>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> we continue our coverage in ukraine. the crimean parliament announced a referendum on if the region

and join russia. president obama said it will violate international law. >> the proposed referendum would violate the ukrainian constitution and violate international law. any discussion about the future of ukraine must include the legitimate government of ukraine. the014, we are well beyond days when borders can be redrawn over democratic leaders. >> pressure has been increased on visa restrictions and obama signed an order enabling sanctions against moscow. john kerry continues his discussion with russian foreign minister lavrov in rome. president putin and russia and everybody to understand our preference is to get back to a normality and get back to a place where the rights

of the people of the ukraine will be respected and the territory of the nation will be respected. the united states will continue to stand with the ukrainian people as allies and friends in the community and elsewhere in order to stand up for the values that we all believe in our fellow -- that define our fellow democracies. meetingficials held a in brussels to discuss the crisis and a suspended talks on a wide range economic pact with russia and threatened sanctions. joining me now from washington is tom donilon, he's earned as he served asma -- president obama national security advisor. second this up before me. what is our obligation and responsibility here? has anunited states

important obligation. we are talking about europe. the preservation of the order and norm put in place in the post-cold war era. and they are being violated. in an attempt by one stated during armed force to lop off another state. this is an important leadership moment for the united states. the united states is working with its allies. problem andugh this that is why you have the president taking the lead on political embrace other ukrainian interim government as secretary katie -- kerry leading negotiations trying to get to an agreement at least an interim state. it is an important leadership moment for the united states. >> the russians, you know the president, you saw him last may. tell me where you think his head is in this. >> as a general matter, the concept of sphere of influence,

balance of power, zero-sum games , these are very real concepts to president putin. dohas set about trying to fine russian policies separate and independent from the foreign policy of the west was. he has defined it as a counterpoint to the u.s. and in west. he sees threats to his country. his view is very much a view of a russia as a surrounded by a set of countries as he regard as the former soviet republic and a russian sphere of influence to be protected. dealt a big, he was blow. he had this rather fanciful view that he can put together a eurasian union and that will be a counterpart to the european union. indispensable -- it is fanciful but it is almost impossible. >> ukraine has a special place in russian history.

is drippinge crisis with history that needs to be understood. demography including the makeup of ukraine. historical and implications have been a history of ukraine and including the last quarter of a century. and there are geopolitics here. it is important to understand the history of ukraine. in many ways, a tragic history. they have tried and carved out a place as an independent nation. >> you believe putin is driven by this eurasian union that he can create as part of his own legacy of coming back from the very darkest days after the fall of soviet union? >> i think he believes ukraine spearential of having a of influence including the former soviet republic that he includes important for the future of russia.

these comments are made about how russian as the knicks and speakers under some sort of threat turned out to be the monster believe false. false.nstrably trying to keep ukraine from orienting to europe. they are going to. the fall of the president in a ukraine was precisely due to the fact he pulled back an association of trade agreement with europe because of the objections as some of the basically, payment that russia was willing to make to offset its pulling back. that was the cause of the crisis. putin thought it was on a susceptible. -- unacceptable. possibility any that if europe had moved faster they could have made the connection and avoided some of this? >> i think in that europe could

have moved faster and probably moved strongly here. they had a year-long negotiation with the ukraine. they fully expected to sign this thing at a summit in november. pulled back.ch russia has considerable leverage. what they did and have done with ukraine is to effectively trade. overhad a very large say the price and supply of natural gas in the ukraine. they cut off natural gas twice in recent years. putin and the russians do have leverage here. that is what this is about. it is about a balance of power and sphere of influence in putin 's mind to get a grip and more influence and leverage after a big blow. >> do you recognize russia should have sphere of influence? >> not to the extent that they

can determine the direction in which the sovereign nation are going to take themselves. the fundamental printable that a country is 46 million people, the ukraine, should them to decide if they want a free trade agreement and association eu.ement with the the position of the united states was not that it would be done to the exclusion of a relationship with russia. the historical ties and economic ties between ukraine and russia are substantial and will be ongoing. the united states and eu did not consider the association with europe to be exclusive. it.n would not tolerate his view was a relation was going to be exclusive to the relationshipsther with the europeans. and of course, what he understood, charlie, if in fact the ukraine oriented itself, it would not be part of any type of eurasian union.

and it would trust toward -- drift toward ties with europe which is where the country wants to go. instead of being in favor, he is in favor of exclusion and keep in the countries as close to him and under his domination. >> what is going to happen in crimea? >> it is not clear. they set this vote to decide whether or not they wanted to associate with russia or the ukraine. like the president said earlier and the europeans, it is blatantly illegal under the -- constitution and international law. a number of things have to go on here. one is i do think and we have to keep our eye on all of them. we do need to support this government in kiev, the new intermec government. putin will do all he can to keep

it destabilized because he does not want to recognize this interim government. it is important for us to politically support. i would have the next meeting in economically so portadown. there's a $1 billion loan agreement on the table. it is important that we continue the efforts of john kerry to get into some sort of the definition of a final state tom interim state of the escalation of the situation stopped one last thing, it is really dangerous. you have a situation in crimea where you have ukrainian soldiers on their own soil, on basis, active-duty soldiers, who are being basically surrounded by russian soldiers despite the fact that an extraordinary andement of by lavrov russian defense minister said that were not russian soldiers highly defense soldiers in

crimea was a that is blatantly false. was here lastnger night. he said it was not a bad thing. if we do not assume those troops are disappearing, russia does not have to look like a defeat for them. >> i think -- two different points. way forrovide an easier them to back off because they are not identify and they have not claimed them as russian troops even though putin came close to doing that in the press conference. i would describe how dangerous it is because you can imagine young soldiers who are faced off like that, you can imagine an accident or miscalculation or emotional action where somebody gets killed and we have a really serious situation. it is important to try and get it to a set of understandings here as quickly as possible. the only thing is to reassure our nato partners. and we need to put in place

where we begun it now sanctions and pressure on the russian government. the discussion has been we do not have a lot of leverage. that is not true. putin, his foreign-policy, is a foreign-policy of unique russian stance in the world. reestablishes a major player in the world separate and apart to the united states and the west. and he can do that. he to stand defiantly aside on the political front. your economy cannot be unplugged from a globalized economy. somebody wrote the other day in 1968 when the russians invaded --choslovakia, there was not and the stock market in russia did not crash because there was not a stock market. the case today is a russia is integrated into the globalized economy and they have all of

those of our abilities. their banking system, trade, travel. a real price to be paid. putin has come to grips. fully calculated the economic pressure and price put on him. >> he has no appreciation of how severe the ancient if in fact europe are dissipated would affect russia? >> he is underestimating the pressure. you are right. if in fact, there are broad-based sanctions, a number of countries participating, especially russia which is third-largest market. >> bob gates was here saying he worries very much that europe will not be able to come together on this. >> will have discussions with the europeans. this would be an american leadership issue. work with the europeans close

and in lockstep. to do the things i talked about in terms of embracing kiev and trying to de-escalate. essentially, where this is going, the europeans a united states will put cats in front of a russia in terms of when we start to de-escalate and what are things we can agree to hear which would de-escalate the situation? can we have monitors come into all of ukraine? get a fair report to ensure that the russian affect -- ethnics are being protected. to get us to a better place step-by-step. if russia over the course of a few days refuse, europeans will come along with sanctions. angela on this will be merkel. she has a leading economy in europe. she also has a direct and withterm relationship president putin. she is going to be the key player in europe.

>> what did you make of her remark that she was not sure he was rational? after a phone conversation with him? >> i was not on the call. when you talk to president putin, he has a distinctive view of the facts. he is willing to make a case like we saw in the press conference publicly and in private that does not adhere to the facts. my view is this. i think he is pretty clear on his strategic interest and iraq and the direction. he is a direct person to deal with. i do think he is an auto crack. and the longer you are an auto , the less yourat are challenged by people around you. that is the way it works. save russia -- to has a foreign policy system. they do not have a system --

they have one guy who makes all the major decisions in my opinion and dealing with the russians over the last couple of years. it was different franklin under ly under the frank former president. i saw when he was inaugurated, it was clear he was going in a different direction and very different style. but that includes his relation with the united states? >> it does. the principal hot point here with respect to the united states has been syria. a fundamental disagreement. putin tells the story from kosovo to afghanistan to libya to syria. going to stand up against the west and was acting under the united states to move under these regimes.

has been the position he has taken. the russians have been really, really a serious problem in quite a destructive of the situation in syria. >> notwithstanding the initial agreement to get the chemical weapons out of syria? >> i am tough but the broader scope of things in syria. with respect to the chemical it is a very good agreement and important for us to get back to cooperation and more important to push the syrians to meet their obligations. that is an example of a russian/u.s. cooperation. we had not had the ukraine situation and it could've been something we could build and hopefully we can into the future. it is important piece of business. >> worst case scenario and then the best case. worst case would be reigniting the cold war. >> a couple of elements. i alluded toing

earlier. this is something that experts in this area have worry about. crimea has been a potential tinderbox from the outset of creation of the ukraine's independence 23 years ago. because the ethnic makeup and history. and because you could have a confrontation between ukraine and russia. that is the thing i worry about. in fact, you have a military confrontation there which can escalate. that would be off to sleep the worst case -- and that would obviously be the worst-case scenario followed by a civil war situation in ukraine. the four-week the two cold war -- before we get to cold war, you could have a hot war in ukraine. bet is the thing we need to very focused on which john kerry focus on the president obama and the europeans are focused on.

they are trying to ensure we de-escalate and get in place some metanarratives -- mechanisms conversations between ukraine and russia for a standdown so you would not have crimeaar in ukraine and and god for bid in eastern ukraine. that is the worst-case scenario. extraordinarily destructive event which we would do everything we can to prevent. that's the worst-case. beyond that, you could have a next stage which would be a standoff between the west and the united states on the one hand and the russians on the other. you can have a real deterioration in relations for an extended period of time if the russians in any way response with the negotiations underway in europe to try to find a way to find a stable place and a

standdown of de-escalation. that would be a place where we would be at having difficult time addressing a lot of global issues. >> best case scenario? >> best case scenario would be that one, the instrument government of kiev can pull off a nationwide set of elections m&a. number two, that government and support adequately by the international community and imf. a stable government. that the doubt government is elected not to their liking they will continue to pressure that the government. a third would be, a predicate to the first 2, a standdown in crimea where you have monitors were the russians go to their bases if they are given assurances to the protection of ethncic russians a given

andbiguous guarantees understanding to respect to their very large black sea fleet base. events by the way, i am sure when putin got back from the olympics where he spent $50 billion trying to enhance russia's image, he got back and i am pretty sure the first thing that his folks said to him was we have to make sure we can protect our bases. >> you have the united states is ang and making the case violation of international law for russian troops to be in there. on the other hand, vladimir putin saying it was an unconstitutional coup to overthrow a democratically elected president. >> yeah. he left the country number one. number two, the interim government was approved by 82%

of the ukrainian parliament. and in fact, all but a few of yanukovych's party voted for the new government. that party issued a statement saying that they are a party and was held hostage by a corrupt family which was true. the level of corruption has been extraordinary. the facts are he was rejected by the ukrainian people. where theyprocess elected a interim government and he fled. indeed, his own party has disowned him. it is a little rich for putin to make this comment given if you watch the press conference how derisive he was about to the former president of ukraine. >> is it reasonable to say that putin was embarrassed by yanukovych and felt he had to do something? >> i do not know if he was embarrassed by yanukovych and i

think it is basically that if they had lost the battle here to keep ukraine from orienting and associated with europe and the west and he would try to do something. leverage and disruptive that in any way he can. the fact is and the russians understand, yanukovych is not coming back to ukraine. at his own party will not have him. asituation where you have interim government and they set a date for elections and a sensible way to proceed. a response cannot be because you disagree with even in a sovereign country, in fact, it provides you with any legal basis on which to bring your troops into that country. and occupy a portion of it. not callediously for. indeed, putin had a number of

ways he could've gone if he was worried about the protection of minorities. he could've entered into agreements with the ukraine and asked for monitors and went to the u.n. this.id not do any of this was a swift operation led by the russian security force to go in and reestablish leverage in the wake of their having a below to their political situation. >> henry kissinger was here last night. he has an op-ed. it appeared in "the washington post." he makes these 4 points. point number one, ukraine should have the right to choose associations included with europe. everybody would agree with that. >> absolutely. that is the key point. what europeans have been making.

exclusivet have to be with us. you cannot call a ukraine to have specific agreements with you. >> ukraine should not join nato, a position kissinger took seven years ago. do you agree? >> we are well short of that at this point. i think i saw polling at the time when it was considered for the majority of ukrainians did not want to join nato. >> you cry should be free to great that ukraine should be free trade and government compatible with its people between various parts of the country and internationally they should pursue a comparable government to finland. respect to finland, that is the point about having a relationship going in either direction which is perfectly

appropriate. >> it is incompatible with symbols of existing rule but it should be possible to put crimea 's relationship on a less fraught basis. ukraine should reinforce crimea's autonomy and elections held. removinginclude inabilities about the black sea. >> that is all sensible. i do not think the russians are interested in that sort of outcome. say, that is not where the russians are. it is sensible. and certainly, kerry is probably pursuing things along those lines. later, not all of the parts would agree with this.

you have to get the best possible outcome. i want to go back to the third point which is really important which is a reconciliation. as i said earlier, it is important for the united states at west to support ukraine and a brace. i would have the next foreign minister be in kiev and john kerry bring the entire group to kiev for meetings to demonstrate the embrace of the world to the government. quite strongly advocating a quick economic assistance. but, we also need to make clear to the kiev government about reconciliation and embracing all ukrainians is really absolutely required. for going forward. the history of ukraine over the last quarter century has been back and forth, east/west divide. fight over who is going to be on

top -- russian oriented group or western oriented group in the west? there needs to be leadership there that says signals and embrace all of ukraine. importantally, really point going forward. the first thing the ukraine parliament the dead was to allowed 2012 law which russia to be used as a common language. thatew president repealed which was an important step. >> does this move forward or backward u.s./russia relations? a prettys a -- this is with u.s./russia relations. the outcome will determine for some time to come. the history of it, we came into

office, obama came into office to pursue a relation with russia and we try to get as much done got quite aand we bit done including a treaty. russia supports for wto. a number of other things. >> tom donilon, thank you for joining us. i thank you. >> thank you, charlie. ♪

>> wes anderson is here. he is one of the most original filmmakers. for visualre known style. his new movie is set in a and pre-world war ii europe. it follows a concierge and lobby boy who becomes his trusted friend. here is the trailer for "the grand budapest hotel." >> why do you want to be a lobby boy? >> who wouldn't? >> my life began. junior lobby boy and training

under strict supervision. many of the most valued and distinguished guests came for him. >> i love you. met her.as also when i >> she is charming. >> so charming. >> i approve. >> houston be my counselor and guardian. -- he was to be my counselor and guardian. >> she has been murdered. >> stop! >> you are looking so well, darling. you are. last --is madame's beinting the queen bed -- queathed. >> if you lay a finger on my

mother, living or dead. >> we need to make a plan for your survival. we may need a magnifying glass but it tells you how to find it. >> that is the term. >> ♪ want -- every 100 kalama terse. -- kilometers. >> ♪ >> you cannot arrest him because it's a bloody immigrant. he is a bloody immigrant. >> take your hands off of him! >> ♪

>> have you ever been questioned by authorities? >> i was arrested and tortured. >> i am pleased to have wes anderson back at the table. we looked at a rather long trailer. >> do i even need to see the movie? >> when you watch the trailer, tell me what you saw? what is the artistry? >> we have a great cast. rareve ray fines, who is a powerhouse. impression ofhis him as a shakespearean actor. but the thing i realize working with him is he is more like a method actor and a marlon brando kind of actor. and i love that. it is -- i had a similar experience with gene hackman as

somebody who takes it. years ago. yes, we have a great ensemble. >> described jude law. -- there is aace sort of framing device in the movie in the 1960's. it is in the 1930's, most of the movie. we have an author played by jude holm is a character -- who meets a character and jude sort of narrates. he is our guide into the story. >> and the story is? >> the story is, it is about a wholeconcierge who has a kind of circle of women admirers, mostly rich, older women. one of them dies. he gets sort of caught up in the fight forkind of a

the inheritance. say about you is you want people to have fun on your set that you want people you like on your set. you love making movies. why not make it an adventure? use -- >> you said it perfectly well. that is how i feel. we went to this town -- we went around hungry and czech republic and poland and wandered all around figure out where we would do the movie and how. we found this department store in a town, a little city on the polish border in germany. for usa great location to build the lobby of the hotel. partly location and partly a set. we found this little hotel in the middle of the city that i felt we could take over this

place and all live there. it turned out to be a perfect kind of home base for us. >> how did you find the story? a real person is who is one the inspiration. it is based on a real person, an old friend of mine. -- i started reading this author and only maybe six years ago or so i started reading his stuff. i had never heard of him. the more i read, the more i thought i could do something -- i can do my version of his world. >> what happened to him? a -- he was a -- >> he was he was from indiana. -- vienna. nna before in vie

the first world war where art was the center of everything. a was the center of art and europe. he saw this old little rate it -- obliterated by the first world war and nationalism and fascism and communism was on its way. he got out early. and hea jew and vienna got out before their episodes and he cleared out early. he did not really recover from what he witnessed and what he felt was happening in europe. and he ended up eventually tom i he was here in new york and then he ended up in south america and brazil. 1942, he commits suicide with his wife. that is the end of the story which is part of a why -- at

few years ago, he was a forgotten voice in america at least. >> he was a best selling author in europe. >> the biggest. >> gustav h. is? >> the concierge manager. >> he is based on a friend of yours? >> yeah. ,ur friend is not a hotel guy but the way he talks. and his personality. many details. keywords heavy -- keywords heavy dose of cologne. six squirts every morning. >> such as were movies, from. when you make this, people say about you, probably unfair, he is a most interested in characters and the little nuances of relationships, father/son relationships, that

is what he cares about. he is not as interested in stories. you do not like that, you do not agree with that? i get is more into props that into human -- when i am making movies, what i care about are the characters. that is what im and two. i like to make a world for them where we made from our imagination. into. that is what i am it is not invalid criticism. when the as what is the most important, it is the relationship between ray and tony, these two characters. >> the lobby boy. if you do not have it, you do not have a movie? >> no matter how great the wallpaper is.

>> why is that, the setting? the moment? >> i think -- good thing you see the most where we have the square or rectangle in the movie and the faces are a big part of it. clothes and said that we have this amount of set to communicate whenever feelings and ideas, so i want to work on all of it. >> we have talked about this, too. isn't this about surrogate fatherhood? >> yeah. i am very close to my father. people often ask me because i do these father/son-esque. >> you grow up in houston? >> yeah. always great friendship with my father's, --

father, i had various mentors and good friends that are 30 years older than i am. and that has been important to me. -- he is fromd i dallas. went to school together in austin. >> university of texas? >> university of texas. gatherst movie we did to was produced by james l brooks who was our mentor and taught us everything about how to make a script and add it and function . to this day, i know i am doing what i saw jim do in so many situations. i saw him, the strong and clear

-- i saw him get it. howi said, i see, this is it is done. those kind of relationships mean a lot. it's a martin scorsese is a great admirer of yours. you know that? >> he has been kind to me. >> he admires you. is there a relationship? >> there's a relation with me i live the hell. every now and then -- of me idolizing him. -- every now and then, he is a person who will screen films and over the years, i have gotten an invitation to see what he is looking at that today. it is always a little master class, two movies. one of the film i made in india, i made this movie because i went over there as saw this movie called "the river," i had never

seen before that martin scorsese was screening. i knew what i wanted to do next. know, he has the film a foundation which is one of the into theable resources organization of for this art form ever. >> what are the best shows ever done on this program was when on ellini.a -- death of b the passion for craft and want to share and share the enthusiasm. all of it. >> "wolf of wall street," three-hour movie, all entertaining. you do not think how big it is. what is basically a comedy of that alleged that has such power and energy and surprises. isry time leonardo dicaprio talking to us on camera, it is like a jolt of adrenaline.

h.,et's show where gustav lobby boy. that is where they find out they visit athey must go recently deceased hotel guest. just to show you how great the cast is. >> ♪

>> what to do you want? >> ♪ >> dear, god. >> i am terribly sorry. >> she needs to me. pack?ick can you >> in five minutes. >> [laughter] >> what did i just see? >> this is two guys, we have ray, somebody with tremendous craft and the trading and experience and he is talking very, very fast. not too many people who can't take this and blast a you can understand every word. he has acted opposite a great kid who has never been in anything. only high school. and the funny thing is on the

quickly,e movie, very neverid, we forget he is done this before. he just acts like it is business as usual. ,ot only is it his first movie he has never even had a job. he is showing up for work every morning. >> did he do quite well? >> he did great. he is quite resilient and charismatic and self-possessed. >> when you write you every movie you ever made you wrote, could you imagine doing somebody else's movie? i, yes i can. soi have nothing of my own. far, every time i finish a movie, i have something boring that i really want to do -- brewing that i really want to do. if i have a period that i do

not, i will take something from somebody. >> when you write, do have actors in mind? >> i had ray. i did not tell him. done and tried in different ways and that was over the years, the best way to get an actor to not want to do the part is to offer it to them. that is the first signal it may not be as good as they thought it was so i'll try to be psychological. i sent a rate of script as said is there a part you like? he has the biggest part, the best part. around it.dged >> did he come as they gustav h.? >> he claimed the right parts. the rest of the actors, i did

not think about them until the script was done. the only time i had this happen. we had everybody that we wanted part isor matilda's that she is 85. originally, we offered it to angela lance berry was that she was not able. -- lansbury. -- but she was not able. i love matilda and i said she could be 85. i think maybe -- the actors describe it as -- for me, when we got on the set to we have prepared everything and we have everything arranged. and they take over. we usually do a lot of things very, very quickly -- one after another. depending on the kind of scene it is, most of the time we work very fast.

they bring a lot of energy to it. it usually feels a little chaotic on the set. i feel like they may not change the lines of but they improvise everything else. how they are going to do it. it usually feels very spontaneous on the set. >> this is a bill murray will stop he plays -- murray. he placed a concierge. you and bill? a seven movies together which is a pretty good run. i have had him and bigger parts and littler parts. the first one was "rushmore," he is one of the people i got to know. i was such a big fan. doingged to luck into him this first movie. he is a very loyal person. not only have i had the luxury of getting all of these

characters do be played by this spectacular actor, but i also have gotten the luxury of having him involved in these movies in whichto-day weight -- way he brings more than you can expect to be set. isis somebody whose energy experienced by everybody he works with and he could be a very, very wise person. a great advisor a great friend to have. >> here is the scene. roll tape. >> get in! >> we found the butler. he is hiding out. at the observatory tomorrow. tell no one. in 4.5 will leave minutes. here are the tickets. it was overbooked. -- henductor used to be

pulled strings. you will need this for the dining car. one last thing. only half an ounce. should get something as a symbolic gesture. how much money do you have? >> blessed you. [laughter] remember? a senior -- scene you remember? yeah, he has a small role. if you have one part you want to penetrate and grab people with, he will grab you. >> have you made the movie you most want to make?

>> when i first started making movies, i had three or four movies in mind. i had the sequence of moves in mind that i did does. " rushmore," and the one after that. those 4 movies i had in mind in collegend i were to gather we were working on them and some little form. they existed. everything after that is something from later. i am sort of passed all of the moves i felt i needed to make in the beginning. but i have something kind of brewing. i do the one at a time. >> great to have you here. wes anderson. the film is called "the grand budapest hotel." 7.opens friday, march ♪

>> this week on political capital, jeffrey goldberg on his interview with barack obama and the latest on ukraine. julianna goldman talks obama's budget. and paul ryan's plan. >> we start the program with governor rick perry of texas. thank you for joining us. you have a commode to us reception when you spoke your this morning. you have said that you're going to hold off on whether