>> from our studios in new york, this is "charlie rose." >> saad mohseni is here. he is the chairman and ceo of the moby group. one of the largest media companies in afghanistan. moby houses the country's most popular television channel and

approximately 15 million daily viewers. last year it covered the first afghanistan presidential debate to include all major candidates. saad mohseni believes the proliferation of media in the past 12 years is afghanistan's most precious achievement. he is looking to bring this entrepreneurship to the country's including iran, and iraq. i'm pleased to have him them back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> iran is up and running. >> yes. we are in the middle east now. >> you were not trained as a media entrepreneur. you were a banker. when afghanistan changed, when they threw out the taliban, use opportunity. with one little radio station. >> we were lucky. it was more of an accidental business. one thing led to another.

lo and behold we have 20 companies. >> and partners like rupert murdoch. >> he is a minority shareholder in a company. >> let's talk about the election. >> a success, i think. >> 7 million people. when they were threatened. one third of them were women. many people did not believe it was possible. >> 60% participation rate. higher than yours. >> of course. we are less than 50. >> it was a bad day. it was snowing in parts of the country. it was raining. leading up to the election it was a war zone. buildings were getting attacked every day. suicide attacks. we lost two good friends. it was an extraordinary courage to see people line up to vote. >> now we have a runoff. >> we will see.

>> do you have a feeling we'll go one way or the other? >> we have three of the most prominent candidates are all phd's, forward thinking. they are all western educated. we have three good candidates, two of whom are leading with 42% and 47% each. they have only counted 10% of the votes. we will see if someone will get enough. >> i am confused by this. how long does it take? >> we will have the final results in the first round on the seventh of may. >> do you think the change will happen now? >> the trends are emerging. >> still having the leading number of votes. >> it seems like it now.

it is early to speculate. he will probably be leading. how much will he lead by? one of the hopes is that we have a coalition government formed. we don't go into a second round. >> how would that take place? >> it happen in 2009. karzai was leading. >> they thought it would be corrupt. >> he had his reasons. the constitution allows for that to happen. >> what is your judgment on karzai? >> he has squandered opportunities for this country, for afghanistan. he has ruined a lot of good relationships, like your country. >> he has ruined a lot of good relationships, including your country. history will be good to him. an absolute terms, the country has changed dramatically prefer people like us who have been privy to so much more he could've made a huge difference to the country's economy, to its

structure. those opportunities were squandered. he will have read it for the smooth political transition. he did not take sides. he has been fairly neutral. he helped every candidate. he was very inclusive. >> what is his future? >> i think he wants -- it is difficult to walk away from power. he wants to be of use. he may work on a peace deal with the taliban. i don't know. >> tell the story of when you were at the society, richard holbrook was there, and you were backstage. karzai was there. you were not there. karzai new that tom preston, he was a friend of yours. he was going to introduce karzai.

>> that is right. he says this is tom preston. he is a friend of saad mohseni. he goes nuts. that is not a patriot. we wanted to find out as to why the taliban, in terms of their operations, why did they have a support base in the country? the reason was because the government was so corrupt. the taliban had reemerged. we did stories on that. he labeled me as pro-taliban. >> how much of the country supports the taliban? >> less than 10%. we get a survey of 4000 people face-to-face across the country. less than 10% of the population. they do not have a base inside the country. >> are they paid? who makes up the taliban? >> religious students have been brainwashed.

there is no shortage of poor, impoverished young men living on both sides of the border in pakistan, getting funding from different groups. >> karzai would not sign a security agreement. >> yes. >> at the same time both candidates leading will support a security agreement that will have nato troops remaining in afghanistan. >> of the 11 candidates, every single one of them said they would sign the agreement including the fundamentalist candidates. the support for international troops is at 75%. afghanistan is a strange country. we do not like foreigners. >> you kick them out at every turn. >> on this occasion they realize they need support from the international community. karzai was not engaging. that has been costly for him. >> what is the relation between afghanistan and china? >> it is not strong. it is almost nonexistent. they have invested in the

mining. >> that is what i thought. >> they are not even that serious about it. they haven't started work on it. they have secured the contract. it is a huge copper mine. they have been nothing since. they are close to the pakistanis. they are not going to do anything rash. ironically, according to our sources, when he went to china to see what they felt about engagement to the security agreement. the chinese said do it. make the deal. >> because? >> it will stabilize afghanistan. putin indicated that they would support that. not officially. >> what is the future for afghanistan? >> it is a country that is exceptionally young. 60%.

the second youngest country on the planet after uganda. >> why is that? >> a postwar phenomenon. people have lots of kids. we lost a million people during the soviet occupation. the population has gone up substantially. we had a forum earlier, i was discussing the changes. 6 million people have access to the internet. most people get the internet the a mobile device. a third of our internet users use facebook. >> wow. how has the life of women changed? >> it is going to take a long time. what has changed is education. the literacy rate has gone up substantially since 2001. we are looking at 35% in the next decade, 65%.

it is the quickest change in terms of educating the population, and a third of our students are women. >> wasn't the fear of all of them that the taliban returned it would be ripped down? >> can they actually capture major towns? i doubt that. >> what did the americans accomplished? >> rescuing afghanistan. we were staring at the abyss. a population that had been completely destroyed. no infrastructure. no education. after the taliban came in. >> it progressively got worse. for that reason the afghans remain completely committed to international engagement. they are appreciative of what

the community has done, hence the high poll rating of the forces. 75%. >> wow. do you think americans have a perception of what the mission in afghanistan is? >> americans have said we don't want to be involved in anything. two wars are enough. if they look back in terms of what has been achieved and how the afghans have changed, they should take pride in what the u.s. has achieved. afghanistan is not iraq. we have to be clear. >> how are they different? >> we are not going to go through another civil war. secondly, antiforeign sentiment.

the iraqis, how they feel towards americans is obvious. anti-american sentiment in iraq. we don't have that in afghanistan. the other thing, this new generation of afghans emerge within the political establishment are very progressive. they are forward thinking. >> is a tribal society question >> it is. the urban-rural is almost 50-50. 50% of the population is in urban centers. that changes the dynamics. >> you are afghan australian? >> yes. >> are you one to spend more time there? what is your sentiment? you are an international businessman. the beginning of your fortune took place in afghanistan. you have a vested interest in the country. are you going to be more and deeper involved?

you have enormous influence. >> there are things we are very committed to. a moderate afghanistan. a moderate yemen. >> who represents moderation? >> a lot of people. we are very lucky. >> can he get past -- am i right or wrong? >> you are right. because of his association. both candidates had votes across the country. we are not that divided. >> you are happy with either. it represents for you a strong afghan central government. in a moderate government. >> a less centralized system, they're going to put us on the right track again. we lost focus over the last few years.

we can refocus on our priorities. we just had the political transition. we have security transition. >> end of 2014. >> and then we have an economic transition. which is reliant on international community participating. >> you are my afghan barometer in terms of by necessity, the pulse of what is happening there. i have never seen you more optimistic. i knew there was a time you were worried. it was not long ago. is it because karzai is leaving in the election looks like it is going to choose one of two options that you feel like are better? >> we are going to have the opportunity once again to go

back to the rest of the world and say we appreciate your help. we are grateful for what you have done. for the loss of life, for the billions of dollars you spent. let's work together again. >> what about pakistan? >> pakistan is a problem not because of afghanistan, domestically what is going on. >> the afghan war would have been different if pakistan did not provide a safe haven. that is what every military leader will tell you. >> no group can survive without assistance. for pakistan, the taliban are a serious domestic problem. they have to face up to the fact that they have to eradicate this group that wishes to drag both

countries down this black hole. the population of pakistan is set to grow to 400 million by 2015. the fourth largest country. the population of afghanistan is set to grow up to 100 million. >> the 16th largest country in the world. >> it is a serious threat to global. >> that is the biggest concern you have. >> polio is a major problem. we are working with the gates foundation to eradicate polio both countries. polio has reappeared in the arab, in syria. it has pakistani strength. it is not just a question of radicals, they are spreading other things. this is one of the concerns we have. if the area remains radical it

will impact in the entire region. >> do think syria will be an indictment and the legacy barack obama? >> yes. a huge opportunity was squandered. what you do with these groups? starting from scratch is not going to be possible. a lot of people are asking this question. a valid question. assad is more palatable than a super al qaeda group. >> what happened to malah umar? >> he is somewhere in pakistan. >> you assume he knew about bin laden? [indiscernible]

>> she knows the region well. >> i was surprisingly, what is the right word, not of one note about karzai. she seemed to give him some latitude. >> all of us feel that with karzai going we are starting to feel nostalgic. >> of course you are. [laughter] >> he wasn't that bad. >> it is great to see optimism. it is great that the war in afghanistan saved afghanistan. >> yes. for which we have to thank your people and your government. it was a good war. >> and the brave men and women who went there. thank you. >> thank you.

>> back in a moment, stay with us. >> rick levin is here. he stepped down after 10 years as president of yale. he recieved an honorary doctorate. the citation said you stand among the great presidents of yale's history. he becomes the ceo of coursera. it offers massive online open classes, or moocs. you have to be proud of your service. >> we made a lot of progress.

>> is what you are proud of different than what i cited? the global expansion? >> if i had to pick two things those are the ones. we made a big difference working to make the city much stronger, and we opened yale to the world. >> you didn't have a lot of management experience. >> i was chairman of the economics club. [laughter] >> bart giomannio had none. he after meeting you said he could be president of yale. what made him say that? >> i don't know. i had a number of mentors who saw potential. >> what you think they saw? passion? knowledge? >> i think probably a precocious

maturity as a young man and an ability to summarize a situation and find a solution to a complicated interpersonal situation and make something happen. >> there is a lot to be said about that. some people can look at it with great intelligence and look at something never quite see an essence of the core, here is the issue, and here is how we can answer it. >> that is right. >> that is a real skill. >> combination of analytical ability and psychological insight. >> almost political in situ. understanding. >> understanding people's motivations. yes, politics is the blend of that. but, you have to understand

where people are coming from, to understand the root. >> were you surprised when these members of the boards of trustees gave you an honorary degree. >> i was totally shocked. i burst into tears. i was moved. >> you love the place. >> i do. it is a great institution. i gave it my heart and soul. >> you could have gone to a board or got a government job. maybe been secretary of treasury as far as i know. you could've done a lot of things. >> true. >> and you run an online education company. >> it is a fantastic job. i like running things. the most important is it is so much an extension of what i have tried to do to take yell to the world. this is an opportunity to take 108 of the latest educational institutions and teach the

planet. >> let's do the landscape. we talk about moocs. you tried to experiment with online education. there is a checkered past. >> there was a time of instrumentation and learning. when we started in 2000 with this, stanford and oxford as partners, we thought our market was our own alumni. we narrow cast over it. the bandwidth wasn't there. videos were jerking around. it had that problem. we didn't have the right model for making it work. we didn't have a high degree of interactivity.

you watched a lecturer give a lecture, and maybe they were visuals. that was it. then, the next thing we did was open yale courses, videos of 42 of our best lecture courses, put out for free. they were great. >> they were free. >> they were free. the material from the course, they were no quizzes or exercises. we have the greater bandwidth. we can support lots of people. taking quizzes, getting feedback. having professors look at the data to understand where students are having a hard time. it is a constant feedback loop. it is terrific. and, the scale. we have had 7 million people.

>> separate it. how are they different? >> they are all different. those are the three essential involved in this mooc space. they are many things online. there are online courses for substantial tuition dollars for some time now. these three are trying to get to a wide-open public putting courses out there for free. our approach is similar. [indiscernible] we have about three times as many partners and three times the audience. it is a worthy effort. we are competing. one of the features we are

opening to our students, we are developing interfaces that will allow faculty to add features. i think it is good there is competition. i have studied innovative industries before i became president of yale. competition is good for innovation. the product will get better. i think that edx and coursera have a similar mission. we are not a university. it is a platform that serves university. >> backed by venture capital. >> yes. the key lesson here is, if your

the key lesson here is, if -- bob just won the nobel prize. he authored a course started in february. 160,000 people signed up. 85,000 started the course. the course is just wrapping up. they are going to be over 10,000 who take the final exam to complete the course. there will be 20,000 altogether who have gone through the work, done the material. 20,000 students will have taken his class. that is way over double the number of students he has taught in his 30 years. >> part of the history of online education as people sign up and they start the course and then they drop out. >> but it is free. why not? >> you have no investment. >> the stuff about completion

rates being low, but we have learned is that people who complete the first assignment, 44% of them finished. equal number of people take it. >> online education will change the world. >> it is giving opportunity to people. getting people better jobs. we have a woman in bangladesh. she was a product of an abusive relationship with her husband. she escaped from her situation. a friend of hers and herself decided to start a bakery. she went online and took an accounting course, marketing course, how to run a small business course. she is running a successful bakery and credits coursera. >> they gave her independence. >> they gave her a life.

a man in africa couldn't get a good job. he took an accounting course. there is clearly a place in the employment market to upgrade skills. then we have courses like modern poetry that people say is the best education they've ever had. they are lifelong learners. >> i would sign up for the and a nano second. >> how'd you do that? >> there are 650 courses. >> do we owe it to kahn? >> he should have the medium can be used effectively. >> it is great to have you here. i'm enormously interested. it is an empowerment.

that is what is important. >> that is right. it is going to get people opportunities. >> it shows what you can do with former president. we will be back in a minute. thank you. stay with us. ♪

>> katty kay and claire shipman are back with a new book, "the confidence code." katty kay is the anchor of "abc news america." i am pleased to have them on this program whenever they want to come. let me talk about this. what is "the confidence code?" >> we started writing this book because we would interview women across america. we came across this self-doubt. they would talk to us about how

they were just lucky to be in the right place at the right time. were they really deserving of their promotion. it was something about confidence we wanted to investigate. the book is an analysis of what confidence is. where it comes from. >> he went on a search to find if confidence made it different? >> first, whether there was a confidence gap. women often do feel less confident than then. we were surprised by some of the data. one of the studies we found, women will apply for promotion when they believe they have 100% of the qualifications for a job. men will apply at 60%. men and women take the same test.

they will score the same on a science and math test. women will imagine they have done much worse than they really have. men usually estimate they have done better. we found all sorts of interesting data that there is this gap. we decided, let's find out where confidence comes from. >> a lot of people, when you ask what it is, people confuse confidence with self-esteem. self-esteem is a feeling you have value in the world. moral quality. you are a good person. confidence, this is what we analyze. quality that is so important but slightly enigmatic. confidence is believed you can succeed at something. it is different from

self-esteem. [laughter] >> i know. here is what i am impressed by. you look at the studies, you talk to narrow scientists. this is not just a couple of highly successful women writing about what they think confidences. this is a lot of looking at raw data and scientific analysis. >> thank you. it was actually -- >> a lot of fun. enormously frustrating. we did not know where this journey was going to take us. we thought let's check out the science, let's see whether it is genetic. >> did they confirm more than your imagination? >> we thought it was genetic. we had no idea that confidence would turn out to be something you might be born with. we found out there are real differences, in the way men and women think. in the way we use our brains. differences you can actually see on scans that affect our confidence levels.

>> what affects you? >> we went on this trip investigating confidence in rats. who knew there was something like a confident rat. confidence in monkeys. people are trying to hone in on the genes. there is not one confidence gene. there are a cluster of genes that neurologist think are associated with confidence. we actually did our own genetic testing to see whether we had those. >> you found out that you did. >> we didn't. >> compared to other women? >> in general. >> genes that affect your serotonin level, oxytocin level. we thought katty would have a more confident, nation. i wasn't sure about my cell. i have often felt a lack of

confidence. we have a short straw. >> when it comes to a genetic predisposition, we are [inaudible] this is the other part of the equation. this is what is exciting not just for men but for women. you are born with a concrete highway. you build on the path. those are the choices that you make in life. the choices that claire and i have made to build our confidence. while it is part genetic it is volitional. >> what is your confidence level as a parent? >> my level is high as a parent. >> mine is probably less high.

>> women tend to be more confident as parents, more confident at home. >> society believes it therefore they believe it. >> there is part of our confidence gap that has to do with society's values, and stereotypes, and sitting around a table as the only woman. it affects you. >> what did you find from athletics? women basketball players. >> that was incredible. we went to watch the mystics in washington. i thought watching them, of course these woman are confident. it is extraordinary. you sit with them afterwards, and yes they are confident to some extent, but it started talking, comparing about the men. it can be hard to just put a

wall up and get over it quickly. >> they lack confidence or something else? >> i do think there is a difference in something that we are doing to ourselves, compared to what many men do to themselves. we carry criticism with us for a lot longer. we let it knock us off course. while there are things that society does to us, there are things women are doing. we overthink things. that is partly in our brain. our brains are not wired for confidence. we are permanently analyzing things. john seemed cross with me. my boss seemed irritated. we carried it for days and days. you laugh. >> this is the one thing women seize on. ruminating, the negative soundtrack that goes.

women do that constantly. that kills confidence. it keeps you from acting. i think one of the many breakthroughs we had was a professor that helped us define confidence as the stuff that turns thoughts into action. that made it so clear for us in terms of what is going on as women. women will sit and think. we missed the opportunity to act. >> the importance of confidence. >> some of that is nurtured. children in school are treated slightly differently. from the young, girls are given this ideal they should be good girls. disciplined, not open to conversations, not run wild. and they didn't, and then they carry on doing that. we encourage perfectionism in our girls. >> there's a great quote.

if life for one long grade school, women would rule the world. >> grade school. >> we are very good at listening to the rules, being quiet, conscientious, worrying about color within the lines. girls are rewarded from that. we internalize that at something we value. we take it through college. our girls are superstars academically. getting into college. getting out, that is not how the world works. >> women don't perform as well. things that are rewarded in the professional space are being able to be political. promote yourself. to be confident about seizing opportunities and rocking the boat a little bit. >> can i tell you how many confident woman i know, the confidence is huge.

to the point where you wonder if they can back it up. [laughter] >> not all women are lacking in confidence. there are over confident women. there are men who say what about us. men who were under confident. >> that's right. there is this. christine lagarde, one of my favorite women in the world. [indiscernible] i just interviewed her last week. she said to you, there are moments when i have to go deep inside myself and pull my strings, confidence, history, experience and all of the rest of it to assert a point. christine lagarde. a woman that many think would make a great president of france because she has been finance minister, she ran a law firm. she has done it all.

>> she is broken barriers. here is the difference. this is something i learned. all along the way, you're going to have moments where things make you nervous, you have to summon your confidence. the question is, do you let that stop you from taking the next step. that is the critical issue. >> she said the lehman brothers had been lehman sisters we would not have had the problems. quite she tells a great story. >> the notion that the world will be a better place if more women were ruling the world because they would bring a different set of values. >> that is what is critical about this. there women you know who are so confident.

maybe they could be at the next level. even the most powerful women we found are sometimes holding themselves back. we agree. we need more women at the top. >> we have sheryl sandberg who says do i deserve to be here? >> she said that to us. going to meeting sometimes i feel like a fraud. i am sure some women do sometimes feel like sheryl sandberg, like a fraud. [indiscernible] >> in the world of theater there are people who say i feel like i

am a fraud, do i belong here. the data is here to believe that it is true. many women lack the confidence that men have rightly or wrongly. the data is there. but also, a lot of people i can't imagine not having the kind of confidence you have. you could have the reservation that cheryl might have. a lot of men think i'm a fraud. >> but they don't let them stop. >> they don't realize. >> we all feel that to some extent. women are more prone to ruminate on it and let it stop us from acting. the other point you are making is the good news in our book. we have found out that confidence can be learned. >> how do you learn it? >> it is work. you can't think it. there is no way to have

complements pouring in. >> you can't will confidence into your body. you can't say i will myself to run a mile. >> you risk and you fail. you risk and you succeed. you work, and it is not processed over and over again. it builds up the experience. it lets you know and take that shot. that was one of the basketball players. she had a horrible first season. she spent months perfecting one shot. even now, if she hesitates, she can tell herself i know i'm going to make it because i have made the shot hundreds of times. >> visualize making the shot. >> you know this because you work hard at what you do.

a lot of building confidence is what psychologists call mastering. your repeat it. you don't let hurdles stop you. >> i know you and how much the idea of going to the south of france for vacation, how many weeks off you took, and all of that. [laughter] you spent a lot of time with your family. you can just see how much you relish doing that. does that -- what does that do to confidence? very supportive family and committed life to family. >> for me, my family life is an

area where i feel confident. it then translates into other areas. it gives me a safety net. >> where have you not had enough confidence? or you didn't do what you should have done. was their moment you should've reached for? why aren't you the host of good morning america? >> i realize at a certain point -- i work part time now for abc. >> because you want to do other things? >> i like writing. i like having time with my kids. i made a conscious decision. [laughter] jay decided to work for the government. now we are both broke. that is another story. but, i will say, i've realized recently i did an analysis.

i looked at this inkling that i talk less than the guys on political shows when i do this week for example. i never want to fear being the good girl. sure enough, overall, 30% less. i talked 30% less. i thought, it is somebody else's turn. >> one study we came across that you will like. [indiscernible] we interviewed a psychologist at the university of milan. it looks like a rubik's cube. answer these questions. the women came out worse than the men. what was happening is women weren't answering half of the questions. he said you actually have to answer the questions. you can skip it. when they had to, they did just as well as the men. that is how we are holding

ourselves back. we think we can't do it. >> when you look at all of this, does it apply beyond -- what is the role of mentors and people who can help give you a sense of your destiny? >> that is very important for women. what is interesting, marie wilson who used to run the white house project told us that all it takes, women are not -- she had this great anecdote. a man will wake up and look in the mirror and naturally see a senator. women will never be so presumptuous. women never think about moving into politics. all it takes, is one person saying to them you can do it.

what we have found is that the best role mentors can play is giving women a push. a direct push or a challenge to take a risk. not being supportive or listening we're telling somebody that they are great. >> all those people that i know who are constantly saying me, me, me, and whatever opportunity, rather than making themselves better at what they do. you see what i mean? don't you know those people. >> yes. constantly pushing. just do your job well, to be great, you have to work hard constantly. to know that is not confidence or a lack of confidence. it is recognition that achievement comes because of

inspiration and perspiration. >> yes. confidence will come through working hard. particularly working hard at something you thought was out of your reach. >> and mastery. >> for me, i can read the news and television every evening. it doesn't test my confidence. but, i had no idea if i could run a business. the idea is slightly terrifying. i will never know i can do it or not unless i try. >> you point to run a business. what business? >> i have no idea. >> are you unhappy? >> no.

it doesn't challenge my confidence in the way that you need to go beyond your comfort zone. >> try extreme sports. >> she does. >> to challenge my confidence. >> there is something elemental about confidence and energy to move toward things. it is not always about success. there is something akin to the notion of flow. you need the confidence. it is the engine that gets you moving. >> it is in a sense to believe in yourself, and consulate believe that there is no impediment to you being able to do most things. >> you may not always succeed. you can try.

that is why i use the example of asking for the pay rise. it can be as simple as somebody interesting in the room who you would like to talk to. you feel nervous about it. for a lot of people, -- >> mr. shy. [laughter] >> congratulations. >> thank you. ♪

>> live from pier three in san francisco, welcome to the late edition of "bloomberg west." i am emily chang. shares of the twitter of china are gaining. we are live with the chairman. and willie brown is here to talk about the raging debate over income inequality. first, a check of the top headlines. sap has reported small gains.