>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> we begin this evening with the crisis in iraq. earlier this week, radical sunni militants of the islamic state of iraq and syria seized the cities of mosul and tikrit.

amid mass desertion from the iraqi army, it is feared they may move on baghdad. rock -- iraq's prime minister has declared a state of hasgency and the cleric called for iraqis to take up arms against the terrorist and encourage foreigners to take control of the northern city. obama addressed the crisis earlier today. >> will not be sending the u.s. troops back into combat. i've asked my national security team to repair a range of other options to help support iraq security and i will be reviewing the options in the days ahead. >> adjoined me now is michael gordon and dexter filkins and richard haass. i am pleased to have all of them here. abegin with richard haass for quick history lesson from how we

got from the surge in iraq to american participation to where we are now. >> we could have a chapter with the war is sell. saddam hussein's hand and we dismantled many of the institutions that provide security in iraq. that is one aim. the obama administration came in and the critique will be not what it did about what it did not do. not pushing harder for the residual force remaining in iraq to train the iraqis better. and not presses hard as we could have or should have to make a genuine national government. and thirdly the iraqis have their share. mr. al-maliki has ran a sectarian, narrow-based often corrupt government. when people do not fight for it, it should tell you something. it al-maliki is not their government but mr. al-maliki's government, for his cronies.

's it is mostly mr. al-maliki government and for his cronies. >> who are these insurgents was been so successful on the ground? >> it is a pretty amazing story. be, and syria used to leadership at least was al qaeda in iraq. movedday essentially have into syria. first they moved into syria where the rebellion there started. a bunch of guys who were part of al qaeda in iraq formed a front , pretty one of the big crazy groups also fighting in syria. they spend the border and the border between syria and iraq is pretty much gone. 300 miles of open desert. they are working both sides. , there was a twitter

feed, isis has a twitter feed -- yesterday, they have a photograph of a chechen fighter who was opening the door on one of the american captured humvees they had taken from the iraqi army. that kind of says it all. there are collection. there are a lot of foreigners fighting. >> who are they? >> they, from all over the world. from all over the world. >> who else is on the ground? >> what has enabled this whole conflict is first, maliki's sectarian policies and the war in syria. it is a black hole right in the middle of the middle east. among many things it has done is brought in an attractive foreigners from around the globe to fight there. you have probably something like

11,000 foreigners fighting in syria right now. a lot of them are iraqi shiites. from places like the united states, germany, from the u.k., from france. all of these people have passports and will come home one day. >> michael jordan joins us from washington. having said that, tell me what is at stake here? what are the consequences and significance of upcoming history? think the united states has clear security interest and how it turns out. it is not one of the situations where you can say it is a civil war and fight it out. >> the president said though -- that is what he says now. rocky's have been

raising the issue of airstrikes for months. it is what the president said. the reason we have stakes and is what dexter point, this group, the isis group which spans both sides of the borders has formed a sanctuary in a part of the world and could be a platform for terrorist attacks against western interests. let's not forget if iraq was to become a collapsed state, it is a major oil producer and has picked up a lot of slack in the fall of a production from iran because of sanctions and libya because of the turmoil. you've already seen the oil markets affected by this. it is a country notwithstanding the fact, 4400 american lives to build what iraq is today. i think there is an american stake in how it turns out. >> has it become the biggest crisis in the world today?

>> the iraq situation and the serial situation have merged together. the antagonist, is on both sides of the border and they have carved out and they do not recognize this border. american policy is being compartmentalized and people working syria and iraq and they are not the same people and not a common strategy. the problem is self is an endemic problem that embraces these two countries and threatens stabilities and all of the countries in the region. where are we in terms of the united states can do maybe having a common strategy? expand on that and others. >> one of the reasons of what it came about is what america has not done in syria. they left it to the opposition, the jihadist opposition.

the only real alternative. one thing we might want to do is reverse the policy. the president has hinted he might be willing to do it. and notbeen thinking acting. one would be to provide syria help. we could live with and work with wouldtheir target primarily be the outsider regime. it would primarily be this group, the ice a group that is so dangerous -- isis group that is so dangerous. we want to do more to help the kurds. they are the big beneficiaries of this. which hasd the city been involved for more than a decade. you have independent kurdish state and we want to see it secure. there is oil and political reasons. want to help them with maybe an understanding they do not expand their reach because we do not want to bring in turkey.

we want to help jordan. they are struggling with the and millions of refugees. to rethink our policy toward afghanistan. we learned a little bit of the risk. what happens when there is no u.s. presence in a state where there is pressure? the president said we would get all troops out by 2016. this a good example of the risk a you might want to re-sync. >> this is the thing everybody has worried about happening, crossing borders. >> look, stand back and look at the map. it is something close to a sectarian war. the iranian border all the way to the mediterranean. isis carried out car bombings. this is sucking in lebanon where 20% of the population are refugees. syria has imploded. jordan ishy in

getting more unstable by is a day. the iranians are helping to mobilize the shiite militia in iraq and fight the sunnis. the saudi's and turks are already in syria. i stayed for president obama, he has tried for both of his terms to get out of the region. and not to pay attention to it and he will have to reengage in a big way. agree that do you the president has to get reengaged or else? from understanding officials is the administration belatedly, but at this point, he has engaged to become their priority and they are focusing on it and promising some source the upcoming days. i believe that our reengaged. the question is, we need to see what they are prepared to do.

>> and what are their options in your judgment? you are a military affairs reporter. at itt looking analytically, i am not advocating a position -- >> i know. been there before with michael. >> i think there is a military side and political side. on the military side, as richard points out, -- >> robert ford? >> we could arm the syrian opposition toward increasing pressure on the al qaeda linked group from the outside. i think we need a stepped up military perspective advisory iraqi forces. the an argument can be made that air power could be helpful within certain constraints. obviously, if they are bringing american arms as dexter pointed we, we could stop that if

wanted to. that sort of thing. it is a complicated thing. you're to distinguish between mixed oh forces. it could be an element of strategy. that thereh richard has to be a political component to it which is if maliki can not be encouraged to form a more inclusive government with prominent sunnis, you are not going to have stability in iraq. i'm i slightly disagree because i do not know there's a lot of time to sort this out. and i think it is imperative to have some sort of strategy to act fast because the iraqis foreign minister raise the option of american drones last august and it's been almost a year that iraqis have been raising this. by maliki in may.

malik you raised it with the vice president biden. and now, the chickens have come home to roost and something has to be done. >> maliki came hat in hand for support. it is often in the wrong hands. he is not going to crate a national unity. you do not change political culture overnight. that is not going to happen. if that is a condition for serious american help, it is not going to help. it is moving faster on the ground in american policy. this government in iraq will survive only if he gets massive iranian help in the short run. the landhere it gets of the unbelievable. we are going to be essentially on the same side of the run -- iran helping the government on a nonexistent border. on the other side, we would be opposing iran.

>> by supporting iran and working together with iran, we are doing with our good friends the saudi's fear the most, the influence in the region. >> absolutely. i think what is going to happen in syria -- isis is the worst thing that has happened. try to knocking to down a side -- assad. i think, you know -- >> should we say it publicly? fort is interesting diplomacy. the moment may have, to have meetings with russia to basically say, we have to change . we have a common priority that isys does not win out or dominate. against iraq.ase

i and do heat off assad in exchange for focuss against isis. it may be a bridge too far but that is the conversation. >> exactly. >> if he gets it -- >> we may have reached a point. >> let me ask. what is worse, doing that are watching isis in power in baghdad? when access to oil? not a good answer. when it is all over 10 years , am now on and we look back lot of missed opportunities and theink a lot of -- if united states would have done all of these things years ago, i do not be we would be here today. there's a good chance we would

not be here today. we pulled out of iraq rather in a hurry before the political system was ready. >> we could have been better negotiators? clearly, you do not want it to happen. >> yeah. we do not engage we should have engaged. to the samepeaks point. do we have to look at syria differently now because isis is a bigger threat than anything we have? if we have to get in bed with a with- assad, we get in bed assad. >> i do not share that perspective. throughn flying arms airspace and that our personnel they're in is unlikely to change. given the atrocities in syria, i

do not think the americans will find it, will make an accommodation with assad. either supporting, i am more supportive of the administration's declaratory policy. i am skeptical of working with iran and iraq. what you run will do is mobilize shiites in support of the regime . they did before against american troops. the real danger there is that the sectarian militia is mobilizing and will turn, instead of a conflict between insurgent and the government of what dexterht be covered at "the new york times," the sectarian war. interventioniran could lead things down that path. states, and with the political and security

package that is sufficiently robust that it could be -- dissuade the government from cooperating to extensively with iran and going down the wrong path? >> what would that package look like? >> and not for me to say but the president -- >> i know. >> he say he will consider an airstrike and a pumped up advisory effort. they say it has to not purely be military but a political component. some degree would require replenishing the stop. it would have to be somebody helping the iraqis plan better operations. and we need to reclaim some of our -- in turn for doing any of these things or all of these things, we need to have sufficient influence with the government of iraq that the united states did what it did when they were there. you cannot appoint a visit guy,

he is to save terri or incompetent. this is the right guy. -- you cannot appoint this guy, he is too sectarian or incompetent. we cannot get it all back. we need to have some of a backward this project is not going to work. things. nobody is talking about getting into bed with assad. that is not -- >> integer medically changing your stated opinion that he has to go. able or willing to make good on it. it was not a real foreign policy. secondly, i am not real confident that the big deal with maliki that michael is talking about would ever work. i am not sure he would ever keep. soon as theas

pressures off he will go back to his old, sectarian always. i think we better have a plan b. it is dealing for essentially verywhere the south looks iranian. somebody on the planning staff, had better be thinking, not how we prevent the worst from happening or work with the next stage. >> a joe biden has talked about it before. about, thislking redrawing the map of the middle east. this is 100 years after. >> not a pretty process. >> it was not pretty 100 years ago. >> if president obama is not declined to -- inclined to read --agement -- read engagement the level of engagement michael was talking about, the level we

had before the war. we were the honest broker. we were the only people holding it together. quoting the former ambassador, he said the problem is we built ourselves in and the system does not work without us and we left. if president obama is willing to reengage, if he is, iraq had in election and there is no maliki prime minister. 30's to be a new government and there are lots of political jobs -- there needs to be a new government and there are lots of political jobs. >> to be replaced by? , anyts of people there american official there during the war would tell you. maliki and people less sectarian and close to the run than maliki. iran then maliki.

>> the president said he would be reviewing options from his team to deal with the deteriorating situation and you would not be sending u.s. troops back into combat and he did say that current situation poses a threat and could pose a threat to america and its interest as well. laying out the american interest which demand action. >> the most likely way would be the experience decided to return home. going to be the most frightening prospect, not only for the borders and the middle east, but he sensually these people -- but it essentially these people deciding they have years of experience and they learned a lot and became a more radicalized and bring it home. >> is it going to make what

happened in syria or do not happened a more significant cast of the success all barack obama's foreign-policy? >> absolutely. obama came into gaza aid and said i will get that out -- i will get us out of this place and he is doing it. he did in iraq. look what happened. >> michael, what is your assessment? it might very well turn out in terms of history a turning point in one of the worst decisions of by the obama administration. administration, even in the united states, cannot control all of the events in the world. let's put it in that context. i agree with richard's point there has been an overcorrection. , president bush had two wars going at once. a desire to get out of it

altogether and the process, the security was created not only in iraq. i interviewed maliki and it was clear to me he would've accepted some sort of limited american presence. limited. as long as he did not have to get it approved by the iraqi parliament. a fuss.ld kick up the white house made it a requirement that he take it to parliament and it was a political price he did not want to make. a policypect, it was decision that one could second guess as a requirement of the bush administration did not have . i do think a vacuum was created. syria became a conflict and we undressed very late on. if you accept the analysis of the foremost expert, robert ford , he said he cannot support his own policy. scenarios have

combined and created a very, much more -- a situation that would've had it with had a aq to assist in ir the iraqis and played a more supportive role. >> thank you, michael and thank you to all of you. i invite a robber for two, with you guys -- i invite it -- i ford to comet here with you guys. what did hillary clinton think? oppositionred arming elements in syria and questions the presenceto tie

of american forces in afghanistan to a fixed calendar date. new president in afghanistan, we should have a conversation with him and quite possibly work out when forces could stay. >> thank you. we will be back. stay with us. ♪

>> 32 nations in brazil in pursuit of soccer's biggest prize. the matchup kicked off yesterday. the united states began its play on monday. it faces ghana. ghana eliminated america and the last two tournaments. jeff agoos is a former player. from connecticut, tommy smyth, he has been an idiot -- an espn analyst.

i am pleased to have all of them here. roger, layout of the land for us. it is always a wonderful place to be, charlie. a very surreal place. this world cup is caught between two narratives. the narrative of football coming back to a spiritual haven and the unschooling. of --razilians instead they decided to raise up about the labor conditions, the economy, health, education. a horror story that is waiting in the wings. these narratives conflict and how brazil does and the world hall. they are somewhat the favorite. determine if the country and up in a party or goes up in flames. very good.

winnersou lots of decide that are hard to pick. you have to look at germany and argentina and brazil. a victory.hemselves you have to look and italy. this could come down to argentina, italy. i am on record to say that they can get another world cup. it would take a lot of winning. so much will depend on what kind of refereeing you get. every referee can make a bad call or have a bad today. my big question is how the referee from japan got the game yesterday. and players, -- [indiscernible] that would be like me talking to you, you have enough problems of me talking in english. >> what did you think of the

call yesterday? weight offans and the the entire country following on this one japanese referee and he made it an extremely dubious call. he was probably influenced by the external factors. maybe he was not the best guide to be put in the circumstances. it is part of the whole story. context their broader which is you have this inflamed brazilian public that roger is talking about, as a result although worker's party. millions of poor brazilians moved into the middle class and they have middle-class concerns about where their money is being spent and they are upset. 11 billion dollars being spent on the games. they are upset at the governing body for imposing requirements on them and forcing them into this direction.

success story because you have a new middle class but a combustible situation. it will influence ultimately what ends up happening on the field. >> sports and politics? >> always. >> what are you looking for? what is about this world cup that has your attention? >> you have the sports and politics side. you are looking at a real party. there are a lot of teams that come together, a lot the different styles you see at one time. what you're really looking for is a beautiful game. we do not see the beautiful game from brazil yesterday. as brazil seems to build it they go through and will be one of the favorites. >> roger, who are you looking at to provide star power and the genius that will lead to not only increasing their stardom but the fate of their team?

>> a couple of gentlemen that stand out. the first is the brazilian wonder kid who works in brazil. he is made for you too. he looks like a japanese cartoon character. [indiscernible] the failed to win in the final game. it is compared to hear shema. -- hiroshima. he has to hail 1950. and the wrong we'll could lead to a nation rising up industries. quite a lot pressure for any athlete. and argentina, messi. he has been the best player over the last decade. when he pulls on the argentine and shirt. before it was a rob for.

he needs to deliver. finalentina wins in the here in rio, mib that and of history. >> i am very high on italy. there are only so many teams. italy happens to be one of them. looking at them. roger is right. it will factor into these players. reynaldo will factor in. and another player from uruguay you should be watching. they can score and put on a roadshow for you if they are on their game. of the the time italians, starts very slowly. going to draw over england and the first game. will win thetaly competition. >> you think argentina? >> i do. this dichotomy between the

beautiful game and football oriented toward results that depend on hardness and toughness and defense. the hot italians epitomize and that -- the italian epitomize that. other players. it shifted. argentina has quite the most romantic style. these three wonderful players up front. messi, who has been described. sergio and a very strange looking fellow called de maria who is a great playmaker. i love the way they played. theeart kind of -- despite, romance of brazil aspires for them. >> your mind says one thing in your heart says another? >> exactly. >> is soccer grown in terms of

americans -- america's interest in the world cup? >> without a doubt. you only have to well done a street or a bar, i was riding in the washington metro. it stuffed with people wearing yellow jerseys. the bar across the street from our office were when to watch the game was packed. i do not think it was uncommon especially in metropolitan america. you look at the viewership numbers and the way espn has gotten behind the cop. .nd marketed the hell out of it and very brilliantly. you can see it. you can see it everywhere. >> talk about america and their coach. it's a very physical group with the ghana up front. they called the group of death. a very difficult group. would've always play well as the underdog. it will be critical getting

three points. we have always played well as the underdog. the coaches interesting. he shares it is dichotomy character of both being german and america after the same time. >> what about when he said it was unrealistic for his home 10 to win the world cup? probably true but should a coach say it? >> he could be using reverse psychology. as americans, you never enter a tournament to lose it but to win it. they will be committed to winning the tournament. he is a motivator and it could be a tactic in a way he motivates. i know the american psyche and culture. they want to win games. >> roger, do you want to jump and? .> i have had a recurring dream the american state a you're not

far asand you are not the american captain lifting the trophy in the air as the confetti goes off. dream and heat and heme on the knee said it is important to dream a big journals. no one will be more motivated to prove. i believe he will have his team incredibly up for that game. made a movie as that are paired for the world cup. juergen's take is he got rid of the best player. it is like a game of thrones. what he wants to do is to prove this team can go on the field unlike the 1990's where they took the field against the big team and know they lost

before they stepped onto the grass. he wants his team to believe that the tegal portugal and germany. >> the go-ahead. >> there is a possibility. there is a saying in my country that nothing lasts forever. may be gone a will go out to the united states. it is key. -- maybe ghana will go out to the united states. about howtalked portugal would roll the united states out of the world cup and america beat them. the german coach and the u.s. coach might need a draw. germany will probably go through. there might be a share. the united states could go through. i will tell you when one thing, they will have to play and play very, very hard. i'm surprised they are saying it is all relative to win the cup. my coaches were never sent to be

out to say i could not win. even if i could not, they would like to me. they said they would provide them with a system that permits them to play with competence to break american soccer. >> all of these dreamers here. to takeise when he came this job what he would change the culture of american soccer and the way we play on the field. historically, web been well organized and competent but lacking some of the creativity and sparked a individuality that helps a team go beyond being a mediocre team. is set up adone system built around his players. extraordinaryve layers. he has created a system that is like a refined version of the old system that in the americas have a plate which is well

structured, built around protecting the deflects -- the defense. , it could perform efficiently. thehat does the history of world cup tells us about what it takes to win? >> a lot of luck. to it succeed late, we have play at our best for seven games in a row. think they are thinking has to be gone again. it is a knockout game. while a group play, they have to get point out of the ghana game. teamsame really welcomes that are better than others. a team can always be individuals and would've had a very good group and team spirit. >> is great to have you. great to have all of you. we will be watching. back in a moment.

--the wall street group is a wooster group is an experimental group. anis an interpretation of outlaw by the descendents of a religious sect called the shakers. it is called early shaker spiritual. it is called a profoundly moving. joining me is elizabeth lecompte who acts in the keys and frances mcdormand who takes a break. and performs in the production. >> with great pride. >> tell me about it. >> when i first heard working she wasist -- liz,

researching the shakers and i was not sure why. we went on our first field trip. it was loaded into her van and went to the shaker community. in her this album possession. we started listening to it. music in love with the and i read one of the books that liz had. it just always stayed. it was in the company's collection all this time. and then we reach a point where we had finished making a very big production with the collaboration of the royal shakespeare company for the cultural olympiad. and it was mamet undertaking. we were doing it back in new trojans."d "cry as a break we decided to return to a formal we had done before.

and interpretation where we take the album and use the structure, liner notes, as a structure for the evening. we had been working with cry trojans and we have worked together several times in productions. me a desireessed to to play a shaker. , eureka.st like all of the women were together. we added a longtime company member. we just started sinking the songs will -- singing the songs. making part for me was up the dances. we had the album and liner notes and we discover a documentary we the albume same time was recorded. it opened up a whole visual world.

in the documentary, there is theural language that shakers were practicing called motion it where there are certain hand gestures. i knew that just from the little the ecstaticch, dancing was part of their services early on. was -- and that desire that brought us to do that. and a lot of information has come to us and people have been in touch and sending us books and content with the shaker community. it is like a whole world is opening up for us. >> once it starts to ripple, it ripples wide. [indiscernible] the simplicity and. he of the lifestyle that was connected to the early agricultural focus.

-- it was the lifestyle that was connected to the early agricultural focus. they were looking for a real place to land. a utopianing community. it was agriculturally based. that kind of dictates a certain life and pace of life and community. lot tot is connected a music. appellation. -- appalachian. sheormed by a woman and wanted it to be celibate sect. isd so in that, alone extremely rare that she would be able to move an entire sect from manchester, england to new york city, a celibate sect. and it was equal. female were equal

and their influence. and they also were the first sect of that kind that was integrated. andgrated in the midwest philadelphia community. also new york avenue lebanon. >> equality was very important to the shakers. >> his a look from the moments of the current production. >> ♪ we will all go home with you home to glory pure and holy we will all go home with you pure and holy

we may never meet in time but our love ♪ >> ♪ >> you love it? >> i love it. >> what do you love? >> we go into the room. your outsideave live from behind. you go into a dark space and go over to something. in this case, a specific task that takes all of our attention for that amount of time every day. it is pure pleasure. we don't have the conflict that

usually comes along in producing something a bit like this. it is so easy. it has been really easy and really enjoyable, happy, joyous process. we look forward to it. the young guys as well. they are ready to work and ready to sweat to the glory of the project. >> there is an unpolished look? on one hand, early shaker spirituals, it does not feel entirely finished. it makes it so interesting to watch. burgess on ace weird transcendence -- burgeons on a weird transcendence. it got a little wordy there. [laughter] >> they were not. tents. they believed in joy and music

and dance were a gifts of pure joy. they were not to be suppressed. they think of the shakers because of the celibacy that somehow that was a repression of joy. it could not be more different. >> i think mother ann was thinking there was no way women and men could be equal on lesson that was celibacy. and i also think, from some the research i read, she had a very important reason. thaty personal reason thinking a community could survive without sexual congress. 1850's thathe early there was not a lot of joy and sexual congress for women anyway unless you are trained to be a -- let's were trying to find pleasure.

it was about a lot of death in childbirth, is very low rate of infant mortality. it was all about the job and not the pleasure. .> she was illiterate choose from manchester. she could neither read nor write. -- she was from manchester. she became a part of the movement. -- i should've looked up religion before i answered that. it is my vocation and my dedication. it is what i have dedicated my life too. it is my calling. at my spiritual moment. i freelanced a lot more than kate has. >> a spiritual home for your theatrical experience or for your life? >> for the combination of both.

i have done a lot of commercial theater. what kate and liz has offered me at the wooster group is what i can combine with my life. son. they both had lives that have incorporated their work. i need a place like that. they offered me a place. -- weeveloped pieces developed this over two years. driveable to, you know, my son to college. do a film a job. do nothing and incorporate a shaker project. hadlete security knowing i -- it was safety of home. i could go and do other things and landed here. >> and for you? theor me, i have been with wooster group for 30 years.

>> your first director? >> yes. had toto think that liz be in the show. >> a labor of love? >> you know it. i do not know -- i do not really know, you have gotten too deep for me. >> you are always doing that. here's is what you always do. people think of you as it very creative and electrical -- you do not want anybody to label you that way. therefore, you say something silly to me like you are getting too deep for me. [laughter] >> let me think about a labor of love. i am not sure. i would say it is my being. it is. there is no difference between what i do and what i am.

>> me, too. same thing. >> i do not know if it is love. it is complete. my life is complete. >> congratulations. thank you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> this is "taking stock" for monday, june 16. i am pimm fox. today's theme is people and companies that are more than just pretty faces. kathy ireland, the supermodel turned super mogul. she runs one of the most powerful and profitable brands in the world. plus a three deep company that strives to be more than cool printers. and flipflop dogs, the company's co-ownerel