>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> for two decades, hillary clinton has been among the nation's most respected and powerful public leaders. her four-year post as president obama's secretary of state elevated her profile on the global stage. she is widely expected to run

for president in 2016. "hard choices" is a memoir reflecting on her time as america's chief diplomat. it will be published on tuesday. joining me now is a group of political journalists who know hillary clinton and politics. joe klein, columnist for "time" magazine. his piece this week challenges the notion that clinton's path to the white house is certain. maggie haberman, a cnn political analyst and senior political reporter for "politico." john dickerson, political director at cbs news and "slate" magazine's chief political correspondent. i am pleased to have them here at this table. is this a book that serves her so she should not have gone out and done what bob gates did, try to give you a very smart and sharp and precise view of what it was like to be at a top post in the obama administration? >> i would rather she did what bob gates did. if i am one of her advisers, i would tell her to do exactly what you did which is you wrote a very careful, not particularly

revealing book that does have some very interesting moments. she mostly gets right up to the line of something interesting and then pulls back. there are couple of instances. she doesn't go into the great detail about how controversial they are. >> you would think that would be harmless for her to argue. it is about revelations about a friend of hers. >> someone she was very close with. >> you compare that to the way gates handled that very same business in his memoir which i have read. he is pretty -- he talks about the whole group being controversial but then he almost always agrees with the position on every aspect of afghanistan. >> the argument that you have more thing that you can use as tools offensively the military.

>> gates had nothing to lose. hillary clinton in this book -- i think the light reader would think she did a lot. she was on the plane for 87 days. she was always plugging away and it she is running for president and people are thinking about who can we put in a complicated world? whose hands can we put that? you get that from this book. >> one thing more you do get -- this was an interesting point because she talked about this a lot over the last year and a half. she contextualizes a lot of the postmortem of 2008 in gender terms. she talks about the preposterous charge of racism against bill clinton. those moments were interesting. >> it also brought out to me the fact that the wining and dining of her took longer than i

thought. >> she makes it very clear and says there were games being played to try to drag out the period where she was deciding. >> from a political standpoint, she cast herself as more hard-line, real politics advocate. >> she has been. gates makes it clear in his memoir that on the troop surge in afghanistan, he was in favor of 30,000 more and she stood with the general and said 40,000 more. that is the kind of thing i would be curious to hear her explanation. >> in the book, she says she was wrong about iraq. it she is a hawk on both syria and afghanistan and egypt as well then you wonder that is fascinating. what did you learn about being wrong about iraq?

how did you apply that to these other instances? you get none of it. >> i think she is underestimating the american public. i really think you don't have to go as far as gates but you have to go somewhere. her major problem, the major problem to the concept of inevitability is the fact that you can never get there. you are not inevitable. i don't mean she has to cry the way she did in new hampshire. i mean she has to present what she actually believes in detail. >> you don't get that here. >> you get certain things. this is an interesting moment. she said something to refuse to say despite all sorts of contortions from the media and pleadings from her supporters and advisers in 2008. she refused to call that vote a mistake. she said she got it wrong.

she says she wasn't doing it to be expedient. >> she also says like other senators, i got it wrong. i made a mistake. it took me a long time to admit it. >> many of us got it wrong. i still got it wrong. she says i was not doing this for something -- it was not a political gain. she explains that people equate mistake with weakness and that is part of the reason why she didn't want to do that. that is not going to satisfy a lot of people. >> another part of gates' memoir where he is in a meeting with her and one other traditional democrat with the president talking about the iraq surge. she says, my position on that -- i only took that position because it is political. >> the relationship is very

interesting. you remember that hearing where she grilled him. she is very tough on him. her explanation of the search is very unresolved. it becomes -- there is some writing on the book in syria where she becomes an ally with petraeus. that is fascinating but you don't really get it. >> he said complimentary things about her. >> i once asked petraeus whether there was any democrat who understood the way his mind worked. he said, aside from hillary? >> she does put herself in the hawkish side. benghazi. >> she talks about it for 34 pages. it is the longest chapter in the book. she offers little detail other than explaining where she was. she went home at one point. her home was retrofitted with gadgets.

she is very defensive/defiant. she says she talked about this and people are playing politics. this is all in advance of what will be potentially new testimony from her before the select committee. i don't think this chapter is going to do much to quell any of the criticism about how she performed her what she did. >> what is the criticism of her? >> she was either absentee or didn't take security warnings seriously enough. she says there were cables issued in her name. >> is the problem for republicans is that they think the obama administration used it as a political -- they changed the memos as a political document? they was worried about being characterized about not as tough against terrorism as they were. >> as she says in her words,

they were concerned -- the republicans argued the white house was concerned about a successful terror attack on president obama's watch. she defends susan rice who went out on the sunday shows and was the one who said those. she says i don't think it was my obligation to go on the sunday shows. >> it was mostly -- the truth about the benghazi operation is i don't know how many passports they stamped. it was a cia operation. >> she makes that point. >> those guys should be able to defend themselves. the security levels in a consulate anywhere in the world is so far below the secretary of state's pay grade that it is laughable. >> that is her point. >> i really like her defiance because at least she is showing a little moxie. >> it is probably the only real defining moment in the book.

>> is it politically wise for her to be so careful and not be sort of stand up and define herself? why am i so naïve about politics? [laughter] >> i think it is who she is. >> that is different than -- politically, she is very careful. >> personally, from the moment i met her 25 years ago or whatever, -- god, i'm old -- she has always been careful and nervous about the inner life of the family and all the things -- >> this book is a reflection of who she is rather than some calculated make sure you don't do any damage philosophy. >> in the book, she nevertheless expresses opinions which are on

the slightly riskier side. >> the cuban embargo. >> i don't think the cuban embargo one was that risky. i see that as the opposite. >> why didn't obama do more? >> it is tougher for him to actually do more than it is for her to take a position where the polling is switching in florida. >> he still should've done more. >> with respect to the campaign, you call this the beginning of the campaign. this is the first big moment in the 2016 campaign. why is she not inevitable? >> because she is a democrat. there are other living democrats that are going to contest her. i can think of three offhand from the left populist. brian schweitzer, the governor of montana. there is a great piece about him

in this issue of "time." elizabeth warren may do it and jim webb has held the door open. i have read his book. >> are these formidable challenges? >> we will see. if you are not giving the public what they want, than any challenger could be formidable. >> the question is whether in the rollout of hillary clinton -- you have the book launch and then she will go -- how long has she been out of the domestic politics? a pretty long time. >> how much did you learn from how good she got? she was a lousy candidate at first and starting in pennsylvania, she became a darn good candidate. >> starting in pennsylvania. >> that was a long time ago. the conversation on the grounds you are talking about which is the populist -- she has made

speeches. she talks about the 1% and the squeezing of the middle class. she's about to get back into it in a way she hasn't in many years. >> in the diane sawyer interview, she was asked to defend her speaking gig fees. she says when we left the white house, we were broke. she said we needed money for the mortgages on the houses. mortgages plural is not something she wanted to say. it hardened into conventional wisdom very quickly on twitter and all over blogs. the medium moves much faster. it is a very different scene and i don't know if they are ready for it. >> how would you characterize the relationship with the media? not good. because? >> because she apparently does not like the media and believes

she was objected to unfairness. i think -- >> in 2008? >> and beyond. way back to the 1992 presidential campaign. she has trouble with the attacks by her critics. >> same is true with president obama, she is a very serious policy monitor. when she is working on a policy or talking about a policy, when she rolled out her health care policy in the 2008 campaign, she didn't want to hear anything from us about the latest trivialities which is a good part of presidential politics. therefore, she resents it. >> the discussion often comes to the question of what she did as secretary of state. the first response always has been foreign policy comes from the white house.

at the same time, a good secretary of state recommends foreign policy decisions and recommends a direction. >> he was working closely with her and was staying very close to her during that time. he has taken the same position she is taking and taking the same positions as roberts gates was taking. to do that would've been hard. >> do you give her a pass? >> no. i long believed that this is the most closely held foreign policy of any administration since nixon and kissinger, only there is no kissinger. it has come out of barack obama's brain. it was hard for her to step out. one thing she did very well was the public diplomacy aspects of it. i was in pakistan with her and she was running it like a political campaign.

>> the outreach to women around the world. >> one of the argument she makes is when she frames foreign policy. a lot of her work was repair work and that is what she thinks she did which was improve america's relationship with countries, improving the pivot to asia. she takes credit for the pivot. this is where it is hard. where you talk about building multilateral institutions, that is not going to zing off the page to people but her argument is what you need to do to build conditions with china and the partners in asia is to contain china. that is a long discussion. that is what she argues she was a part of. >> we talked about the iraqi vote. mending fences with obama. >> that was the very early part of the book when she talks about the sit down.

i wanted much more in reading this. she talks about it is easy to forget how ugly that race was and how angry both her team and obama's team were at each other in terms of what had happened. that is why i thought her revisiting the race issue with significant. there is still a lot of obama supporters who do not believe it was prosperous. that was one of the few moments where my eyebrow went up as her taking a risk. >> at the end of that episode, she says he finally convinced me that i was the best person on the planet to hold a job. there is a little twinge on the decisions. there was a pattern in the book we are reading along and you think when are the events going to ratify what she believes. >> president obama wanted her because he didn't want her in the senate or because he believed she was the best

possible secretary of state? >> somewhere in between. >> it was a great political move. the book was very hot at that moment. he at that time was seeing himself in kind of lincolnian terms. >> she became someone who didn't have a disqualifying point. >> coming back to the things that were -- she slips things about how white house advisers were worrying about what she is doing. the lack of distance and separation between her and the president is pretty extraordinary given what we're used to seeing. >> this may be the biggest potential problem she has going forward as a candidate. she is running for a third term. look how it worked out for al gore.

>> she basically has two parallel tracks going where she has heard visors telling other democrats that her foreign policy is our foreign policy. she makes clear this is where i see the world and eventually the obama team will arrive where i am. they are doing this throughout. >> if you argue are the three or four issues facing america in terms of foreign policy -- let's say china, russia, middle east, and terrorism. are they? >> they are. i think she -- there is no cohesive vision from her in the book. >> there isn't one from him. >> there is. >> don't screw it up. >> that is a pretty good foreign policy. [laughter] i mean, you know, it is like the

hippocratic oath. first, do no harm. >> there might not be a second. >> she does gently wrestle with the dueling and conflicting elements of american foreign-policy. we have values. we support human rights. she says that is what we needed to do. in other instances, human rights cannot be totally driving the bus. egypt would be a perfect example. she wrestles with some of those things. after reading it, she comes down and says it is a very complicated world. we need to kind of work them out on a case-by-case basis which doesn't have a driving value. it is kind of an inbox. >> russia, she was off for the russian reset? >> it is interesting. the retrospective on this is that she was very critical of putin and skeptical of him.

she acknowledges she was the face of this policy. she writes about a memo that you sent obama right before she left where she says essentially -- it was long. the reset is over, let's not give in to them anymore. ultimately, that is with the president ended up. it took him several months and many more embarrassments about edward snowden and so forth. >> where was she during the bin laden raid? >> she says she was a very important actor in this. what is interesting about the speeches she had is that she coasts over biden who she says was very against this. she describes dramatically in one of the few dramatic tense moments how she laid out the case to obama and how various

members of his cabinet were in various positions. he was concerned about it. that is right. >> you remember after the 2008 campaign in the debate when they asked if they would move into pakistan if they had actual intelligence. barack obama said yes. they never do that. he tried to use that to clobber him and say that it was reckless. this was the moment where he follow through on what he said. >> here is the problem with her is a politician. she is great as a humanitarian. but, at that moment, her political instincts to knock him at the new guy as being naïve and so on overtook her common sense which would've been -- we are going to get him.

>> bill clinton has great political instincts, right? isn't he sitting there during every political decision in consultation? >> i am sure he is in consultation until she meets the enemy. her mouth, her gut, and our ears. >> when push comes to shove she is on her own? >> she is. the answer cannot be bill and i talked about this together and we agreed. she is out there on her own. >> something you said really struck me about how different the media is. i think the population is much different. i just wonder whether these classic baby boomers can relate to the new population. >> that is one of the themes in the book. she referred several times to a younger white house. she was clearly so bothered.

there is a get off my lawn quality to it where she talks about the younger white house aides. they were dismissive about things. it is a sort of a you are not respecting me and not respecting your elders. that was a big part of it. some of them at the time -- they thought he was dangerous and reckless. the ego thing -- he was overshadowing the white house. >> primarily with the president. it was also a very real difference with military about whether the negotiate with the taliban. holbrook was a very much favor of it. those five guys that were released were people his staff were trying to get released.

>> wait. where was she on that? >> she claims or at least there was a memo since the book claims she wanted a tougher deal. three instead of five. that is very much as of last week. >> it was reported in 2012 that she was concerned about a deal. >> it is her caution and hawkish. >> it occurs to me that no family has been at the center of the feeding frenzy part of the media more than the clintons. it is going back to whitewater. the primary in 1992. the opposition and the right wing conspiracy that she talks about is one thing. when you're at the center of the media feeding frenzy, that is no picnic. they have been in the center of that and now it is more feeding frenzy than not in the political

cycle. it has gotten worse and she has been at it longer. >> the most rock i ever saw her was after she was making a tour in late 1994. she was lambasted by average civilians. it was a day in seattle where they cursed her and spat on her. i don't think that day ever leaves her mind. this was a prohealth care rally. >> they spat on her? there was an anecdote after she made a reference about a candidate being assassinated in the 2008 primaries. the media machine went bananas.

she was crying in the back of a store. she was very rattled, the most rattled i know of her being. she said i think they think i am a monster. there is a part of her that is wounded. >> if you read the diane blair journals, there is a constant conversation she had with her friends. there was a constant push and pull. why it a criticizing me so much and then i don't care. she talks about the benefit of the 2008 campaign which taught her to deal with criticism. we don't see the evidence of that. it shows that this many years after her first days in the white house when she was saying the critics do not bother. they still do bother her. >> she wrote a version of a line to not let the critics get in

her head which was 11 years ago. >> huma abedin? >> she was very angry. michele bachmann was the one championing this. they were suggesting that her longtime aide, because she is muslim and her parents did not live here, that she is a muslim brotherhood plant. i don't recall hillary clinton talking about it at the time. she said she was privately furious. and very appreciative that senator mccain and president obama stood up for her. >> michele bachmann, she is a -- you can't take criticism from michele bachmann that seriously. >> or if you are writing a political book, you can point it out. >> did she miss the opportunity of creating a narrative for the

campaign? >> yes, she did. i don't think she knows what the narrative will be. >> she has to look into the future. >> she says campaigns are about the future and that is the end of the book which doesn't say what that means. >> it is really important in this democratic party that she figures out what her relationship is with wall street and big money. >> in terms of the reality of that and at the same time there is ongoing discussion today about america's role in the world. >> i would say she is created a second narrative. the first is going to be about the economy and the middle class. she said she wanted to get back to talk about health care and the middle-class but then barack obama pulled me in as secretary of state. the book ends as saying that she looks forward to talking about these issues.

she has to come up to the why for that. the second sentence is that she understands a complex world and can be with the 3 a.m. phone calls. >> don't we think she -- >> one of the things -- "the washington post" did a story where the reporters talked about a focus group in iowa. i take away was experience is what really makes her interesting. this is what harmed her last time. i think that second sentence is about that. >> take a look at this. this is an interview airing tonight. diane sawyer asked hillary clinton to the extent how her age could be a factor in the election of 2016. she will be 69 in november of 2016, the date of the election. >> age. >> isn't it great to be our age?

>> i am older than you are. >> nobody looking at us would ever believe that you would be 69 on election day. eight months younger than ronald reagan. age matters. >> it may depending on who the person is. my mother lived with us until she was 92. she was as active and involved and just curious and intellectually capable as people much younger than her. it is the individual. i don't think you should be counted in or written off based on age. >> mitch mcconnell said at one point at a conference that 2016 will be the return of the "golden girls." >> that was a very popular, long-running tv series. [laughter] >> she seems great. >> she was well prepped for that.

she did well. >> she talked about diane sawyer's age. >> you talked about bill clinton's political instincts. that was pretty fancy footwork. america, look at diane sawyer. age isn't what it used to be. the second thing is not taking the bait on mitch mcconnell. she moved on with humor. >> who is advising her? other than the president and chelsea? >> cheryl mills. >> he did not want her to run? why? >> cheryl mills is a realist and recognizes that a campaign will be miserable and unpleasant for everybody involved. she wants what is best for her but it is important to know that she doesn't say to everyone, that she hopes she doesn't do it. is not as if she is shying away and she will be involved.

she would not be a campaign manager but she will be involved. it is a small team. phillipe who has been with her forever. there was a smattering of other people. >> the karl rove question. does that put the rest what rove tried to do? >> no. i don't think it is going to end it because i don't know what the scope of records is going to be. john mccain put out tens of thousands of patients of health records because of his pow history. i think there are people for whom whatever she put out it will never be enough. >> the amazing thing to me about the rove business and several other things that happened in recent weeks is how much they are desperate, the republicans, are absolutely desperate to run against her as if they can

finally put the stake into the heart of clintonism. >> they're using the book for their own purposes. that is two things. she raises money in the way that ted kennedy used to raise money. they needed democratic person. attacking hillary and being on hillary clinton is a way to keep their supporters sending money. >> it will be interesting to see for public and to thought it will be an easy way to sell a book. there are certain grassroots that will always give a low dollar amount when they see her name. >> i think there has been an evolution on the way that people look at her. it had to do with her senate service. it had to do and she had views of her own. >> if the neoconservatives want

to come after her for being soft on foreign policy, she is not that soft. they are really passing their sell by date because people don't want to go into wars at this point. there are none that are worth fighting right now. >> her position on syria is interesting. she clearly -- a lot a people think because of the advice the president got from petraeus, hillary, and others that he ought to do more at that time. i think it is viewed now as almost -- from what i hear from foreign sources and people in the middle east think that he should have done more at that time. he is talking about doing more. it is a year and a half later when the terrorist forces on the ground have risen exponentially.

>> libya, she was in favor of. that didn't turn out so well. how quickly we forget our long track record of giving arms to haddid? >> she wanted a more orderly transition. >> she didn't want him to leave power right away. she was concerned about a destabilizing effect. >> you guys that cover her and know her and watched her over the years. what is it that recommends are the most as a human being and as a major political figure in the world? >> she is hip deep in the issue. she is on the plane. and the people and understand the complex and complexity of things.

we don't know is how far back and take you. you can get buried in context. do the executive thing. she would've preferred a riskier and declarative approach but we don't know enough for us to make an independent assessment of whether her policies and approaches means. >> this is a person who cares more about policy than politics. >> what about bill? >> bill cares about both equally. that is what you need. >> when we look back at barack obama, will the critique of him be the absence of experience? >> absolutely. >> i don't know if that is actually accurate. i think -- >> this is what is so fast in it because she ran the famous 3:00

a.m. phone calls. she didn't have a 3:00 a.m. phone call experience and now she does. gates said this president has known trouble making decisions and the call he made was the gutsiest one he has ever seen. that is the interesting thing. >> i think he has been more decisive. for more solid on foreign policy at this point than he has been on domestic policy. i do not believe that she would've gone for full-scale universal health care right out of the box. i think she would've had this other guy speaking in her ear and saying you should focus on the economy. >> they are issues he expressed when he was first in office. i think this is his personality and temperament.

>> the way he came down on the experience side in terms of politically and as a decision maker and being right. >> i don't think that is a fair critique. i do think it is a fair critique in his feelings with congress. given somebody who has serving in congress longer or been in the senate longer, then yes. i think that is one area. that is one of the few exceptions. >> they have conversations with the president and they say what you talk about? again they say he was just checking the box. the big question is let's say he had all these fantastic political conversations. could he still it overcome the opposition he had from a unified

party against him? we don't know. it would've been hard. >> what is the core of the opposition? >> to him? i think race is a part. it also has to do with -- the other party is run by talkshow hosts at this point. >> what is wrong with that? >> great to see you. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

>> sarah lewis is here. she has served on president obama's arts policy committee. she turns towards the concept of failure in her first book which is called "the rise." i am pleased to have sarah lewis at this table. welcome. your passion is art. >> it is. >> what led you from this and curating and the experiences you

have had to write about failure? >> so many things. one question i have always had is how incredible works happen. i started to notice when i was curating, there would be these back turned paintings. artists didn't want to show me. they were not going to burn those paintings either. they were critical for the works. i started to wonder about whether these paintings, these potentially failed works were not as critical for the creative process, but for the inventions and entrepreneurial feats we celebrate. the wanted to understand it in a way that was not a cliché. i really wanted to understand the dynamic on what can happen in someone when they find a sage.

a solid foundation to spark a rise. it is stories about these different individuals. >> you found this and discovered this. that failure has value at a moment in your life? or observation and experience. >> both. >> you seem like somebody who has never seen failure. >> it is both. it is not a memoir. i did have a detonation of experience in my life at a young age, a teenager, then let me see the fear of failure was often motivating me more than the desire of its success. it happened in high school. it was about an art competition i had. the failure taught me more about myself and that success. i wrote about that from application essay to college.

hid the essay from my college advisor and my parents because writing about failure at the time seemed like a risky proposition. over time -- >> the lack of self-confidence. >> i applied to college but then i started to notice that you find these moments where advantages are obtained from difficult circumstances. whether it is looking at martin luther king's transcript. >> what did you find? >> he received c's in public speaking. i noticed j.k. rowling had this experience. there are different individuals that experience it. >> michael jordan didn't make the basketball team when he was a freshman. >> artists, entrepreneurs all

have these stories. this book, after writing on contemporary artists for a long time, i think it was a way to explore it fully. >> abraham lincoln said men are greedy to publish their success on the record but mainly shy as to publishing the failures of men. >> abraham lincoln certainly was no stranger to failure. >> and self-introspection. >> exactly. the assessment of credit worthiness. his work before politics allowed him to come into this realm in how people assess credit. that was the only time people called it a failure. >> you don't use the word failure. you don't even use the word success. you like to use the word mastery. >> i do so for a few reasons.

failure is not a word that came to mind on the part of people i would interview. whether it is ben saunders, others. once you start to transform from that experience, you tend to call it something else. a learning experience. you develop resilience, etc. failure doesn't feel like the right word because it is so static. it doesn't suggest the dynamism. i also think that success is a word that i am changing my relationship to. i think of it as a term that is affixed to us. if we hit a benchmark that in other people's eyes meet their approval. the internal landscape. constantly closing that gap is what keeps us on that journey. >> are there differences between men and women? >> i was hoping to make

distinctions on the broad level. i did notice a few. women, i believe were often hard on themselves. that comes from insight and self-introspection. it was very hard to find women who acknowledged failure and went on to flourish. i think that has to do with how recently it has been the case that women have been expected to be a success. you cannot find the stories as readily. there are differences. >> i think it depends on what you define as failure. when you can define it as just a learning experience and nothing more. >> that is really what i do. the subtitle says the gift of failure. i am hoping for another word. this book becomes a biography of an idea that we lived through the same way one day is winter and the next day a spring.

>> you say you have the gift of being underestimated. who underestimates you? >> i think we are in a moment where -- >> we? >> as a society. in a moment where someone looks like me isn't necessarily expected to do what i am doing. people don't assume that i have gone to harvard and yale and i am writing books. i think because of that, i can't be underestimated. i kind of welcome that. it creates a certain fire in me. that is what contributes to my drive. >> a number of politicians say one of the gifts they have is that they were underestimated and that enabled them to be able to take advantage of their opponents. >> exactly. >> you mentioned this remarkable

academic pedigree. you are off to teach at harvard and do what else? >> i will be at a scholarship at harvard. i will finish a book. this book is looking at the myth and fictions about these racial categories that we now live through. it is looking specifically at the way in which frederick douglass had during the civil war a desire for us to be able to think through our vision and our progress as americans differently through the importance of what he called not just pictures but thought pictures. what is conjured in the imagination when something impacts us so greatly? it lets us live in the back door of rational thought and look at the world differently. that relates to race as well. there are a lot of pictures that

allows us to see these racial categories that we really used to divide ourselves. our commonalities are really evident. these racial images focused on the caucus during the 19th century. >> who is emanuel lee? >> that is my grandfather. it is a biblical name. he was a jazz musician and a painter. he inspired me. he spent his life doing those two things really. in large part because of what he was not able to do through his own education. he got expelled in the 11th grade for asking why african-americans were not in the history books. >> what is your deepest ambition that you are hesitant to tell

me? >> the deepest ambition is one that am not -- i wouldn't be doing my job here on this earth to live it out. it really is to ensure that we're looking at the arts not simply as a respite, but are always understanding the critical importance it has had for societal change. there is a deep national fracture. civil rights movement, for example. i am thinking about the impact of listening to the trumpet player which had on charles black, jr., who went to austin, texas to go to a dance and found himself so transfixed by the trumpet player. he knew at that moment there was

genius coming out of the horn. he knew segregation must be wrong and this man showed him that. charles black went on to be a lawyer for brown versus the board of education. that is my deepest ambition. to be able to spend my life championing the impact that the arts have for all of us. >> the book is called "the rise." it has lessons for all of us. agnus gund said "the rise" should be read not only by artists, but by people hoping to unearth his or her own capacity for discovery and creativity.

thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> live from pier 3 in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we focus on innovation, technology, and the future of business. i'm emily chang. a wave of protest is planned against ride app uber. 30,000 taxi and limo drivers are expected to take part in the rally in london, paris, and berlin. upset that they are not subject to the same rules they are. songwriters went before a subcommittee urging congress to update music royalty rules to include digital performances. witnesses told the panel that they are losing a lot of money due to the royalty rules were created in 1941.