>> live from pier three in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west" where we cover innovation, technology, and the future of business. i am cory johnson. coming up, we will talk to eric schmidt and google ideas representative jared cohen. build get their take on everything from robots to nsa surveillance. samsung, defeating apple's bid to ban the u.s. sale of some

samsung smartphones. we will talk about this ruling and what it means for the future of smartphone awards. first, jon and los angeles just spoke with blackberry's ceo. i'm dying to know what he said. >> given this companies smartphone struggle, they have moved on to to plan b. john chen is focused on plan b, less focused on mobile devices and more about managing a whole suite of different mobile devices, given a bring your own device and that trend we are seeing in workplaces. it is still not an easy business. that is where we started our conversation. >> it is very commoditized. the real competition, the real trick is to offer enterprise customers a lot more than mdm, whether it is the enterprise mobile platform, whether you build and manage applications, identity managements, bbm, messaging layers.

these are all important stuff. the huge amount of market potential. it is a nice place to compete. >> last year, this company changed its name from research in motion to blackberry. do you think that is the right name, to have the corporate name blackberry? >> it is hard to comment on whether or not that is a bad thing. not being there, able to see the pros and cons -- i personally like research in motion a lot better, maybe because i grew up with a pager like most people, and it had a keyboard. i don't know. the name is interesting. this is a joke. i will share the joke. i always tell people, if my kid is not doing well in school, i'm

thinking of naming him somebody else, right? if that is the trick and it can make him the number one student, i will rename him every day until i find the right name. naming? we have to compete into the right thing. naming is whatever. we have a good brand. >> in all seriousness, are you sticking with the blackberry name? >> i've never given a one nanosecond of a thought to changing names. >> one thing you have a given a lot of thought to is the future of your devices. you've talked about the q20, the keyboard device for keyboard enthusiasts. in terms of timing, i think it is something you would like to the market for september, before september? >> i would like to have gotten there yesterday, but i couldn't. i have to be making sure that the user interface is one that has modern technology, as well as letting the old user base, like the bold 9900 user face -- user interface, the comfortable. i'm bridging two worlds. it will probably be towards the end of the year, the september-october time frame.

i'm looking forward to that device. >> one of your best known users on the planet is president obama -- and not to say he wouldn't use an iphone. he has said publicly that for security reasons he cannot use an iphone. anything you would try to do to sort of, along this process, see if president obama has any input in what he would like to see in a q20? >> not for the q 20, but as part of my meeting customers, i have briefed the white house from an i.t. perspective on the kind of plan we have going forward. we spoke to them as customer outreach. they were nice enough to share some thoughts with me. >> what are they interested in? >> i probably shouldn't -- that would make national headline is. they gave me some thoughts on

some stuff they like and some stuff they would like us to work on. i took it all to heart. >> i want to talk a little bit about this t-mobile story. they unveiled this trade-in program to trade in a blackberry's for iphones. you blasted them in a blog. they backed down a little bit and tweaked the trade-in program. in recent days, reports came in that this trade-in program was very successful for them. can you weigh in on that? [laughter] >> yeah, it is a strange situation. first of all, i have not seen the data of what they claim to be successful. i have to just be honest. i see everything lit up. it would be nice to see the leaked memo that t-mobile has, the numbers behind it. i don't know whether that is real or not real, but i don't see the fanfare that has generated. this is me not seeing it. it doesn't mean it is right or wrong.

>> so, i don't think the battle between t-mobile and blackberry is over, cory. >> no kidding. t-mobile is probably interested in any conversation about telecom right now. in terms of the blackberry overhaul, it is fairly dramatic. i know you talked to john a little bit longer than that. what else did he have to say? >> a couple of things. we talked about the partnership with foxconn. he has said, we've got to watch ourselves in making devices. they are outsourcing a lot of foxconn, which also works closely with apple. we talked about that. we also talked about where he is finding new people to lead this company. he sold to sap. he has bringing in a ton of sap people. i asked him about that.

he said he is old friends with bill mcdermott at sap. it's billed as an mind too much greater there are some interesting potential partnerships you could see the between this company and sap going forward. as we think of blackberry as more of an enterprise company. >> we have more of the interview. we will run it tomorrow on "bloomberg west." jon always gets a good stuff. both of you, john chen and jon erlichman. you can catch the rest of the interview at 10:00 on the west coast tomorrow. we will have all of that. still headed, bitcoins greater may have been found. we will have that story coming up. you can watch a streaming on your tablet, your phone, and at bloomberg.com. ♪

>> this is cory johnson on "bloomberg west."

samsung's big story, defeating apple's bid to ban smartphone sales. interesting stuff. apple had asked for 20 phones, phones no longer on the market, to be banned, and while apple lost that, it is an important role in going forward in the future of the smartphone battles that revolve around patents and all kinds of other things. we have been covering this. talk to me about why this case, about phones no longer on the market, was important to both sides. >> for apple, it filed this case about three years ago to the day. so far, they have not been able to get an order. >> they essentially won the case. the same judge had found that samsung infringed on certain patents of these devices. apple is saying, we don't care about the monetary award, we care about a ban. >> it is the judge's job to then say, what is going forward the jury? looked at infringement and damages and awarded almost $1 billion in damages, which stand. apple doesn't care about the

money. they care about banning prod that -- products that are found to infringe apple products. the judge, for a second time now, has said, no, that's not going to happen. we have another case coming up for trial, march 31st, over a newer set of products, a newer generation. if this is an indication of what is to happen, it doesn't look good for apple. >> there are billions of dollars at stake in excess of whatever this fine is. future bans, will they be effective? >> no. each case has its own set of products. apple has argued -- what they wanted out of this was a ban.

then they could say, there are products that you're selling that are not more colorably differnt, that use the same technology in same patents that should also be banned. with this judge rejecting it for a second time, this request for an injunction, it is going to be much more difficult for apple to get what they want, which is, again, not the money, but an order banning the samsung products. >> they care about a band for old products because it would influence future decisions about the licensing, the value of certain licenses granted? >> i think that is part of it, but it is more the case that the wheels of justice turn slowly. the case is three years old. when it was filed, the products were still on the market. we have this upcoming case which covers new products. it is apple trying to keep up with samsung's new products and getting an order banning the sale. it takes a lot of time. >> does the judge seem to recognize that the system doesn't work if technology is more innovative than the courts can handle? >> that is the way that this judge is maybe changing the law.

she is saying, there is a lot of patented technology in all of these phones, and making a claim of infringement and seeking an injunction based on just a few patents, she's making it much more difficult for that happen. >> joel rosenblatt, thank you very much. more of "bloomberg west" and emily chang's conversation with parchment right after this. ♪

>> i am cory johnson. this is "bloomberg west." our very own emily chang moderated a discussion with

google's executive chairman eric schmidt and jerod: at a conference down in santa monica called the away since. these two guys wrote a really interesting book. excerpts have been published all over the place. the book, "the new digital age," came out a year ago. emily started by asking eric schmidt how his perspective has changed since writing the book. >> it is interesting if you read the book a year ago and you read this version, a lot of the things we talked about it happen. we talked about the dangers and issues around leaking. that has occurred. maybe the most interesting thing has been the unpredictability of

political change because of technology. at the time we wrote the book, we were really sure that the revolution at tahrir square in egypt would produce a pseudo-democratic outcome. in the last year, i think it is pretty clear we are back to square one. if you look in ukraine today, it is not all clear what is going to happen. nobody has a proposal with how to deal with syria. what we learned is there is some sort of limit technological optimism. if you can empower people, which is what our position is, ultimately, the gun is still speaks. i'm not sure that is a good answer, but i think it is the true answer. >> this is particularly pronounced in syria. i was on the syrian border three weeks ago. one of things -- the things we wrote about in the book, governments in the midst of conflict become so concerned about empowered citizens that they will set up checkpoints to confiscate phones or see what is on them. what did i hear from my friends in syria?

the government has set up checkpoints in damascus and aleppo and homs. they ask you for your phone. if you want willingly give them your password, they hold the gun to your head and ask for it. my friend told me about her brother being found in this situation. the guards at the checkpoint saw a post on his wall that was somewhat sympathetic to the revolution. a signal came from the checkpoint up to the rooftop of a nearby building, which then resulted in him getting shot in the head. this is very real. it is not just that there are cyber security issues and physical security issues. if you look at syria, you have citizens caught in both physical and cyber crossfire. at the end of the day, what eric is saying, ultimately, the world is still governed by states and their militaries. if a country is not willing to step up and intervene, the situation will persist. >> we are in myanmar, burma. we are in a beautiful spot, very peaceful. a few kilometers north of us, there is a horrific town with violence between muslims and buddhists involving 35 people killed, houses being burned, just horrific stuff. in our view of the world, the internet should be a moderator. the internet should allow -- we see that you are ok, we understand your culture, we are more accepting of you, and so

forth. the internet was used exactly for the wrong reasons. it was used to inflame passions on both sides. there was a discussion about shutting it down, which they did not. we are in a danger zone within countries without proper societal tolerance, education systems, rule of law where stuff can be misused. >> in ukraine, technology has been used on all sides, by the government, by protesters, by hackers. how does that play out? >> in the early days of the protests in ukraine several weeks back, the first instance in which it was really spelling trouble for the president was when he lost the information environment. he made the decision to shutdown channel 5, which was the main tv station for the opposition. he couldn't do anything to stop social media. it gave people an additional thing to complain about. once he lost the information environment, he also lost the

military. with an explosion of grievances against the autocratic regime, people started putting their guns down. it is very easy to see -- to unseat and autocrat. what happens next? much more difficult. in future revolutions, they will be easier to start, but harder to finish. they are harder to finish, because if you look at ukraine, it is a highly complex society. it is not just a democrat. the eastern part of the country sympathizes with russia. the government in kiev is still in transition where there hasn't been a charismatic leader to step up. it is far more complex than following a play-by-play. >> in the ukraine, you have a sophisticated population that is highly wired. it doesn't necessarily produce democracy, power, and so forth. it can be used against it. in the book, we talk about egypt. what happened with the egyptian government, hosting mubarak got so scared of what was going on that they shut down the internet for four and a half days. the average person said, oh my

god, they took my internet away. we took that as a signal that the government was afraid. the new government, the new autocrats don't turn off the internet. they infiltrate it. they use the tools against citizens in the same way that citizens are using it against the government. it is a more stable situation perhaps in that sense, but nobody knows who to trust. there is evidence that other networks, vpns in china have all been infiltrated by the very chinese government people are trying to get around. >> eric, you have advised the president. how well do our leaders understand the power of technology? >> i think it depends. >> hillary clinton just joined twitter in june 2013. a little late to the party. >> i would disagree with that. one of the things that hillary clinton and in as secretary of state is elevate the internet in a way that we have never -- >> after google was attacked by the chinese military, misses clinton as secretary of state

gave a rousing speech about the importance of imminent freedom -- internet freedom, is a symbol of democracy, to fight for the rights of minorities. i will always remember her courage in doing that. she was immediately lambasted by all the unfair it -- the authoritarian regimes. you cannot see a better example of the chinese, russian model, versus the democratic model we are so used to. >> i was in china, covering china when google left the country. i remember that speech. when it comes to google in china, have you learned anything that you might apply to your

relationship with the chinese government? how actively are you pursuing the possibility of ever going back there? >> negotiating with the chinese government was difficult. it was my job to do so. all i can say is that it will remain difficult to negotiate with the chinese government. the most likely scenario is that the chinese government will continue to be wary of google. they have the arbitrary power to block access to google services through their so-called great firewall of china. we have tried to convince the many times that the country will be in stronger and better shape, better economic growth and so forth by opening up to twitter, facebook, google, youtube. they don't agree. in fact, president xi -- we were in a meeting with the president and premier, going through all the things they were doing -- >> that's fascinating. i didn't realize they took meetings with civilians. >> it was unclear if they were going to let us in to the meeting until the last minute. >> we showed up and heard their spiel. i concluded, you take them at their word, they see themselves as mandarins, they see themselves as trying to grow the country at 7.5% growth, and they are proud of the fact that they

have listed -- lifted a couple of people -- couple thousand people out of abject poverty. the issues they face, of course, is that 7.5% economic growth is not going to continue for some any decades. they have all sorts of unsolved problems that will become apparent. they have credit problems, etc. also, their citizens are getting connected. they have a chatting service, which is very popular, which is used as a lynching between people. it is very difficult to systematically censored the parallel to mutations of 100 million people. >> we'll have more of that conversation with emily chang coming up, including how the edward snowden and nsa revelations impacted google. more on "bloomberg west" when we continue. ♪

>> you are watching "bloomberg west." i am cory johnson in for emily chang. it's get straight to your top headlines. sony has named sean late in the new ceo of sony computer entertainment america, the unit overseeing the playstation console. the head of the unit is out, his contract not being renewed. they called it a mutual agreement. leyden was most recently the chief operating officer for sony networks entertainment. to privacy groups challenging facebook's purchase of whatsapp. they found a complaint with the

federal trade commission saying that users of whatsapp had an expectation that their data would not be collected for advertising purposes. facebook says whatsapp will operate as a separate company that will honor whatsapp's commitment to privacy. vimeo is hoping to become a destination for new films. the company is starting a $10 million fund to get film makers to sell their movies through vimeo. a movie must raise $10,000 on a crowd funding site or be screened at a major film festival. back to eric schmidt and jared cohen. >> what is the state of google's relationship with the nsa? >> what relationship? [laughter] they didn't knock. >> it is not even complicated? >> they didn't knock. they didn't call.

they didn't send a letter. they just visited. >> the latest revelations from snowden that the nsa colluded with the british gshq to intercept and save images with yahoo! video chat. what are the chances that happens with google video chat? >> we look forward to more disclosures from the nsa on this matter. >> you guys have gotten together with a bunch of other technology companies to petition for changes in washington. how optimistic are you that congress is going to do some of the things that you want them to do? >> the data regime nsa is using is covered under something called section 215. through a series of legal arguments, that is seen to allow the recording of metadata of american phone calls, roughly 330 million americans phone calls come every phone call you make, recorded in their

databases, in order to target 56 people, of which one person was a suspected terrorist. i will let you determine if that is an appropriate use of government power. the courts will sort that out. the group that google was a part of took the position that this metadata collection was not necessary, that there were other ways of achieving the goals of keeping the country safe. the issue of collecting the data was problematic because of the possibility of things, for example, with future leaking. the president, after listening to us and those on the other side, announced in january a committee, which i am actually on, to try to figure out what to do. he said to the nsa that he doesn't want the nsa to keep the data, but he wants others to keep the data. we are working on what the choices are. i will take the president's word, again, that he is trying to actually address this in the balance between interests. in the book, we say quite a bit about this, and in particular, we say, in a democracy, democracies will have this debate, especially now that we know it is going on, and we will find the right balance. let me give you an example.

if i wander around and i asked the question, what rights or privacy would an american give up if there were a horrific terrorist attack once a year, once every few years? just 10 people hurt? the average americans is to me, yeah, i'm fine with this. if you ask the same question in germany, the answer is, we are not fine with it. if you ask the same question in britain, they say, why are you asking the question? what is the problem. if you ask the question of israel, they say, what planet are you on? these are all strong, functioning democracies with different cultural values for all sorts of reasons. in the book, we say that governments need to have this debate and find that balance. >> in the book, we recount a 5.5-our interview we did with julian assange -- >> which he leaked. [laughter]

>> it was while he was under house arrest in the u.k. wearing that ankle bracelet and everything, and the conclusion we came away with was the danger of a bolt leaking is going to continue prudently argued in the hardcover version of the book that there will be more bradley manning types. one of the arguments we made was, who appointed these individuals with the role of determining what should be public and what should not be? this is particularly competent at in an era of bulk leaking. who could possibly read that much material? >> they appointed themselves. >> it is not a good idea to have random people decide to leak large amount of data without some kind of oversight. >> is a snowden a traitor or a hero? >> let me tell you the problem with allowing it. let's say it was large collections of health or data, large collections of tax data. that data is in databases that could theoretically be attacked or leaked. you're better off if a democracy has a system, which allows for such whistleblower behavior. the problem is, once the information is made available to everyone, you cannot take it

back. people could actually be harmed. >> interesting stuff. eric schmidt talks about the future of artificial intelligence, just as interesting. the android strategy at google, coming up in a little bit. you can watch a streaming on your tablet, and at bloomberg.com. ♪

>> i am cory johnson. this is "bloomberg west." emily chang spoke with eric schmidt and jared cohen at a conference called oasis down in santa monica. they talked about robots, artificial intelligence, and which of those things was the most important thing google was working on. she asked eric schmidt. listen to what he said.

>> i think the biggest thing that is going to change is the development of more generalized artificial intelligence. because of the amount of competition that we can now assemble, millions of computers to work on your behalf, we can begin the transition from you asking questions to making suggestions that are quite relevant to you. the ability to do generalized knowledge means that we can not only discover facts by looking at enough information, but we can also sort of figure out the things that you care about. we talk about this in the book, that the evolution of this is, today, on your tablet or phone, you ask a question, and you get an answer -- the evolution is that there will be a device or tablet or whatever that will be this instantly intelligent personal assistant that travels with you, that helps you figure out what you need to do today, what you should know, briefs you ahead of time for meetings,

keeps you entertained. all of that is possible with today's technology with enough hardware scale and so forth. >> i don't even have to ask a question? >> think of it as, we suggest things you might be interested in based on the context and what you're doing. this is all opt-in. in the book, we give an example -- you wake up in your bed that has determined, based on your optimal rem cycle, exactly which minute to wake you up in. there is a wall. it's already got the coffee maker working and so forth. you look at the wall and say, do i need to get up? the wall looks back at you and says, no. it has cut wood that the airplane is going to be late. your boss is confused. you need sleep because you are out late last night. you get 90 more minutes subject to the rem cycle. are you going to use that service?

you bet. you want that 19 minutes more. you sit there and say, how do i feel about that? people will use that. >> google is buying a lot of robot companies. what are you doing with robots? >> we are certainly experimenting with what automation can lead to. that is probably all i should say. in general, robots of one form or the other are going to become much more omnipresent in our lives. they will help us with this and that. they will replace a lot of repetitive activity. much of a manufacturing has now been roboticized or automated. >> is that what you are working on? >> i'm not going to answer that question. >> what does nest look like inside of google a few years from now? >> i would rather not go into future products stuff. a simple way to understand it is, if we go back 20 years ago, at the time, we predicted that people would have ip addresses, five or so, near them all the time. that became the framework for the internet things, as it is now called. you are going to have all of

these devices around. they are going to be able to communicate to make your life better. we are running android in the home. the theory is, you walk into the family room, and your android device is connected to the television. it knows whether you want your text to show up on a television or not. you can go on and on about making your life more automatic. nest is an example of that. >> interesting stuff. there is more of eric schmidt after the break, including what schmidt sees as the future of self driving cars. that plus the secret inventor of bitcoin may have gone unmasked. is he living in los angeles? or isn't he? we will ask that question a

little bit later. ♪

>> i am cory johnson, and this is "bloomberg west." emily chang spoke with eric schmidt and his partner jared cohen, the director of google ideas. they talked about google's latest project, project loon and driverless cars. >> there are more than 1.1 billion users of android, and we activate something like 1.5 million a day. android is a huge platform success. it is free. it is just extraordinary. if you like to use the battle analogy, you have a battle between the iphone and android phones. that fight is producing enormous cost savings, volume savings. consumers benefit enormously from the competition. on the self driving cars, or the driver-assisted cars, the much more likely scenario is that

you'll be driving the car, but the car will be smarter. i think it will be a long time before cars are driving along without anybody in them. >> i had the benefit of being in a google assault-driving car. it is completely fascinating. the ride is just amazing. do you have an idea of when this could be mainstream? >> i think it depends on the level of bugs. it is very important that these cars not have a lot of bugs in them. [laughter] we are very close. that last little bit is hard. >> speaking of connecting the world, why did google team up with facebook for internet.org? >> you're asking an industry question rather than a strategic question. i think facebook and google agree on goals of getting the world wire together. there is no disagreement on our

strategy. >> google is working on broadband balloons. tell me a little bit about that. facebook is reportedly buying a drum company, which also could bring broadband to earth, but it was back to this idea of giving people -- >> we have a project called google x, which is doing very interesting new developments -- we invented a technique where you have high altitude balloons that provide data services, but they are moving in the stratosphere. you have to have enough up. we have demonstrated this working. it is important that you have permission, by the way, of the countries that the balloons go over. it is in the research stage. >> what about google fiber, talking about connecting the united states? you've had success in a couple of different places, challenges elsewhere. comcast is buying time warner cable. the landscape is changing dramatically. do you see business -- is this

proof of concept? >> it seems to me that everybody here would enjoy having a gigabit internet connection. if google doesn't provide it, competitors should provide it. we win with increases in bandwidth run the country and around the world. one way to understand what we are doing, it turns out it is a very good business, but we benefit when people have a very high-speed connections. it is in our interest as a company and your interest as a consumer. >> we just went to utah to cover the fiber rollout. everyone is very excited about it. there are big challenges ahead. how do you overcome those challenges? it is a very established infrastructure. i believe at&t is trying to prevent you guys from using their poles in austin. >> those are workable problems.

the simple answer to the regulators is you want to say to a regulator, is there a true competitive choice for your consumer? if the regulation produces only one player, right, that is probably the wrong approach to regulate. figure out what is preventing a second entrance, whether it is pole attachments, frequency issues, other incumbency benefits. the history of incumbents writing the rules in their favor -- it is important that there is a competitive market. if you look at bandwidth globally, it is competitive in places -- it is approachable, fast, and so forth in places where there is absolute commitment from cannot talk receipt to have high-speed or where there is a competitive market. in plenty of parts of america, there is not a competitive market. >> is the goal to have all of the u.s. on google fiber? >> we will see. we have announced 13 more cities. >> that was google exec of chairman and google ideas director jared cohen with the great emily chang. we are joined right now to talk a little bit about this going. bitcoin, interesting stuff going

on. the great mystery of who is bitcoin, may be revealed today. jordan robertson joins us. your take today? >> "newsweek" had a fascinating story that they believe they have unveiled the identity of the going founder. he is a 64-year-old from los angeles, a retired defense contractor, military contractor, exactly the kind of guy you wouldn't expect to see behind the latest digital currency around. >> somebody who claims to be a part of this, as well, jon erlichman. you are not buying bitcoin. >> yeah, we picked 64. that is his age. what is fascinating about this story is, here is a name, satoshi nakamoto, which, for a long time, people associated with maybe a particular group of

programmers that might be behind the creation of bitcoin. we never really knew because of the secrecy. now, "newsweek" saying it is this fellow living with his 94 euro mother in a two-story home -- there is the possibility, what is the person worth? here they are, living in a relatively modest home, the things that stand out about him being that he is a model train enthusiasts. reporters have been running around town in los angeles today, asking him questions, and all he will talk about is the fact that he is not involved with bitcoin. the big question is the beginning of bitcoin. a lot of reporting has come out suggesting that, since 2011, he hasn't had that much involvement. >> jordan, his personal peccadilloes aside, the notion that he worked in government, what does that tell us about the kinds of things you have to know to create this phenomenon? >> he had a very high level of technical sophistication, which

you would get in decades working for the government in a technical capacity. >> the department of motor vehicle department, maybe not always a lot of great technological facilities. >> he had an obsession with anonymity and e-mail and some of the technical components that would allow you to create this kind of currency. it kind of makes sense. this guy is kind of denying that he was involved, quasi-denying it. as john mentioned, reporters have been chasing him around los angeles, in and out of news bureaus. it is kind of a wild story that "newsweek" seems to have kicked off. >> of all places, hollywood has got to be loving this. [laughter] >> you are right, it is mainly producers running after him. obviously, there is a fascination with bitcoin. now we can talk about the fascination with one individual. this idea, that for years, the discussions around digital

currencies and the problems that there would be with having one dominant one -- we can go through all of the list, but we don't have time -- to be at a point where you've got so many people who are using bitcoin, and i think this week the winkle vos twins saying they will fly to space using bitcoin as payment -- it has been an amazing story. obviously, the ups and downs get reported on. boy, there are so many questions we all have about what was going through his mind in the lead up to its creation. >> flying to space using bitcoin? i wonder what they will use to fly back.

is this the guy? >> it seems like it well could be. the interesting twist is -- i have to give the "newsweek" reporter a lot of credit. she did a lot of digging. some really good digging. records of naturalized citizens, naturalized residents in america, things like that, but the year before the bitcoin algorithm came out, this particular pearson published -- person published a paper before that describing some similar components. that is what gave the reporter or the inclination to look at him. this idea that he would be in the u.s. and not in tokyo, not overseas -- >> with the name -- >> hiding in plain sight. it is a brilliant strategy. >> you are the real jordan robertson. our real jon erlichman from los angeles, thank you for all the great work. remember, you can always get the latest headlines at the top of the hour on bloomberg radio and all the time at bloomberg.com/technology, your

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