♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> john mccain is here. he has been a republican senator for arizona since 1987. he has been a strident critic of

the administration's ukraine policy advocating tougher measures against russia. he returned from a trip to the baltic states and moldova. vice president joe biden is in ukraine and spoke earlier today. >> we call on russia to stop supporting men hiding behind masks and unmarked uniforms sowing unrest in eastern ukraine. we have been clear. that more provocative behavior by russia will lead to more costs and to greater isolation. >> the pentagon announced it would send 600 troops to the baltic states for training exercises. the u.s. has pledged $50 million to ukraine. president obama is in japan on the first leg of his asian tour. i am pleased to have john mccain back at the table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie.

thanks for having me back. >> i did not mention you were the nominee of your party. >> thank you for not mentioning it. [laughter] >> was it a bad experience? >> all politicians have lines. you know that. after i lost, i slept like a baby. andep 2 hours and wake up cry. >> so you just got back. where were you? >> we were in moldova and the baltics. in moldova, they are very, very nervous because moldova is not part of nato. trans-nistria has 1400 russian troops there. they have been there for years. and the question is is what does vladimir putin do now? does he continue to foment

unrest in the east? and it is hard for the government to function. or does he go across the south and take odessa, which is important to him, and then up to moldova? and the other, of course, is that he just continues to foment discontent and uprising and the little green men, and it makes it very difficult for this new government to function. and how difficult is it for them to have free and fair elections with the little green men running all over the place in eastern ukraine? >> so how do you stop him? >> let me tell you how far off base i think this administration is. they said they would not give them defensive weapons. they said they would give them meals ready to eat. they would not even fly them in

on u.s. aircraft. they had to use trucks on u.s. military aircraft. they had to use trucks because they do not want to provoke vladimir putin. i mean, it's crazy. haven't we figured him out yet? isn't this the guy that says the worst events of the 20th century was the breakup of the soviet union? isn't this the guy that continues to thumb his nose at us, whether it be snowden or these activities in eastern ukraine or other places in the world? so the first thing, charlie, is understand vladimir putin for what he is and act accordingly. the same way ronald reagan understood brezhnev. >> or ronald reagan understood gorbachev. >> yes, and gorbachev. >> here is the question for me, though. i suspect the people in the white house understand putin. the question is not

understanding him. the question is what are you prepared to do to stop him? that's where policy can differ. >> but first you have to understand him. they keep pushing the reset button, charlie. tell vladimir that when i am reelected, i will be more flexible. >> that was a line about medvedev. >> tell vladimir i will be more flexible. there is nothing that vladimir would like to hear more. what have we done in light of absorption of crimea into russia. we have sanctioned 11 people and one bank. do you think that when vladimir putin sees that as a result of what he did that that somehow it's a deterrent? of course not. >> i do want to get at this.

what would john mccain as president be doing at this moment? when he marched into crimea, would you have said, get your troops out of crimea or we will actin a way -- in a way that will punish you? >> i will do a long series of steps ranging from helping become energy independent. it probably takes a couple three years. in the meantime, you have got to plan for it. there are other ways that we can do to help them. lithuania has just, by getting energy from sweden and offshore natural gas establishment, they're able to do it. we can do it if we want to. second, make it clear to vladimir putin that we will provide these people with weapons with which to defend themselves. if vladimir putin moves further into ukraine from eastern ukraine, i would at least give them the ability to defend themselves. if vladimir putin moves further, we should at least give them

weapons to defend themselves. >> what would you give them? >> putin's constellation is, what is the cost for my taking further action -- putin's calculation is, what is the cost for my taking further action? so far it has been none. >> -- to restore russia to greatness without necessarily acquiring everything that was part of the warsaw pact. is he rational? >> it seems to me that we work more closely with the nato members. we moved forward -- >> isn't the president trying to do that? >> i do not see any real indication of it. if you refuse to fly mre's in because it is provocative, i do not think they are doing a hell of a lot. >> you do not worry about provoking the vladimir putin. >> does vladimir putin need to be provoked? it's crazy. the only thing that vladimir putin understands is peace through strength. peace through strength.

while we are reducing -- pardon me? >> acquisitions through strength. putin believes he uses his proximity geographically and troops on the border -- >> i am not saying it is easy. i would not keep saying, do not worry we will not have american boots on the ground. i would let him figure it out. i would not keep saying that. he has got to understand that there are all kinds of repercussions. we are the most powerful nation in the world by any measurement. russia is a gas station masquerading as a country. and so for us to get, embark on short-term and long-term programs to make sure that vladimir putin knows that this kind of adventurism, there is a price board sooner or later. the vice president just said, you should not be doing that. or what, mr. vice president? what?

more sanctions? 11 more people, another bank? >> john mccain, or what? but deeper sanctions like we had with respect to iran? >> military exercises. troop positions. >> applying weaponry to the ukrainians? what kinds of weapons? >> why shouldn't they defend themselves? first of all, i would give them light weapons. and anti-tank weapons and i would probably give them anti- air weapons so they can defend. if putin moves in no across the south, there is nothing to stop him. so why not say, we're going to give these people the ability to defend themselves? when russia invaded afghanistan, you recall, we started flowing weapons in and drove the russians out. is that it is exact -- is that an exact parallel? when ronald reagan said we will have cruise missiles in europe and you may recall, there are

hundreds of thousands of people demonstrating against it. he understood peace through strength. that is what we have to do. it's so frustrating, honestly, to talk to these people -- >> people, meeting at the white house? >> no. in moldova, in the baltics, eastern europe. putin is putting all kinds of pressure on the baltics now, but moldova particularly. they are extremely nervous because they do not have the protection of article v of the north atlantic treaty. >> if ukraine had been part of nato, then we would have been committed by treaty. >> we would have been. to be honest with you, if we didn't view it -- an attack on one is an attack on all, that is the end of nato. frankly i am not sure what this president would have done if

ukraine had been part of nato. >> so what is it you think is his philosophy? cleary -- >> putin? >> no, obama. >> the president. >> what you think he sees as his endgame here? >> i do not think the president believes in american exceptionalism. he won the nomination by voting against going to war in iraq. he came to the presidency on the pledge that we would get out of all of these wars. >> you mean, he won the presidency or the nomination? >> he won the nomination because of his vote against, but once he came to the presidency, he wanted to get out. the tide of war is receding. we will be out by 2017. every time he announced a mild surge, he also announced we're leaving. >> don't the american people support that? >> the american people need to be led. >> don't they support -- doesn't polling say we want to get out

of iraq and afghanistan? had public support, that policy. >> absolutely. and the public supported the policy after vietnam. we lost 55,000 young men in the vietnam war, a very large number. but americans one, need to be led. and two, they need to understand what is at stake, and this president does not believe in american exceptionalism. >> what do you mean by american exceptionalism? >> we are the exceptional nation. the 20th century was the american century. i hope the 21st century century will be as well. we lead. right now you and i know the europeans are not going to impose any real meaningful sanctions on putin, because of the energy issue. but the president should step forward and say, look, we are going to do this. if you do business with these

banks, you will not do business with us. in other words, as firm, strong message to vladimir putin that we are not going to sit by and watch him restore the russian empire. >> -- the european allies, you have to pay a price, if you do not follow us you will pay the consequences, i.e., in terms of your own trade policy and your own relationship from an economic standpoint with united states, the largest economy in the world? and a market for your products. >> exactly. and it is incumbent, with the technology and things that are happening in the united states as compared with 10 years ago, i am not sure would be five years before we could get some of the l&g over to them. by the way, xl pipeline. >> what is going to happen on the keystone pipeline? >> smart people tell me that after the elections, he is going to turn it down.

>> turn it down? >> turn it down. yeah. he told senator barroso of wyoming that he was going to make a decision before the end of the year. but a strategy to counter putin's one advantage -- the gas station. and that will be the end of vladimir putin and russian empire. that is what we can do, charlie. and it is not world war iii. >> do there what we did with respect to iran? >> yeah. >> economic muscle? in this case, energy becomes the principal thing. not only do you have sanctions against russia, but you provide the energy these countries are worried about because they're not going to get it from russia. >> yes. and i really believe that right now, i'm probably being repetitious, i am sitting in putin's seat in moscow in the kremlin and i've seen what the

response has been so far. you cannot help but be encouraged. >> let me take you down the road. if that does not work. if someone said to me at this table, the russians are tough. look we survived leningrad, you know? so don't think you can freeze us to death. do not think you can start us to death. you cannot. we have been there before. >> we would not be trying to do that. >> tell me where you go if sanctions do not work. >> depends on what he does. if he moves forward and- - in the baltics, which are members of nato. >> the issue here is ukraine. >> yeah. ukraine, i would be giving, making sure they got into the eu. i would negotiate their imf loan. i would provide them with defensive weapons. i would stand up for them. i cannot tell you, charlie, most americans do not understand how much it means to these people when we speak up for them.

i once in burma had three guys, 2 of them 22 years in prison, and they came out and they said, thank you, senator mccain, you spoke up for us while we were in prison. these are guys with 22 years in prison? and it meant a lot to them. they had the radios. by the way, vladimir putin and russia -- this is very important, charlie -- right now they have a total corner on the market a propaganda into eastern ukraine and other parts of ukraine. and they are literally removing any television stations that might have a different viewpoint. it is a wash with russian propaganda. we have to get into the business of radio free europe and use new technologies that we have, twitter, facebook all of these. right now, putin is doing a good

job of brainwashing these people in eastern ukraine. >> this is what michael gordon wrote. "the abilities of the russian military's has displayed is not only important to the drama in ukraine, they also have huge implications for the security of moldova, georgia and the central european nations that are members of nato." michael gordon of "the new york times." >> he is one of the most highly expected writers. --one of the most highly respected writers. even if it is "the new york times." a joke. it's true what he is saying, that they will go as far if they get a free ride. >> this is another argument. "the tiger of quasi-religious nationalism which putin has been riding may now take control. that would make it hard for putin to stop in this conflict where rational -- would tell him

to stop." >> david's right. again, he is calculating the cost/benefit. if he goes into moldova and nothing happened to him and takes this -- where they've got 1400 russian troops just move in, and he got off scott free, then he will be encouraged, particularly the baltics. there are two areas the russians feel strongly about. the one is the baltics and the other is ukraine. they are going to do -- if they didn't away with it -- what is necessary. >> peter baker said "the prevailing view and the west wing as well mr. putin seems to be enjoying the goal of success, he will us cover how much economic harm he has brought on this country. mr. obama noted the -- fading of the russian stock market." >> yes, their economy is hurting

somewhat. this is foolish. putin's approval and russia has skyrocketed. he's the tough leader. don't worry, let this guy does member nations because over time, he will fail. what kind of logic is that? >> let me turn to another area. no, no, but but this is where it is related -- but this is where it is related to this. this is where you see the president. more people say what you try to argue. more and more people tell me that they really missed an opportunity several years ago, which you believe and you are good for. where was syria today in your judgment, giving you credit for basically saying we would not be here if we had done more to arm the rebels? the general is not there -- general interest is not there anymore.

right? >> this is a perfect example of the presidency. he did not want to help these people and give them the weapons they needed. and they were waiting until 5000 hezbollah. a step up of arms iranian. the revolutionary guard. it was his plane on the nose on your face that it was going to happen. we watched this thing turn into a regional conflict. extremist groups in syria and iraq. if you have looked at iraq lately, it is in chaos. so we are now, i'm reading, providing more weapons to the free syrian army, but i'm telling you, these -- big canisters with all kinds of shrapnel in them that are just killing people indiscriminately. >> also reports of the use of chemical weapons. >> would it surprise you if he was using chlorine gas, which is not technically part of the agreement? i believe that history will show that the president's decision on

syria not to strike was a seminal moment that reverberated throughout the world. that's why i can tell you i've talked to many foreign leaders who they would say that was really a seminal moment, and they cannot rely on us. >> that is the point. they said you true the red line and you let somebody crossed the red line, then your credibility -- and the saudis and others made it clear. that is why the president went over to talk to -- >> to make the decision you made and go over to talk to king abdulla. what are you going to say? i'm sorry, king, i knew that you were ready to strike but we did not even tell you. it's sad. >> what is at the core of this, your harsh judgment of the president? do you think he is naive. >> i believe the president does not believe that america is an

exceptional nation. if america is -- does not lead, others willlead. the most powerful, rich nation in the world can carry out a lot of measures to assert our leadership in the world. and we can do that. and i'm convinced that we can. but people like vladimir putin, he sanctioned me. you know that. >> i know. when we sanctioned some of his friends, he sanctioned you. >> my spring break in siberia was canceled. by the way, that shows how out of touch they are. didn't vladimir putin understand that that was the best thing that could ever happen to me? you know? so, we have to lead. and again, it means alliances. it means exercises. it means bolstering nato. it means being very nervous

about what china is doing in the east china sea. >> the president is over there now. >> i think you're going to have to make it very clear to china that the fundamental principle of world affairs is freedom of navigation of other world's oceans. and we cannot let them take it over. >> but the question always has to be -- what are we prepared to do when the rubber meets the ground? >> i agree. what it also means is that if you are prepared, then they calculate, well, this probably is not worth it. the philippines right now. the philippines have one coast guard boat. that's all. so they cannot challenge china. but more interestingly, is the japanese now, because of their lack of confidence in us are interpreting the constitution and a much more -- >> much more nationalistic and a lot of things, looking at whether they should have a

strong military. if they want a nuclear bomb, as you know, -- >> charlie, you ask very good questions and very challenging ones. there are no good options. what options do we have that are least bad and can actually change the world's environment today? and. that is what we have to realize in syria, tell me a good option and syria. we let it go to hell in a handbag. >> what would you do in syria? >> i would still give them arms and weapons and train them. listen, if syria continues in the way it is going, you have a regional conflict. there are one million refugees in lebanon. you have been to lebanon. i've been to lebanon. it is a small country. one million refugees? >> how many do you think they have in jordan?

>> roughly that amount. >> they can do nothing but destabilize. >> we have to shore up our alliances, take steps to convince the bad people in this world, and there is more than one, that we will be prepared to work with our allies to make sure there is a very heavy price if they do things that are in gross violation of an international alliance. by taking crimea, there was a budapest agreement that russia recognized the fact that crimea was part of ukraine. so it is a blatant violation -- >> when khrushchev was. you are good friends with henry kissinger. he had a very interesting program here, and talked about russia and knows putin well. and i believe has had conversations since the crisis began. >> henry -- >> he is your friend. >> henry. i've never known a man of the intellect of henry kissinger. >> fair enough. so what does he say?

he seems to recognize that russia has some historic connection with ukraine. and you have to recognize that. >> as much as i admire henry, you can go back in the history of every one of those countries. moldova was under five different empires -- austria, ottoman. so the back and forth there, they have a claim -- the mexicans have a claim to texas. i mean, come on. really, when you think about it. so it is not -- >> have they talk to -- didn't rick perry talk about seceding from the united states? >> if we get into the business of saying because there is a large russian speaking or whatever. >> henry kissinger is one of the great in a foreign policy of our time. recognizes that russia has some special connection to ukraine.

and you have to say, so their argument is the following -- others have made this item in. >> i read henry's piece. >> he came here the night before and told me what he was going to say. basically, see somehow that ukraine could be say to the russians, we recognize you have an interest here. and that people speak russian in certain parts of ukraine, but ukraine has to have certain kinds of neutrality and to be a bridge between the west and the east. >> can't they decide what they want themselves? what about estonia, which is 40% russian speaking citizens? don't the russians have a claim to that? look, i went back and looked at adolf hitler's speech from the hotel balcony in vienna after they took over austria. and look at what vladimir putin says. you find it eerily similar. >> secretary clinton spoke to this idea and had to clarify what she meant, which was not so much comparing him to hitler but saying that people -- >> i will compare him. >> i know you are comparing.

>> these are most interesting times, charlie. and i do want to work with the president. >> it is hard to work with -- >> my friend, when you go to a refugee camp in jordan in cities thousands of children running around and the woman who is with me said, do you see these children here? they are going to take revenge on those people that they think refuse to help them. the repercussions of this is going to go on for decades. >> last thing. your friend john kerry. it looks like all the effort he put into trying to make deals in the middle east is not going to work, especially israeli-palestinian. >> no. nor is the so-called geneva conference, which was crazy or ludicrous, because assad winning is not going to negotiate his departure from power in syria. >> so john should not have done this?

it was a fool's errand? >> of course it was a fool's errand. assad is winning. he is going to go to geneva and sit down and say, ok, i will leave power in six months or a year and leave the scene. he is not. >> he has already announced is going to run for reelection. >> absolutely. and so, that and the israeli-palestinian. i hate to tell you this, but i am not optimistic about the iranian negotiations. i am not optimisitic. in fact, i'm very pessimistic. >> why? >> because i do not think the iranians are willing to give up the right to enrich, and they have continued to have the centrifuges spin. i think they are, one of their strategies may be get right next to the nuclear weapon, get right next to it so that in a matter of few weeks you can build it.

i am not optimistic. by the way, these are the same people that are flying in weapons to assad. the same people that sent the iranian revolutionary guard into syria. >> you favor denying their ambassador? >> that was a no-brainer. >> finally this. are republicans going to win control of the senate in 2016? >> i do not know. you and i in 2010 were having a little chat and i said, we're going to take the senate. so it depends on. i think it depends on candidates matter and campaigns matter. >> thank you for coming. pleasure seeing you. >> thanks, charlie. >> senator john mccain from arizona. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ >> ken lerer and his son ben are here. ken is the cofounder of "the huffington post." they started a capital venture fund. the strategy was use ben's connections to find the best ideas using ken's connections in the finance world. ben knew the people with the ideas and ken knew the people with the money.

the company has invested in betaworks. i am pleased to have both of them at this table for the first time. ken and i are part of a lunch group and we see each other that way as well. i want to tell people the story. because it is one of the dumbest things i have done recently in my life. one day you and i were walking into lunch, and you had just invested a lot of money in facebook. and i remember it was $16 a share. >> 19. >> 19. ok. it didn't go to 16? and i thought, damn, i should go and do exactly what he has done because he knows it so much better. >> i think it is at 60 now. it got to $70. i cannot remember whose idea it was.

i am trying to remember. >> tell me what it was like growing up with this guy as your father? >> well, terrible. you know, we always, he's -- i think only in the last few years have i really been able to appreciate how lucky i was. you know, you sort of, it's your dad, we were close, but now we work together i have a different perspective. and i think there was a lot that i sort of got to soak up just being around the dinner table. that has driven the way i think about business, which is that forever. now that i work with him, the questions that he asked me about business are actually not business related. they are about. they are what makes me happy. he is really focused on me enjoying life and not business questions. and i think it has helped shape the way i think about --going to work and ultimately drives me to

make sure that i am making the right decisions for my family and not for the company. >> did you want to be a venture capitalist because he was? >> i do not necessarily want to be a venture capitalist at all. >> what did you want to be? >> i like building my company more than i like investing. i think investing. i like doing it because i get to work with him. and with the team. ultimately, it keeps me seeing things. when he started company and you are building a business, you think you are the center of the universe and your company is the center. and getting to invest give me access to all of these amazing people where i get to step outside the vacuum and see all these other businesses that make me smarter. we are a mens media company. focused on the intersection of media and commerce. our belief is that, from a business model perspective, our belief is that today digital

provides an amazing opportunity to, if you think about print or you think about radio, if you think about television or outdoor, traditional media businesses, the transaction. does not happen in those mediums. and digital is the first place where content is consumed and someone can make a purchase. our belief is that media and commerce will come together in a very real way. so we have built a series of media businesses and media brands that help guys figure out how to spend their time and money. and ultimately the model is not -- to not just provide content but to figure out what products these guys might buy. >> this has got to be fun for you. >> it is great fun. >> having your son there in being able to see him and talk about business.

>> and my daughter is in the business, too. >> and learn from him. >> here's the thing. he is smarter than me seriously. and my daughter is smarter than me. but i have more experience than them. and i've learned that sometimes experience trumps brains. and so i'm able to look at an issue and go back in the files in my brain, and i have seen a lot, for better or worse, and i'm able to say, here is what is going to happen. and that is kind of what i bring to the table. but i cannot keep up with him in a deep, in a big dive on a business issue about his company or about a lot of the companies that we back. that is his job. >> what is your core competence? >> well, i am not sure i have one, but i'm pretty good at looking at a complicated set of issues and pouring it into a funnel. and i am pretty good at coming out with a nugget.

that is what i have always done. and i am pretty good at that. i have no idea why. >> the nugget is the essence of -- and how to mobilize the idea? >> the nugget is, here's the bottom line. here is what it is all about. and here is what we should do. >> take me then to "huffington post." >> i like to invest and work on things that are -- things i can understand. >> characteristic of warren buffett. >> he is a good model. >> kerry campaign, the drudge report is killing kerry about the vietnam war. and i watched it with great pain. and said to myself, "why does the drudge report the only guy around?" this makes no sense. i learned a long time ago that if one person can do this, two people can do this.

that was the essence of "the huffington post." so it was very, very simple. >> if there is a drudge report, there can be something else? >> exactly. that is exactly why we started "the huffington post." to be a counter to the drudge. then it grew. period, the end. >> i know drudge as well. he visited the "cbs this morning" staff. i'm trying to lure him in terms of going public. what all of us marvel at at the headlines. he has an instinct to write a headline that just captures the the zeitgeist of the moment vis-a-vis people who read his blog. >> bible tell you about that. -- i will tell you about that.

they teach you at journalism school at trying out -- i will tell you about that. they teach you at journalism school, and they tell you what the subject is at the top. the key with drugs, and the key at "the huffington post," i would go into the 13th paragraph of "the new york times" and i would find a headline and put it at the top. it is not with a teacher at columbia journalism school, but it made for great digital content. >> how did you know how to do that? >> i guess based on what i was doing previously. i had a nap for it. so that is what i did at "the huffington post." up until obama won. then i pulled back. >> "buzzfeed." >> "buzzfeed" grew out of "the huffington post." one of our partners was a very smart guy. not having a great time, being bored, wanting to try a whole bunch of tech projects and we did not want him to leave.

so i said to him, start your own company and we will back you. and that is what he did. it is now a great big company. bigger than "huffington post." >> wow. way bigger. and so you came out and did you want to start a business because, you lived in the business environment? it was what it was talked about. politics, technology, business, media, right? >> yes. not so much technology growing up. i honestly did not think a whole lot about what i wanted to do. and i went and worked at a boutique hotel company for two years out of college, and we had the idea for thrill list, because i wished that there was a better city guide for me. my mother read the same city guide. i wanted to build it for myself. i guess, when i sort of went to my dad and my mom and said, hey,

i have this idea, they were as supportive as could be and said, "do it." why not? >> there is an interesting thing, too -- the other day they ran how many media companies where the sun -- the son and daughter, the son of murdoch, the son of ralph roberts, all, you know. >> there is something about. i talked to david carr about that piece. there is something about media companies where it can be quite personal. and i can understand how the family would want to continue in that company. i get that. >> the grahams as well. brian roberts started laying cable line. his father, don graham started

with the same thing. it's an interesting thing. i remember my father was a merchant. he would like nothing better than if i had said, i am coming back and work in the company business. there was no way for me because i was in love with media. >> i have a ball working with benjamin and izzie. >> and to have both of them there. fun. >> heaven. >> so tell me how you guys see the future? here we are with so much going on. we know, and i just talked with larry page at ted conference, and just to talk to him you get excited about what is happening in in terms of where all of the things that google is doing. same thing if you talk to facebook. same thing if you talk to amazon, who i recently did a "60 minutes" piece about.

these are big companies. there are many people? do look at instagram and you look at so many companies. it is the most exciting time for entrepreneurship. >> it is extraordinary. my day is spent working with everybody under 30. with entrepreneurs that come in and say, i have a great idea. then it is enormous fun to give them some money where they can go pursue their idea. >> you are right what percentage of the time?

>> what's "right " mean? >> it is a sustainable business model that will make money. >> within the fund, we are doing quite well. we probably invest in one in 25 in companies, one in 50 companies. we are very select. so far so good. >> the common denominator is what? the people. >> you sit across the table from somebody and you know. we sit across the table for so many people again and again that over time, hopefully, you get a better gut for knowing the person is going to figure it out. a lot of the ideas that people pitch are not great or maybe the market is not something we want -- >> more than your money, they need wisdom. >> so you shake hands with the person, look the person in the eye. you take a measurement of the person. then if you get past that you say, can this person pivot? because i've never seen an idea that starts at -- out at x and ends at x. it always ended some other letter. that is the real key. can the person pivot when they come up against a brick wall? >> has "the huffington post" changed?

>> it has changed a lot. i had a very small vision to produce an alternative to drudge. we then institute of articles which is a very good move, and we did sports and whatever else. then it was time to sell. any was a good sale. i have not been in touch with it at all, but it has gotten very big. and sometimes the biggest not allow you to be as focused as you can when you're small. >> it is also global. >> and they have a lot of verticals. and it is still a great property, but for me, it does not have the passionate ones had when i was doing politics there. but it is still incredibly successful. arianna has done a great job. >> why did you pick her? >> she and invited me to a gathering at her house which was

very out of character for me to say yes. kind of like coming here. but i did it. >> you did it for your son. >> i saw her moving and doing what she does and i said to myself, she's drudge. it was like that. >> those are insights you cannot -- you cannot teach those. what ever your life experience has been. and bill murray said an amazing thing to me, basically said, "you just have to be alive and alert." and that is how he is. you have to live your life. >> why i started "huffington post." i was talking to norman lear. i had retired. here is what you do, he said, "you set up an office. you talk to people.

ideas will come across your desk. grab one you love and do it." that was it. but it was great advice. >> what's influencing for both of you, i will start with you, ben. in terms of what is out there changing the world, obviously mobile is changing the world more than anything else, i assume. >> from my business, certainly. >> and the cloud has changed. >> for what we see, mobile. just the way all of us, how it changes all of our lives. it is just unbelievable. mobile probably the biggest trend we continue to invest into in the thing that we see the best ideas coming in around. everybody has to be mobile first. it is not the second screen anymore. it is where everything is happening. >> what would you say?

>> i would say that we are in a time just like 1981 to 1984. benjamin will not remember that time because i think he was born in 1981. so cable industry, distribution is done. pendulum swings back to content. all the cable networks were found between those years. they were all started by entrepreneurs. all sold to big media companies. all the distribution is done. it is all done. all of the social feed are built. content now is extremely interesting. it has to be mobile first, but it is content, content, content right now. it is very exciting. i love content. that is a great lace to invest. >> the architecture is there. it is just the content. >> the architecture is all there. >> facebook is the most interesting company in the world right now. >> google. >> google may be the most interesting. the tides are moving in the direction of facebook. as we see our businesses.

facebook has become far more effective marketing plan -- than google. >> i agree with both of you. i think google is the most interesting companies -- facebook -- >> i am much older than both of you. it is the idea that a lot of people it is said, young people, are looking elsewhere other than facebook. >> snapchat is an interesting company. there are a lot of interesting companies, but for the moment, facebook is it. that does not mean in four years from now they are going to be it, but right now they are. >> you put one billion, whatever

the number is. >> they only other most interesting company in the world. >> now what is happening? >> they really sit at the center of human communication. >> what you think of the internet of everything? this idea of nest? google bought nest. you have a few investment. >> we have a half a dozen investments. we are little guys. we have eight investments in the internet of things, and they are all doing well. it, too, it is obvious. it is inevitable. i work with michael milken a long time ago. and he taught me one great thing. he did not teach me by talking to me. i learned it by watching him. he looked at the trends and he invested in trends. and he invested in the obvious. that really has stuck with me. and it makes an enormous amount of sense.

>> the obvious was first the internet, per se, then it was search, and then it was social media. and then it was apps. >> mobile. >> and then the cloud came. so that you could do all kinds of things. >> when you look back on it, you are going to go, "all right. what is the big deal?" >> so you bought jackthreads.com. >> when we bought it was a very small men's retailer, clothing accessories. the reason why we thought it was an interesting buy, i discovered them because they were an advertiser on thrill list. favorite advertising because we had covered them editorially. big buyers, big spenders, exactly the core guy we are going for. it made a lot of sense because our users were lean forward. we were helping them to try to figure out how to spend their time and money. jack threads was the supply to the demand we were creating. i think we were naïve and said, we can get into commerce. we didn't know what that actually meant.

they were a live company and have done a pretty good job proving we can make our reader into a buyer by just understanding guys and what makes them tick. >> what you think of the twitter ipo? >> twitter is going through a hard time in the market. they have a long way to go to, they have a long way to go. the six-month lockup is up in three weeks. so the stock is going to be a roller coaster. and we will know better in the next year how the guys who are running it do. it is a spectacular service. whether it is going to be a massive service, i do not know yet. >> i think he would be enchanted by the political impact. >> i am enchanted by the political impact, that does not mean that -- >> you are going to invest in it. >> i am amazed everyday when i see what the impact it has in politics and government. and who's on it. and people talk through it all the time. i am amazed, amazed.

but they need to break out of that to people beyond that, to be a massive company. i think they probably will but it is not clear to me how. >> thank you. good to have you here. pleasure. >> thank you. ♪

>> live from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we cover the global technology and the future of business. i'm emily chang. facebook is saying the cfo is leaving later this year. the social network reports a 72% rise. we will have a lot more on facebook and a bit. apple takes on its critics to - who say th