we are in mutual dialogue with all partners in international e -cooperation, but nonetheless. we are in our time. if such an hour x comes and we have to defend our country. we will be on the defensive. we are not weak, that is, our peace-loving. ah, such a position. it is not a position of weakness, it should not be taken as a republic that is not ready to stand up for itself. that is why we keep it completely dry. it is for this that we e have a sufficiently combat-ready armed forces and good special services. the next moment we understand that being an average european state with an open economy. we must build commercial economic relations in all parts of the world, and any country that is ready to trade with us without detriment to our economic sense will be in our trade economic partners. we will never close economically, and any of our partners who is interested in the development of belarus should support this policy and the third one. uh, we, uh, currently

support the transformation of the international political economic system. e in such a way that the interests of both global states and small and medium-sized countries are taken into account. and it is very important to understand why the role of belarus is important, we are a medium-sized european state. it is not necessary to say that we are a small state out of forty-six countries in europe, we are the fourteenth, but now we understand all the pain in states that , in turn, once trusted to withdraw nuclear weapons, which were damaged many times, our sovereignty was endangered, and we can enter into the international dialogue to take into account the interests of the third in our way simple absolutely we signed the referendum. this is our path, we are all in august of the twentieth year. they wanted change. these are evolutionary changes. we have clearly laid out in the constitution where we are going in a democratic country. today, really lawlessness democratic country. here i will tell you about it. nowhere,

let's imagine the belarusian people's assembly, which we are today well, not today, in principle, we talk a lot, we also talk about what our people will make the most important strategic decisions. we have our own way of development. sometimes they are similar to others you have to follow it unconditionally. we look around , we'll better learn, but it's important that we know our way and that's it. well, you have to go your own way. you know it's very important. indeed, our path is determined in the new constitution. we took a neutral status from there. it is very important. why did this allow you to clearly define now, where are our friends, where are our enemies? should we choose a vector today? having determined that we were truly neutral, we gave impetus by determining that we no longer have a neutral status. we have given impetus to the development of such important and conceptual documents. like the same concept of national security, where it is actually rewritten due to the change in the constitution , in fact, by 80%. it certainly improved and determined for us really new steps that we will have to take in the future. now the development of

a parallel and military doctrine is already beginning, which in including will show our role and place precisely in this military-political component within our region. and, of course, in my opinion. it is very important that in our constitution the new was defined precisely the foundations of our ideology. the ideology was based on the great patriotic war. yes , we say we are not the largest state. yes, we are there 14 and so on. well, what fell on our people the great patriotic war for many millennia for many peoples. there were no tests of the kind. we really took place there as a nation. they really survived as a nation. we have shown that we have the right to exist. listen, it’s really us, when we are told about the sanction, when the next un secretary general there is some 100,000 guteria, who they were there, says something about rights. he must understand that the belarusians paid with their blood for your right to be on this podium , they paid with their blood, unlike this comrade, who allows himself

to share very important words with someone. the constitution is indeed, formalized, the ideology of our state and society is strong , fair, developing the state is our value and the constitution is the cornerstone, the base stone on which the state-civil contract is built. thank you very much for participating in this program, thank you to our viewers.

director of the memorial complex khatyn zelsky arthur garevich, and we will probably talk with you on those different topics that interest both us and the audience. oh hello

on air program say don't be silent studio victoria popova and tatiana shcherbina and today our guest is arthur zelsky. good afternoon. good afternoon. glad to see you again in our studio. we saw each other almost 2 years ago. here and then much was said about the horrors of war. and uh, having reviewed this record before our today's meeting, i was convinced that then we did not even suspect that she could come so close to our borders that you think about this situation of your own. the fact that the war became literally hundreds of kilometers from us is, firstly, no one imagined once again proves that history makes somersaults that can not be dreamed of even in

a terrible dream on the other hand. there is nothing in history, nothing is accidental and everything is natural. what is happening is the consequences of the collapse of the soviet union and a. its collapse, too, in fact , was the same regularity as the collapse of the russian empire of all other empires in the world. but what did it result in? it turned into a disaster. this is my opinion , a terrible catastrophe is happening. blood ditch. divides the peoples on the living, the fate of the people of the family is torn people there is something that could not even be imagined, you know, was once everyone knows it. naturally, but who listens to the opinion of andrei andreevich gromyko, the minister of foreign affairs, he was the chairman of the president of the supreme soviet of the ussr that is, in fact, de jure head

of the soviet union for some period. he spoke better. 10 years of negotiations than one day of war? and he was a belarusian and how right he was and how much again i just know, that's when it was announced that so many contributions were made before on the internet will be next year after the year of historical memory of me. it was just very interesting, really interested, because historical memory gave us a lot, gave us a lot, not only for us. eh, personally, to me or to the khatyn team there. no, he gave all of us to all of our people gave a lot of state consciousness of who we are and so i was wondering. here's what the sequel will be. and that's when i found out that it was a year of, uh, peace and creation, trust me. i was genuinely happy. it was like this. here is how such a gift

such a small one. this is exactly what you asked for. yes, yes, it is precisely for peace and creation that war will not destroy. because this is typical of us, we have so much swallowed a full spoonful of all wars of all kinds of catastrophes that, probably, we are like no one with all our hearts and everything is there, anywhere. with these fibers of the soul, the skin is rude, but nevertheless we know what war is and and what it costs, because not only every 100 years with regularity, here every almost half a century everything is what families made created the whole country this uh, our national kindness. everything left with the flames of fires with smoke from death, and people who could give birth to offspring, if not all these warriors, i don’t know how many millions of tens, probably millions of belarusians, would live on our earth, i

mean, only the twentieth century. i don’t take it, there were 19 periods when millions and millions of people also died. the same about let's miss the patriotic war of the twelfth year or the war of the northern war the great northern war, where every third died, not only died. this hunger, cold, pestilence, everything that accompanies the war, because these are also losses, but again , these are such average numbers, because, for example, uh, probably, in the northern war , the shklov county, uh, lost up to 90% of the inhabitants. imagine, the entire population of this region has almost disappeared. that's why things like war, we, to put it mildly, do not like us, this is not typical, because what mom told me is family education, as i think. now i realize all this, all these horrors of all this war. they are in me and i personally do not need it. i think this

the majority of belarusians also adhere to the same view, because there is not much here. here is this grief, but an informational occasion for our meeting. this is certainly the eightieth anniversary of the khatyn tragedy on march 22, 1943, this tragedy occurred. and it was precisely on the twenty-second that it was planned to complete the reconstruction of the memorial complex , let us remind the audience how the president a year ago, being on subbotniks in khatyn, responded to the future of construction. start building the museum immediately. simplify it to the point of impossibility. the main exposition that will be there is for people to come, before joining the axis here, so that their hearts already vomit. well, that's how the task was clearly set. you are generally satisfied with the progress of the reconstruction. that's how much we managed to do from what was planned, well, firstly, the reconstruction has already been completed. at least in that part in the central part of the memorial is the cemetery

of the villages. uh, the trees of life and definitely. it's this central part that's the unconquered. this is the roof of the shed, because there are these slabs, which, for example, are symbolic the roof, the shed was covered, and they were removed every slab and polished and soiled and put in order and put in place. that is, to bring all this is what is what it is for 50 years. this concrete. it just turned it into paint sand. therefore , it was very important and it was done. as for the museum, the museum. it was also your dream, but the museum, you understand, it was planned back in 1969. what are the reasons that led to the fact that it was not implemented? how is the building? well, well, maybe it this is also the regularity that we saw during the reconstruction now. and

the building, in general, fits into the ensemble. as it seems to you, yes, the building completely fit into the ensemble both in scale and in proportions, and even inside. and what did they fill it with? tell us a little, when the concept of the museum was written back in the twenty-first year, even well, it wasn’t even said about the fact that all this could be put into practice, when he wrote the concept of the museum, he weighed the analysis of those museum expositions that exist now, at least in belarus well, in the russian federation , that is, you understand, uh, it seems very from my point of view, maybe i ’m wrong three times and museum workers will attack me with fists now, uh, but it seems to me that uh exhibits not everything at all. there should not be a lot of subjects in a photograph; people should not scatter attention here. but some one accent things they should

exist. in general, you are an active supporter of such expositions that touch the soul, and for many years you have personally conducted excursions in the memorial complex. eh, from your experience that is really capable of taking for the soul and vomit, were there any tourists who left the memorial complex? well, what is called with a cold nose? well, firstly, you can’t say about everyone here, uh , people, everyone is different, absolutely everyone is different, and most importantly, as it seems to me, again, from my point of view. this is the emotional mood of the one who conducts the tour. that is, if he personally is touched by this topic. eh, it doesn’t matter, even some topic, or in this case khatyn or some other topic. he will always be very emotional. and this will be transmitted to the people who surround him, even if he has been conducting this excursion a thousand times this excursion, even if he

has been conducting this excursion a thousand times, and then emotions will certainly be transmitted to people if he hears, well, no one will give you any recipe to wake up and people are definitely different. and who is leaving. well, you understand very well. this is very rare. at least, if someone goes with a guide, emotions are always, they start to go off scale, because if you go by yourself, you always khatyn, i mean, already. in in this case, the memorial will remain a kind of mystery. it will not reveal itself entirely, that is, some things, some elements of the memorial. they will stay away. i want to support you with this girl, that this emotional impact can be strong, because we remember that furtseva also did not like the history of the invictus memorial. yes, then she was present at

the acceptance and it seemed that this was not a competent soviet art, but nevertheless. it has become a symbol. indeed, both the country and the grief of the whole people in 1794 in khatyn the church was lit. and sweden of the virgin mary turns out after 2. years in 2023, it was recreated, do you consider this temple on the territory of a burned village a miracle? you know, i 'm still a historian in general, i believe in cause-and-effect relationships and regularities of events, there is nothing accidental in history , a chain of accidents gives rise to a regularity sooner or later. it had to happen, and this is both the reconstruction of the memorial and the creation of the museum, because uh it was. well, it came from within. you see, it required life itself.

maybe these are some neva's somewhat loud words, maybe three times, not right. i don't know, but this is an inner need. it played its role and it so happened that the head of state drew attention to this, that it was necessary to recreate the temple on the territory of the memorial. just as it was then at the end of the 17th century, ours recently took part in this illumination of the temple and we hope that it will become a place of worship . yes, which is very important for visits, as again one of the parts is one of the elements of the memorial, where it will be possible to come and think in a calm atmosphere in silence, if you want to light a candle, that is, please, people, come, uh, especially since the history of this place is very ancient. it goes back to the middle of the 16th century. and then, probably, there were some temples.

they just became for us, probably forever unknown in the past of our meeting. you said that approximately 50% of the truth about the genocide of the belarusian people during the great patriotic war was revealed. uh, what do you think, here is the process initiated by the prosecutor general's office, uh, to restore all the facts genocide against the belarusians, uh, the belarusian people as a whole, uh, helps to fill in those very blank spots and whether historians will find out any facts. ah, museum workers. uh, thanks to that's precisely this prosecutor's investigation, of course, because the agent of the prosecutor's office, firstly, actively cooperates and transfers them to temporary wounds with all the museums. uh, those artifacts that have been dug out of the ground from the places where people were once killed, these are terrible finds. it must be seen again. it's all this one that

remains essentially human. in when he was killed it was these small things that people carried with them. maybe without even knowing what will happen to them. but what about white spots? do you understand? this story is far from over, despite the fact that today, for example, the number 10.961 has been established, the village destroyed and or suffered during the war years, this figure is still far from its completion, because the work continues is a serious work on the part of the prosecutor's office and from the interdepartmental commission that deals with e, historians are engaged on a very serious level, scrupulously examining each settlement, so that god

forbid. e accidents that may be, so the work is still far from over. you, uh, and khatyn, something new has appeared , some data, the prosecutor's office is more involved in others. well, there are just the same new ones. yes , the village, about which they are again those that did not sound in the sixties in the seventies. and if they may have sounded somewhere, then somewhere so, well, conditionally on the periphery. you understand that the most important thing is where and in what direction the search develops. and what about the hut? eh, then there almost everything is known about the tragedy of the village from beginning to end. the only thing for me. uh, i still have to find out for myself personally. who gave the order was the destruction no, yes, yes, yes, there are some historians

suggest one man major eric kerner. uh, commanders, 118, the mine is different. row about artur vilka, the head of the security police of the sd of the logoisk district gabstorm furress, there is some possibility that this can be found out, that is, where there is such a possibility and sooner or later all this should be found out there should be reports. well, here you also have to be very careful with reports, where they don’t lie as much as in war. well, that's why these reports they always tried to present their actions in the best possible way, and therefore that report is known to erich kerner. he is. no, this is some kind of mixture of truth and fiction. and you still they said that his whereabouts were never known. yes, he managed to escape, he disappeared, and apparently somewhere, maybe

until the beginning of the seventies he lived quietly in germany before. by the fact that one more question you asked much later, you said that they tolerate khatyn, i’m curious about indifference, were there living facts confirming this thesis, that is, maybe some kind of rejection, there was a story not indifferent. rather, i would not say that they were indifferent. rather, they considered. you all this squinting aga well with a certain distrust with distrust with skepticism regards this as an element. e soviet propaganda that, supposedly, this was not all, especially in the part where it concerned not only the destruction of khatyn. how many even punitive operations of their scale, which belarus has embraced, especially, where,

let's say, punishers participated, if such can be called a collaborator. although these were punishers from the former soviet republics , let's call it so softly. and what do they continue today to the anniversary give your dirty business, that is, we in the telegram channels read from them these throws all the time and the films have already been promptly spanked again there, who , according to their version, the arson of khatyn questions themselves, people came up with this and i came across this a long time ago, that options people were hiding and accidentally died. and almost the partisans set them on fire there and such nonsense. excuse me to eat. eh, but again. it is known that the partisans left khatyn, that is, very quickly at the very beginning of how the punisher only approached

village. the guerrillas began to successfully leave without taking any battle. that is, there was no battle, and what do they say about the trophy, eh? well, the trophy and the punishers are completely insignificant, and there were residents of the mother who put their sons on a horse, that is, they understood that it would be grandiose now, as if they would quit saving everything themselves, rather, it’s very difficult to figure it out. it just seemed to them that it was necessary to save their son so that two germany might not be hijacked by an adult such a tragedy. they couldn't even realize yet they couldn't even guess. you see, viktor andreyevich zhilobkovich lobkovich told one of the last witnesses. more precisely, the very last survivor. well, he died in 2020. eh, told like uh what? it was the day. he

very distinctly, then remembered that it was a bright sunny day, with a bright, shone sun was melting, this snow. and along these streets they ran, streams and children who were driven out of their homes. for the most part, they were barefoot, that is, some kind of shoes, and they got their feet into these puddles of cold, such melt waters full and they laughed merrily, that is, you understand, psychologically and people were not ready for this, so maybe if the ugu partisans had taken the fight in khatyn, perhaps more people would have been saved for good reason, then voronyansky handed over this already known order of what to ban partisans during the day in movie theaters in the villages. at least, in that unit in the brigade he commanded. and we will break for a while,

i remind you. we have a telegram channel. say don't be silent. subscribe to ask questions. suggest guests we are in touch. what a perch in a complete bifurcation of crops is all

near this trend that the documentary cycle is the memory of my land, well, in fact, we may have such folk full. remember, what are showing the history of one carriage, and the history of one carriage has a history of everything in the people, belarus 204. what do you think, can a guy grow flowers, my flowers are huge for everyone, hello, today? i want to tell you about my florarium. we open so the life goal to inspire, everyone despised everyone laughed rudely. how so boy deals with flowers. and i was also the captain of the team, like a white crow. is it possible to discover your scent in the village? let's put a bathhouse, and

that's it, but we didn't say that there's nothing after the bow. let 24 on the air again, say the program, do not be silent. and today our guest is the director of the khatyn memorial complex artur zelsky for his 80-year history, of course, the memorial complex has many pictures. we found, for example, on a belt in the archive like this. this photograph is a witness of the khatyn tragedy, iosif iosifovich kaminsky tells the children how we see about the terrible

march day of the forty-third year, and the photograph may suggest that may 9, 1968 . but why did i want to discuss this particular photo with you, our generation still remembers these meetings, yes, with witnesses of the tragedy, and these stories are all. it really was like that. e on the live for us for today's children. well, who will tell? first, yes, and somehow it must happen and carefully whether they do the same. stories, because for us khatyn and even the museum of the first congress of the rsdlp - these were must-haves for school time. now. it seems to me that this is not at all the case, well, i'll tell you a little secret. i was not, thank god, at school in the first museum of the first congress of the rsdlp uh-huh they didn’t take us there and something, or i ignored this process and wrote a book about minsk, this is a book about omsk, they are at the

drp museum. does the history of minsk have anything to do with this house? no, that's the legend of minsk does not correlate. for some reason, with those who gathered in 1898. at least until i found something like that, one of my favorite stories. about minsk, this is a funny fairy tale of a witty merchant who was somehow looking for a wife. and i decided to find out, so to speak, which of them will be. the best as a hostess. he came to the city, having bought in the rural krug different uh, what is called sodovina gorodeny and began to change it, to change it for dirt and dust. well , of course, everyone around was delighted and the girls suffered, who was a bag, who was a knot, who was a whole bag and, accordingly, gave us absolutely this one for free. here he

decided to make an exchange and one of the girls brought he gave him a very little zhenya of this dust, and he asked why you are beautiful, you didn’t bring more, and i would have given you more then, but she, so to speak, started up with paint and said that i didn’t have more. but it was immediately clear to me that she was a very good housewife, and the merchant began to send his matchmakers to her without hesitation. and what about the departed ones? these generations, but again , a natural process is taking place, but we have already touched a little on the topic of these past bloody events. or even the same relatively recent only 100 years passed the first world war or the war? here is this polish-soviet one, which here also rolled from west to east and then from east to west in

1921, 812. yes, that is, how much do we think about it, how much does it touch us? no, it's already gone. this is inevitable and this process is not inevitable. and now comes a generation for whom that war is no longer more correct to tell history, but we must go as far as possible. hold on as long as possible so that hmm is not overgrown with grass, what is called not that oblivion, we are not talking about oblivion, we are talking about rather about that. to indifference, if you like, not even without memory , namely, this should continue to cause emotional outbursts in the soul. sympathy should be sympathy, empathy and, most importantly, empathy, so that the one who came to khatyn, in this case, to khatyn, because we have many such memorials - these are alla and borki and shuevka and others and dali so that they can somehow relate yourself to

those dead people with those dead children, if we are talking about children first of all, you understand, if we achieve this, honor and praise to us, but because those witnesses, they left, they will never return. this is why i always say that family upbringing and family traditions are very important. uh, school program - that's great. this is wonderful. this is important. it is necessary and no one. strictly speaking , it is useless to deny it. but the school should also aim to ensure that this happens in families and not necessarily there. to remember there, uh, about grandfather, in this case, a front-line soldier or partisan. let's just have a task for the children, to have a memory lesson , so that they draw a picture there, i don’t know , if there is a junior school in the museum, you see it, now it’s school, are

the schoolchildren going to you buses today or not? or would like more schoolchildren to go. why do schoolchildren go, but if there is an elementary school, do they realize everything when? because when an elementary school is brought to us, it is conditionally the third and fourth grades there. yes, they are not yet able to perceive this story through themselves. they are not ready for it. until recently , they read fairy tales, yes, or watched cartoons and now, that is, they still do not understand that it was a reality for them, this is for them , they are still far from perception. this is all the more sparing for children's psychology tour of the memorial. it is aimed rather at the perception of the architectural landscape. eh, than. well, this is the perception of this ensemble. rather than some facts, from which just trembling is also such a serious question. maybe, uh, spared. well, when it all became game. it's just that these trips need to be repeated.

uh, well, as adults, as if reading books, and from which the blood lived from the rear and from the first grade understood that there is something what does it mean to sit on our foundations of pedagogy, which we will never leave, and secondly, uh, well, will the children of even today’s generation understand everything, even if we show them all this , probably, many of us don’t get marshmallows thanks to this, you make a practice approach in that they bring them first at the same age, then at a little older , a then insert. the main thing is that, relatively speaking, they bring students from, say, a secondary school , there are sixth or seventh grades there, when they are ready for all this, then the high school will come so that this happens again and, for example, there are very few student youth. here is the problem, while the student youth

very actively participated in the reconstruction in these works, of course, what can you say about the contribution of students to the construction site. has he had meaningful encounters with young people? i told them to understand that i don't labor this place. that this is not just another construction site or an opportunity and opportunity to earn money, that they are making history, they are making history. here they will go through there for a couple of years there , or for some time, he will come with his young lady and say. but look here, here, this particular one, for example, this grave in the cemetery of villages. here i worked and put my hand in everything. you see, we always, we always somehow lose sight of the circumstances that on weekdays these very ones that we have are happening. we're making history. we are its creators, in fact today. and how

do we create it so it will be in the future. that is, we are already recording these pages and the same museum today. this is also another and very bright page in this history of khatyn, which today is already inscribed in the great history. work was interesting, or what? did you feel it worked? how to say it? hands down. let's say. so of course the name was run by professional builders. who did it, but they worked honest in good faith. that's something you can't take away from them. they worked, and it was evident, and not only this one, there were subbotniks. and when it was necessary to help there, uh, really a memorial. well, it's just that in some places where work has already been done , these things should be put in order, the upper layer should be cultivated. that is, here the guys worked, what do you understand boys and

girls, everyone is working. well, let's talk a little about you then, let's talk about when you first came to khatyn. oh my god. it was a very, very long time ago, i can't even tell. the fact that i was not a schoolboy, that's for sure you already student age. yes yes it was and it was just a trip. it's just our company went to us. just went. because we were on our own. i had the feeling that i was in a silence that should not be broken. something must be kept silent here, that there is no need for this rhetoric, and if there was any story of the guide then, then personally, i probably would have seemed superfluous. well, it seemed to me then, you know, they were like that. well, such a sense of measurement. i will try to understand why this is happening. nineties, and i remember when i first came to khatyn. i didn't need

any other words either. we knew the history of this place. uh, we knew what our uh relatives were going through. yes, in the harsh times of the military, but, perhaps in the current generation, this conversation of the guide is necessary in order to somehow explain and convey it is for this that this museum was actually created on the exposition, so that a visitor who arrives in khatyn . he could not just walk along the memorial, but he could first dive into this dramatic story of ours full of tragedy and horror and tears. let this pass through yourself, and then go to the memorial and complete the memorial and museums. they don't oppose each other. this is a global delusion, when such conversations are already heard now, that the museum is superfluous to them spoiled the memorial. well, with such opinions have to face. if you can call it that, that in fact it is not, they mutually

complement each other. this complement each other, because these generations have gone or these generations are leaving. even now children who were children of war. they, too, are leaving already rapidly leaving, moreover, this is really, then the architect and the first to think about this museum. i think that, as always, there were not enough funds or some other ba. the reason is, but you have been director since the eleventh year. we remembered your first trip and managed to do a lot while being there as a leader in this memorial complex, how he personally changed you. there are character traits that you have developed due to the fact that you daily face these together. well, how and if conducting excursions, then it is always necessary to tune in to khatyn, to this wave, which it radiates with this sadness and

so on. excursions are very emotional and people listen then this is such a change, please, such a setting has appeared, but at least for me. yes, it didn’t come to me right away, maybe it came, because, uh, you understand, any excursion, like the exposition of a new museum, it will not immediately start working. it's like any mechanism must first get used to these the gears spun and then began to spin on their own. here it will pass. there , relatively speaking, the tenth twentieth tour of the exposition and that's it, and we will go. eh, our eh girls. eh, it will work itself out. like clockwork it immediately nothing happens smoothly, that is, the place must take, of course. hmm , definitely a place to take it should not reject the one who came to us already got a job. if they were around here

, well, i'll work here. i'm leaving, well, what can i say? we do not force anyone it means, well, somewhere, something, uh, did not agree conditionally speaking, because there are those who have been working with us for many years and the memorial accepted them, or rather, it is correct to say that khatyn accepted them is a question. uh, indifference is what i wanted to hear from you our first part. so, i think that it is only possible to work in cooperation here. yes, with this place with the spirit, the place with the spirit of this place and with the awareness of this whole catastrophe , or precisely the catastrophe of the belarusian people in the second in the middle of the 20th century. and here you are for yourself actually found the answer to the question. why do people fight and is it possible to live without killing each other? live do not kill each other, of ​​course you can?

who said that you can’t live without warriors, you can live without war, recent practices , here the last one after the second world war showed that if you restrain your emotions, if you negotiate for 10 or 20 years, you can achieve an effect? his own, but unfortunately, the world is sometimes ruled by evil and stupidity and greed, these are all the vices inherent in man. they take on character. uh irresistible some things and then there is a layer of war and destruction, and again. this is hate. the desire to oppose oneself to others is what later became known as fascism. after all, fascism appeared not only in the xx century, as a political phenomenon? yes, but how to call the extermination of many peoples simply extermination on the spoke of the wheel? when they killed everyone from

young to old at different periods of different times, not only on our land, i mean, in general, this same thing cannot be stopped. do you already know? the answer when they wrote books on this topic, when i have been working for so many years, i am not again. i'm not a philosopher, i'm a historian. uh, and if you think in historical terms, then the war. unfortunately, it is human nature. she they are also inevitable. they were and will be, and we will not get away from them is another question. how to prevent this, so that these shocks do not come to our earth, so here the roman recipe only as a historian can allow myself to be saved. it's time for him. if you want peace, prepare for war, in my opinion, and your book

is on the screen of khatyn, the tragedy of the belarusian of the people has become a bestseller, and we know it has not been sold aimlessly so far in bookstores, personally checked and sorted out , they told me, but karl marx in the center of the tourist city of minsk, at least it is difficult to buy. and we know that you are going to write the second sequel. what will it be about uh book. well, if it works out, all uh, god forbid, if it works out, because all this is very difficult. it will also be a joke and about the tragedies of individuals, namely individual people, as well as the inhabitants of khatyn, that they survived their experiences. that there is this addition, rather an additional edition. uh, some new facts that were not known before, and these facts. uh, uh just separate them. well, you can not

read them and remain indifferent. that is , all this is very difficult information. moreover, in order to prepare the exposition, museums have reviewed a huge number of photographs of documents from the same archive of the cinema background of photo documents. and individual frames, well, and the photos are simply amazing on the one hand. this is the desire of people to live on the other side. this inhumanity punishers and fascists. i don’t even know what to call these people and people or they were. let me take a short break. after a short pause, we will return to this studio, while subscribe to our telegram channel. e say, do not be silent, and look for all our releases on the youtube channel belarus 1. on the air say again, do not be silent. our guest is the director

of the khatyn memorial complex. arthur zelsky. artur galevich. you are not surprised by the fact that and in belarus, in the country e, which suffered greatly during the great patriotic war, but from fascism, who survived the genocide, everything equally there are people who are ready to help the west call for sanctions against their country. that is, in fact, to suffocation. actually the people. why should this surprise me? this is not surprising in all this, because it is enough to recall the events of the great patriotic war. uh, i'm not talking about those people who were simply forced to survive in the occupied territories. these are slightly different things, you must admit, when the family has nothing to eat. uh, when you need to somehow just elementary find food. you have to go somewhere to work, but there were those

who did not do this at all, who took over. this one is bloody. this terrible thing, the murder of innocent people , again, and we are not talking about what nationality we are talking about here, if we are talking about all of the belarusian people, then this is regardless of nationality, regardless of religion. that is, it is russian and belarusians and jews, ukrainians and tatars and gypsies. that is, all that is, and there were those among them, again, in a variety of nationalities who were engaged. eh, this is fascism. he does not have this national face of his, therefore if it was then why can't it be now? well, this is a story for you, in general, collaborationism is a betrayal - this is about revan from me, it’s from personal growth, it’s some kind of moral deformity, what is it all about, we again begin to mix concepts, you know, and we say, if in a broad sense of collaboration,

then how after the war , again, a great injustice was committed against the population that began to live in the occupied territory in the questionnaires were written. you had to fill in the box. was you or your parents in the occupied territories, it was, in fact, a restriction in rights , that is, they did not accept or study at some prestigious universities, they did not hire, they did not appoint them to positions, although people were not guilty of anything. yes, in the same fight, the same digging out of enemy elements. we were losing people, we were losing fellow citizens, we were losing faith, there was a huge mistake, because everyone was mixed up, and at the same time they were amnestied. without looking at those who, well, relatively speaking, as i said, someone worked there at the factory or worked on the railroad. well, he threw coal into the tender, drove a steam locomotive, and what is

his betrayal here, whom did he betray. they can tell me that he could not throw, coal or there, something he had to go to the partisan detachment, if such an opinion, but this is again a delusion, because far from all physically strong people were accepted into the partisans and that it was necessary there were weapons, because somehow everyone forgot that the partisans were choking without weapons. they had problems, real problems with weapons and with cartridges. eh, and even once it was calculated to capture there in a conditional garrison, a box of cartridges, you have to spend two. that is, that's why everything depended on supplies from the mainland. they will not bring and condemn these people. mouth. in the partisan detachment, i also don’t need it, if it’s stronger. camps, therefore, those people who very often fell during punitive operations , and who were shot and appeared in german reports, how we destroyed there, uh,

so many thousands of partisans there. i’m almost sure that it was just these peaceful ordinary people who simply hid in the forests from these punishers. and their nastya was overtaken by this death somewhere, and there were those who, again, consciously. eh, went to cooperate. eh, i took it. uh, the weapon and used it, because now they are being deceived by excuses, they were told that they would guard the warehouses. perhaps they have been deceived. but what could be some kind of deception. when you see this shed, into which people are driven, you have to be a completely stupid cave idiot in order not to understand what will happen the next moment and when at the trial of these court reports. and you read that here is my platoon, the company commanders lined up there or ordered me there or my squad? i gave the order everyone fired, i did not fire. well, i understand, when

it has already come to court. he tries to justify himself, so to speak, but in fact, he shot shot. he all fired orders , even if major kerner did not take out a pistol from his holster. so we also know that the nazis themselves or the nazi germans were surprised at the ferocity they showed towards break each other. people, rather, they were surprised at how much, as they wrote in the report on the same operation, winter magic. eh, counting these e members of the latvian police battalions. what are they as far as they are, this is absolutely wild for them. this is the killing of people, uh, civilians, even for the germans themselves, the germans. after all, they were completely different. they are also impossible to cut them all under one. a film, because in khatyn a german

left the life of vladimir yaskevich, and not someone else, this is also a fact from him, we do not hide and we’re not going anywhere, it happened, but there were those completely, so to speak, in quotation marks of their own, who committed these terrible inhuman crimes. how did you rightly say in our last meeting that there are few who want to repent? unfortunately. in general, in my opinion, the number of them has sharply decreased. it's all here, uh, political environment. and probably our regular calls to do this are unlikely to lead to anything. yes, nevertheless, you understand, firstly, a drop wears away a stone. and, secondly, uh, without repentance, precisely without repentance is impossible reconciliation.

you can talk there about what you need to forget and forgive to turn the page and the like, but if you don’t repent, at least publicly, maybe even with some kind of wormhole in your heart, but if this doesn’t happen, if you freeze in your arrogance and still consider us because of the second class people, but this will never move. well, at least they are now frozen in this pose, yes, arrogant. uh. well, you don't like mysticism. i understood, but i personally see that the rebirth begins on the sixteenth seventeenth century. here from las gorev e, khatyn again and again, and this temple makes me very happy in general, everything that you dreamed about. what you were talking about, she has been quietly for a very long time. and even now i sometimes write about it or say that in the history of khatyn, as in a mirror. such a small mirror reflected the whole history of belarus. there were periods of prosperity , there were periods of some kind of terrible. uh,

destruction events of catastrophes, uh, and genocides, that's all. this here also experienced them. but, of course, i was worried about speaking globally. naturally, the whole country, but if we talk about the memorial here, then there is a period. e of some kind of snowfall was replaced by a renaissance period , dawn, and then history moved along some kind of its own path. well, for a long time you dreamed for many years about the reconstruction of the memorial complex and the creation of a museum. this is all already done. what will you dream about for the next 5 years, i do not live for tomorrow. i live for today. therefore, missing again, here is what is planned for today for tomorrow, and there god, the news will be seen, we thank you for this today's conversation. she can't

be. e, no other than such a sincere intonation, because we know you as a person who wholeheartedly cheers for the work he is doing, and let it be all the same. well your new book and your new ideas are being realized. uh, with the help of those people who help you in this good cause. and we tatyana shcherbina victoria popova say goodbye to you today. goodbye. goodbye. and now he says, arthur zelsky. there is such a dream, not that even a dream is rather such an idea and pass. a small story like this e history e, the struggle of a partisan girl, or rather an underground fighter , came into the movement of resistance and her death. that is, it is a story of struggle against betrayal and

life. now, if it worked out, if it worked out, even something can be removed therefore. i won't tell the script, but still. this, probably, would be interesting not only for me, but, perhaps, would arouse the interest of others. thank you the most current event from the world of sports, where the cheater continues to fight for play-in

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