[000:00:00;00] thousands of young citizens of russia and belarus with a good quality education, modern education, in the overall work on the formation of production chains , on the introduction of the most advanced achievements of neokr, on focusing on those tasks of import substitution, the experience of previous forums has shown that a lot of agreements have been reached, literally every the party has gained a lot of practical experience from our communication, because each individual group has good competencies, but they need to be shared, this enriches each of us. forum will last until friday, following its results it is planned to sign a resolution. slutsk invites you to plunge into virtual history. rarities from museums in the minsk region are presented at an exhibition of holograms in the vladimir sadin art gallery. there are 24 virtual objects in total. the idea of ​​​​creating a project for the poetry of museum values ​​belongs to the minsk regional regional museum, and state museums of the central

region became participants. hello, the “sas” program is on air, i have full authority to announce, i am its presenter nadezhda sas,

i greet you. let me remind you that this is a program for those who want to better understand what is happening and understand how these processes, events, people will affect the life of the country and each of us. let's summarize the results of the parliamentary elections in poland immediately after the digest of the key events in world politics this week. more than 800 people were killed and injured due to the attack on the aliarave hospital in the gaza strip. palestine blamed israel for the attack. in turn , israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu stated that the israeli military was not involved. the israeli army is convinced that islam is guilty jihad. the heads of middle eastern countries blamed jerusalem for what happened. authorities in iraq and saudi arabia called the attack a war crime, and the egyptian president said israel had violated international laws and demanded an immediate ceasefire. and the jordanian leadership canceled a planned summit on the israeli-palestinian conflict

with the leaders of the united states, egypt and palestine. in belgium , a gunman shouting allah akbar shot and killed two swedish fans. the incident occurred approximately five kilometers from the stadium, where the qualifying match for euro 2024 between the football teams of belgium and sweden. after news of the shooting, the game was interrupted. a video appeared on social media in which an arabic-speaking man claimed that he was the shooter. in the video , he called himself a follower of the islamic state group and said that he killed infidels, thereby avenging the muslims who were dying for the religion. the situation with the terrorist attack may repeat itself, because belgium has become a refuge for hundreds of thousands of immigrants who do not integrate into european society. in beijing, on the last day of the international forum, one train, one track , negotiations between vladimir putin and sidzenping took place. the meeting lasted 3 hours. putin agreed with the need for close foreign policy

coordination between moscow and beijing. he also shared his forecast that trade turnover between russia and china will exceed 200 billion by the end of 2023. the head of gazprom, alexey miller , said on the sidelines of the forum that the volume of pipeline supplies of russian gas to china in the near future could reach the volume that was previously supplied to the countries western europe. since 2019, russia has been supplying gas to china via the power of siberia pipeline. it is expected that by 2024 supplies through it will reach volume. 30 billion km, there is also a project for the siberia power 2 gas pipeline, which involves supplying up to 50 billion cubic meters of gas from russia to china through mongolia. well, today we are talking about poland again. in warsaw, not only is the government changing, politics, internal struggle, and the traditions of gentry civil strife are returning there again. and i would like to quote

about this from the historian nikolai heinz. leaving... the gentry sought for itself freedom, which can exist only in an abstract concept, and the result of such efforts was a veto, giving... the right to one member of the sejm to paralyze the decision of all the others, the famous historical prohibition, the phrase "which can serve as the best eloquent epitaph over the political grave of poland." will those who imagine themselves the builders of the new polish-lithuanian commonwealth await the same ending that befell such a past power, we talk in today’s program, i’m glad to welcome you to our studio already nikolai evgenievich budin, doctor of military sciences, professor is present, hello. and nikolai moratovich mizhevich, doctor of economics, director of the center for belarusian studies at the institute of europe and the russian academy of sciences, i am glad to welcome you, good afternoon , according to tradition, we begin our program with a quick question, do you expect that poland will now

plunge into itself and limit its international ambitions, nikolai marotovich, i think that for the next month, poland’s activity on foreign policy tracks, as they now say, well, we must first figure it out, who owns the country, and then move to the east against russia and belarus or to the west against germany, but first you still need to understand yourself a little, given the recent resignations of a number of leaders of the armed forces, the polish republic, this task is urgent, and then, then everything will return to the previous anti-belarusian... russian course, yes, nikolai evgeniy, will the internal and external policy change, and will there be enough, taking into account internal strife, for external activities, i completely agree with

nikolai oratovich, the part concerning activity of poland in the near future, it will be until approximately the new year, busy with its internal issues , periodically turning to the external vector, so to speak, but as for the fact that activity will decrease, probably not, in all likelihood not, because as soon as they will sort it out inside, they will immediately remember about the grievances, they will immediately remember about their geostrategic tasks, immediately, if they forget, their overlord will remind them of what they must do in the near future, i am definitely glad to welcome you to our studio, joseph skala, leader of the czech communist party mora. we are glad to see you, we are discussing the results of the parliamentary elections in poland, how did czech society personally perceive the results of these elections, did they surprise you?

good afternoon to you and your colleagues and good afternoon, of course, to all tv viewers, the polish public may not be so interested in the polish elections, but that part of our society that is more politically active, in my opinion, is precisely it... the alternative part would agree with what your guests in the studio simply said, yes, poland has very little independent in its foreign policy, it connects to the tasks of its sovereign, as it was beautifully called here, and i think that the difference between donald tusk and his government and the previous government will be more in the details than in any strategic changes. i wanted to say that our generation, which remembers more , of course, can hardly forget about the very tragic consequences of polish nationalism in the thirties, when it

finally got involved with the munich diktat, simply stole from us part of our territory and so on, and it seems to me that this illness is spiritual, maybe it is mental, it is returning to polish nationalists, they just think again that they can become some kind of important player on behalf of a foreign power, in the thirties we all remember who was this power, today we also know who that power is, so this is for us, not a very good neighbor from that point of view, i just want a minute. draw the attention of our viewers and, of course , clarify with you: right, justice on the one hand, civil position, on the other, here if we are talking about establishing relationships, will foreign

policy change relations with the same republic of belarus, in your opinion, because part of the belarusian society is convinced that tusk’s civic position is rather a new opportunity for softer relationships... and others, so , now that the conflict in the east in ukraine, he says, we are going in a direction in which the west did not expect it, in my opinion, the european union will also have to maneuver, here the question of large emigration from ukrainians to the west, even to poland, will arise and so on and other, so to speak, consequences of what is happening in ukraine . maybe poland itself will feel more

of its own, say, survival instinct, or as it is called in russian, and will not pursue such a stupid policy that does not help either europe, not poland, not us. thank you very much, josef skala, the leader of the moravian communist party was in touch with us, nikolai evgenievich, please tell me, right and justice really changed its communication with the electorate, literally, not a month before elections, we remembered that ukrainians behave quite aggressively in poland , we remembered that we need to think about personal interests, again, the situation with the ukrainian grain emarga, how do you think their politics, rights and justice will develop further? a specific party that is adaptive, this word probably suits its leaders very well, they are ready to adapt to the situation, they have a good sense of the intensity of passions in society, and

even the most amazing thing they know how to give back , they know how to use their own mistakes in in the interests of pursuing one’s own policy, therefore, to say that something will change is, in my opinion, wrong; in all likelihood, these were all election promises and the playing of those cards that could bring some benefit to the party as soon as the elections were held with the authorities will understand everything, if they retain power, i think everything will be switched to the same realities as it was, and probably the interest of their own people will be secondary in relation to the tasks that the party leaders will solve, well, after processing 100% of the ballots, we can confidently say that the conservatives and the far-right are losing the parliament, the coalitions of the left and liberals, the power in poland is really changing, let’s pay attention to the graphics with the results of the parliamentary elections,

colleagues, please, it is gratifying that in belarus and russia those few who follow poland, the attitude towards this is much more rational and reasonable than in europe and poland itself, where they sing the asana to get rid of kochinsky, the understanding that for belarus nothing will change from the change of power anyway, gives detachment and emotionlessness, so they contribute to analyticalness. nikolai moratovich. absolutely correct formulation of the question, we are calm, we are rational, we are still for the most part not poles, although poles live in the republic of belarus, in the russian federation, but the majority, let’s say, are not poles, so we look at how you are winners in in the elections, treat us, well , it’s quite natural, yes, everyone looks that way, so what do we see, right, justice and the civil platform are forces. in relation to moscow and minsk, occupying

almost the same position. yes , justice and justice are oriented towards washington, the civil platform is oriented towards berlin and brussels, but whether this makes it easier for us, for us there is some difference, no. another thing is that it is not very clear who will start looking for ways for negotiations and compromise first, brussels with berlin or washington with london. well, what if washington. with london or brussels and berlin will begin to look for ways to negotiate with moscow and minsk, which means the position of these parties will change, they will be the first to arrive to moscow, to minsk , and so to speak, uh, delegations will be sent, and flags will be brought, and peace and friendship will begin, well, at least business, to be honest, is already quite good in our time, but for this the position must change not in warsaw, washington, brussels. and how correct is it to say that power is changing in poland

, taking into account the fact that the country has a fairly strong presidential institution, and anzhi duda will remain in this post until 2025, power does not change, only individual policy vectors can change, nothing more, i once again want to draw your attention to this graph, it is very indicative, justice is a civil platform, by and large there is an internal showdown within the framework. elite, one part of the elite is trying to maintain its status quo to remain in power, the second part is a civil platform. the third way is the new left to create some kind of new reality or maybe development, but nothing will change fundamentally, and about this, this is the main thesis that is necessary understood by all who are considering this election, the essence of poland’s policy will not change, it doesn’t matter, we really liked the previous

remark, if it’s the united states, europe, no, forget it, the usa, europe, this is particular , the main thing is there is a position, let’s call it the western world. it doesn’t matter, but europe today works under the united states, it lies under the united states and we can’t get away from this , the united states today is the most powerful state that imposes its position on the european union, accordingly, will poland be closer to the european union, closer to the united states the states, either she will report directly, receiving instructions, or she will receive the same instructions through the european union,

so there is hope for improvement. polish diplomats, including those who work for us, adhere to this, they need to give them their due, well done, they understand what is happening, but they also gave up, they are waiting for elections and saying, but if new forces come to power, then there is hope that there will be some kind of reboot, well, yes, we can hope for that, but we, you see, we don’t hope for anything, we are preparing to the maximum. to the worst case scenario, prepare for the worst, it’s better, okay, yes, it’s impossible not to agree, and indeed, i think that the president also supports your words regarding the fact that you can’t entertain yourself with illusions, you can’t watch what’s happening with rose-colored glasses, unfortunately, this is again

an illusion of choice among citizens of the european union, it is present, but in fact nothing changes, nikolai. it is important that our viewers understand that the party of law and justice that ruled for 8 years was opposed not just by three separate political forces with their own programs, they are quite different from each other, quite significantly, but also the fact that each of the three opposition parties is essentially an electoral bloc uniting smaller political forces, in other words, in fact, in the new coalition there will be not just three subjects, but at least six, from the ultra-liberal spring... led by the openly gay robert biedran to the conservative polish peasant party, this is how they can jointly govern , interact, it is very difficult, they will have to negotiate, in fact, that’s why in the very at the beginning of your program there was a big quote about liberumto, about the omnipotence of the gentry, and

so on and so forth, when we come to warsaw, naturally, i’ve been there, well, a couple of dozen times, right? well, yes, classical european... well, of course, in catholic, generally conservative poland, you can hold a gay parade in warsaw, but when you come to some, well, as we say, regional center, lublin voivodeship, i assure you, what a gay parade, here if i don’t serve in the church at the appointed time, which means i’m already out of school hell, because any normal pole must be in the service, he must introduce... the life that his ancestors led, that is, it is in the east, to a lesser extent in the west, of course, for obvious reasons, but this is a country of traditions, here on such traditionalists are based on justice, will be based, and by the way, this is what unites us, and, by the way, when the first time justice came to power,

we had certain hopes that this would be an understanding of christian values ​​and traditions , will unite us, but alas, anti-russian, anti-belarusian issues knocked poland out of the number of, not even allies, but simply neutral countries , but it’s no coincidence that we saw the president of the republic of belarus in uniform, surrounded by the military, why does everything bother us in polish relations with poland, but that’s all in general it is calm, because poland, poland of the 21st century, respects strength and sees what is in the republics... belarus is not unarmed, understands the threats, so they can talk a lot, and will talk, no matter who forms the coalition, but i still i proceed from... that they will not agree to obvious open military provocations, although this is some kind of courage in the presence of the respected nikolai

evgenvich, to declare such forecasts, by the way, it is interesting how the voter makes his choice, because for some, tusk is really a product of soros, yes, the globalist elites , it also certainly has a threat, the imposition of the traditional, classical in the perception of man, and the world of poland and globalist ideas, which are indeed alien to many, but in this case they give preference civil position, because the militant rhetoric has tired many, which we hear every day from the mouth of the same moravian, duda, i would probably say this, we cannot fully predict on what basis a simple pole makes a choice, because we do not live there , we don’t know this situation, but based on... let’s say, a look from the outside allows us to say that today poland is split, split not really, but

mentally, there is practically, i won’t say 50/50, but somewhere around 40/40 , plus some additional components, these are people, these 40%, these are the people who adhere to almost radical positions, and one thing, you understand, the gap is not only mental , not only geographically, not only economically, components have appeared here that poland could not even think about before, since it is, in principle, a single state, the majority , the poles, it was correctly said, catholics with the corresponding values, thus rocked the state, showed it, they made it so dependent on the europeans that today they themselves have to defend their identity, surprisingly right justice, which... they baptize from right to left, is the force that defends, at least in the eyes

of the poles, this identity and historicity, yes, they play on nationalism, yes, they very much play the military card, but at the same time time they are trying to break away from the protectorate of europe and the dictatorship of europe, a specific dictatorship in the economic sphere, a specific dictatorship in other areas, including in the social sphere, this gay, as you say, the gay pride parade, everything else is what is tearing apart including polish society, not everyone is ready for this, justice has been in power for a long time, people are already a little tired of it, and the most important thing is that tusk , who was before this prime minister, during his reign, let’s say, poland lived in better conditions, but the circumstances there were others, there were good relations with the east, it was a transit state but received a subsidy from the european union, that is, people really remember this, it was better then, and today each of the poles votes with nothing more than

their own pocket and the future that it sees for his people, children, grandchildren and so on, here there is hope for something new, but at the same time there is the concept that this new thing can make things worse for the country and for him personally as a citizen, something like this, we are talking about donald tusk. and of course, i would like to remind our dear viewers of the section portraits from his biography. donald tusk. attention to the screen. donald tusk is a polish and european political figure, one of the founders of the polish civic platform party. from 2007 to 2014 there was prime minister of poland, then resigned to become president of the european council from 2019 to 2022. was chairman of the european people's party, the largest transnational party in the european union. tusk repeatedly proposed radically

changing the polish constitution, limiting the role of the president and expanding the powers of the head of government, strengthening the senate and reducing the number of siem deputies from 460 to 300, but all this remained unrealized. he also advocated close political and economic integration of poland into the european union, in which the country joined in 2004, advocates maintaining. eu sanctions against russia until the territorial integrity of ukraine is fully restored. nikolaich, we have been saying quite often lately that bright personalities, bright leaders in the european union have been exterminated. merkel was probably the final character who left the merkel era. mr. tusk, this is your personal attitude towards him, recalling various episodes of his biography. mr tusk enjoyed good

support during the period when he was prime minister, he enjoys the support of part of the polish population, in fact, elections were held for him as a political figure, but there is a nuance, donald tusk, a pole, but a koshup, is a nationality, or ethnic group, of germanized poles who experienced the greatest impact from prussia, he is not from the point of view of programs, not from the point of view of the program, he is pro-european, he is, as they sometimes say, pro-european for life, in this sense nothing good can be expected from him, but indeed, in his humble days, poland developed very active ties with china, and how to get from china to poland

, dozens, hundreds of trains with cargo went through russia and belarus, from europe to china, from china to europe, and each pole received a very specific zloty from this. in many ways, it seems to me, a vote for his party is a vote in support of that course, but it cannot be, because today tusk’s position regarding russia and belarus is no different from the position of his opponents, on abortion, yes, but you know, poland after all , it’s not ethiopia that has an abortion problem. well not like that worries absolutely all age groups, well, somehow, in general, even this problem is being solved, and one more thing, well, from personal impressions, in eastern poland, i have heard many times from my polish friends that this is a german, they simply call him

german, and here you have to understand, any pole hears from his mother in the cradle that trust the russians and don’t trust the germans, that is, yes, the main enemies are in the east, but in the west they are also enemies, in this sense, here is the last vote, which we speak, the western voivodeship voted for tutsk and his party, and the eastern for kaczynski, of course, this is at the level of voivodships, at the level of gminas, powiats, the situation will look much more complicated, generally as usual, well, minsk votes differently, moscow votes differently, riga votes differently than latvia, yes, well you like, but in general this situation exists, so there will be some instability , and why does tusk actually propose to limit the powers of the president, well, because this is an old polish game, then increase the powers of the president, then reduce it,

pelsudsky was removed from power, he served a prison term, thought with the military, so to speak, settled the issues once and the coup in poland and returned to save the polish state, although he died, i would say on time, the whole weight of the shame of the division of czechoslovakia, which we heard from our respected colleague from the czech republic, did not fall on his shoulders, there was another there was enough shame, but this didn’t fall on him, it fell on his successors , which is why, of course, in poland now... there will be not very simple processes, first they will propose to form a coalition, of course , morov’s, that is, justice, and then, of course, if morovetsky fails, and the chances are 50 to 50, yes, how to meet nazybedskaya’s dinosaur, yes, what are the chances, 50% of the meeting is 50 no, but then they will transfer the right to form coalitions to tusk, but he may not

succeed, then new ones elections, and this will happen of course, the opposition naturally expects tusk to take the position of prime minister, is there a chance, nikolai evgenovich, what do you think? there is a possibility, but again, i agree with my colleague, 50/50, no more, for one simple reason, it cannot be written off today the authority of peace is impossible, this is such a party that, again, uses any factors in its own interests. i won’t be surprised if they find their supporters within these parties, which are big, where we say there is not just one party, there are several parties within them, and it will be enough for them, somewhere around a few dozen votes, which may even they won’t directly support them, but

they will vote as necessary, either buy them or persuade them. the party of law and justice has a very large resource left, including in government bodies, in the media, in the financial sector, in the industrial sector. economics and so on, so the likelihood that this could happen, tusk, is 50/50, but i also want to address one point, tusk, because horseradish radishes are not sweeter in the grand scheme of things, kaczynski happened, well, if we go into history , he comes from the family of a regional army officer, kochinsky, as for tusk, his grandfather served in the german troops for a period. and then the most interesting thing is that he himself is like historian, by the way, his first education was in history, he studied pelsudsky very carefully and he even had a corresponding job when he studied at

the university regarding pelsudsky, i in no way exclude the possibility that the example of this polish politician stuck very deeply with him, direction to the east he has in his head just like kaczynski, and solves his problems at the expense of outside. this is a very good option that can be solved by one or the other candidate, it won’t make it any easier for us. i remind you that sas is authorized to air the program we are summing up the results of the parliamentary elections in poland. our film crew visited poland on the eve of and after the parliamentary elections, talked with the poles, learned about their mood. the states pursue their own policies and want to control the polish state, its government, they demand influence on the central systems of the country, and today we can clearly see how we have lost

polish sovereignty. we in poland have lost everything that entire generations have built. we are watching this government with sadness, we have slipped in our standard of living by several decades ago, inflation is rising, the economy is in decline. we are approaching the moment when we will be withdrawn from schengen and the european union. there are not even competitors in these elections, be it the opposition or the ruling party, there is one principle of pursuing american interests , they leave the poor polish people, literally speaking, poor and weak, we cannot do what we need, we are not able to compete to have equal rights political struggle with our modest means. today at a very critical moment in this election, which should influence on the life of a pole, we only get... without this political sovereignty and the ability to somehow influence it, we cannot in any way follow in accordance with national interests. let's continue our discussion.

of course, i would like to draw attention in a little more detail to the opposition parties in poland that are going to form a coalition. on many issues, they differ, and the coalition will be problematic . let’s take a closer look at our certificates, which we prepared with our colleagues. according to the results of the elections in poland, the majority of seats in in total, three opposition parties received parliament: the civil coalition led by donald tusk received more than 30% of the votes. the alliance promises to correct the mistakes of the current government in foreign and domestic policy, improve relations with brussels, and also free state media and cultural activities from the current restrictions and censorship. about 15% of voters supported the third way, a bloc based on the centrist polish peasant party. advocates an active role for the country in the european union and nato the need to strengthen relations with germany and france within the framework of the weimer triangle, against the centralization of expanding the rights of influence

of local government, about 9% of residents sided with the unification of left-wing parties. supporters of the movement support the establishment of relations between polish regions and the kalining region of russia, oppose the transatlantic trade and investment partnership, and rewrite the history of the second world war in honor of the red army in poland. nikolai boratovich, it was not in vain that you said that donald tusk is in poland called german. the experience of the coalition of social democrats, greens and liberals in germany itself has shown what an artificial unification of all the friends of the globalists is, but in fact it turns out to be an ineffective team of government managers, and the office of olaf scholz is now breaking all anti-records with its, well, really... level support in society, can we expect that tusk’s coalition will also face such an imminent crisis, collapse and early elections, which you have already talked about, and which will ensure revenge

for the piss? social democrats 100 years ago, this there was a party that ultimately did not form a bloc with the communists in germany, as a result hitler came to power, then in the concentration camps the social democrats and communists lived quite amicably, but not for long. this was the price for the mistake, but 100 years have passed. and those people who call themselves social democrats in europe today have nothing to do with social democracy; in their historical continuity, these are just hitler, not at all the social democrats of the weimar republic in germany, exactly the same

pseudo social democrats in estonia there is, in latvia in lithuania, democrats in germany, they are faithful servants, well, as we would say, before, of the most vile imperialism and hegemonism, and their ancestors, and with the same name, went to the barricades against fascism, that’s the story, so they are a serious opponent for donald tusk is levitsa. but it is still the weakest in the opposition system, this battle, a fight with kaczynski and his henchmen, does not promise anything good for us, in foreign policy they, alas, are very similar, expect some steps from them in our direction, for now

at least there is no reason, although you know, not so long ago i spoke with a member of the european parliament. he even took part in our program via skype several times and took part in a round table in the european parliament, but after that the latvian vice-president decided to block our access to this institution, but nothing, i think we have other methods of communication, so he told me that not so long ago he talked with a member of the european parliament who represents poland over a glass of beer, then he tells him, you know that i i’m doing it right now, he says, well, tell me, they’re reading dostoevsky in russian. maximilian really laughed and was surprised and said: why? says: i think it will come in handy soon. this is how nikolai evgenievich interprets such words, because it seems that the russophobic position has captured the whole of poland, although it seems to me that thinking people, and even part of society, unfortunately we do not have this sociology, but are not configured like us imagine, that word, you said correctly, that

’s part of the answer in your question, thinking... people, they exist, they exist in poland, and there are sober-minded people, and those who today see what a dilemma the country is facing, it’s not for nothing that 72% of poles came to the polls, this has never happened, even the previous time when the soviet regime was demolished, this was in the nineties, it reached the maximum, there was 67 percent or something, that is, people see that life has become worse. that they are going somewhere incomprehensible, those who think have appeared, they have always been there, but people have appeared who understand that poland may be late, poland may not have time to fit into the new the picture of the modern world, which is being built today in no way in europe, it is being built today in the east, that’s exactly the summit, which took one train, one track in china, where the chinese...

russian leader met, that’s where the foundations of the future world order are being laid, and poland today, the politicians of poland, they cut off this component and place poland outside this, outside this new formation, so smart people began to re-read - philosophical books in russian, they understand that by cutting off the eastern vectors... and refusing to work interaction with those who have ensured the economic development of europe for centuries is impossible, this is nonsense, this is an artificial formation, it is illogical, there is such a concept, logic, it calls for interaction, and those states that do not understand this in the near future

will remain beyond the threshold of history, so today some begin to read in russian, some carefully look at what the belarusian language is, and some remember that the kalining region is still a part of russia, and not, as some call it, change the name, introduce incomprehensible understanding, sanctions, this is an outdated way of conducting dialogue, today we must... move not to a monologue on the one hand, to a mutually respectful dialogue. thank you very much for the moravian grain embargo against ukraine carried out by the moravian government, we have already talked about this, but they are expecting a new rapprochement with kiev from the tusk government, nikolaych, do you agree with this, or is this again someone else’s

wishlist, of course, kiev would like to have a guaranteed communication channel with berlin and brussels through warsaw, but there is no need to overestimate the degree of influence of donald tusk and his supporters, they cannot, they do not have such results as to ignore the opinion of at least half of the poles, and the half of the poles that really depended on the gap deal are farmers, processors, residents of small towns, towns, they are kaczynski’s electorate, and if they now... feel a threat - that tusk , suppose he comes to power, will implement this agenda in the presidential elections, they will all vote for his protege law and justice, then the government , even if it is formed by usk, will have a bad time,

the army will have rule and justice, foreign affairs will have rule and justice, like the president, and state security will also have law and justice. and these are serious levers, these are very serious levers, well then, after all, in good old poland one can never rule out a military coup as a means of solving internal problems, tradition, well, it’s tough, by the way, it is important to note that the new coalition will include the polish peasant party , here she is strongly opposes the supply of ukrainian products, so somehow they can come to an agreement, but most likely with difficulty, in the end tusk will either maintain the ban on ukrainian products... or they risk collapsing your coalition already at the start, well, something like this somewhere around here we still need to look at the third option, maybe tusk, because if he manages to create a government for himself, he can come to an agreement with the european union, here

there may be corresponding additional payments from the european union, corresponding bonuses that will make it possible to cover this direction, including including work with ukraine, but this is again huge, the risks for the european budget and yes, tusk will be helped, i have no doubt, the european union will help him, and this issue will not be resolved, but such friendship as there was six months ago, almost a union of two states into a single confederation and so on, this will not happen, every person, every citizen, including a polish citizen, he first of all thinks that this will bring him, but it will bring collapse... polish agriculture, then industry will go, problems in the financial sector and so on, it is on the rise, that the trigger in this case may be just agriculture, and the electorate of agriculture is the electorate of kochinsky, and here the elites will have to negotiate, they will not find

common ground, this is where there will be problems, and of course nothing fundamentally will change in poland’s foreign defense policy, and even in relations with germany everything will not be as it was before. polish liberals will always find reasons for new friction with ukraine, because the reason for these frictions is fundamental. ukrainian nationalism is ready to accept external control over the ukrainians by anyone, just not a pole or a non-kap. look, what a thing, there are half as many people living in estonia as in minsk. for brussels, feeding estonia is not a problem at all. but poland is a completely different conversation, take into account all the wishes of mr. tusk, compensate for this, this, these are absolutely wild

expenses for rearmament, that is, for brussels to pay in warsaw, and she will use this money to buy weapons in korea and washington . well, let's not do it at all brussels to flee, well... buying the loyalty of the younger members of the coalition from tusk is not so much, they will give him something for old times sake, after all, a european leader of this class, but not everything at all, poland is too big, well then absolutely true, in order to... help warsaw, there must be other people in berlin. merkel with her east german past and traditions of some kind of historical awareness. before poland, before even the soviet union, this is a different person, today the

german foreign ministry is headed by a lady, well, whose views, to put it mildly, raise questions not only from a political, but from a medical point of view, adequacy, yes, that is , questions of adequacy, so donald tusk’s corridor of opportunities is also generally narrowing. but look, not so long ago we discussed poland’s ambitions regarding ukraine on air. western ukraine, poland, we have already divided ukraine into three such quite significant pieces. today the situation has changed, what do you think is the reason? either you are temporary, again, firstly, you understand, this is an adaptation to time and solving political problems.

as for the wishes, they remain, in no way will poland give up this project, very serious future is tied to it, there are many political figures there, big money, the philosophy of a pole, an ordinary one who remembers what happened there and what happened, this is one thing, with on the other hand, look at ukraine, everyone divides it all the time, they tell this and that, but there is a real war going on there, and someone someday... will have to restore it, poland is not the player who is the world's best , he is not a world-class player who will be able to restore, put things in order even in ukraine, this is the first, second, there are historical differences that are largely not forgotten, and it is unknown how this will all be turned around, if god forbid, poland tries to move into the territory of ukraine , the third point, let's speak honestly, because the ukrainian army, even if it is small now, is a fighting army capable of fighting back, and if a solution to

the eastern direction is found, and compromises are resolved, i am far from thinking, that poland will be able to cope with the potential of ukraine if this suddenly happens, well, probably the most important thing is that poland itself probably realized long ago and the political elites themselves that they are not able to bite off this big piece, but they are not able to do it today, that’s why they are looking for those who will either pay for this component or help, and the bet is on the united states, but here is the worst thing, they cannot realize for themselves that the world has changed, the united states does not have the weight and the opportunities that it had recently, today's events on the middle east shows that even small states are not ready to sacrifice

their own. a state, so to speak, palestine, which really does not exist, but abas said that he would not meet with the president of the united states, and carried out this, where such a thing has been seen, but poland does not want to realize that it would be necessary to integrate into the new picture, so here. this internal showdown in poland, it goes to another plane. on a global scale, poland is a small state, solving its internal, small problems for the world, for europe, yes, this is some kind of litmus test, so let's say, paper, what is happening within the union, but no one perceives these political processes as a world event. please note, we are talking about this topic, the czech republic is already looking at it from the outside, germany

sees it even further, and other states generally say, where is poland, and this exists, they used to perceive ukraine in exactly the same way, yes, that’s it therefore, it seems to me that a huge part of ukrainian society is happy about the horror of what is happening, because for quite a long time ukraine has not left all the world media, from the front pages, today the situation has changed dramatically, nikolai. when conflicts of such a terrifying scale take place in the world, we see a religious war, the arab-israeli conflict, well, it’s impossible to look at this without tears, we see a conflict on the territory of ukraine, when two fraternal peoples clashed, i’m not afraid of this word, and we first of all, the slavs, and the fact that such rather unpleasant conflict situations occur in the relations between belarus and poland, that’s what you think, will the moment come, what you must be... on a global scale, so that all these internal squabbles, both internal and

external, they fade into the background, and understand the primary task, which was international. i think that this is quite possible, but for this you need to go to the very edge of the abyss, that is, not just go to the edge of the abyss , stand there, look there and still turn around, which is indicative of the conflict in the middle east, because our american, by the way, analysts clearly show the sequence of leading to a global conflict, drawing together iran, china, everything world, that is, everything is falling into one vortex, in the case of ukraine, i would note, despite the seriousness of the situation, that we have not sunk that far, sometimes our russian patriotic speakers say, well, we didn’t

drop a nuclear bomb on kiev, or although if there was something very big and heavy there, well, they wouldn’t have demolished the ukrainian one there... but look what happened to the hospital, those who were ready to believe that it was israel, they don’t need proof, they already know for sure that it is israel, you can kill them, but they still they will know that this is israel. those who are ready to believe the opposite, that it was the palestinians themselves who blew up their hospital , i don’t know how to kill them, but they are also confident in their truth, the conflict there... becomes irreversible in two or three moves. after all, we have been balancing on the very edge for a year and a half, a little more already. and it seems that no one wants to leave this edge into the abyss. pay attention to what

nikolai evgenevich said: poland is not ready to rely on all its capabilities, even for the sake of it. now, if the lions are brought to her on a plate with blue border, well, why not take it if they bring it, but just like that, so that the polish military can come and say, guys, well, 1,200 in total will need to be put in the poles, and your lions, no, they will say, what is this actually, and now imagine what they will be told, put the same 2000 for some kharkov, which has never been polish, well, with any geographer combinations or for the crimea and poleik will say, why? well, lviv is a place of our historical memory, and we have always been there and so on, but what about here? therefore the desire of poland or germany, especially there france, god forgive me, portugal and malta will fight to the last maltese for the sake

of kharkov, well, this will not happen, but the middle east, given that unique support. that the us is providing to israel is very dangerous, but the us has always acted this way, they have acted this way for 100 years, and the world has changed, and today the opinion of, well, in general , a second-rate emir from the persian gulf is becoming more and more heard, brazil says no , please, we are not satisfied with this, south africa, india, china, and so much that 80% of the planet, well, at least from... not from an american position to this conflict, the americans could not understand this from the example of ukraine, now they are being shown another picture, like guys, well, understand, times have already passed, you are not in seventy- three, well, buy calendar in the nearest stall, judging by mr. biden’s statements, he still cannot understand that he is really in 2023 and

it is impossible to control many processes, nikolai, the final word of today’s program, please, poland is. she's our next door neighbor and that's a given fate. you need to live amicably with your neighbors. i once again support and fully quote the words of our president: we must live amicably with our neighbors, build appropriate relationships, but remember that the dialogue must be two-way. we must remember our interests, we must remember who we are . if they want to talk to us, we must... not push us away , we should perhaps forgive some offenses, but we should never sacrifice our own interests, we should not go and work to please some guy, we have our own country , we have our own independence, we have partners and friends whom we support,

so god grant all the best to the polish people so that they understand their own politics. and in the end they realized that a good peace is always better than no matter what kind of war it is. thank you very much, i am grateful to the participants of the discussion for an interesting conversation, in conclusion i would like to remind you that the famous liberumvet ’s right to stop the work of the entire sejm, at the request of one deputy, was first used in 1669 by shlyakhtich from kiev adam alizar. it will be funny if now the ukrainian issue related to the export of grain through poland blocks the work of the new coalition in warsaw. the main thing is that it doesn’t work out, as they say in ukraine, when the slaves’ forelocks crack. thank you, this was the sas program , i fully declare. poland faces a long period

of internal political instability. sometimes, to see the most interesting things, you need to look at them in an array. the rest is also interesting, i believe that at all ceremonial events, the national anthem should be performed in full, independence is a relative concept, but we, we have this independence, we have sovereignty. at the same time, we are sovereignly diversifying our dependence, which is called multi-vector, but in essence it is just logic. the global goal of our sovereign right is to create combinations of interdependencies, to make sure that our interdependence with the world is as beneficial to us as possible. igor tur's author's view of the main events in the country and on the international stage.