>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> monuments men. together and find

what is missing. >> aren't you too old for that? war zoneto go into a and tell our boys what they can and cannot blow up? >> that is the idea. >> george clooney and grant heslov are here. that brought us "good night and good luck" and "argo." their new project is a world war ii story we have never seen before. it follows a group of man tasked with rescuing art. they wrote the film. here is the trailer. when -- we must and while we must and win this war, if society is destroyed. joke to beangelo

made. you are just the man to make it. what's with the tasked to detect art the nazis have stolen. the sculptor and director of design. and a few other experts. >> how are the fellows making out? a war want to go into zone and tell our boys what they can and cannot blow up? but that is the idea. >> if you would read the order. >> do not interrupt me. >> idea went very well. it will have some idea of where the french army is. >> how can i help with stolen art? >> we have to get as close to the front as we can. >> look at this. it says if hitler dies, germany will fall. everything. ♪

cares butll us who they are wrong. it is the exact reason we are fighting. >> your responsibility now. >> give me your hand. >> i am proud of what we are doing. >> all hell is breaking loose here. >> we have unfinished business. >> i am pleased to have george clooney and grant heslov at the table. you are responsible for this. you found in the book.

>> i found the book. >> what did you do? i i was in the late and forgot my book. i saw the cover and is struck me. i started reading on the plane. i thought, this could be interested. i put it away. >> were sitting around. we were sitting around. what we going to do next? here is the thing. if you look at the films we have made, i am very proud. there are really several cold. the least cynical people i know. -- they are really cynical. we should let happier movie. and grant was, i read this book. at first the ball, the story was amazing. all, the story was amazing. we read the book.

we had interest in making the film. >> we like the idea -- >> not many people can do that. warfelidea of making a -- a warfel, we grew up on these. film, we grew up on these. where we could make room for the film and do the packet with the stars like the old movies. i get the kind of score you can whistle. >> a great story. >> that's what happens. >> we brought all of the sony executives to my house. andut this out in a cabana we acted out the entire script for them. we had so wide and they said you have the green light.

>> you have to get the k. >> you hadun the script and data to cast the film. how did you go through the process of deciding? wrote touth is what we the script, world just about everybody. as au saw them in mind particular character. >> we have cards. write on pieces of paper. as we were working on the characters, we said this is bill murray and this will be great for him. he would be great opposite because of the difference. >> and they are graded to death. john goodman. -- >> and they were great to get. john goodman. such a good guy. i wanted him in it. [laughter]

>> the only one we have not figured out was the bob character. we knew bob. we were sitting there. grant goes, of course. we are idiots. everybody else we had written the part. >> was the challenge of a world war ii movie? of challenges. first of all, the scope of it. a mother the things you end up doing -- [no audio] it was about the unbelievable -- it was about being unbelievably prepared. piece. it is a period the biggest challenge was in the weather. , we need a shorting

little bit of snow. there were flamethrowers. they were melting. andhe focus for the story finding your timeline and your structure. >> and that was our biggest challenge. how did you do that? we sort of decided there were a couple pieces of art that will sort of the most important pieces. we would tie them. tricky thing to do a film about art. you had to take a couple of important pieces. directly to our characters. >> and a race against time. >> they suffered so much in the war.

lost 25 million people and they believe to the victor goes the spoils. >> we had to back that into what was really happening. agreedurgent things we you cannot change. you cannot change the battle of the bulge or d-day. >> those things we had to get right and accurate. >> what was the great burt lancaster movie about? >> it is a much more isolated event because of a train leaving. hows interesting because they really stopped the train was paperwork. that is not nearly as interesting a film. it was also fun because it was black and white when they were making color films. worked lancaster comic to a physical film after 10 years. it is a wonderful film. >> your character?

is he the guy who is actually responsible for the idea that we have to do something? >> he was the leader. it was his idea. did talk to fdr. fdr and i can hire or were concerned because we went through this time -- eisenhower were concerned because we were super this time. was done to prosecute and win some of the battles. building that we -- yes, yes. it was destroyed. and so what happened was suddenly you begin to understand this war is going to be over soon and we cannot have the allied forces cannot have destroyed all of these monuments in prosecuting the war. because the great problems. our soldiers were getting killed by german soldiers who were hiding.

that would not go and they did not bomb. it became a big concern of eisenhower's and roosevelt's that we make sure that we protect what is left. try not to bomb. which buildings are the most important. >> how large an effort to was this in terms of history? what is seven people -- >> a couple hundred over a period of time. , nobody was aans soldier who came to this group? >> a no. >> this book focuses on the seven characters. there were many more. a whole group that went to italy alone. if you look at what happened in florence where they blew everything, every bridge out of the water. they do not plan on burning

paris. to some people, there is a couple of a bloggers who've also raise a question about why there to the more done holocaust and save people there at that idea of what could've been done and should have been done. sometimes people make comparisons. >> there were so many complicated things. the question that we get a lot is -- the answer is sort of complicated because you could make the argument that if you got your family out of the house and has a great piece of art sentiment risking certain death, you might let it burn. that's not what the movie is about or what to men are about. what today are charged to say is heller and his group had to does

-- is hitler and his group had decided they would not only going to kill everybody to systematically take all of their history with them. if they do not like it, they would destroy it. and it was not enough he had to kill everybody, you try to make as if they do not exist. and that is worth fighting for. >> of the legacy of civilization. it is an advancement. you can wipe that out. the interesting thing about this film is one more way we come to appreciate in this dialogue what art means to a culture and civilization. and how vital it is with the contribution of art is to the way we are and to lose that. >> if you think about it -- >> and that's why the mission was taken. al there is no other historic wrecker.

there are statues and paintings. it was not digital tape. it is our record. you cannot take it away. >> tell me about the relationship between bill's character and bob's character. what does that relationship? >> that was a fun one. >> i see you two guys sitting in a room and wondered how you are going to write it just like this. >> just like this. >> and you write it together? >> rewrite it together. we sit down all day and write. this was a little different. normally, we do not have a lot of research to do. this was, we did a lot of research. it was covered. it was covered in photos and maps. say when it didn't actually happen. we had a timeline.

>> it was complicated. the fun part was bill and bob were such odd physically together. we knew somebody who would've bugged the hell out of bob. [laughter] know, he is great at being the -- the two of them together, they love each other. they are great for us. it was so much fun to see bill. wanted divided themselves unable to accept your gracious offer for smart -- offer? >> we got exactly who we wanted. that was a beautiful part. >> except for me. [laughter] he was not available. >> he took the job. >> would you talk to kate, what did you say to her?

you went all the way to australia to make your case. not an e-mail? >> i told her i am working on a screenplay that i think you would be wonderful in. and she said let me know. when we finished, i got on a plane and i flew to australia for a night. i went to see her in a play. after the play, we went and had dinner. >> probably directed by her husband? >> i think so. we went out and i gave her the screenplay and said i hope you like it. and she said i was in. as a pretty great thing. >> the other great thing is not work for the normal salary. george does not pay top dollar. >> hopefully, the movie has to make money. how granted i have been doing this for a long time. for notst for films much more the scale. we keep the price way down.

we are making films that are challenging to get it made. it was hard to get "michael clayton" made. you have to keep the budget away down. it is really tough. if you're going to do it, you have to go to these people say i am not taking any money and will give you some. if the movie makes money, we all share the profits. if not -- you have a good time. how did you first get together? >> we met in acting class. >> he was an incredibly successful actor. he started a lot of movies. something along the way, he decided it was not necessarily where i want my career to go. >> you said he went to a waiting room for a nice addition -- audition. which is a place

ever after spent a lot of time auditioning. i was a kid. sitting acrossis from you were seven actors. guys i've had seen all my life growing up. all of these different shows. myself, when i am that age, i do not want to be auditioning for three lines. as the two of you began -- you were doing in addition a you do thisy, let's together. >> brighton beach. it is my first page up ever. abc at the time was doing a star search. it was old contract players. it's paid 20 grand a year to be under contract. i was doing construction work and riding a bicycle to auditions. grant and i were an acting class doing a scene. that's up tobug beds onto theunk

stage and i ran into a guy. he was like, george crosby -- [laughter] we are doing a thing. if you want to come over to the 2020 building at abc and audition, three minutes, no props. maybe we will give you a go. i said, ok. granted i were doing the same. it was very successful in class. the worst thing is i will never work with abc. i had never worked with them before. friends of ours, a big office building, a classy joint. we brought to the bunk beds to the office. when they called my name, i said let's go. we snapped together bunk beds and they said, you cannot. we did the scene. we knew it was good. he brought all of the others and

they came in and left. i got home, i got a call. they call your agent. they said, they want to sign you to contract and that was it. [laughter] burken you were with sadr h, it was not that i do not want to be an actor but i enjoyed this other part to suck the creative parts. >> i made a short film. short film, i the knew that was what i loved. you are are an actor, just thinking about your role. when you get to the other side, you realize there's a huge story to tell. >> you know to bill murray said about you? [laughter] he said many things. he basically said, you come

prepared. he said he showed up as a director ready. well, i am a big fan of being prepared from everything. it is hard to catch me surprised. i try to be prepared. before did the show tonight, i tried to be per pair. >> it is no question i can ask that you have not -- >> i like spontaneity, too. iphoto like being prepared is a big deal. the directors i've worked with , they ared the most so per pair. what emily was wrong for it -- what it leaves room for is i know where it is. we only shoot what we need. our days are short. we have five or six hour days sometimes.

>> a lot to direct his are prepared for do not necessarily make a great film. it is that george has a point of view and he knows -- >> you talk about a point of view. a story you want to tell at the ankle. >> you want people to see the movie from the angle you decide. nicholson and art and they do all of the dialogue. the camera never goes off. [laughter] >> how do you grow as a director? >> by making lots of mistakes. you grow by going -- you will be done and say, i do not want to do that again. certainly by doing things, i have done that night and i what to do it again. not always bad. you have done it. anybody who thinks you have this

figured out, you do not. you can look at any director. learne you do not necessarily by successes. successes are really easy. as an actor when you get great reviews, i have this down. when they tear into you and you learn, what to believe and not to believe. you learn -- and i still struggle with those kind of things. >> and then it opens in february. why? >> we were not ready. >> other things to make a better movie? >> we started shooting this movie less than a year ago. usually films are 1.5 years. tom the beginning to shoot putting out. we were rushing. the reality is it was not ready. in the middle of october we were at abbey road. we looked at each other, we went

to the hotel room and sat down, i said we are not going to make it. very badsually a very, thing to say to a studio. >> and they will fear -- >> that is more about us. they do not care. they're not worried. they wanted to be a commercial film. that was not the issue. the issue is they have a slot. when you have the slot, you push other moves aside a you are ready. >> this was a christmas movie? >> it was going to be. ended up doinge" good. , look, it's a bloodbath in december. there are a ton of films coming out. >> a huge amount of attention. >> would cannot be happier. looking back as a director,

would you do something different about the way you made this film? isn't there a mistake or simply something you did not realize was an option at the time? >> probably too soon to reflect. grant and i both made the movie we set out to make. we are thrilled with it. underway?change >> no, the script did not change. there are a couple of things. we tend to overwrite. there are certain things we decided that we decided we would never use in the movie. let's not shoot it. and you know things change. mostly, about the tone of the film. >> talk about tone. here you wanted to make this movie running

against time and that is important. there is something at the end that is worth going for. all of that, is that tom -- is that tone? not too much of a war movie? >> not too much of a war movie because we do not want to do "saving private ryan." that is not what this movie started out to be. we wanted to tell these guys's stories. we figure in a way to make a successful. >> my favorite scene is what you are talking to the german colonel who is a prisoner. repeated the line for me. just once. point i am going to be at a deli on the upper west side. >> he will not tell me anything.

he is a racist and anti-semitic. >> what i do know is he is responsible for killing my best friend. we have captured him. i try to get them to tell us about the art in the tunnel. him, i that i said to heard before you did this you ran into the camps. he said you are not jewish. and he said you should thank me. at that offered him a cigarette. i said i do not smoke either. i tell the whole story about how i have an up armored the west side and i go to this place and i get a nice bagel and a cup of coffee and read the newspaper. and as the first thing i would do when i get stateside. and i will be sitting there reading the paper and looking at page 18 of the new york times and this tiny little blurb and

will say that you were hanged for your crimes a you were buried in an unmarked grave. >> nobody will ever know. ever again. >> i will remember my first cigarette. >> let's take a look at some clips. we will look and see what we've been talking about. here it is. >> monuments is about to go live. >> i hope we play music. >> colleague london. >> we read you loud and clear. >> will find out tomorrow. roger that. >> are all the fellows there? >> they are. >> listen up. i think you should know the truth. this mission is never designed to succeed. they are wrong if they tell us that.

they tell us with this made people dying, who cares? they are wrong. that is exactly what we are fighting for. a culture, a way of life. you can wipe out a generation of people and you can burn their homes to the ground. some will come back. if you destroy their achievements, and the history, it is like they never existed. floating. ash >> that is what hitler wants. is the one thing we cannot allow. moment. hitler plant and use them in austria? >> in austria. er it was called the fuhr museum. >> in the bunker, he would go in

and look at it. in his suicide note, he would say even though i die, i hope you will finish the museum. >> he was a failed painter as we know. thinks interesting -- i it was the architect was going to decide it for him. he was captured. albert spear. there is a character in the movie who is notorious for who he was. supposedly like some kind of art. >> a terrible taste. he like to visit it, heavy -- he like to visit big, heavy. hitler planned this for so long there he began the war in late 1930's. he had professors coming to paris saying we would love to see your collection of art. it will go in the back rooms. they knew where all of the arts

was. gary in particular would come and 20 times. he would come in a go this goes to this hall and this would go to to hitler. --robert apps and came in epson came and with the nazi book. all of these paintings. >> they had them in the bunker. he never got to put his hands on those paintings. he never got to touch them. he had a nice photo. >> what was the decree when he ordered everything -- >> basically, he ordered every to be destroyed. of all, he did not want the allies to have any other things so he dissent destroyed the bridges and tanks.

>> he said they should happen? >> it was not called this until after. .e was burning the reality was the very what he got to the mine. that guy specifically took hitler's letter to maynard burn all of the art. , who had been working there for a thousand years, got some bombs and blow up the openings so the germans cannot go in. >> what was about put it into the minds -- mines? >> we were bombing so they wanted to save it. they found salt mines -- >> to preserve and it is a deteriorate? >> yes. they took better care of arts.

here's another scene. whether talking about bill murray and bob. schedule we have been talking about bill murray and bob. -- we have been talking about bill murray and bob. a great piece. >> that are looking for artifacts. unhonorable think at the time of war. >> we think they took out through france and are hiding it. i told him you may be able to help. well, i was a soldier like you. i can help you in any way. >> do you know a collector named -- >> one of the greatest art collections in the world? >> he is french? >> no, jewish. >> no, i do not know how. does your wife speak english?

>> no. the back of this says rothschild's. >> it was a gift. other one, too? [laughter] >> from hitler.

>> are you proud of that scene? , theu were looking at it way it was shot. anytime you do a scene with that many people, it is hard. what is.t it is an interesting story. that character in the beginning, it is a true story. -- he was veryth dangerous and a terrible man. he did facilitate. back into germany. one of the guys, when the monuments men broke a tooth and willie dentist the dentist said, my nephew knows about arts. >> that is how they found? >> that they literally found the art.

that is a true story. >> i really had to go back and think about the first guy. his there at in a very different setting. ♪

>> you love direct inc. --

redirecting? >> yes. i think it is the most creative thing i have been able to do. greg has directed films as well. if you are acting or doing one thing, you are part of a process. like the paint. when you are direct in, you are the painter. you get to play with all of the toys and the design and camera. >> do you do it because you love it or different skills to use and colors to paint with? or because at some point you know that the actors who find the roles you must -- you most want -- a kind of security? >> it is that. i could make an argument that there's only a certain amount of time you're allowed to be on camera. you want to be creative.

i love the industry. is an amazing job that we have. i think grant and i feel the same way. we want to be able to participate in this on a much different level than being actors. of"argo" brings a lot success. you be willing to do it and not knowing. this guy can direct. you said, being go. -- bingo. >> we were thrilled when he wanted to do it. >> it feels great. found the article. we hired the writer. we were to the screenplay for years. believe me, nobody wanted to make that movie. we cannot get anybody. >> did they say we will make if

you are in it, george? >> were doing the march at the time comes working on something else. ben got a hold of the screenplay asked could i do it? i said, absolutely. >> we got of the phone. make it.i know how to here is how i want to make it. it was a little different than how we originally saw it. it was great. >> how important, somebody once said, casting is 85%. as long as you have a big -- a good script. >> you cannot make a good film out of a bad script. >> and you cannot cast. that is true. >> you did a good script and you need to be lucky enough to have the right actors. they do not have the greatest actors. the actors right for the part.

that is important. that is the key. people more right for the part. >> you were betting -- >> we got everybody wanted. we could not be happier. >> it is amazing. what is that? they respect you for the movies you have made? you have made that you put together a group of people who have fun and practice their craft and get paid for their craft but also to have experience. you create an environment around filmmaking. you are one of them. >> and that is true. it has to be a good script. all of these guys, they are all smart guys and gals at a not read a script. >> and they are in a demand. >> once you get past that hurdle, they know george and me and they know it will have a

good time. we are not going to kill them. >> they know we are as responsible as we could be with the product. both take a great responsibility and the fact we have gone to these actors. some of the friends of ours is so we do not know well and we asked them to work for not a lot of money on a film and come to germany and england. we are very conscious of making sure we make the product they hoped it would be. guys -- once you have a rough cut, do you show it to your friends? a lot of people i know in hollywood have a group of people they let see their films. he is ridiculously fast. he had a cut almost two days after we were done shooting. >> i screened the movie for a bunch of people. >> people in the film or you care about? >> people in the crew. the cameraman first just to say.

you want them to get a sense of some form of accomplishment already. you spend a few months working. it is hard to screen movies -- require -- and that require a lot a blue screen in the background. it is hard to have an imagination and this is going to be inside or outside the council. but when we saw "gravity" the first time, it was like it is all effects and none of them were in. >> it was just the two of us in the theater. -- like, uh-ht, oh oh, we are in trouble. but he is a filmmaker. >> he has never made a bad film. there are filmmakers i would drop everything to work with. >> he has a point of view. -- he has never

done anything like this. >> he said i was good to do a couple of guys hanging -- [laughter] shouldn't a couple of months. he did a fantastic job. we have no sandy for 25 years. >> forever. we're all kicking around together. >> altra buzz word hosted comes at the time. >> when we were and the acting class, i was 19. >> you were running around the country in some kind of a bus or van playing golf. and having fun and doing whatever you're doing. you got a call. somebody from abc -- nbc has said it looks like we are going to have "er" on thursday nights. >> there'd only been in the last 16 years, two shows.

two shows for eight years. a cradle of love timeslots. they called and said you got picked up for thursday night at 10:00. i think it was you and i -- >> first of all, there was no tour bus. it was a winnebago. i had just gone through a terrible breakup. across country. we were in texas. george said, i have to check my messages. there were no cell phones. he pulled off the road. he went to a pay phone. he had one of those little things that you put it to the phone. he got back to the car. he had a look at i said what? he said our show got picked up and it will to be on thursday night. he looked at me and said my life is going to change. >> you really know something different. >> what was your life at that moment before?

>> struggling actor. struck the actors were working on tables. i had done it seven television series. i was making a really good living but i was not. i was getting to the age, i was 33. it is going to have to happen pretty soon. 12 years kicking around and not really catching. a storyhink this is that is shared by many people, some act of acting is not to luck the site you have a reason for them to want you? >> i think it is luck. if it were just about how brilliant you were, there are better, more talented. it requires an immense amount of luck. i played on that show. i had the romantic lead. i had the romantic lead.

always garnersad a lot of attention. i was really at a spot where it felt -- who knew we would average 40 billion people a week -- million people a and it will become the thing it became? >> what was the first movie? ," i thinkusk til dawn i did nine films while doing the television show. forrk seven days a week about five years. it was very successful for me. pfeiffer with michelle but it bombed. i did the first dreamworks film. that "batman and robin," was a disaster. [laughter] i thought i was in trouble.

i got clobbered. deservedly so. it taught me everything. you figureat point, stuff as an actor. this is great. i called all my friends. i am going to be batman. [laughter] i amo not really consider going to be -- [laughter] know it will be this type of disaster. after that, i relied i will be held responsible not only for what i am doing in movies but the movie itself. i was part of reason. said -- i took about a year off of movies. "threet removes i did, kings."

ngs" got a lot of attention. i think about out of sight. brother, where art thou," really change my life. i showed versatility. >> let's talk about politics. sudan. >> it is tricky. we are going to try to step it up to infrared so busy stuff at night. so we can see stuff at night. we know it is a fairly effective. at night or during cloud cover. a big issue now is in south sudan, both sides including the in aelected, are acting pretty bad way. our job is to make sure and

whether doing it, that we gather imagery from both sides and make sure we put it on both sides responsible. not just one. not to just one you perceived be the bad guys. it is tricky right now. very complicated times. the newest country in the world and is messy and flawed. our hope is -- >> all of the helmets with oil and everything. >> a success story with ghana and not somalia. >> are you more hopeful than six months ago? >> yes, more hopeful. i am still very hopeful. because they work so hard. it is simpler in a way that is going on in egypt where in order mubarak fight, all

of the factions who do not like each other had to get together. it is the celebration. those factions remembered why they hated each other. >> actually in the syria as well. >> you see al qaeda -- al qaeda disowned -- >> just stored did a funny bit last night. stewart did a funny bit last night. say we want nothing to do with those guys. that is too much was that even for us. what is the next film? do you know? >> we do not really know. we have a field and what to do probably this summer. we are producing. >> what is that? >> based on a documentary.

it was carville. >> you probably saw the documentary. >> sure i did. >> they went to bolivia. they run a campaign. all of the negative campaigns. he is overthrown and a couple of days. it is funny. >> isn't hard to find projects you really want to do? there are thousands of great stories. what is the most difficult part knowing it has to have certain elements for the studio? >> no. that is what we are -- that is what we have done best. the movies that could just be made at the studios, we're trying to make the movies unless we force their hand can't get made. the -- and force it by saying we will do it for no money. does the films we are trying to make.

,hen they take the toys away with two films -- -- we will do films that -- >> if you knew what his schedule was, the only person works as hard as him is you. >> i do. it's a pleasure to have you. how is your game? >> bring to your game over here. [laughter] >> thank you. thank you. great to have you. great to have at the table. >> a great to be here. >> of the contributions you have made. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> this week on "political capital," jim jones talks about iran and afghanistan, we break down the jobs are for, we preview the french coming to , and margaret carlson and ramesh and panuru with the last word. the program is former white house national security jones. general jim thank you for being with us. you are familiar with how difficult it is to deal with karzai and afghanistan. there is