>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> simon schama is an historian and professor at columbia university. his most recent project is a multimedia account of jewish

history. it includes the pbs documentary series and two books. here is a look at the opening of the series. >> this is a jew. and so is this. this is a jew. and this. and this. so am i. what do we have in common? not the color of our skin. not the languages we speak. the tunes we sing. the food we eat. not our opinions. we are a fiercely argumentative lot. not even the way we pray, assuming we do.

what ties us together is a story, a story kept in our heads and hearts, a story of suffering and resilience. endurance, creativity. it is the story that made me want to be an historian in the first place. i understood when i was quite small that there were two special things about the jews -- that we had endured for over 3000 years despite everything that had been thrown at us and that we had an extraordinarily dramatic story to tell. somehow, these two things were connected, that we told our story to survive. we are our story. >> is this a story you were made to tell? >> it is a story i could not

help but tell. i was born in 1945, charlie. when we came out of those bleak soup years, there were two histories that had been pulverized. one was english history and the other was jewish history. they were down, but they were not out for the count. my father, who was equally passionate lover of british literature and history and an orthodox jew, also thought they were connected and there was something about owning a history that would sustain you when you lost territory, when you were threatened with annihilation. somehow, if those words actually endured, and the jews invented the possibility of a story as

life belt, life would go on. jewish history, if you are wordsmith, is the ultimate history. we do not know what the first temple looks like. they would have disappeared without their words. there was probably some moment that we cannot determine historically around the eighth century bc when the notion of the portable word, your identity would not be around a king. there was no king until there was saul.

the promised land was an idea as much as it was territory, but was not the point. someone had the idea that the book itself was a way to establish who you were. it would lay down rules for living and it would give you a story. some moment, there was a very clever scribe somewhere. >> what it means to be american is the constitution. >> it is exactly so. america is different. what makes it different from all other states is it is built around an idea. it is built around democracy. it is not built around a particular language.

it is not built around the usual markers of who you are. >> you say the history is that once particular and universal. >> those rules, the 10 commandments, are addressed to the children of israel, to the jews who become their custodians. god tells abraham that these precepts also have universal application. do not kill, do not steal and all the rest of it. the question is, to read that out of the bible would be fashionably perverse to say the choice -- but it comes with a huge burden. a man sits down next to a woman and she has the biggest rock on

the world on her finger and he says, excuse me. she says, it's the plotnick diamond. it is wonderful, but it comes the terrible burden. mr. plotnick. >> the most intense version known to human history of adversities endured by other people as well of a culture resisting its annihilation of remaking homes and habitats, writing the prose and poetry of life through a succession of uprootings and assaults. >> that is another reason. i did not want to put that right at the beginning. it turns out, in my view, that

apart from the slow death of the planet, the most important problem we have cultures opposing and different beliefs attempting to share the same space without the obligation to exterminate each other. when i was a kid, one thought the kind of visceral religious ativism was a thing of the path. the horror of world war ii and the holocaust was going to make that redundant. open the newspaper, ukrainians, russians, shiites, that turns out not to be peripheral, but actually central to the way the human species behaves in the world. the jews, we are a kind of refugees and fugitives. those terrible pictures in

syria, who would imagine that at this moment we are the era of the uprooted. the jews are not the only uprooted, but we have lived that most extremely, most relentlessly and somehow got through it. >> how did it shape you? >> my predecessor always complained that jewish history, that was not the whole story. we are not a smiley face history, but nor is it all about calamity and misery. i kept colliding with misery and tragedy. what is said in spectacular illuminations in the bible and in prayer books, when you have a sense that you have to be a

suitcase-ready people, you do not assume the worst, but you'd better be prepared for it. when that happens, you tend to bite on life harder and deeper and with more relish. >> that is why homeland becomes more crucial. >> the homeland issue is genuinely tragic. much more jewish history than you would imagine is about heroism of ordinary life, families and weddings and jokes. it is true to say that any particular circumstances, in russia, and in central europe -- the victim game, nobody is going to take our olympic gold away from us. i do not want to be victims of

bullies, but we were the most abandoned people. the united states all but closed its doors to jews at the moment of greatest extremity. the british do the same. pretty much everyone does the same, except shanghai and the dominican republic. at that point, the homeland is really a life raft. the competing instincts, paranoia and life celebration, that stirs the broth of what it means to be jewish. >> you are skeptical you could write a history of the jews. >> i still am. >> you do not know that you have done it?

>> i am sure that i have not done it. you make brutal decisions about what story you can tell in an hour and in five hours. >> this began as a film project or a book project? >> this time, the bbc saying -- >> you're the only person who could have done this. >> i am sure that is not true, charlie. what i did think was the bbc, with its grand and courageous institutions, sometimes like pbs, does not want to run into a

storm of trouble. hard to think of any project which is more likely to cause trouble. i was struck by its gutsiness of wanting to do it. there is a chasm of ignorance and misunderstandings about jewish history in europe. jewish history is primarily of israel-palestine or the holocaust. israel-palestine makes people put their brass knuckles on. holocaust makes people think they are treading on egg shells of the bones of those lying in auschwitz. here is an opportunity to try and say, here is a story, come on in.

you are welcome to this. it has lots of celebration, lots of music, a lot of grief, a lot of color. we had more than 3 million people watched the first episode in britain, where we have quarter of a million jews. >> 250,000? >> yes. >> why the dates? >> i suppose the reason is the first archaeology, it is a recent dig where the david and goliath showdown is set. that has been extraordinary because there is a fortified settlement on the hills of judea which was part of a larger estate. jerusalem was not full of davidian palaces.

there was something going on, which now has found a document in the archaeology. that was around the 11th century. this site, which is beautiful, was full of all of olive pits. it is carbon dated. 1492 was because it is a traumatic upheaval, the expulsion of the jews from spain. you do not want to compare it to what happened in the 1930's. it is incredibly traumatic. what happened in germany was the end of a prospering flourishing creative community.

what happened in spain is an obituary for genuine creative intercultural world. even the world of jews in christians spain, some of the most miraculous architecture and poetry is written. that is destroyed, annihilated by the expulsion of the jews from spain in 1492. >> a narrative that played directly to one of his greatest strengths. he has always had a genius to celebrate the myths. >> i am fond of myths. you have to enter the dark forest, even though it feels very unjewish.

we have myths in judaism as well. >> tell me what this is. >> this is a wall painting in syria. a place we could not get to film because we were inconvenienced by the civil war. what you are looking at is baby moses as a new grandpa and he is being held by sarah's daughter in a wet t-shirt. behind are miriam and baby moses and his sister and mother looking on. most jews still believe that synagogues are not allowed to

have any images in them because of the second commandment. the fact is that all early synagogues are festooned in images. here we have the time when christian icons are just starting, we have a jewish icon in one of the earliest synagogues we know about. >> the next slide is the jews being beaten out of england. >> this is not clearly a jewish image. look at the pleasure the man look at the pleasure the man with the club is getting from smashing it down on the heads of jews. there is a moment when there are there is a moment when there are

hundreds of gallows set up over london all with jews swinging. >> this is a twin story of archaeology. >> of word and image. they played together. we talk about portable writing. the jews invented tiny hebrew writing which forms pictures. it is quite extraordinary because at the same time words and at the same time animals. in some sense, the deep relationship between words and picture is very important. >> thank you. ♪ >> one year ago this week, pope francis became the head of the catholic church. the archbishop of new york knows francis is better than most and was part of the college that

elected him. i'm happy to have him on this anniversary. you were one of those who selected? as you've said to me, you knew what you are getting, but even then, you were surprised what you got. >> you quoted me right. we are not surprised of the substance of the pontificate. i think we are surprised at how quickly and efficiently he began to implement his own agenda. we are pleasantly and gratefully surprised. i never knew this, i was a rookie. almost as important as the conclave, almost as important is what we call the congregations which meet 10 days ahead of

time. and that is almost like the new hampshire primary. a lot of stuff we talked about, it was very clear. he is doing a lot of stuff that we have suggested and we will often refer to that congregation. >> tell me what you cardinals wanted in a pope. >> you want a holy man, a sincere man, you want a man who mirrors jesus christ. that would be true. what we really wanted this time was a man who had a good track record of management, governance, administration. he had run one of the largest and most diverse diocese in the world. we wanted a man of simplicity and sincerity. we wanted a man who was a pro at

presenting the timeless truths of the faith and a sparkling new way. that is what we were looking for and that was the job description. that is a tall order. i think the year later, i think we say bingo. >> how has he changed the church? >> he has changed the persona of the church. the very fact -- i have been invited to your show before, most of the time when there is a crisis. there is a controversy going on but the vatican said this. thank you for those invitations. you are inviting me because the world seems to be captivated by this guy. the church seems to have gotten its luster back. we wanted a guy who could restore the luster, the poetry,

the mystery of the church in a beautifully simple and sincere way. >> he seems to have reminded people what the message of jesus was. >> you saw the interview he gave. i am no superman. one of his frustrations might be that his basic message, 95% of everything he says, is jesus christ. that is his message. people seem to be caught up on the fact that he does not live in the palaces, he wears black adidas, he pays his own hotel bills. he is saying, i wonder why they are fascinated with this. i hope they pay as much attention to what i am saying as they do to some of the

superficialities. he has to do it philosophically. what he is reminding, this is not a career. we are not about ambition, we are not about power. we are about service. he will have to change it structurally. i think that is the appointment of the cardinal of secretary of state, who is widely respected as a man with immense pastoral skills, a sense of humility and service. the second was the appointment of cardinal george pell, the australian rugby player. we have to get this money under control. this is giving the church a bad name.

francis has appointed a no-nonsense streetfighter, rugby player. he will ask the right questions and clean it up. those are two indications that reform is important. >> we talk a lot about crisis in the church. it had to do with predators -- where is he and what does he intend to do? >> it would not surprise you that the american cardinal's

often speak to him -- talk about getting beat up. talk about a church that has suffered. a church that has suffered immensely because of this. we have some credibility in the church universal. the americans are making a lot of progress. he takes it with the utmost seriousness. if we are going to be sincere, if we're going to be truthful to the gospel, what you are talking about is virtue and responsibility, openness and honesty, integrity. these are the things we need to make sure are in place so this horror does not happen. he will bring people together. he just set up a 15-member commission to exercise some vigilance over finances. he asked cardinal sean o'malley, would you set up a group to make sure the church universal is in accord with this? you are doing a pretty good job in the united states. i am worried that it will spread to other countries. he takes it very seriously. >> controversial issues like abortion, divorce, women in the church.

does he concern himself with those issues? where is he on those issues? >> there is a bit of a change. there is a bit of a change in approach. the word used to be that catholics should not even talk about these things. pope john paul and pope benedict have said no more discussion on those things. they did not say that, but it was the perception. this pope seems to say, you can talk about it all you want. i need to listen. i owe it to you to give you a good hearing. >> i want to talk about that, but we also have to talk about other things. >> his strategy is if we say, controversial issues, let's put those aside. let's first extend the arms of

the church and bring people in. once they get in and see the truth, goodness, and beauty of the church, they will see the consequences of their beliefs. those other issues might fall into place. if we lead with those controversial issues, people will not come in to begin with. if we lead with the person of jesus christ, we will get people in and gradually the transforming grace of the teaching will take over. that is his new strategy. >> he is uniting the church internally? >> yes, i think so. internally and externally. i cannot walk down the street without a guy saying we love this new pope.

internally, could be some problems because the church, like any other organization, does have factions and divisions. he is uniting them by the power of his sincerity and simplicity. >> what is his biggest challenge? >> it is to restore the credibility of the church. the essence of our faith is that jesus christ is alive in his church. jesus and his church are one. most of our people, they acccept jesus christ, but they have troubles with the church. for us as catholics, that bothers us because the wisdom of the church is that jesus is alive within his church. the main challenge for pope francis is to restore that luster, that magnetism.

>> cardinal dolan, thank you. ♪

>> ferran adria is of the worlds most renowned and innovative chefs. he revolutionized the concept of eating with his restaurant el bulli. he closed it in 2011 to start a new foundation. >> ♪ >> the people around here create things. it seems everyone is able to explore the limits of creativity and imagination. it looks like a traditional olive. it is liquid inside. they introduce it in a swimming

pool. what you achieve is out of this liquid -- when you take it off, you achieve a hard consistency. there is still liquid in the inside. a good thing. nothing here will be what it seems. this is liquid inside. [laughter] [laughter] it is.

>> his avant garde menu is about as close to art as food ever gets. his sketches were shown at the drawing center in new york and has a new book. it features over 750 recipes. here is a glimpse of those dishes from his recent film. ♪ ♪ >> i am pleased to have him back at this table.

i am glad to have his interpreter as well. good to see you, my friend. this man invited me to come for the last meal. i could not come. >> when he opens up the foundation, you will be able to, and he will be waiting for you. >> what is the foundation? >> it is a project whose slogan is feeding creativity. we want to help society, motivating people to create, using cooking as a tool. it is made up of three projects.

it is difficult to explain because there is no frame of reference for it. it could be a media lab of gastronomy that you could visit. a small child could understand what the creative process is. dna is the creative team, everything they create will be spread on the internet. it is a reflection on information and knowledge in a world where the internet has changed all the rules. what is the information we have to learn? what knowledge do we have to have? in this case, cooking.

>> you are one part chef, one part scientist, one part artist. how did you become that way? >> i am just a neighborhood kid. i did not go to university. i had the good luck to be with marvelous people, for example now. it would not be logical. the only thing i have done is learned, observe and ask the why of things. why, why, why? from this point, i always talk about you in europe.

the best interviews are with charlie rose, he has done the best interviews. that is what life is in the end. sometimes you get answers and sometimes not. >> answers to what? sometimes you get answers? >> first and foremost, life. the hardest thing there is to do is to get up in the morning, look in the mirror and to be happy. everybody wants this, of course. everybody looks for this. i have achieved this. i get up in the morning very early and i work 16 hours doing what i love. i go to sleep and i am happy. why? i have passion for what i am doing. i like challenges. but i always believe i will not reach. but i fight to achieve them. in the end, that is a life is,

the struggle to reach a challenge. relative to cooking, which is a wonderful discipline, it took us millions of years. our brains got bigger and that is how we are what we are today. what happened? over 2 million years in relation to cooking, there are a few things that we were able to make. we did not have the intelligence to create a lot of things. that is magical. when you look at cooking and this relationship, among the first creativity was cooking. we will be asking ourselves

these questions. >> you were the number one chef in the world. you had a restaurant that people begged to come to. reservations took many months. you gave that up, you closed the door because you said you wanted to create a legacy for the next generation. >> i closed it as a restaurant. i have been a consultant and a

consultant of 25-30 companies. now i am a world ambassador. it is a facet that few people know about me. i have learned how difficult it is to have longevity, creative longevity. if you anticipate what is going to happen. it was because we can look ahead and see that maybe in five years, we would decline. a creative decline. we had to create a chaos, a big chaos so that that would not happen. i am 50 years old and i am very good friends with the vice president of m.i.t. and he was telling me, what is going to happen with all of this? what will happen with the

legacy? the restaurant is ephemeral. we started constructing the foundation. it's a space, a strange space. the restaurant opens or closes, it does not get transformed. this is what is amazing. we are constructing every day the story. we have done five exhibitions on el bulli. there will be an exhibition on the creative process. it has never been done before. the concept of the creative audit. these books are based on that idea. the creative world, you have to have these things.

you cannot just say i am creative, now leave me alone. when you put money down in a center, you have to have a result. people say you are a chef. yes, but you're involved with very big companies. you have a global vision. what do we have in the restaurant world? immediacy. when you go to ask for coffee, you want it right away. if you apply this to the creative process, it is crazy. we want to share in the foundation. people will come from other disciplines, from any discipline, and we will compare

and share the creative process. is it better to work in the morning or the evening? do you have scenes with 1, 3, 5 people? how do you make up the team? how do you teach them mental strength? how does the creative spaces have to be? all of my experience, we want to share it. >> david chang, our mutual friend -- we had a meal together. he says this is an inspiration to chefs, to constantly and continually question the status quo. >> i did not like too much about what it meant. now that it has closed, i am a little more free to think about what i thought about the place.

the idea of ego -- on my part, it is already covered. otherwise, it would've been called the adria foundation. el bulli was created by a lot of people. people like david chang, even though he did not work there. we were making cuisine evolve. when you look at all of the people who have passed through, they are the most influential cooks in the world, you knew something special was going on there. the ethics, honesty, the sharing, liberty, freedom, risk, passion. it is the dream that you could have it, that the whole team would have this.

this is created by all of the people who passed through. lots of young chefs that have this philosophy, not so much the dishes themselves, but the philosophy. >> these are images that are in the seven books. evolutionary analysis 2005-2011. take a look at this. >> this is 2005. we started to understand and do solid cocktails. it is a fashion now. the cocktail world has been revolutionized. >> next one is dish 2.

>> this one is magic. it is a green almond. you would cover it like a vegetable and you would make a juice. no one had done it before. >> dish 3. >> it is a dessert created by his brother. the concept is nature. it is one of the most imitated styles in the pastry world. >> dish 4. >> this is also incredible. they are roses. you can eat these roses.

people were, like, roses? as if it was a vegetable. what is an artichoke? it is a flower. and roses are, too. we treat it like a vegetable, we treat it like a vegetable here, it was magical. the first time in the history that they did this. >> next is culinary evolution 1. >> when did cooking start? archaeologists, anthropologists, we were studying it. we reached the conclusion -- you have earthen ware. you can boil things, fry things, stew things. if we did not have these tools,

we have agricultural. you have livestock, ranching, milk, and derivatives. you have commerce and trade, people exchange products, and we stop being nomads and become sedentary. before you could eat. that is a theory, it is very proven, and it marks the path of the studies to the future. >> culinary evolution 2. >> to get this theory set up, there is no photo to explain it. half a million years ago. how can i visualize it? when i would imagine eating fruit. i draw in the morning, i get up

at 7:00 in the morning. it was a story i would imagine in my mind. this is the exposition that we did at the drawing center and now it is going to los angeles in may. >> the next one is culinary evolution 3. >> a reflection -- how many trees that give fruits were there in the origin? maybe there were five. this made me think. 3 million years ago, there were very few vegetables and fruits. everything was mixed in a changed genetics in a slow way,

but a plum, for example, is a mix. a nectarine is a mix of a peach and a plum. i imagined how it was evolving, the whole vegetable world and fruit world. >> your friend, my friend. >> a very important figure in the world of cooking and cuisine. he has brought the scientific method and way of working. i learned so much from him. it is a luxury, an incredible luxury, that nathan is working on this. we have to thank him so much.

he is the most intelligent person i have known in my life and i have known a lot of people. you know him. this is an example of how smart he is, he has not started a restaurant. that is the interesting part. >> and he takes beautiful photographs. >> he also made microsoft. >> he was the chief technologist at microsoft. here is what he said about you. >> i think he had an amazing contribution to 21st century. >> molecular cooking? >> pioneering his own style and bringing spanish gastronomy up to the highest level.

ferran in 1983 comes to work as a bus boy in the restaurant of a miniature golf course. a seaside bar and grill with a minor miniature golf course. this is not a very propitious start to change the world. he taught himself. he kept innovating and innovating, wanting to emulate the great masters in france. he emulates them and then blows right past, creating his own dynamic and unusual cuisine. >> i am fortunate to have him. he has made reflections that have enriched us greatly. there is a great revolution in the world of cuisine. yesterday i was talking to a journalist, they're worried because chefs are starting to think. [laughter] of course we have to think.

it is not to become philosophers. if we are cooking, we have to understand what we are doing. someone like nathan, he shows us the way. >> and so do you. thank you for coming. thank you very much. ♪

>> live from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we cover innovation technology and the future of business. there are questions about whether these chinese companies will do enough to protect investors. sales broke $1 billion in sales last year. can digital do enough to save the otherwise sluggish music business?