials, uh, have polish flags in their office. waiting is a figure of speech, but in the minds of some, such flags have already been. i’m reading the history of the patriotic war, as the state security committee, and then the nkvd, uh, revealed among the high civil servants among the uh intelligentsia among such

incomprehensible, but highly located people sports figures of old age, brothers, by the way, u such conversations that they are waiting germans, that they are learning german, that with them they will while in the new order the bolsheviks. they are tired of such and such functionaries. uh, then in khrushchev's propaganda - it represented how cruel unjustified repressions, stalin , here it was always and the participation of our small civil servants, we got rid of them now , such thoughts and these were unsatisfied ambitions. this is, uh, some kind of career desire someone offended someone, in fact, they have never been for us, uh, or just a disadvantage. uh, brains of education comparison uh about this or that kind, uh, let's say public state a device under which the majority of the people live better than under another, for example, well, it’s good to protect the western pearl of belarus a little deeper