>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> mark rollins is here. he won a tony award -- mark ry lance is here.

he is one to 20 wars. he is back on broadway laying the leads in two shakespeare plays. he is king richard and "richard the third" and olivier and "12th "twelfthlivia in night." inprovided a master class shakespearean acting. i am pleased to have him at the table for the first time. welcome. >> thanks, charlie. >> how did this happen? these two plays coming here for you to show your stuff? >> how did it happen? it took a few years. the set and clothing designers and the musical director and the kind of core players, people that worked with me a lot when i

was artistic director of the globe. in my tenure is finished, i immediately set about wanting to suppose, carrying on the core workable we did which i hope was a rigorous attempt to explore what i call original playing up practices. but we know from shakespeare's date. -- what we know from shakespeare's day. it took a long time. we had to figure a way to mount to productions. elizabethan spent their money on what they were on their backs. -- wore on their backs. >> what was your term in production? >> original playing practices. there should be not only an intellectual inquiry into how

the plays might have originally ,een played and what conditions but there should be a laboratory where you can explore with a live audience. he's that the last 25 years of his life the -- building the globe theatre and died in 1993. i became artistic director in 1995. his thinking about the globe was the inspiration for me. he demanded three things -- very, there'll the role -- very, research, and he thought -- he fought very hard for the building to be thatched. all kinds of old building technique. >> the premise would be we were more inside of shakespeare's head if we did that?

more about thern reason he broke the plays and the way he wrote them. -- he wrote the plays and the way he wrote them. we would be able to look at the time it takes, how fast they speak and play. would they play it two hours? would it take a longer time in indoor playing houses? actor, the space is remarkable because there is no lighting. it is daylight. they only played in the afternoon. greatare twowhopping pillars. there is no way you will be able to stand where someone won't see you, but everyone will hear you like a bell. the fact that they went to the globe, they would've said i want to hear "julius caesar." they never said they went to see

a play, they want to hear it. immediately demanded a lot more iately demanded a lot more on my part. >> 10 years as the director of the globe. lastu had to give a lecture about shakespeare, what would you want us to know? >> it may not be the deepest answer, but you cannot -- you will never get to the bottom of his sense of humor and wit. it is well known that one of the great things he is really good at doing is marrying opposites, juxtaposing opposing sounds. hot, eyes, cold fire -- ice, cold, fire. juxtaposing tragedy and comedy. his deep sense of humor, even in the tragic moments, it still

staggers me. i don't generally find it myself. i find it in a performance with the audience. >> the audience tells you what is humorous? >> i have come to feel that there is a collective thing that happens when a whole lot of people focus on this -- maybe religions know this, but it can theatre -- happen at the address as well. if you have a whole audience focused on one thing, it feels that each of our individual minds are a couple of something more we are together focused on something, as if the internet is just a manifestation of something that exists naturally. there is a collective consciousness in the room. >> the coalescing of everything is much larger than some of the sum of the then the individual parts. globe,icularly in the which is a circular building,

obviously. that collective experience of playing there for 10 years really awakened us to even more, the sense of humor is the thing hope i say that i would would take a long time before the universe destroys that. >> here is what brent -- ben brantley says. a celestial comedy, and "richard play,ird", a grizzly share a theme, it is that -- all the characters are in, some way, not what they seem. does that resonate with you? >> yeah. this is the thing about the original clothing. the clothing of the. . -- the clothing of the period.

it was illegal to wear certain colors on the street. you could be killed on the spot or wearing purple, for example. >> was it royal? >> yeah. you on the street, you would have to bow to some people. you could tell who was coming by the color what level of society they were and you have to be careful -- careful. the aristocrats didn't want to wear the same close so they gave them to the players. so they had remarkable close. more remarkable that a man playing a woman was a common man tending to be 18. standing to be a king. he could be in deep trouble outside the theater for playing an aristocrat. thethis thing about

theater, this was probably not a particularly wonderful material. on the outside would be slashed. the beautiful, very expensive gold silk which would be more as my house as an actor, that would show through underneath. they loved layers. they love hiding and revealing. i suppose that would be the next thing i say about shakespeare. if you want to enjoy it or if you want to make shakespeare plays, try and understand his deep love of hiding and revealing. fors it harder to prepare olivia that for richard? >> it is not such a comfortable place to go. olivia starts in deep grief, of course. >> comfortable place to go? of --that kind of feeling

i was reading this article by mike tyson about his childhood the other day. list andes of his being picked on as a kid in a kind of thing -- you can imagine that someone with richard's -- even though chase here made more of richard's his ability to they were, his spine was like that. -- even though shakespeare made more of richard's disability than it was, his spine was like that. create imagine it would a skeptical nature of god and conscious. be rejectedg would on him because of that. >> yeah. it is a sociopathic mind, isn't it? there's a certain amount of fun playing him.

the something odd when you have to come out and give the first speech. especially when it is a rather famous speech. >> that is hard. >> you have to push through a lot of false expectations and just think -- actually, all i am coming out to do is wait for my brother clarence to come by. i might as well talk to you about what is coming on -- going on. out withnight, you go some fearful thoughts in your mind? >> by that time, no -- i will start half an hour before -- i --lly will immerse myself up myself into the thinking of the character. i think with the character wants, needs, the way he -- his attention ranges. >> your him by the time you hit the stage?

>> yeah. >> or her? >> yeah. that is what you want to see. you want to be in the room with richard the third. >> what is the craft of doing that? >> i don't know. i don't know. >> it is your life. >> yeah, it is my life. let's people talk about it and write oaks about it. -- books about it. >> the read those books? >> to be honest, i have not. i think they are very good and can be very helpful. >> do not read him because you have other things you want to we -- want to read or -- >> i read them when i was a drama student and things like that. i prefer talking to people about acting. actors posture the conversation about acting about? >> why did that work? why didn't it work?

>> really? is fascinating. it is a way for me to get inside the performer to understand how they see it. >> i think they do it a little differently. my particular fate was to be born before there was even theater with a love to be someone i really was. >> before -- because you were alone? >> i have a great brother and sister. it would take part in the games as well. >> you chose to do that. you chose to pick your own companions. >> not only that but rather than play baseball or foot all -- to play "star trek" or "voyage of the bottom of the sea," -- this person wrote and reminded me that i am her son. i must've been -- l, i was -- i

tonk she was referring robert f kennedy's funeral. i think i was more six or seven. when the funeral took place -- >> the funeral would have been acted out the entire dash around -- we acted out the funeral around the grounds the whole weekend. bead some need to maybe witnessed, to act things out, to experience them. "twelfth night" and olivia, how do you get inside a woman's head? she is a woman, you know.

she has different physical qualities than a man. think what happens when you play a woman when you are a man is that your father or mother comes out quite a bit. i know when my mother came to hear or see me play cleopatra or olivia, two women that i played at the globe -- [laughter] she was a little quiet about it or it -- it. >> how quiet? >> my mother has plat -- past, god bless her. there are a lot of things that i feel about that side of me comes out. not that i focus on it, but it comes out. like any male character, she has certain things that she is longing for and certain obstacles that are preventing her -- >> your interest in shakespeare goes back to high school. >> it does.

i skipped the rest of the parts and just played hamlet. [laughter] >> you have since played hamlet, romeo, macbeth, olivia. >> i think i have been in 52 productions of plays by shakespeare or his contemporaries. milton. people at the time -- >> any better training for an actor? >> i would think so. they're much finer actors than me. >> no. to get your teeth into shakespearean characters. bestat the past -- possible training for an actor? likes no, i wouldn't say that. i am not of the opinion that shakespeare should be loved by everyone. >> or, because of the range it can give you an opportunity to dictate into understanding human nature, therefore understanding acting, therefore a larger ability to inhabit different characters?

>> it depends on how you approach it, doesn't it? you and i could get a same set of paints that picasso used. i don't think we would come up with the same thing he did. >> it does not come from the paint. it comes from the head. >> it comes from your life and how -- the way in which you deal with the shakespeare material. i don't know that robert rich and -- robert mitchum or spencer -- brandorando actually gives one of the best shakespearean performances that i have ever heard as mark antony. you get a fantastic performance from gielgud as caches. >> why is he so good for you? >> because he is so present. i totally believe that those words had never been said before and he absolutely needs to convince ed -- convince

friends, romans, countrymen that -- >> convince people that these words had never been said before and i had just thought them? >> yeah. i'm thinking them up as i speak. i'm stepping off to say watering about a glass of , and an ion up with the table, and then the glass of water. the tone of speaker changes. we organize these things are naturally when we are making up -- >> and not the trick of acting, but the skill of acting is to make it seemed every time that you just thought it up. it is not something that you memorize, it is something that comes from who you are and you just thought of it. >> our director, tim carol, has a wonderful phrase touches -- phrase which is played to win. i don't want to see them doing a

demonstration of the best tennis game ever that they rehearsed for six months and then he flips herein dice there. andnt them -- flips here dives there. i want to see them try to beat each other. when you're playing richard, i wanted ditch -- i want to pull them down into the ditch with me. i will do everything with what is written to convince my brother that i love them, to commence my other -- there's something you are trying to achieve, really trying to do it. as the word said, it is a play. that you foundid more humor in richard the third then belong there. >> they might all say that. i tend to find what i have been iii" that ihard

find more apparent villainy that i would ever spend time for. the danger with that is that if you don't give him someone that is charismatic and has a sense of humor than the other actors have to play a bit stupid and it diminishes the play. though i have never met -- i have met sociopaths and psychopaths, but they have been in institutions. the ones i have met have always seemed to be very gentle, humorous, incredibly intelligent people. the nurses or the doctors who were with us at the time said, yes, but don't stay in a room on your own with them. alone?t stay in a room -- i, i think the humor think the humor is a very effective way of disarming people whether i do too much of it or not, that is up to the

audience to decide. i have used about that myself. -- i have views about that myself. it is about disarming the audience and bringing the audience in, too. to senses audience something is happened, there needs to be a pleading moment of confusion. >> i have been to some place where a lot has happened, and to feel that no one was ever really confused, none of the actors, you know. even when a single cell grows into two, there must be a moment of confusion even at a cellular level. certainly in human endeavors, and my life, i spent a lot of times confused especially at great importance. >> confused about the consequences, confused about -- >> the right path to take. most plays are about that kind of thing.

you want to feel you are in the presence of, not always in the presence of people that know what they are doing but in the presence of people who are considering different options. wasn't brando graded that kind of acting? -- great at that kind of acting? it would be a long time when he considered many different ways of how he asked for a sip of coffee. and he might just take it. just because it is written in one way doesn't mean there aren't many other ways that the character might speak or do the next thing they are going to do. >> has acting been all that you thought it would be? >> it has been much more than i thought it would be, much more. -- ink i was really just was living in milwaukee at the time when i was 18. i just wanted to make a living. i thought i would be happy if i could make a living in this thing and i joy -- that i enjoy.

that would be fantastic. ♪

>> stephen fry is here.

he is a lot. he is interviewed steve jobs for time magazine, has been to prison, and thought he would dedicate his life to studying shakespeare. he is currently playing malvolio in "twelfth night." how is it to be on broadway with this remarkable production? >> it is remarkable not just speakingf the greatest actor in the world, mark rylance plays richard the third -- i am not in "richard ii." what you think that? >> is not a charisma that he has that is, to other actors. it is just quite something.

it -- -- the cap he described olivia. he said i have just seen the greatest stage actor. he was a nobody. he wanted to be a film student. they said to him, why? i said, i don't know. it is something he gives off. you can train to have it. aboutre is a famous story olivia having a remarkable performance. it was roddy mcdowell who went backstage and thought that this was a moment of a great performance. he was there and had his hands in his head and was sobbing. why? it was remarkable. he said, yes, but i don't know why. it will not be as remarkable tomorrow.

>> is that like sports. there is one day where the racket in your hand -- and the ball floats just inbounds and you can time it and you are in the right place. other days, no matter how hard you concentrate you can't hit it or it -- it it. >> it started in london. >> it did. we have had to bring it in slightly. the globe is like your table of -- table. it is like the wooden oak. you have half of it, as it were, is people standing. it is the art in there called the groundlings. they would not have paid a penny in the day. s werewere tears -- tier the aristocracy would have sat and watch. it is more or less the same now. xcept people queue in

line for a long time for the standing up seats as they love it. the relationship you have with your audience is utterly unique. there is nothing like it. you realize that every soliloquy is a conversation. >> it is an all-male cast? >> it is known as an original practices cast. every single element of the play , as far as we scholastically know, absolutely as it would've been in shakespeare's day. " wasow that "twelfth night performed in doors. it was in a whole that the lawyers use. we don't all look like because he has not changed since those days. hall lookswhat the like because it has not changed since those days. during the hour of daylight, you

can use the globe and outdoor theater. happily but you have the whole half of the rest of the year to keep your actors from starvation. you go to lawyer's halls, oxford and cambridge colleges, the houses of nobility's and you play you play there. this new one was clearly written for an indoor theater. you can sort of tell. it is not to say it is a difficult play. it is a whole areas, combustion was -- it is a hilarious farce. >> did you want to be a shakespearean scholar? >> it is kind of true. it was the thing i was best that at university. i found it easiest to write on shakespeare. i love reading on the plays and performing them at cambridge. i thought i would do a thesis, a doctoral thesis on shakespeare and quietly group -- in the

corner of a college somewhere. as one of my contemporaries has become the greatest shakespeare's scholar in the world, jonathan bates. >> talk about the part -- malvolio? am i saying that right? it is said that american southern english is closer to shakespearean english. >> malvolio means ill will. there is an -- it means he is ill disposed. ill will. there is an anagram at closetion because it is to olivia. malvolio. oliviahe steward to

because she is in morning. her father and brother died. she has the steward, malvolio. she has an uncle, toby, who is a drinker. she has a chambermaid who is very charming. she is a -- she has a full that tells a thing she does not like to hear, like king lear had. wail, seven years you will -- wear a veil and not look at the face of man or it a shipwreck happens with a twin brother and sister. they both think the other drowned. the sister comes up with see oh, my, and she says, brother drowned, what will i do? à la get back to where i come from? -- how will i get back to where i come from? she has a trunk of close, but they are her brother's) --

clothes, but they are her brother's clothes. bolivia's -- olivia starts to fall in love with her because she is dressing up like a brother. she doesn't know, but we know it is actually a girl. the language is very strong. it is often used by those who push the erotic nature of shakespeare's place. they talk about the pure love of and a never meet until the farcical moment, and they are on the stage at the same time, looking identical, and the -- she says, how come you don't know? says, how have you not made

divisions of yourself? and apple left and twain -- an --le clevfft in twain and it means a viola can marry sebastian, and the girl can married the duke. meanwhile, i have terrible tricks played on me because i am a shade of things to come. i'm a puritan, or there is a moment where i am described as a puritan. there is a moment where mariah rightly describes me, that devil, he is a puritan. i am very pleased with myself and i assume everyone adores me. they played is very cruel trick on me by leaving a letter around which looks as if it is a secret letter from olivia to me that says that she loves me and telling me to wear particular yellowg including stockings, cross bartered, and to smile all the time. gartered.

she is not in the mood for people smiling when she is grieving for people, her late father. look like avolio fool. he ends up in prison and nearly completely mad. >> tell me about your approach and what was it for you to get inside malvolio? >> some people say that he is a pompous, self-regarding asked. it took very little -- self- regarding ass. it took very little to stretch that. [laughter] our job is to entertain people. we did not have to display in the process. you have to believe the character. you have to see it from your point of view. malvolio actually believes that he is keeping the house,. he believes the influences of the full and mariah are bad and he thinks he would make a wonderful husband for olivia.

there is an example for it. the lady of the streets married the -- of the wardrobe. they're looking to times when the service has married their mistress or master. he goes off into a fantasy land. other people play them is highly wicked or quite comic. -- he said, i give you full permission to use my business. in the garden scene, make sure that your garden -- our director has a sundial. i used to come on and i would -- the sundial and then i would look at my watch, then look at the sundial, and look at my watch, then move the sundial. [laughter] >> friendship is such an interesting thing. it is almost the most interesting thing -- >> i think you're great ralph

waldo emerson said that friendfeed -- friendship is the masterpiece of nature. >> what is it about it that makes it so -- >> i think it is an odd thing. there is more embarrassment tween lovers than there is between friends. even though you do things with lovers -- >> more tolerance? >> absolutely. whether things go wrong with work or yourself, you don't even have to tell them anything, you just say get the whiskey body out -- whiskey bottle out where the coffee. i do have friends that are ex partners and stayed friends. i value that enormously. i dedicated one of my books to them. friend who is a -- who

is your other self. it is a friend that seals you up or it is an other half of you that complete you. only a friend with tell you this -- stephen, you are drinking too much. oh, no, it's just because -- no, you are drinking too much. it's time you see them come your proud. you don't say i haven't had a drink, you say i have only had two drinks since i last saw you. >> we had someone here a couple nights ago. this was a man who was a warrior and hero and was a green -- i mean, a navy seal. attacked, alld that. we're talking about courage and took huge thought it amounts occurs to commit suicide. do you think it does? >> i don't know. i have tried it and it is more times to savory -- more times

than it is savory to talk about on a program like this. i support mental health organizations and -- even though we are waiting for v to come out, the diagnostic and statistical manual that defines mental illness, even though it is not or two,us as below one they said it is more likely to lead toward suicidal ideations. it is the grim phrase they use. -- know two people >> goes in the middle of filming and in uganda -- >> what happens? is partly that i had spent a whole afternoon staring into the face of evil. it was the ugandan minister of

integrity for ethics. i kid you not. he was trying to bring about a bill that activex of homosexuality would bring the death penalty. acts of homosexuality would bring the death penalty. he said, -- i said, if i help someone's hand in the street and then kissed him, would i get the death penalty for yet -- for that? he said, no, but you would go to jail for a very long time. even if what they are saying is true, there is an epidemic at the moment in uganda thanks to the conversion to christianity. no longer condoms recommended as

a source of prevention from hiv. they are told that they spread them, which is such a wicked lie. there is idea that if you rape or have sex with a virgin, it will cure your age. -- cure your aids. they're these monstrous acts. there is an epidemic of child rape in uganda. ah, but it is the right kind of rate. i said, you do have the cameras running. you just said that raping a baby girl is the right kind of rape? if i left that interview as the light had been sucked out of me. it would have been bad enough for anybody. ng you had been interviewi him, you would have left her trembling. time to comet some

down, but the professional side of you would say, man, we got that on film. but i was alone, and i was miserable, and there were many things wrong with me, and because i was traveling so much i'd taken a load of sleeping pills with me because i was traveling thousand miles by train and i sat down and i was overcome. this -- >> dealing with manic depression? >> this feeling of absolutely no future. as if there was no future, no purpose,@-- that kind of, what point feeling? there was just no point in being alive. both my parents are living, my brother and sister. my nephews are living in afghanistan. many pills took as

as i could and washed it down with as much vodka as i could which was 2/3 of a bottle. >> did you write anything? >> no. >> did you think you did not want to die? as far as i know. when i woke up, i was in so much pain. whatever it taken, i had had convulsions and broke four ribs. they drove into a place and i got back to england and then it went to a care place where he met a fantastic psychiatrist or it -- psychiatrist. he said, well, it is your decision, isn't it? think if you try hard without medication, you will be dead in two years? what?

he said, you will. it is getting worse. he had read my case history. we can try some medication. i know that you have said that go one word after another in the service of a sentence and write a book and be on "the charlie rose show" and so on. i don't a be a zombie. give you too to much at first. so he gave me some ssris, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. [indiscernible] >> i have to sort of say to myself, we tried to burn down the white house in 1812, the

32nd president was, dot dot dot, just to make sure my brain was working. we refined the dose to write about so the medication works for me. i wrote about it. in fact, i did not write about. i waited until the first time i was asked. the same thing when coming out. pressn't want to call conference, saying, ladies and gentlemen, i am gay. ladies and gentlemen, i am insane. so there was a guy who does these podcasts, and he asked about my mental health, and said, how is it? i explained why. , youte a blog about it and want to tell people and you've got this condition, don't think

you were cast down into the depths forever. you want to tell them that it is very serious. go and see a doctor. don't think you can laugh it off. it is that mixture of getting it across. i think of danny -- >> and utter tragedy. we can be quite devious. we can hide from our friends how we are feeling. i presented a show and there were communications where evan a two-hour show when i was laughing, but underneath my stomach is saying into my brain, i am in hell. i am feeling so well and it is a bit like the alcoholic and scotland -- a colic -- i'll call it -- alcoholic in scotland, who says --

>> thank you for coming. thank you very much. ♪ >> and sophie mutter is here. sophie mutter is here. here's a look at the performance of her violent jericho -- violin concerto. ♪

>> i am pleased to have you back at this table. welcome. it has been 25 years since you made your debut at 25 -- carnegie hall. >> the one with the orchestra was a few years earlier. but it was 25 years since i played with the orchestra. i was really excited to perform on saturday evening. >> what we perform? >> -- what will you perform? playing to feel dashed to pieces. we will also played schubert, polish composer, and a fun piece at the end of the evening if we are still alive. >> he said if i have to spend another day without composing, conducting, or playing music, is

a complete waste of time. multi-talented musician, that it is -- i'm a mother, i made violinist. --ngs can be full of my >> is the last concerto i have not recalled it. much of the great repertoire i have recorded twice because it is necessary to revise what i've done as a teenager. dvorak come ---- concerto, i haven't played with an orchestra at 30 years. but to open the season at carnegie, it makes it a

wonderful part of my history with the philharmonic orchestra. driving him to his best point. >> he was merciless in trying to change the objective yet. >> anything, you name it. [laughter] >> your member those times fondly? >> very fondly and with great gratefulness. i also member the times when he had to -- when he had acquired his helicopter license -- >> how old was he? >> over 80. flying with him was very frightening. >> did he love to fly? >> he loved to fly. he love to be in charge. his helicopter, his lear jet, you name it. >> an extraordinary person. not only in it musician --

>> not only musician. theas investing in cds in 1980s. >> would you change anything about your pollution as a musician? would you do anything different? >> i have never taken my life that series that i was thinking about that. i am very forward-driven. i am very interested in my foundation and helping young scholars, young street players around the world to succeed. i'm doing a lot of that if it worked. that gives me a purpose -- that -- i am doing a lot of benefit her. that gives me a rfid -- benefit work. that gives me a purpose in my. >> is there a time when you don't want to play on stage? >> yes. i have always thought about it and i'm not in panic about it.

as the way that life goes. >> this is been the center of your life? >> yes. i love what i'm doing and i'm grateful and excited for where i am right now. but -- life happens while you are making plans. >> it does indeed. how is the berlin philharmonic today? >> wonderful. it is a totally different orchestra from the one i started out with. >> how's it different? it is inevitably different because of the ricin that directs it -- of the person that directs it. it is anorchestra, ongoing tradition that nothing is ever really lost. is something that gets passed on to the new generation. sensitivity. they have changed, and large the

repertoire to more contemporary, but they still hold the -- traditional venues. >> i think he once said that mozart is one of the most difficult composers to play. >> there is so little that he is written. it is like haiku. every word has 100 meetings. everyone -- every note is a jewel. if one goes wrong, the entire phrase is gone. it is purity and simplicity, and that is sometimes difficult. >> how difficult is the conductor for you? >> he can be a great --, and sometimes an annoyance, but he is usually a great source of inspiration. different viewpoints. he brings whatever he lives through. it is great. >> you said, i am intrigued by the quest for perfection yet it is useless to think that someone

should come close. great artists are always reaching for and they know that they have not gotten it. >> is the process of reaching for it. you do not want to know that you have not reached it. is a boycott -- it -- a voyage. it is like mountain climbing. once you are at the peak, you see these other mountain ranges and it opens up different musical possibilities. that's why you have the flow, and being one with people in time. that is very addictive. -- carnegiedica hall, where do you go? >> i go back home. i play for the president in germany. >> what we you play? >> did porac -- the dish porac dvorak romance.

>> is good to see you. it has been much too long. ♪

>> welcome to "lunch money," where we tie together the best stories, interviews, and videos in business news. let's take a look at our menu in politics. the senate prepares to vote on the budget passed by the house last week. we are talking about the robots and drone delivery men. and using a face print instead of a fingerprint. and "the hobbit" crushes it at the weekend box office. and an nfl legend talks coaches, injuries, and whether college players actually get paid. the senate will vote on the $1 trillion budget agreement approved by the house last week thop