♪ >> from our studios in new york, this is "charlie rose." >> on february 21, 2012, pussy riot, a baklava art group

, staged an anti-putin protests in the cathedral in moscow. two members of the group were arrested and sentenced to two years in a russian penal colony. they were charged with hooliganism and inciting religious hatred. their trial captured the world attention and changed the way much of the world views russia. the two women were released in december. they became political activist. joining me are the women behind the masks, nadezhda tolokonnikova and masha alyokhina. also, masha gessen, a journalist and author whose book, "words will break cement," tells their story and their impact. i am pleased to have them here on this broadcast. let me begin. tell me what impact you think these two, by their protests, by their imprisonment, by the release have achieved in russia. >> that is a difficult question. what impact they have achieved. in russia. the option of achieving something through protest in russia is extremely limited. russia is a country living

through a crackdown. where thea country media have been controlled by the state for half a generation. despite that, they have managed to stage a light on the nature of russia's evolution today. on russia's slide into the middle ages. basically. going in toh them with their ended statements in court six months later. >> what did you think you were doing when you took on vladimir putin? >> we wanted a new future for ourselves. we were using the kinds of methods we were able to use. regrettably, russia is a country where we do not have an opportunity to go and officially be a part of politics. we and other people of our generation are choosing a different path through art, a path that is a genius pass for humanity, that can magnify your

voice at thousand times. we continue to act, to give example of how you can be free from fear of putin even if you are weak. thate completely convicted our strength is in our weakness. our speech in court only demonstrates strength is in our weakness. it is a very christian story. you can see an example of christ himself, that weakness can give birth to the strongest religion in the world. and during the court proceedings, we wanted to show that if you can sacrifice if not yourself, then at least two years of your life, it is worth the price.

the freedom worth that price. physical freedom. our physical incarceration has nothing to do with the true freedom for which people are fighting. for which people endure revolutions and more. >> you mentioned christ. how much did religion have to do with this? >> very direct. religion was born from christ. if you take christ out of christianity, wrist unity will disappear.nity will the church will disappear. this idea would be nothing without christ. christ is the person that showed with his entire life, for his existence, that sacrifices also i spossible.

that sacrifice is possible. sacrifice for love, and forgot. >> putin was two weeks away from claiming reelection to his third term as president. they were comparing him to god. priests were forbidding parishioners to go to protest. pussy riot shined a light on that unhealthy relationship between church and state and the misuse of religion. that continued through the trial, which can only be described as a witch trial. >> what about the trial? >> witnesses testified to their being possessed. >> that they were possessed? >> when you heard that

testimony, what did you say? >> it was interesting. if you step back from this a bit and rise above it, you can see that the process is a performance. it was very difficult to imagine how in the 21st century anyone can be judged by the 13th century laws. in our courts, we heard did you believe in god. aswhether god is a s real the moscow subway. theological discussions are, shouldn't be happening in court. they decided these discussions did happen. it only shows the absurdity of putin. it wasn't really a true court. another propaganda of a regime. >> why did you choose the name pussy riot? >> bright. bold. yes. also, because we wanted to feel

more freed from the limitations. our these words can put, on shame. not just on us, but the government officials pronouncing the words with great pleasure. and, seriously, it is guilt that is a very strong amluence on us, and i paraphrasing of a movement. we wanted to do something like that and russia. at some point we realize that something like that is very unlikely. we decided to create it with our own hands, and we did it. >> you get sentenced to prison. did you expect that? when you were sitting in the court? >> no.

when we were arrested, we were very clear. couple would spend a years in jail. the police and the investigators told us we had to admit our guilt, and told us that we must refuse to protest against putin. then they would let us go. if we continue to persist, then we will receive up to three years in prison. we got two. we believe due in part to the great support from the americans. we are grateful for it. it is due to the fact that we had so much support all of those people, heads of state, that supported us and demanded putin release us. it is the kind of compromise that our government was prepared to go for. >> were you mistreated?

in prison? >> it is not that we were mistreated or not. the russian prison system is built on the gulags analogy. when gulags were first created, everything continues. the heritage. we lived through difficult times. but, compared to germany, in russia, in the concentration camps, the government doing really everything to prevent the society to realize what is going on. it is an old system. the humanuppressing spirit. it happens to everyone. nobody is singled out for this oppression. everybody is subject to it. right now we are speaking for human rights. for prisoners.

it is a very difficult task. a very ambitious, bold. we want to do it. as far as ability to reflect on the past and the position of our media, suchnd mass that stalin is not just a mistake. it is for some, a point of pride. and i was in prison, i watched how various programs, new monuments were opened honoring stalin's people of generation, but also young people, new pioneers are being raised and brought up. they are not there to comprehend. we want to go back to the old ways. and restore the soviet union. we have a heroic tradition. dissidence. which is all but forgotten now.

dissidence must be in our government. not the people who are doing everything possible to be forgotten. >> they see themselves in the proud tradition of others who suffered in the gulags. >> they are modest. >> speaking truth to power. >> absolutely. actorse individual bringing voices to the actors. they are bringing attention to people that no one would hear about if it weren't for the voice that they have built for themselves. the voice of moral authority they have received after spending two years in prison. they became prison rights activists while they were still in prison. they documented the violations happening in the penal colony. and she wrote an amazing open

is the mosti think powerful writing about russian prisons in years. >> what did you say? >> it was the voice of those people who sat with me in prison. because day after day, the situation was worsening. we don't have an ability to protest in female camps. in the men's camps they can notify the administration of violations. in the female, women are completely subjugated. they must work 16 hours a day. they are refused meals. personaldenied hygiene. they can be put outside. they can be kept outside 10-12 hours, even days. in isolation cameras, it is cold. women get sick because they have to spend time there. and we must remember that many

of them may already have serious diseases, such as aids and are not receiving proper treatment. i wrote about this. i felt a lot of pressure from the administration that did not like this kind of truth to be told. they tried to suppress any kind of truth from coming out. this truth does not leave the walls of the community. as soon as somebody tries to do this they are labeled as enemy. all of the other residents are turned against them. the administration is trying to make everyone else believe that whoever is speaking the truth, they will also, everybody will be denied whatever small benefit they used to have. >> you want to be the voice of those people as best you can in your writing or what you say. or how you protest.

>> yes. that is what we are trying to do right now. last time, when we were here, on the stage, we were the last words of theast prisoners, which have now been committed to serious terms. 2.5 to 4 years. in their case, there is no component other than political. there is no religious component like our case had. they just went out to protest and they were on the square. just random people. some of them, for the first time, attending a demonstration. now they are behind bars for two years. they will have to spend time in the colony. also, several people are expecting sentencing.

other participants of the square protest, they didn't do anything. the tragedy is they asked political prisoners are completely unknown. nobody knows those who are in colonies taking it upon themselves. the courage. i mean, it really takes a lot of courage. nobody is going to call you to a studio to talk about it. nobody's going to know about you. nobody will notice you if you protest. it may cost you your life. but they do it. they fight for themselves. we want to help them and give them legal aid. we want to publish their texts, pictures. everything that can help the world to learn that these people exist. and that they are unique, and wonderful. westernnalitstts, even

journalists, said that putin's olympic games, even though they were not bad, at the time when you were writing these words, in guard,ony, under somebody is fighting for improving the environment in the region where the games were taking place in sochi. this person is now convicted to 3 years all because he stood next to a fence. he is charged with vandalism. standingst send -- next to the fence. he is sentenced to three years. he was just standing there next to the fence. >> it is amazing. on the day the oil tycoon was released from prison, [indiscernible]

he gave it on the same day. >> does that mean they have some immunity because they are well known? khordokofsky is? do you have some protection because you have spoken out, and the worldwide fame that you have exist. what does it mean? she said it was open season on you in russia. >> yes. it is political open season. we were imprisoned. we were safer than we are now. as soon as we leave moscow, we are attacked by toxic liquid sprayed in our eyes. we are beaten. it happened several times. it will probably continue. because the internet is full of calls to spray us with acid and destroy us.

we are enemies of the people. there is a petition that demands to deprive us of russian citizenship because we disagree. we are trying to reform a corrupt political order. this desire is pro-russia, not against russia. in order, the propaganda is over the top. especially putin. since he annexed crimea. now propaganda is completely out of control. very old. disconnected with reality. in the crimea, during the period before the referendum, there were signs saying nazism.

sympols. >> the swastika was on the map of the united states. the billboard said the ukraine either goes towerds the united states or goes towards russia. that was the choice. >> do you fear for your life? >> anything can happen. i don't know. we can't guarantee anything. we live in a country that can do away with the person. without really thinking much about it. but we don't want to be connected by putin. hisis a person who built position based on the power of fear.

he supports his position based on the power of fear. he is using fear. any attempts to continue diffusing the variety of means, those attempts do not have any results. because we don't want to operate in this system. we want to create a new system. a system where the priority is freedom and truth. and they will prevail over fear. they will be the main thing for people. we will do it. i am certain of it. it is clear that these two years did not diminish our resolve. our political ideal remains the same. we indeed want to build a just and democratic societies together. the people who can create normal political systems. we will fight for this. >> how will you achieve it? >> we will work. >> putin has built a regime they -- that can only self-destruct.

eventually it will. what will be there when it self-destructs? he is destroying the fabric of society. the only help we have is mostly nadezhda and masha. they are the people who are the future or -- of russia. >> they are the biggest hope that russia has? >> because the crackdown, what is horrible about the political now,down in russia right it is based on fear. it is like abusing the everett -- fear over and over again. the longer it goes on, the worse things will be. so, people who stand up for some sort of values, who believe in the future of russia, are the only hope the country has. >> you have a heavy weight on your shoulder. >> let's not exaggerate.

we talked about the hatred that is directed towards us. us.incited towards but, if you come to any meeting of the opposition, 50,000 people protested. in march. russia andetween ukraine. you are in a different russia when you were there. you see the rush of the future already present in the people who are round two. people who love you. people who live for this freedom. who are prepared to fight for it again and again. these are regular people. many of them are not professional politicians are professional activist. there is completely regular

people. they come from other cities. this already exists parallel to whatever the government is doing. we are not the only ones. we are not alone. >> you are member the arab spring. it started in tunisia with one man standing up. it exploded in terms of a protest that swept across the arab world. is that the possibility here? >> i do not believe in the power of mass protest in russia now. the crackdown is too far gone. but i do believe in is that the regime is valid to self-destruct. self-destruct? >> we don't know. it is a black box. he is building a black box of a regime. we can know what is going on inside. it could take 20 years. we have no idea. something will be there when it is gone. >> you agree with that? >> yes. the regime that seems so indestructible now, it is based on the price of oil. and if something happens to the price of oil and it falls, then

it will be difficult for him to prop up financially people who support his regime. and so, over the past two years, while putin was at the helm, the nonoil related sector is in decline. in rapid decline. it seems that this industry will continue. it doesn't seem to be any desire on the part of the government to create any other sectors of the economy. everything is controlled by corporations that have connections with government. that are owned by putin. -- putin's cronies and buddies. it is an unhealthy situation. our market is not growing. it cannot grow under these circumstances. it is unstable.

putin likes instability. he always uses this word. when you are sitting on oil, it is unstable. >> when you had the opportunity to be released from prison, were you anxious to leave? or did you have concerns as to how it might be perceived? >> you see, we had no ability to have a choice. we couldn't agree or disagree. we were just, the rrussian law was an imperative. amnesty is coming. you are under the amnesty. your things are packed. the jail doors are open. i was put in a black sedan and transported out. so, just as the conviction we had no choice, we had to go to prison. the same with amnesty. just in reverse. we were let out. it is actually a very telling

example. i didn't need any political handouts. nadia had the same position. this amnesty was a political handout to us. we have 700,000 prisoners in the russian federation. amnesty that was presented through the media as a widespread amnesty. this was 1000 people relieved. 1000 people is nothing. absolutely nothing. it is profanity. we had no desire to participate in this. be a part of this. >> you have gotten to know them. explain them, this uncommon courage, where does it come from? they have said to me a number of times, we are regular people. we found ourselves. >> that was part of the reason i wanted to write the book.

how woman like this come to be. especially at the age of 22 years old and 23 years old, which is how old they were when they landed in prison. the book contains their personal stories. i think this is a miracle. it is like great art is a miracle. people who feel a personal responsibility for the fate of their country and are willing to go to any length to try to make the future better, that is a miracle. >> that is you. you feel a personal responsibility for the future of your country. and you are willing to go to any length to see it happen. go to prison. >> this is a citizen's position. it is not difficult. words that we pronounce, it is citizenship. plain citizenship. the country is unhappy where honesty is reviewed as as heroic.

this is a good quote, yes. this. good dissident said the first book came out, a soviet dissident who was such a pain in the neck for the authorities that they dragged him out of prison where he was, time, and they sent him on planes away because even though he had 10 years left, it was one of the first books that i read when i was in detention. it was very difficult for me those first days. the period of adaptation first few days there. that book helped me a great deal. it was a unique case. you can see that someone devoted

his entire life to this war that nobody sees. in facilities created to forget a person. i was inspired by that book. i realized that there were enough people out there who devoted their entire lives to freedom, and they exist. and we are now in a very similar situation. >> that is the world you live in. >> the world is wider. for the people connected with art, it is wider than the dissidents in particular. but it is the part that we can call the heart. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you. for having us over.

>> back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ >> ukrainian authorities claim russia planned attacks that killed more than 100 during

february protests. against then-president yanukovich. it was a dangerous time to be seen as a dissenter. one young graduate student chose to do just that. yulia marushevska became the face of the uprising when a video she made went viral. >> i am the ukrainian, b [inaudible] and i am in the central part of my city. i want you to know why thousands of people all over my country are on the streets. there is only one reason. we want to be free from dictatorship. >> logging more than 7 million views worldwide, i am pleased to have her here this evening. welcome. >> hi. it is an honor to be here. >> tell me how you got involved.

what were the circumstances that led you to say i have to be there? >> i was there all the time with my family and friends. i was doing everything i could. i was just an ordinary protester. i have practice as a teacher. at my university. i took my student from class to study the ukraine there, not in the classroom. when my grandfather asked me the same question, what are you doing there, and why are you there, it was hard for me to find an answer. i think for all the ukrainians, the answer was how can i not be there? you just talked to ruslana. >> yes. >> you see the strong belief. everybody have the same feeling.

we do. >> what is the goal? >> the goal? >> yes. >> my goal is to prosper, unite, modern ukraine. a home for everyone. for those who speak ukrainian. for those who speak russian. modern be european, a country, safe for everyone. >> do you respect russia's relationship to the ukraine? >> i respect russian people. i will never respect the humiliation of my country. what is done by the russian government right now. not talking to my government. not respecting us as a nation. as a country and as a state. >> are there misconceptions? >> people are trying to understand.

it is misinformation about ukraine. russian propaganda is ridiculous. like russian people are beaten on the street. that is ridiculous. or, people from the west of ukraine want to invade crimea. what i think, putin is trying to make the image of the ukraine as weak, not united country. but we are not. we are not weak. and we showed that. we won. we will yield, we will build this new democracy. >> did you ever fear they would crush the protest? >> of course. eveeryone. >> everyone.

we lived with a few. but many [indiscernible] i told the students at the university that the first time when you overcome your fear, it is an incredible experience. for us, that is a special moment. i have never had it done. i'm a student. everything was normal in my life. imagine, one moment, i am standing 10 meters more, there hundreds of black helmets. they are moving closer and closer. in that moment, i felt this fear. the body is saying, run, run away now, because that is dangerous.

your legs just move ahead. you know you are staying. you stay because here is your friend. here is your dad. here is your brother. here is your country. you stay and overcome. you were so scared. you are so afraid. but it exists, something bigger. that is so inspirational. i didn't want anyone to feel this fear. i wish everyone to know this feeling of something more and bigger than your own life, then -- than your own small world. >> you, how has this changed you? >> protest? >> going viral. >> they showed me the ukraine of my dreams. i grew up in a family,

very overprotective traditions. i always knew that i would spend my life in the ukraine. after this protest, i saw the people. i drewam -- dreamed to be with. i dreamed to help. that gives me, that gave me an even bigger belief in our prosperous future. >> good luck. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ >> the annual women in the world summit kicked off in new york. one political popstar took center stage. the ukrainian singer ruslana marushevska. she weathered frigid temperatures and sang for the protesters every night. sometimes for 10 hours at a

time. for her courageous stance in the face of violent attacks, she received the international women of courage award. from the u.s. department of state. i am pleased to have her here to talk about the ukraine and her life. welcome. >> thank you. for those amazing words. you give me power. >> you had power when the protest came. what drove you, the motion, the moment? >> i can explain. i had experience after the revolution, which happened in 2004. a lot of people ask me, how do you think, do we have any changes? [indiscernible] a lot of guys.

a lot of guys, when we watch year inwas also 1 ukrainian parliament, i watched this from inside the parliament. of course, we lost our power. of our orange revolution. we lost that we change. >> why did you lose it? because of corruption? >> yes. these guys were wrong for many things. it is a long time to explain here, now. just believe my words. me, how doople ask

you think, do we have a revolution again? i said no. i don't think so. i was wrong. it was not my biggest reason. we had the wrong message. yabnukovic.om but, i think i felt i needed to leave everything and go. also, ask everybody, join me. go. that we wantovic to live like that. we don't want to go back. we don't want to join russia. it is not about russian people. you have to understand the difference. we understand that putin changes

foropr -- price of gas ukraine all the time. he is a terrorist for the energy source. we understand, we want to go to europe. this is our mentality. let's join. let's show our power. i asked people every day, every night. >> to come join you? >> exactly. we started with students. with the students, it was an amazing peace protest with good messages. the ukraine is europe. ukraine is europe. give us a chance to live better. we saw a scene.

it was like, switch on the light, and everybody in the world will see how many people here during the night. >> did you meet senator mccain? >> the first time, i told him to go to the stage. thevite him to thst -- stage for a statement. mccain was the first great politician to join us in support. it was important for us, and everybody was happy. >> tell me what you fear and what you hope. >> my fear if you and other people in the world will recognize my country for that

picture. i don't like it. it was just a few days, and a lot of people were killed. i like when people recognize our social movement. if you join us, we will show you our light of freedom. you will help us to show truth. we have a problem with the anti-ukrainian propaganda. it is not just misinformation from putin. putin destroy the image of the ukraine. which is why i'm so worried. i will do anything to -- >> you want people to understand what about ukraine? >> we choose peace. we want peace. this is our ideology of our country.

ukraine. we don't want to have war. it is a plan of putin. important.st -- most three main words. peace, truth, country. don't destroy my country. it's my message to putin. don't destroy my country. you don't have any reason. why you do that? i mean, i asked putin, why you do that? for your power, for your money. please stop. >> is it too late for crimea? >> no, no, no. no, no. that example to the world, putin change rules of security. we can stop him now.

crimea.t just about >> you told me last night at dinner that you need an election. and you need a new president. you want to have a strong government elected by the people that can be the symbol of the new ukraine. yes? >> yes. good question. putin has 2 months to destroy the ukraine. we have elections now. disappeared.kovic we were surprised about that. nobody understands what happened.

>> did you want him to go? >> no. [indiscernible] now, my thought against putin, but also, we want to have legal president, the new one. we have technically a government now. a new one. but, we need an election. putin will try to destroy the election. >> who should be the new president of ukraine? >> it is interesting question. very interesting question. i can say right now we don't have a real leader. i don't need to do that. but i am personally waiting for a new leader for the ukraine. now, we have elections. we need to have elections. the new one. it doesn't matter. we need it. but, nobody is for me.

sorry. i am waiting for power guys. >> could it be a woman? >> we will see. it doesn't matter. >> do you want to be in politics? yourself? >> no. my task is music. i'm a musician. i'm single. i'm pianist. i am a professional conductor. >> you went to school for those things. >> i can do everything with my music. i can bring a lot of energy. and i can help my country with music more. >> what is your own mission? your mission. >> i will try to propose europe join us for our social movement.

we called it light of freedom. it is very important. it is more than just these words. i will organize projects. everybody, join us for truth, for peace, for independence. we choose democracy. let's help ukraine. we can stop putin. we can stop a new empire. >> what you think his goal is? >> i think he wants to show us he is the leader. the first one in the world. he has power, nobody can stop him. but, he is wrong. you know why? power comes from underground. people, power. i believe that.

i don't believe in putin. or his power. >> if he invades the ukraine? the ukrainians will fight back? >> yes, of course. of course. you know why? we have power. that is enough for us. >> power is enough. >> yes, power is enough. i believe [indiscernible] we will see one day. >> what you want from the west? and the u.s.? most important, sanctions. of course. as long as possible, as big as possible. don't make money with putin. stop business with him. it is money for war. it is bad money. stop making money with putin. >> stop dealing with them?

>> yes. >> stop. >> exactly. >> don't buy things. >> yes. even russia, proud of something like that. >> have you been to washington? >> of course. >> who did you meet with? >> with biden, with michelle obama, with mccain, with murphy. a lot of great politicians and people who support and understand what is going on. it is not the problem with the ukraine. it is a problem for all of us. i am happy to work with these people and understand everybody tries to stop this. new war from putin. >> what you think of [indiscernible] do you think she is part of the

ukraine future? >> she is from old times. you know what i mean? i am not sure that she is from the future. she is from the past. >> you need somebody from the future? >> yes. exactly. >> you were on stage for 10 hours. 10 hours. you begged the police not to shoot. >> i saying 500 times our national anthem. >> you sang it 500 tuim -- times. >> yes. >> you were worried the police might shoot. yes? >> i knew that. somebody told me, leave or we will killed you. >> many, many threats.

many threats. >> yes. exactly. also, when i was on the stage, my friend told me, snipers are looking for you. be careful. on stage right now. leave the stage now. i said, no. i had a dangerous message. also, i ask for sanctions for putin. and putin's team. it is dangerous to say that. but i understand why i do that. i do that for my country. i am never afraid. >> never afraid. >> never afraid. believe me. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> a pleasure to see you again. >> me too. me too. ♪

. live from pier 3 in san

third-party cannot see what you >> live from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we cover the global technology and media companies that are reshaping our world. i'm emily chang. dropbox launches chapter two with a new photo app and a new board member, condoleezza rice.