♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> martin scorsese and leonardo dicaprio are here. their creative collaboration has been among the most fruitful in history.

they first worked on "kings of inthey first worked on "kings of 2002, new york" and they have partnered on "the aviator" and "shutter island." they have just completed their fifth film, it tells the story of the rise and fall of jordan belfour, he made millions through financial scheming into -- until he was brought down and sent to prison. here is the trailer for the new film "the wolf of wall street." >> excuse me. >> yeah? >> is that your car in the lot? the jag. >> yeah. >> how much money do you make? >> $72,000 last month. >> you show me that paystub and i'll quit my job and i will work for you. listen, i quit. yeah, i'm going into stocks. >> my name is jordan belfour. at the tender age of 22 i went to the only place that would fit my high-minded ambitions. >> you move the money from your client's pocket into your pocket. >> if you can make your clients money the same time it is advantageous to everyone. correct? >> no.

>> i started my firm. out of an abandoned auto body shop. >> we will be targeting the wealthiest one percent of americans. >> i love three things. i love my country, i love jesus christ, and i love making people money. hello? >> with this script, i'm going to teach everyone of you to be the best. this is the greatest company in the world. i was becoming a legend. >> are you married? >> yes, but married people can't have friends? >> we are not going to be friends. >> i was making so much money i did not know what to do with it. >> $26,000 for one dinner. >> we are not poor anymore. >> did the sides here cancer? >> the sides did cure cancer. that is the problem. that is why they were expensive. >> the real question is this, is all of this legal? wow.

absolutely not. >> he has pictures of your inner circle. >> this is bad. >> ok. you're all right. >> this, right here is the land , of opportunity. >> you just tried to bribe a federal officer. >> this is america. this is my home! >> good for you, little man. >> the show goes on. >> they are going to need to send in the national guard to take me out because i ain't , going nowhere. >> we don't work for you, man. >> you have my money taped to your boobs. technically you do work for me. >> i am pleased to have martin scorsese and leonardo dicaprio at this table. welcome. >> thank you for having us. >> so you are watching the trailer. tell me what is going through your mind. what you have spent a lot of time putting together. >> what an insane ride this was.

really, truly. >> insane. >> it was insane. i mean, we are taking on material that was very hard to get financed in the first place. i mean, i keep talking about it as a modern-day fall of the roman empire, or like a modern- day caligula. the hedonism was rampant. it was a depiction of, you know, jordan's biography and how honest he was about his addiction to wealth and power and greed during his time on wall street. all of that. absolutely. it was a wild shoot. it really was. >> we only finished the film a couple of weeks ago. exactly. seeing the trailer, i am tired all over again. just looking at it. no, it was, it was something -- you had brought it to me. you brought to the script to me. >> you had to beat out some people. some said that brad pitt was interested. >> that all happens behind closed doors that i don't understand. i went after this book.

quite aggressively, yes. >> there was competition. you want to do because it was a story you wanted to tell because -- >> this is a satire. and it is a dark comedy. but so is "dr. strangelove." or we take a funny approach to this but what we're talking ultimately about is a serious subject and it represents something in our very culture. >> winners and losers in a lot of money. people get hurt and make money and all of that. >> absolutely. >> and people go to jail. >> absolutely. >> i do not think of it as a satire. i thought of it as a straight story. [laughter] >> that is an accurate depiction. the whole life was a satire. >> it is true, but, i think, you know, my feeling is that, not to separate yourself, this is it. i think this is it. , this is the mentality. you know? and we were pushing it, but

believe me, we couldn't -- i mean actually, we just , scratched the surface. the elements were there. the story we could have told, or whatever. what i wanted to do was if we can't tell them all, compress it into such a way that we would throw the audience straight into the maelstrom of this thinking. >> yes. that is part of what happens. you do get caught up. you almost feel like you are inside the room where all of this madness is happening. and some things you might not have seen before. >> a lot of it is truly unbelievable. i read this book and i could not believe that this man led this lifestyle and survived. >> did you talk to him? during the making of the film or in some way? >> incessantly. incessantly. >> tell us who he was. we know his story in the book. but you said one interesting thing, he was truthful. >> yes. to himself. >> that is what i appreciated

most, to him the book was a cautionary tale of his time on wall street. and since that time he is a different person. and he is actually depicted as we depict him in the end of the movie somebody going around talking about the dangers of greed and trying to get into the business sector with some kind of moral foundation. >> the tony robbins of his time. >> exactly. but he was incredibly candid and honest with me about what he went through. and a lot of times we would talk about sections of the book and not only was it that bad, i was 10 times worse. and i'm going to tell you why. and i appreciated that honesty because from marty's perspective, he wanted to have distance but i needed to speak to him constantly just to get the nuances and the detail of what these lifestyle was like. >> what story were you telling? just a so i can nail it down

with you two. >> i found my way into the material. when i first read it, i felt i had visited this before in other ways. and so but i began to realize it , is about, it is about, in a sense, you could say touch upon "goodfellas" or "casino." >> exactly. >> or pictures like that. here, though, there is a veneer of respectability. i was fascinated by the possibility of a person who has that, has the, the talent of persuasion. >> yes. >> and -- >> a superb salesman. >> a superb salesman. he can sell anything. and when that occurs, when he is able to move, moving ahead that way, there is no restraint. >> yes. >> what do we do?

>> no censors. >> no censors. what would we do in a case like that? do we give into our weaknesses? not only just him. the confidence man. >> the kind of moral story. >> yes, that is what i was thinking. i have had my own problems. in my life. so the thing is, in terms of the confidence men. the confidence man takes your confidence. you confide in him. >> yes. >> you give him your trust and he betrays you. he is always charming. it can be in business, in art, in love. >> yes. you have said that the speeches were some of the hardest stuff because that is where you saw the art of salesmanship. >> yes. >> you saw how much he believed, almost. or did, what he was saying. it was almost messianic. and, you know -- >> i had been thinking about -- you know terry winter wrote this , incredible screenplay, catered

for marty and myself. i have been thinking about the speeches almost six years. and, you know mechanically , breaking them down but it was not until i was on that stage where it took on a life of its own. i felt closer to what jordan must have felt during that time where he almost created a cult for himself. >> yes. >> and being consumed by that adoration and the power of being able to provide great amounts of wealth to this mass of people that were worshiping him. and when i got on the stage it kind of took on this incredible life of its own. and i felt like i was bono or a rock star. [laughter] even though i knew these actors were paid to clap every time i was shouting at them, you get this incessant need to push them forward. it always became like this "braveheart" speech except i was persuading them to essentially

screw as many people over as possible. >> do not hang up the phone until you have the sale. >> right, exactly. >> what is the magic between the two of you? as i said this is the fifth , film. do you achieve something with an actor, it is unspoken, you know the potential love him, you know >> i think. i think what is happened is we go picture by picture. i don't know. i think it really clicked on "gangs of new york." we got to know each other, but it really clicked on "aviator." not only the range is there, but range, you can keep asking , and you keep getting. that is what i mean. by the range. and it can go further. and so the main thing for me is that we have similar sensibilities and similar tastes. and interests. >> what does that mean? how does it play itself out?

>> attraction to certain characters. >> yes. >> not this is fairly afraid to take certain risks. >> moral issues, right and wrong. >> moral issues, right and wrong, and in between. [laughter] where the line is. >> crossing the line. >> all of that kind of thing. a man who flies planes and can't touch a doorknob. that is fascinating. >> howard hughes. >> yes and then we get into "the , departed." all of these elements they came into that story, the sense of his own guilt as a character. could not sit still in a place, look over his shoulder. somebody's going to come in behind him and get him for whatever he has done in his life. and, sure enough he is the , informer. that and "shutter island," that was one of the hardest because you can't pin the character down and all because he is many people.

>> yes. >> and you don't even know the stories. they may not exist ultimately by the end of the picture. so, we found -- that was a labyrinth, going through that. but it took a while for me to come around to this one. and again -- >> coming around to -- >> to this story. because what happens is that it is not like we're going to make another film right away. the atmosphere, we have to agree upon the tone. we have to be in the same city, so to speak. in a way. >> and you get that by conversations? about the movie you want to make. >> conversations. the problem with a film like this is that you can't, there is no sense, especially at my age, going into the situation with a group of people who are going to, let's say, you know a studio , where they're going to say there is too much drug taking or too much sex. i can't -- at this point, it is

no sense in me making the film because i would just be constantly distracted by the levels of restrictions. >> yes. you do not want any part of that. >> i can't do it. you simply cannot. you get to the phone, you get to the door. it is not like you are being -- there is no sense in it because there is only so many breaths you can take. []laughs] >> that's exactly right. so why do it. >> they made it possible for us to make the movie >> that could -- make the movie. >> to write on a large canvas. >> it goes right through the mpaa and everything else. we towed the line, and this is the film we were able to make and we feel comfortable with it. but it is very hard because you have to deliver certain things

in the marketplace. hollywood. there are certain blockbuster pictures. i do not believe i am made for that. you know? they need a certain kind of product, which is theirs. which is fine. >> thank god for martin. >> i can't do it. i would try. >> within that context, somebody will say, most movies are about an hour and a half and here you have a three-hour movie. do you simply say this is what i need to tell the story, that i was born to tell, with the -- this story? not a minute less. not a minute more. >> no. i tried to cut it as much as possible. when the dust settled, this is where we were. thelma and i. >> tell them who thelma is. >> thelma she has in my editor , since "raging bull." since 1980. both of us we move the editing , equipment into my house and just worked day and night. we worked day and night for a

year. on the picture. i really try to get it as tight as possible. and then to take the risk of creating this whirlwind of a picture. and then scenes that would take long dialogue scenes. , you would think it would stop the flow but because of what they are discussing, for example, oh, you know, they have an event at the beginning of the film where they pick up little people and toss them against targets. >> yes. [chuckles] >> in order to do that in an office, you must have a meeting. you know, you're sitting in a meeting, you are discussing it. what about safety? what about this? imagine what could come out of those meetings. so put yourself in that mindset. and play it long enough to make sure actually start thinking about the reality. >> in this case he is also the

, narrator. >> yes. >> was that by choice? >> i think that was -- >> that was in the script. >> and did you give him a lot of room for improvisation? you always do that with him because you know what he can do. >> yes, but i think in the case of "shutter island" it was different. and certainly in "aviator." but here, yes. >> i'm thinking about the scene where you go to the car. i mean, you crawling around. not knowing where the hell you are. >> no, i mean that was what was , interesting about this film, i think, more than other films we have done. a lot of films have been, not beholden to a specific plot structure but certain things needed to happen to result in a specific ending. and this was a lot more free form. it was kind of like organized chaos. we knew we were taking on -- were not taking on classic american literature. ultimately the character became , the plot.

and i think more so than any of the other films we have done, there was a lot to discover in this movie. >> yes, yes. >> there was a lot to discover about the nature of what we were trying to do. and it really did not come alive until we were on set. >> you saw the possibilities of doing more. once you are there. >> it was just about everyone taking on this hedonistic attitude. and giving into every temptation possible. and every actor had that air -- sort of had that air about them on set. and so it allowed for all of , these insane possibilities every day. everyone would push the envelope. >> [laughs] >> what was interesting, and i think in this process -- >> the most fun you have been on? >> it was hard to get there. in the morning i knew i did not , know what was going to happen. >> the truth is we improvised a lot of this before hand.

but when we got on set, working with the other actors, it spiraled into a multitude of directions. it was very freeing. >> yes, it really was, and there are certain things that happened, he crawls across the floor, over the ground to get to his car, and open the door, the door opens up. i did not realize that. yes, i did not realize that. they told me last week, i forgot. now what do we do? it was up to him. >> use your feet. >> i did not know how i was going to get the door open until i got there. >> it looks like jacques tati or jerry lewis. what is the magic between the two of you? when you can work with anybody and you come back to a man you have worked with four times before this. >> well, look. i went into this venture and aggressively trying to find something to work with marty on with "gangs of new york" and

i've found that screenplay. you know ever since i got my , first film, it was my father really who pointed out this great cinematic relationship with de niro and martin scorsese. he started showing me these films. when you feel that impact at a very early age, it makes quite an impression on you. and so, you know once i got the , opportunity, in essence to , finance pictures with my name, he was the first guy i aggressively went after to collaborate on something with. and since then, the man knows more about cinema as an art form than anybody i have ever met in my life. >> yes. >> and so every movie has been this, this incredible education for me. really and i have learned a lot , more about, you know, what it is to be an actor. and almost these mantras. it is not this conscious thing that he does with me.

he is not sitting me down and saying, look, kid this is how , you do it. for both of us it is a discovery process and it is a constant conversation. >> a constant collaboration. >> absolutely and in this film, , i keep saying this over and over, but you know, i keep saying this but he said one to me, look, we were skeptical of the likability of guys had had destroyed the american economy, or at least that mentality with these characters. and he said as long as you portray people as authentic as you can and you do not try to sugarcoat their intentions, and you give an accurate portrayal of their nature, audiences will go along with you. on that. and that kind of clicked with me and i kind of realized, that is the way every film should be done. you know? >> did you have to -- go ahead.

>> i was just going to say, i was hoping one of the reasons i resisted, i did not want to make any apologies for the way they behaved in a sense, or to even create a kind of -- i do not know. >> capture the authenticity. >> yes, capture the on this and he -- capture the authenticity, but to put you in the mindset to see, maybe more out of frustration at the situation and the way things are now than anything else. just go ahead and behave that way. >> you never had a moment where you have to make him likable. >> not at all. >> in fact we resisted that as , much as we could. >> there was a lot of pressure for us to do certain things. i said it will be imposing it on there. he is likable in the sense a confidence man is likable. >> yes. this is when jordan meets a sexy woman, named naomi.

>> this is my friend naomi. >> nice to meet you. >> nice to meet you. >> you have an awesome place. i have never been in a house this big before. >> oh, really? >> there is a beautiful beach on there. >> nice to meet you. your name is blair? do you like to jet ski? >> i have never done it before. >> you have never been on a jet ski. >> how many times are you going to ask her? >> i don't know. i might ask her a couple more times. [laughter] >> you should see what happens right after that. >> i'm glad you stopped. >> you give me more film i will , show more of it. [laughter] >> that was one of the hardest scenes to cut. we were cutting that to the last minute. something about the looks or the glances, how many times about the jet skis. all of that. if you do too much the edge you had with blair would have been lost. when to cut to his wife. >> this is the stuff about filmmaking people do not think

about. it did not just happen that way. >> i know. >> it happened because there was a director and an actor who knew the possibilities. >> a lot -- marty is obviously brilliant on set but the process he has with thelma is miraculous. they are old school, you know? they sit there and it is one-on- one and they cut the film frame by frame. it is like a sculpture for them. they don't -- they are not rushed in the process. it is this constant dialogue between the two of them, they have been collaborating for such a long. keeper of time. that is where so much of, it is a cliché, so much of the magic happens. in filmmaking. >> you have said that. where you are the happiest. >> yes. we have the best time, thelma and i, in that way. >> you know you have a lot of great performances and you can decide how you bring them in. the music. how the music plays. >> exactly. the thing is of course, even if we are in trouble, we know the trouble is there.

we have it. there are ways to go. there are people to call and we will work out things and work it out together without a thousand people around us and the clock is ticking. >> can you take a good performance and turn it into a great one in the editing room? >> i think you can. i think you can. i think it is in the eyes. >> they did it with me. [laughter] >> margaux is fantastic. she plays naomi, everybody in the picture came up to a certain level. >> and jonah hill. >> and jonah hill. >> the great jonah hill. >> the great jonah hill. >> a great person and -- i mean, he was really, in a lot of ways essential to the temple of the movie. he came in with the right right attitude. right off the bat, he came in and he said i know who these people are. i have seen this world.

i have seen people consumed by wealth and greed. and i can depict this character better than anyone. so i immediately told marty. they had this incredible meeting and right away he was hired. ,>> he wanted to audition. he read a scene. >> he wanted to audition. >> yes. he is very good. >> and an incredible improvisational actor. >> you say he is maybe part of the best you have seen. >> probably the best i have seen. it is amazing when you can have a certain thought process of what you think a scene is going to be and somebody cares everything apart in front of you -- cares everything apart -- tears everything apart in front of you, and you have to go with it. you have to react to it in real time and become something different. that was the kind of, that was the freedom of the attitude we had while making this movie. >> he would stimulate you to do things. things you had not even imagined. >> absolutely. >> a couple of times you end pj

and a number of the guys had to stop him. [laughter] he would stop. i said why aren't you talking? >> they told me to be quiet. >> this is is when his character tells jordan he wants to work for him. here it is. >> is that your car? on the lot? >> yes. >> the jag. >> yes. >> you make a lot of money? >> yes i do alright for myself. , >> i'm just trying to put it together. nice car. i'm trying to understand. how much money do you make? >> i don't know. $70,000 last month. i'm serious. >> yes, no i'm serious. , seriously, how much money. >> i told you. 70,000. technically $72,000. last month. >> you make 72 grand in one month? >> yeah. [knock on door]

>> i tell you what, you show me a pay stub with $72,000 on it, i quit my job and i work for you. hey, paulie, what's up? everything is fine. noeverything is fine. , listen, i quit. >> show that to me. >> the timing issue. literally when you hear "hey, , paulie," we went back and forth on that one. that is the problem. and when to jump it. in other words to try to break , the form, the impression the picture is in a conventional form in terms of editing but then to push and break the continuity. and not to -- i don't mean continuity in terms of just mismatches, i mean massive mismatches. they do not matter. because the rhythm of the story should go with the way they are thinking. and so the images should go the

, same way. we just kept cutting. ripping things apart. really, so a lot of it does not match at all. >> for an actor, as we are watching, you had a lot of different kind of things to work with. >> yes. films with him, i think this is a huge menu. >> yes, like i said there was an incredible freedom in the process. once you set up characters whose one and only concern is their own indulgence, the script was set up that way. it is almost like this drug infused ride we go one way or people are incredibly motivated by greed and we do not really see the wake of their destruction. we did not cut away to the ramifications of their actions for the people on the other end of the line to see how they were affecting the guy that just lost his mortgage.

it was this hypnotic voyage forward, consuming everything within your path. when you set up that kind of attitude on set, it is every actor's dream. you have no moral compass and nobody to answer to. it freed all of us. >> there is also the moment where he is wearing a wire. that is sort of who he is. incriminate yourself. >> i think jordan, at that time, was morally twisted, obviously. that was one of the key moments in the script between this characters where he can't quite, he can't rat on his friend. he has to let him know what he is doing. the landscape of where they are at is so corrupt that it envelops him and all of the characters.

it is an interesting moment in the movie. >> and who was it that played his wife? >> margot robbie. an australian actress. she came in. we auditioned a lot of girls. it is amazing. >> and she was really good. >> something about australian actors. they work three times harder than everybody else. [laughter] they are this isolated island. they know about american movies. they work their ass off. >> she knocked it out. >> did you give them direction? >> she did not need much. we could see it in the audition. she was able to handle him just by a look. that's it. that was it. and especially, especially we did the scene where she wakes

him up. rudely with a glass of water. she stood up to him, no matter what he said or did. >> i thought that was interesting. the way she stood up to you. she was not a pushover. >> not at all. >> and that was necessary. >> absolutely. also for him to deny, as much as possible. you could forget things like that were going on. it slips your mind. >> dominatrix. candles. >> i saw that part. did he like that? that is my first thought. >> oh, yeah. he liked all of it. he liked all of it. >> he did not remember for a while. >> my attitude, which is why it was not embarrassing, i played it like he was a roman emperor. he was indulging in every possible thing he could.

short of maidens feeding us grapes, there is everything. >> what do you have to do to make sure you do not have ratings problems? >> i was able to, i spent a long time with the ratings board but here they really asked us to tone down what we could, the accumulation of the sexual images. >> the total of it. >> so in certain areas, we went in, by the way, in our rough cuts, and screening it for our friends, very often your cutting the picture the first cut was four hours five minutes. where is it too much? that came up a lot. it was not just the mpaa, it was a lot of my friends and people i trust the saying, we get it. maybe move on.

and then i would say we can't give up that shot. try this one. i want to go with that one. >> what was the hardest to give up? >> i think we are ok. i don't feel bad about any of it. i think the plane. we trim done that. but that was enough. it was fine. i did not have a shot for it anyway. instead, i took the shot and made it in the hotel room afterwards, which was an overhead tracking shot of the debris. that is where the shot is. in the plane, it is showing what they are doing. i had no problem. >> in other words, this is the directors cut. [laughter] >> glimpses. >> we are seeing the director's cut. and thank god for that. >> when you are going through all of this and making this movie, what was the hardest thing for you?

>> the hardest part was just the preproduction process, in a lot of ways. constantly reaffirming to ourselves the type of movie we wanted to do. we wanted to take a lot of chances and really questioning, you know, how an audience would react to all of this stuff. we had to reaffirm that within one another. a lot of sequences the character could have gone another direction. we said to ourselves, look, you know, there was one in particular where it starts to get very dark toward the end of the movie. and jordan does some horrific things to his wife. i remember somebody bringing up the subject of whether the audience would still be with our lead at that point and whether we would betray the audience. marty and i looked at each other and said we are going to portray

this guy the way he depicted himself. >> authenticity would make you more appealing. >> more truthful to what we were doing. we just did not, we had to be more truthful to what we felt. also, maybe how you feel about yourself, your own self in situations like that. or in points in your life of crisis and how you behaved in the past. >> sitting here talking to you, i get the impression you guys think, you made the movie you wanted to make. >> definitely. >> and that is very rare. it is incredibly rare to truly get to make the movie, especially on this scale. when you're making an american epic about greed and indulgence, and hedonism, you really have to cater to a studio in a lot of

ways. you have to cater to the audience and we had financiers that said not only do we want you to put this material on screen, we want you to push the envelope. be free artistically to go to places you never imagine. that was one of the motivators with me. to try to get him to do this. i knew there were not that many directors that would really take the time to explore that within the characters. i keep referencing this one line in "goodfellas," but that is out of the experimentation with the actors, even if it is not intricate to the structure of the plot. you are capturing something about the essence of who they are, which shapes the course of what the movie is. he is interested in character studies. he is interested in what the actors do to capture the essence of these people. >> what is the line? >> what, am i here to amuse you?

he said that was not in the script. the guys started talking. to me, that signifies everything the movie is about. they are at a table, they are friends but there is a danger that if you cross a line with me, you can be wiped out. >> the lifestyle. in one second it could change. that is a joe pesci thing. it happened to him. something he experienced in his life. >> you cross me. >> all of a sudden, he changed. and when it change, you had to think fast. >> "goodfellas" is one of your favorite films. >> for sure. the one that really moves me the most was "taxi driver." i remember watching it and 15 years old and being transfixed with travis bickle because i was locked into this character and i

felt such incredible empathy. i understood him. i understood his loneliness and then he deceived me. i said, who is the guy i am watching? who is this person? i was identifying with him and i was with him on this journey and all of a sudden this is not the person i thought he was. to me, it is just really the greatest independent film ever made. >> it is paul schrader's script. paul went through a lot on that one. de palma gave me the script. brian de palma. he said you have to read this thing. >> you were going around hollywood with it. >> everybody said get away from me. i had not made "mean streets" yet. >> no one is going to make that picture. [laughter]

>> did robert de niro suggest you take a look at him? >> before that. it was "this boy's life." i had not seen "gilbert grape." it was on television but i thought it was a documentary because the acting was so -- i did not recognize anyone. and then i sat and watched the entire picture and was amazed. >> are you able to make the movies you want to make? are you at this place? it is hard to find the ones, i assume. or maybe there are a lot of them. >> i am trying. i have a production company but it was set up to find material outside of the studio system, stuff outside of the box that

could be shaped from the very beginning and catered to be something i wanted to do and as an actor. a lot of times it can be a great premise but it can turn into something different. so, i, even in my career, i think the films like "the aviator" or "blood diamond" are almost impossible to get financed. we always talked about the age of the director, the age of the blockbuster, i have seen it the last 10 years, the business changes. thank god for outside sources of people that have run into wealth that are fans of movies and say i think there is a marketplace for something else. there is a marketplace for an epic of this nature that does not check all of the boxes of explosions, fighting robots or whatever. you can make a movie like this.

we are going to take a risk and thank god there are people that fill that gap because a lot of the films we are seeing now are different, are coming from outside sources. >> which raises the question, television. take "house of cards," "breaking bad." >> that is how we met the writer and came up with "boardwalk empire." what we have wanted to do, it was going that way, pictures were getting longer. "1900" was five and a half hours. the idea of exploring a character and story and atmosphere, almost like a novel in a way, that can go on. "soprano's" went on for 60 hours.

this may be the place for the development of the new cinema. the old cinema was what it was. that's it. so we move on. we take advantage of what is new. the new technology and the new marketplace. if it makes films like, bigger blockbusters, some of them are good. there is a place for that. it is important there are other kinds of cinema. we have to fight for this space to make those pictures, whether it is the coen brothers, alexander payne. wes anderson. paul thomas. coen brothers. alexander payne. they should be supported. in the 1970's, they were supported. i do not feel it is that way now. i may be speaking out of turn for them.

i do feel there is a struggle for even the most moderate budget picture to be made. and if you don't get it made and people do not see it, there is always that problem of distribution. there are pictures you do not see any they go straight to video. of course now, ultimately, pictures will be shown through satellite. all kinds of platforms. which is great but it is this period, george lucas was talking about it, and 10 years is going to be the dark zone. we do not know where things will land in terms of how they will be presented. >> at the same time, thinking about the technology, you are in love with film. >> yes. yes. >> he did this movie on film. >> nothing for dailies or anything? >> i did shoot digital at night. we can't light the streets anymore.

it takes too much time. the cameras are good. >> so you combined film and digital. to sit here, his enthusiasm is so great. >> absolutely. >> after all of the films and achievements, it is like you are talking to someone who is 21 years old. and has all of these skills and all of this love of the craft in making films. >> absolutely. it gives you an appreciation for film as an art form. and sometimes that is undermined. to me, it is the great modern art form, but i keep thinking of the stories he tells as a young man watching movies over and over with his father and the impression he must have had of what has been achieved in cinema's history.

i share that. i share an appreciation for what has been done before me. it is almost like this, this, it's reaching for the clouds. you're trying to constantly achieve something within your lifetime. you have to keep questioning yourself, did i do that? i do not think it is a thirst that is ever truly quenched. you keep pushing yourself forward and wanting to achieve something as great as came before you. >> you stand on the shoulders of giants. and you have a responsibility to carry the tradition. >> that is one of the things with our relationship, he will bring to me, you know, this incredible film by this guy. oh, yes. "solaris." ok. do you remember the scene with the cards at night. yes. his father would show him this stuff.

for example, on this film he turned me on to the mills brothers. i had to explain i knew about them. [laughter] i'm saying, yes, of course. >> you used to show actors, have them watch a lot of films as part of your friendship and of what you wanted to infuse with each of them. >> on this one i do not think we did much. >> they have seen most of them. >> we did not need them. "the sweet smell of success," sidney falco. >> did you see it before this? at his suggestion? >> i had seen it before. i think this film was different in its approach.

films like "the aviator," we watched film after film, sometimes just to get the specific tone of a sequence. but this film was a little bit different and more radical. it was this discovery process to see what would happen, if we put ourselves in that environment and gave the actors the freedom to do what they wanted. it was very experimental in that way. and spontaneous. like the matthew mcconnaughy, i mean, i remember the day. it is almost like his character is bringing me into dante's "inferno," the depths of hell. matthew said, i have an idea for the scene and he came up with this monologue that was so

outrageous, marty immediately said yes. and the chest thumping he did that became the mantra of greed. >> you said he is doing something. in between takes. i think it is a vocal exercise. listen to it. you think he should do it? i said, why not. he went with it. hesitant bird calls. >> then he continued. he made it almost like this rap of wall street. and then we took that theme, we were doing my final speech to the troops, and that became the mantra of greed. you know what i mean? it became this -- like i said, that is what it was like on set. it was a very free atmosphere. >> it is great to see people who have such enthusiasm and as you

said, there were no restraints in terms of, let's give it the best we can possibly give and see how it looks at the other end. >> and we made it on schedule. that is good. tripping all the time and falling. trying to catch up. >> is this the best time of your life? >> i feel very fortunate, yes. it is amazing to think of, you know, the type of actor or the type of career i wanted to have at 15 and to still be sitting here getting to do the type of work i want to do, i do not think i could have imagined it, to tell you the truth. i feel fortunate and lucky to be in this position. and i never forget that. i never forget not everyone can do what they love.

i am getting to do that. yeah. >> and you? >> me. a great time. an amazing time. >> but to love it with the same intensity you had. >> i do. it is physical at this point, getting to be set again. that sort of thing. i am up for it. you look at something and you say i think i could do this with a certain amount of time and the energy is what comes from him and everybody on the set. rodrigo. >> actors, including a guy who won the academy award from france. >> he was very funny. improvising in english. >> so many moments. thank you for sharing the table with me. always great to see you. ♪ >> the following is a paid

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