>> live from bloomberg headquarters in new york, this is "market makers." with erik schatzker and stephanie ruhle. >> they are back. wall street reinvents credit derivatives for a new generation. >> a deal made for the irs. they are considering a hype line industry. that may leave some big sub rise -- surprise tax bills.

studyd that when a new says about the legalization of marijuana in colorado. >> good morning. i'm erik schatzker. i'm alix steel in for stephanie ruhle. >> we totally called each other. >> that's not true. this is time for the newsfeed. these the top news stories. ukraine plans to block a convoy of 280 russian trucks. ukraine says the trucks are really carrying military aid for pro-russian rebels. they will not be allowed to cross the ukrainian border unless they are led by the red cross. the banks -- banks of bounceback. they have had the second-most profitable quarter in 23 years. they are making loads of the fastest rate since the financial crisis. consumer reports gave the tesla

model s its best overall rating in february. now the magazine is saying minor flaws showed up after more driving. among them is the dashboard screen going black. there are probably the front trunk lid release. tesla says those issues have been addressed. faces crisiss -- on two fronts. a clinical stalemate in baghdad threatens to hamper the government's effort to fight back. on thatok has more situation and how the obama administration is responding. we would call a political standoff, there are tanks in the streets. talk us through that. >> it is a tense situation in baghdad. isre is no sign that maliki ready to give up power. military to stay out

of politics. he might use military forces loyal to him to stay in office. it this would be a coup d'etat of sorts. the elected prime minister is legally worthless. he is trying a legal challenge. leaderalled the elected and offered the u.s. support. he says the chances are that he will make way for a new government. it is not a sure thing. >> the military commanders, whether they will carry out orders that he might give an move against the president or move against parliament or move lawnst or declare martial or announce themselves as the political and military leaders of iraq.

i don't at least things are probable. you cannot rule them out. >> he is from a shiite. this tells you a little bit about the canada support that maliki has. he has offered a more and uniting term the country is going to pose a large problem. the u.s. view is that anyone but maliki stands a much better chance of success. >> the army is distracted by what is going on in baghdad. this leads me to what is happening in the north and how pivotal in the airstrikes may have been. >> the crisis there continues. haveind says 35,000 people escaped from those mountains in northwestern iraq over the last three days. as 30,000 areny

still there. they have limited access to food, water, and shelter. airstrikes, u.s. there have been 15 of them so far. you have those humanitarian missions, 14 so far. they are dropping food and water and helping the shelter for those refugees. top u.s. commanders say they have had a limited impact on isis. and have slowed the push help those people on the mound but they have not done much to contain isis as a threat. what happens? will the u.s. military step up its support if the government starts to take shape in baghdad? if the political situation gets resolved then the u.s. might be able to offer more support. >> there are still a lot of maybes and ifs. thank you so much. >> financial innovation is alive and well on wall street.

derivatives are making a comeback. they are different this time than they were the last time around. they are similar enough to raise concerns. abramowicz covers the bond market for us. this is trend spotting. this is not a new derivative that was created overnight. if you put the pieces of the puzzle together it gives you a sense of what is going on. >> we have some new products. these are new post crisis innovations. have increasing numbers to use derivatives that are based on derivatives to offer people a hedge. >> or a directional map. >> amp it up. levering up. not just a hedge but a bet on a particular security.

--s is indicative of a yield low yield environment and people are getting complacent about volatility. volatility has remained low. there is not a clear catalyst. geopolitical crises have not created significant volatility. we heard came out, people say this is reminiscent of 2007. this is really scary. what are the main differences here? >> there are quite a few. there are some similarities. any derivatives that inherently have leverage built into it, you have to put down last to make a bet that if you made a derivative-based that or a cash that. there is inherent leverage. if you're called on to pay out on a bet, you have to get that money somehow. if you have not put aside enough cash you might have to sell your assets. it there is a potential risk.

there has been more regulation. they have made these contracts centrally cleared. there is a party in between. >> two things in my be worth on the similarity side these are synthetic products. the risk is being created. it is not a risk that already exists in the credit product which could be alone or a bond. this is being built on top of that. there are two sides to risk. is it concentrated? side, it isrence difficult for banks to own this. because of the capital requirements built into level three assets. >> the idea of correlation and effect in a selloff, if it does selloff and there is

a shadow world derivative, how much does that play into how much the debt does selloff? that is part of the securitization market. seeing the amplification. >> lance are asking for this. sayinges this wind up about how hard it is to make money at all in this market? at the end of the day, this makes it hard to make money and leads to more complex derivatives. >> it is not just risk-taking. this is like a horse be the same drum. people want to get out of the market weekly. you don't have to go out and a source of bonds. you have to go out and sort of hedge. of taperequires a lot work and there is friction in that market. >> there is no easy way to shortcut market.

it does speak to people's abilities to get in out quickly. >> and to express a view on the future of the credit market. we are coming to the end of the credit cycle. that longo hedge position with something short. it is not easy. the instruments that used to be the leverage loan index, that market is very dry right now. >> there has been an increase in the return swap market. that is a derivative product tied to a basket of loans earlier this year. it was based on the total return swap. this does not fall under the same regulation as the fret -- credit default swap. there are some differences. that gets to the idea

there are not many ways to express views on leverage loans other than buying the cash. >> one of the symptoms of this trend is you are seeing more research about these new products. that harkens back to something vix, which was a lehman brothers report from 1995. this became a very hot market. if it played in the view of many a central role in the collapse of the financial system. >> it depends on where the risk is. if it lies in the corporate credit market, if you start having increasing correlations and synthetic that's that are overlaid on top of the cash that's, any downturn is just going to escalate. it could prompt people to have to pay and sell assets to raise cash. >> you have to sell something else.

it spreads to other markets. >> in the happen tomorrow, that is not going to be a big deal. is not a clear catalyst for what would cause a huge downturn right now. $7.1unk bond selloff is billion from junk bond funds. they are up this week. -- we were talking about this earlier in the week and >> thank you so much. richard kander moves to consolidate his pipeline empire. investors may wind up with an unpleasant surprise from the irs. reconsidering are their love affair with ratings.

>> he built his energy empire on ending the passes most of it onto investors. the dividends of made them very popular. ands ending his experiment raising a big question for investors and the industry. is danr the question dicker. landscapeented the there it did he tell it this weekend -- till it this weekend? >> it made the most money from it in 15 years. in the last five, all of his companies have lagged. he has become too big. this structure -- you lose your

nimbleness. when you want to make money for investors, you have to continue to grow. with that much stranded that in -- >> he hasons, to make that much cash flow. at some point they ran those numbers and could not do it anymore. >> it becomes one big bond. in some ways that is not bad. in terms of his investor space and other mlps, he wasn't competing anymore. a sea change in terms of what these midstream businesses will do to bet on shale oil? >> i think you hit it dead on the head. the tax advantages of the mlb structure are worth less then than -- than building out the

infrastructure based on shale gas and oil. the bigwhy he is making bet and i think he is 100% right. he had no other choice. that is why the stock market took so strongly. best.s really the this is more on the infrastructure surrounding shale oil assets. that is a big that an a big difference in the industry. some of the mlps are going to follow him in this. they're going to need the capital to buy and more -- more and more hype lines and processing plants. >> is this a function of size? >> i think that is a great name. energy transfer seems number one on the list. enterprise could benefit.

we're looking at numbers and talking about market caps in the $100 billion area. these are huge companies. as the lastthis possibility to turn back from an mlb structure. >> why is there a disadvantage? >> it strands your capital that you would normally use to continue to build out the network. it continues to drop down assets and take your capital and turn it into debt in your sub corporations. it strands your capital and makes it more difficult to borrow. it does not get investors to come in and keep your cash flow going so you can build out. this happens as you get larger. as more of the mlps that you own, you own a bigger percentage and that leaves you cash constrained. >> does it surprise you to see

the parent company trade up 9%? this roll up involves them paying significant premiums. things and atwo bit today. one is the increasing dividend. >> that will calm everybody's nerves. >> that is a big plus. when you're talking about a bond like stock, that will make it move. i think the market understands the strategy. he has been underperforming and changed back to a c corp.. that is what they are betting on. i think it is a great buy. what are the chances that that is wrong?

five years ago we were talking about natural gas imports and now we are talking about exports. this can change on the diamond. expects -- he is way in the stratosphere. if that happens the infrastructure is totally lacking. the second thing was the noble report where chuck davidson said this was a lack of infrastructure in colorado. these are cases where you know it is not about the production but the pipelines. the biggest winners won't be the emp players. the producers of oil -- the people that own the toll roads. .> we heard him in the call whos speaking to an analyst is not convinced he is going to

go out with a blank check and buy all these companies. >> this is the kind of nimbleness that he needs to buy smaller. smaller pipelines and maybe not something as large. it aer,e case of consolidation play? i think it is both. i think it is going to be both. to buy asst way is opposed to build. where it needs to be built thrash, they will build. >> it is such a great pleasure to have you. coming up, all their worries have gone up in smoke. a new study looks at what happens when the colorado made pot legal.

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>> the fears of flying high. a new study looks at the legalization of marijuana in colorado. alwaysxecutives have lived and died by ratings. they may have to change that thinking. ♪

>> live from bloomberg headquarters in new york, this is "market makers. " with erik schatzker and stephanie ruhle. >> i am erik schatzker. in for alix steel stephanie ruhle. no longer issue analysis in regards to ratings on alive day basis. one days rating does not capture the entire audience of the show. they did data credit -- we did data crunching like they like to do. i know i watch tv on my apple tv and hardly ever in real-time.

of measure will encapsulate that? >> most people are still watching live but there is a big job. when you look at the numbers, and that is why they said they will not do press releases, not even talk about it. at a minimum we will wait three days. so if you look at their ratings in particular, we have a chart , theyhows among channels are right behind the broadcasters but when you look fx increase over the next seven days, there is a huge rating increased by not talking about the life rating. obviously abc, nbc and fox -- the big rock casters, most of which they show you do not need to watch it those days, especially dramas. it makes sense for them to lead the way and say we do not even want to talk about it publicly

at all. >> makes sense, but are the advertisers buying it? >> a few years ago nielsen introduced the rating. most deals are getting done on that basis. when you look at the day of the tuesday, thaton a is the show where highest percentage of recorded watching for shows. saturday shows are most likely to be watched live. from thursday is still the weekend. three days from tuesday is not the weekend. if you are trying to drive people to watch your movie on opening weekend, it matters what day they watch it. if you are a fast food restaurant and retailer, the day of the week matters, to. >> why shouldn't we some point get 360? less value to the advertiser if i watch it on

month from now than if i watch it tomorrow? >> the tens on what it is. is not in street theaters anymore so it is late for that but there are not -- there are tech knowledge ease. they can swap out the commercials. is a different movie opening now and have the movie opening at the time of the show. that is where it is going. days than 30be 20 days. trying to get it as far as possible. if you are someone like fx, you want maximum money. you do not want them getting free commercials. the question i only watch tv on apple tv, how quickly are they watching those streaming networks right now? >> that is all part of it. basically? >> right. watching apple tv

but not a streaming product delivered to you through apple tv, it does not really matter. if you are buying movies and getting advertisers -- >> those are fast-forward. >> like watching 24. >> usually you cannot fast-forward through those. it is better to have that version. they would rather have you watched that it does they will not dvr. they can change the commercials. whatat about live -- >> about live events like sports? >> live events tend to be the not watched live but it is automatic like you think. it is not zero percent. there is a huge pickup of people recorded and watch it later. >> fascinating. what not about that. appreciate it. we will talk about the changes ining to tv with jeff jarvis

the next hour. >> some people think that is an oxymoron, entrepreneurial professor. he is thy god. protecting profits. those involved in the legal marijuana trade have to look somewhere other than the banks.

>> this is "market makers." i am erik schatzker with alix steel. none other than the brookings institution, one of washington's top thing tanks is calling colorado's great experiment with legalize marijuana a success. taking a close look at how the state did it in is with us from and there are a number of different ways to define success in colorado. you did not look at that way. tell us why you are calling it a success. >> there are a lot of different ways to look at success. a lot of people are using data right now about a lot of public statistics.afety the data on that are early and cannot tell us much from it.

i looked at implementation. how is the government putting together what they need to do, types of institutions and rules they need to roll this plan out. failed implementation and rollout. i said let's take a look at how colorado is doing at rolling out this neat and innovative row graham. a you are talking about framework and execution but just the policy framework. >> that is both. the framework him at the structure around the policy, the structure that arounds industry and government and consumers to access what the law allows them to access. through enforcement policy and the like. >> in your study, what was the biggest, most important part of the rollout process.

part, the governor wants being opposed to marijuana he said the voters have approved it and we need to go to work. he created a task force targeting implementation and used that task forced throughout the process to make sure all voices were heard and all viewpoints were taken into consideration at the end of the day the regulations, laws and policies surrounding legal marijuana were the right ones. >> what is interesting as you highlighted the impact the industry also had on implementation. it seemed like the state wanted to limit the size of the industry so they could understand it, control it and have a good relationship going forward. that seems pretty rare. >> it is rare but so is the policy itself.

the senseis unique in that there are a lot of people who understand how it works, what the market looks like but there are traditionally illegal actors. the industry had a lot to teach government because there were a lot of people that had been growing and selling in the past and accumulated a ton of knowledge about this. the state did not have this because it was off-limits so industry closely with to engage, meet them and understand what the needs are, and as a result, the rollout was fairly successful because they were as interested in information as information gathering. >> what will it take to look at the experiment with legal marijuana and call it an unqualified success beyond implementation and the rollout we needut it? >> what to do is take a wait-and-see approach. i caution against anyone who points to a certain data point

or amount of time and say marijuana is working, not causing this or that and it is causing this or that. the data is still early. as someone who works with eta all the time, i am not comfortable doing the analysis necessary to see if the policy itself is working. down the road in six months or two years we will look at metrics from law enforcement, public health and other areas of public safety to say either conclusively, hopefully conclusively that different a positive moving in direction or negative direction, and hopefully tie that to legalization. >> that is not stopping the critics for the time being. are there criticisms that have been leveled at the pop experiment that for the time being coming even without a comprehensive agreement that you would agree with? >> there is a lot of criticism out there that

legal marijuana is falling into the hands of children through accidental consumption, that it is having an effect on teen youth rates but if the criticisms are growing, the other side has their own data to use and are trying to refute those. and my report i point to a couple of problem areas the state is facing. one of them surrounds edible marijuana. i think that rape facts this type of regulatory process >> do you feel like other states will call colorado to say how can i make this work in my state? >> other states would be foolish not to. the colorado model as it is is working quite successfully. that is not to say if you xeroxed their guidebook and send

it to another state it would work just as successfully. works implementation because of the variety of reasons. a good framework for political and policy environments that come together in the right way. are a same time, there lot of things that are transferable to other states from colorado. system thatacking tries to prevent diversion of product into the black market or other states and different rules and how the states need to look at if we're going to ask -- if we're going to meadow -- legalize marijuana, might this work here and how? >> how surprising should we find this? if you were to go back to the day they were good and the mandate to legalize pot, would you have expected it to go this well? >> i personally would not.

i found it quite shocking. public policy is hard. implementation is hard. even when you have a model to look at, it is still difficult because there are a lot of variables that could make him fail. essentially getting things right is bumping up against constant pressure to fail. and given that, colorado and not have any models to use. the most progressive drug reform in history of the world, at least in modern times. not even amsterdam has been as aggressive as legalizing marijuana and now washington state cap. and there was no model or no real history to go on, it is asarkable things have been successful as they are. i think it's you good true see room to the opponents they would enter to say the same. >> that is saying something. the whole topic of legalize marijuana gets people getty. one-times at the man's

uninformative conversation. the topic.on without access to banks, owners of legal dispensers have to figure out what to do it all of the money. that is where nps international comes in. the first armored truck security company to provide protection to marijuana services. take a look. >> i am not a brilliant businessman. i just have enough common sense to see there is something that needs to happen so we jumped on it. to provide security solutions to the cannabis industry. >> come on in. >> there is more dispensaries in denver than there are starbucks.

>> checks and balances. >> we have clients that are making $200,000 per month. they do with it. they have no security training, they are not security minded looking for someone following them and they might put it in a shoebox or pillowcase in their closet. iny use us to transport it the armored vehicles and we have safe storage in the facilities because the banks won't take it. >> i have been in the industry for about 15 years. my background is law enforcement and the united states marine

corps. dynamic very unusual moving from arresting those who use in smoke marijuana to now defending the people we deal with. we are trained to look for choke points, ambush sites. or anything that is going to box the trucks and. >> most of the banks want a degree of separation. they do not want a dispensary owner with $200,000 in cash that smells like marijuana. we have a service where we wash the money. we have a machine that removes their marijuana molecule so it does not smell like marijuana and then we deliver it to the banks. there is now 23 green states.

our intention is to be in every one of them. the potential for growth is unlimited for us. removing the marijuana molecules. how you doo know that. that is fascinating. that solves the problem of the weeral government from what have seen in colorado but not matching up. interesting to see how that continues. remembering the late robin williams. stay with us. ♪

>> standup comedian, sick, actor, serious actor. that is how people are remembering robin williams today after he was found dead in his san diego home. police suspect suicide. five years ago charlie rose spoke with robin williams about how therapeutic am -- standup

comedy was for him. >> it has always been a wonderful opportunity to acting, it would pay the bills and great therapy. to be able to talk about the things going on in my life, the world, always kind of a great release. especially in the early days with mork on. something slightly crazier and funnier. it was nice to do something totally different. >> how is it different today than when you begin? >> i actually began doing mime in new york. i was going to juilliard and would do street performing mime in front of the metropolitan using them. the scariest people in the world were ladies of madison avenue when you would imitate them. even the animals they were wearing i like it away. alwaysalways -- it was

the performing was get out and do it, the release. >> did you find instant response? >> yes. with comedy, i think you have to. there is very little standup tragedy. it took a while. i was also trained in the theater. needlot of times people the microphone and i would be all over the place. it seemed to be working right off the bat. >> did the training a juilliard help? >> big-time. it allowed me to do two jews walk into a bar. and yet my gentle friend -- don't go there. please. what are you doing and weapons of destruction? >> everything that has happened.

the heart surgery. the idea of the valves. i said you are ready and inoculated for swine flu virus a bovine valve is great because you can craft standing up. >> play in the dirt. because you find yourself getting very emotional. >> one acquaintance told the los angeles he was always in character for me you never solve the real robin. dead at the age of 63. i, like so many people a huge fan. think of him as a comic genius of my generation. can't believe he is gone. ♪

>> live from bloomberg world headquarters in new york. this is "market makers." >> just when you thought it was safe to watch market makers, we bring you the guys responsible for those terrifying pictures of shark week that give me nightmares. >> timing your tweet. knowing what to post and when to post this the other. >> this is "market makers." i am erik schatzker.

>> i am alix steel and four stephanie ruhle. happy tuesday, everybody. time is running out on the latest truce in gaza. the palestinian group hamas says there will be no more temporary cease-fires after the current one ends tomorrow night. israel says there are still big gaps between what the two sides want for a permanent truce. warning cost cuts are on the way. selloff on thehe job. he says friend has become extremely cost efficient and must compete aggressively. sprint has lost monthly wireless customers every year since two thousand seven. atlantic city's newest casino is shutting its doors two years after opening. the casino will open next month. for atlantic city casinos are closing this year. >> it happened to the music is missed, newspapers and happening to cable. disruptions.

next up, tv news. broadcast ratings are down about 50% since 2002. one man predicting the end of tv news as we know it. jeff jarvis, a professor of entrepreneurial journalism and as our guest host for the full hour. i am looking forward to the conversation that i do not know where to begin. it is huge. where do we start? >> i think we can look where we did last week, how tv companies are jettisoning print. unofficial term. now i think what we see is the desperation we saw in print comes to tv. see a lot of changes that will happen but i see a tremendous amount of opportunity. i see tv doing new things in new ways. >> when you say it will be like what we see taking place with publishing, whether it is not the thing or newspaper, will we

ae cbs spin off cbs news as separate publicly traded legal entity? >> that begs the question about whether anyone wants it. >> there is value at a price. the question is, what is the price that go >> the advertisement agencies not the brightest on earth. there is a scarcity called the mass market. the only way to get that is broadcast. he even as the audience is shrinking, the price is going up because it is scarcer. >> who profit traded the fraud on the advertisement agencies? >> or is it they are slow to change? dead altogether. >> no one argues the person with the check out. i think broadcast of national tv has changed obviously. we see junkie reality tv shows. local tv not very strong but

will change. cable you are doing well, and that is wonderful. i think we might start to see the question is the unraveling of the cable bundles. >> over the top. we have rumors. he likes you can pick and choose what you would like to set you do not have to get it all together. >> dish putting together a package for cable cutters were you can get a lot of tv on your own. rumors from your staff that hbo cart.sidering all a that is the first pick of the sweater and then it starts unraveling. lex may happen internationally before it happens here. >> it will. >> why hasn't it happened already? you could argue it has been disrupted completely. 24 hour news stations. you can say we have 24 hours of news to fill but there's not 24 hours of news. lex look at bloomberg. what do you do? you put up a good segment and

tweet it after. you start bundling your own show. assets thatmake have ongoing volume. nonmarket work -- market forces at work here. like things are holding glue for now. the glue could pull apart i think. >> let me point out we are creating an asset of ongoing value right now. the broadcast networks, and let's be specific, you drew a distinction between local news and cable news. we are talking about cbs, nbc and abc and fox. veryare somewhat at the least responsive to what the viewers want. if they did not want news and did not wanted to buy appointment, which is to say at 6:30 in the evening, there would not be any, would there cap complex the real median is

over 60. it has been for years. >> look at the audience is on 60 minutes. right? haveing it there been entries into the market that are doing things good? >> that is a great question. i do not think we are there yet. they are doing good journalism. there is a series on right now isis, the islamic nation that is pretty minimal -- phenomenal idiolect brave journalists inside the operation. >> why can't anybody do that? why isn't anybody doing that? >> i think what we still see is the old median metrics at play. really happening is the old media tricks are mass media.

show the advertisement of the eyeballs and that is the market. this building was built by a new model. the bloomberg model is a high-value audience. this will come to other media elements. ,or now you are seeing the gas the last cap of the media market. business,ews the main which is advertising a credibility gap go >> that is true of anybody that has ever done news, newspapers, two. food sections there is not much new in asparagus. >> we do have a chart that shows early morning viewership has risen from 2010 two 2013. that implies to me there are things that to work for traditional tv networks.

>> ite disparity their? is going up a little bit but not a great trend overall. those are still huge money manufacturing operations. but the three networks, cbs at 10 certainly complete head to head on that. what about the church of journalism? the people who worry with the erosion of the television and broadcast news model we will not get the coverage that the public needs? vice does great stuff but they do not cover the globe. >> that is true. the refrain i hear often is you will miss us when we're gone say newspapers. they say the same thing about tv news. but let's be honest.

i will separate you because you do not do this. there is the idiocy of the standup. standing in front of placed where nothing is happen for the past 12 hours and will try to fool you into something of happening. that is what i think tv has gotten stuck in. we are holding an event where i teach in reinventing tv news. but to instead say it can be all kinds of new things. you can make assets that people come back to all the time. a very good point. one of the reasons local television does what you have just described a moment ago and one of the reasons we get shot in the dark from baghdad when no missiles are raining down is because you have to create a return on the investment. spend theomeone in, money on a satellite truck or whatever it takes an looking to reap as much as you possibly can run the sewing you have done.

>> a few things about that. we send journalists to the george washington bridge after the chris christie scandal which was ludicrous because there was no news there. it was there as a backdrop and really expensive to do. just -- the truth is we all have a satellite truck. satelliteally good truck. all of these as cameras, no. >> what will replace it cap go lex i do not think we know yet. be able to look at the stories that matter to you and more relevant and more valuable.

video, text, and the mix. for the stay with us whole hour. very excited to have you. coming up, sharks nato. the cutting edge technology behind shark week video. i am so terrified of sharp's. -- sharks. time sensitive tweets. how timing is everything in social media. it is "market makers." we are digital. see all of our stories and video and find us.com./tv on your tablet and streaming on apple tv and amazon fire. ♪

>> welcome back to "market makers." i am alix steel. time for top tech and media headlines. subcontractors have started making a new generation of ipad according to people familiar with the matter. apple trying to reverse a sales

slump. shipments have fallen two quarters in a row. it will start appearing in a couple of months. electronic arts expanding to more countries. the largest maker of games for new generation consoles. it will now be available in north america, western europe, australia and new zealand. uber at dirty tricks. accusing they have ordered and backed out of more than 5000 lyft rides. media, dating and pretty much everything in life, timing is pretty much everything. get it wrong and your tweet is no better than a shot in the dark. that is why companies are turning to companies like social flow to figure out the algorithm. jim andersen ceo of social flow here for the news frontier. how does it work? >> it works by relying on the data.

we are all looking for attention of consumers. find plenty attention is by looking at the data. what they telling you are interested in. smart organizations are finding a way to capitalize that. >> doesn't that mean you're telling your clients the same thing? >> no it does not. they're different platforms. >> what are the metrics you wind up using. you will probably determine when is the best time to send it and what is the best topic. >> reach and engagement are the same thing. did people do something they retreated, etc.? those are the obvious ones. that will depend on the business you are in. that is one way of measuring it.

if you want to sell laundry detergent you have a very different set of metrics. beat the media case, shortly tells if they share before they read before they ever read. if they share by story turns out they must have really loved it but turns out it is just a fast thing -- passing fancy. >> or does it even matter? >> if you are trying to sell detergent, how do you make it from the share to the purchase? >> from the marketer you take a page out of the tv playbook, you look at the data. viasat model pb has used can apply to social media as well. you have to have a certain amount of scale to do that. the marketers are seeing is when they've run social advertising, effective social advertising in the right it incs list -- they see

the sales of advertisement. lex we see there is a great book. it says the markets or conversations are held by people. and we see a corporate voice seems to expand. >> that is a challenge marketers have. how do i answer myself into a conversation that is relevant. again, going back to tv. how do i insert commercials? people understand the old have to be paid. you do not want them to be as intrusive and somewhat predictable and not surprise you in a negative way. >> you call this a person based media. this leads me to believe you would rather have someone at a media agency who was really popular and well branded funneling the information rather than the parent company in general. >> they could be. celebrity endorsements have been

around. >> really good at their job. and as an identity. >> this does -- does go to more of a conversation. i am interacting and grace bonding. >> what about the cases where they've tried to start a campaign and people use it as an opportunity to smash it? >> absolutely. you see that a lot. this has marketers trying to figure out what they need to do. again, i will come back to the data. if you follow it and look at what is happening on social media, you can lose -- use a lot. >> how granular can you get when you are off an inning -- offering companies like the new york times or docker advice? when is the right time to post or tweet an op-ed or editorial and when is the right time to send out front posts of other

shenanigans going on inside someone's corporate pantry? >> two things. number one, very precise but not down to the individual level. there is some segment. it is how do i find what is engaging with or my followers. there will be a different set of people that will be interested in engaging in different things. like doesn't it try to get there and become more relevant? >> you slice it as fine as you can within the confines of itself. to do you target as much as you can bet very difficult to get down to the individual level. >> which is different than saying i have this really cool story that i will make you listen to. be verythink that would

difficult to do. what if you do not have the right product? >> you are speaking to the real challenge. we say that media and entertainment companies not surprisingly have the ability to drive the conversation. much more content. much more interesting to people. they can listen more intently drive that. we see that with tentpole events like the world cup. concept. lex i think your concept is really right, how can we move the customer of the chain closer to the point of design? that is when you really get respect from the public, when you listen better. right now social media skills thesis as a broadcasting media still. >> we are seeing instantly -- instances like monza leaves -- mondalize. all within a very tight

timeframe. >> you nailed it, the tight timeframe is key. the typical planning cycle that agencies are used to do not work anymore in the social world. you have to shrink it down. you may have a 30 minute, 60 minute, 90 minute planning cycle. >> how do you get better data. go >> you want several things. you want to know is your audience there? some things are obvious. if you have an east coast-based in the morning probably not a good time to reach them. there is a lot of movement in and out of the data you do not know. you have to look at the data to see when people are coming and going and you want to time it. >> is there anyway to triangulate to see what you can determine from twitter and what can be determined from user activity elsewhere? >> absolutely. that is what we do. twitter is one obvious place. they have a very rich data set

people rely on. you have the stories people are in a react -- interacting with. passedilliams tragically yesterday. there is a lot of clicks going on on robin williams stories. we all know those. there are a lot of things that are not quite as obvious. lex jim anderson, ceo of social flow with me. guest host for the hour, jeff jarvis. >> face to face with the killer. meet the guys who shoot a great video, terrifying video for shark week. i do not go in the ocean because of it. it is true. ♪

>> coming up everybody, swimming with sharks. with us, but guys that take a lot of the close-up shots.

>> the fitness apps. some people use of the gym. way to you here where all of that data may be going. ♪

>> live from blue -- bloomberg headquarters in new york, this is "market makers." >> you are watching "market makers." good morning again. i am erik schatzker. >> i am alix steel in for stephanie ruhle. taking on app trackers think they can create privacy nightmares. they track everything from your way to how you slept last night and that could be sold to third parties without getting consent from consumers. currently no federal protection against this. schumer once the ftc to stefan.

you accept the approve or accept button. >> there is no i accept the buttons. there is not even language or box you can click on line to say you would accept. this is always going to be a concern. people are walking around with devices that carry personal health information that are sensitive. it was not until the chief technology officer gave a speech last night that really got on people's radar. he wears a bit bit. he told the crowd, we like these things. that cost people tuned into the idea that there is a gps on my risk and people could use it to track me. keeping track of how many calories and sleep and weight. i spoke to experts about this and are concerned that the data could be transmitted unknowingly in an by gps or unencrypted fashion. there could be of use of local

tracking. devices couldese start spying on you. >> jeff jarvis has been writing the devices. >> early your wife is using one of those. >> i call this tech panic. when we see new devices come in, we get scared of this. the first legal discussion of spying came in with the kodak camera, which feet -- freaked people out. they said someone is going to take my picture. now we are taking pictures all the time. we get used to it. i have to ask him a what is the great harm knowing i did not >> ienough yesterday? totally agree. there is the concern, not just the potential abuse for marketers to sell on the third-party information that the potential you could face

discrimination either for health insurance or life insurance. >> that is a different issue. what we need is not a question of the data or the gathering or collection of data that is bad. what we need instead is laws that go to the question of the use of the data. any source that says we will not give you a job if you do not walk enough, make that against the law. figure that out. don't go against technology. >> that is all he wants, an opt out opportunity for consumers. >> you can see it would be quite easy for health insurer. now under obamacare there is no pre-existing determination discrimination but you can see how a health insurance would easily discriminate. >> the data is good.

if we demonize that and make a bad, we lose the potential to save lives. he should be going after the insurance company or employer to say you cannot use the data against some way -- someone. kind ofll continue this topic. >> if you are the fitness app does this, you would be crazy to not put data you collect to good use. francisco company selling gps data it collects to city planners and advocacy groups to help making running and bike routes safer. sharing such data can easily -- easily cross the fine line. here to tell us how he does it is mark ganey. how do you collect data and save and secure way that does not compromise your clients? >> thank you for having me. with a simple

mission. which is that we are here to serve athletes. is focused on their best needs. when he think about the gps data with city planners come a we do a couple of things. it is all anonymous. no specific data. it is aggregated data only. this allows a city planner to have a much better view into the traffic patterns, cycling makeic that allows them to really good decisions around safer streets. second, going back to the point just made, we allow for opt out. we are very transparent in the way we are sharing the data and give them that opportunity. the data andu sell keep it anonymous, you as the company must know the individuals and talent relates. how do you secure that

information? , givenprimary mission the fact that we are dedicated serving athletes, the business model is predicated on generating revenue from them. the simple fact is we take a short-term perspective and start thinking about selling data or putting it in a risky position, we lose the credibility and trust. that is paramount for us. we are here for the long term. -- a devicea lot that has a lot more data than you have, our cell phone. everyday i had to use the map to get me through the horrible traffic in new york and thus google knows where i live and work. i am cool with that because that makes my life better. there is the generosity. you are sharing data with towns and thus the citizens that sharing is a good thing. it is what the and -- internet enables.

i think what we are excited about is we're in a place where we need to see standards developed, best practices. i think you are seeing in a list of companies that recognize how we have been empowered to manage the information. i will go right back to long term trust versus short-term gain. we can feel good about -- good about the way we are managing the data. >> who are some of the companies? >> you mentioned one in particular. we look to the bellwether companies like ourselves. the apple and google's of the through theight challenges everyday. we hope we are on the list and can demonstrate to the customer base that when we use the data we use it in the way they benefit from and we are very transparent. and we allow them to opt out or manage the data in a way they

feel is most comfortable. daysese are still early for fitness apps like yours, onices, jawbone that i wear my wrist -- they do not tell us that much about ourselves and the future for companies like yours and others that are in similar businesses is to provide a health product, something to help track your target heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature etc.. sent --ld be a data data set that is a good deal more risky and may be one of the things that senator like chuck schumer has in mind. would you agree? -- are at the beginning of being able to collect information. whether it is personal travel or personal health information or personal health information, it

reminds me of the early days of e-commerce. look at all the concerns people had around credit card access. and return policies and sharing of financial information. over time there was a set of best practices developed that i think we have gotten much more comfortable in the way we manage transactions online. i believe we will see the same thing here that we will develop ways in which we manage the data effectively and at the end of the day if the services are not good and not taking the health data and providing a great service to them, they just simply will not share it. our members are in a position where they do not have to give us the data. we want to provide the products and services so they want to do so. he mentioned the smartphone and cool with sharing the information but that information is much more encrypted than the bluetooth devices around people's wrists. arguing anything to protect her

client stayed at? client's dct your ata? applications are on the devices you just mentioned. we support a lot of the third-party devices. everyone from major manufacturers, samsung, tom-tom but the data we're collecting is pretty specific. largely gps data, movement data for running and cycling. we can leverage the technology that artie exists. >> you are already selling some of the gps data you collect two cities. what is next? what other data sets can you harvest to collect additional revenue for the company? >> for us, we are really excited about serving the athlete directly.

when we look at the waves they are active, we feel they have a long way to go in looking at how their movement. the athletic base is about being outdoors. >> what what that constitute? what does it look like in the future that don't >> for us strava looks like we can cover the athlete from top to bottom. you want to identify new training partners. when you are out running, how can we give you great feedback in terms of how quickly you are moving more how you are improving from workout to workout. motivating and entertaining the athlete. how can we tell you how you have done and what you are doing with your friends and so forth. taking the existing data and packaging in an way to keep the athletes motivated. that is what we are trying to do. >> at the end of the day you have to make money.

are you looking to sell internationally? doing what is great for the athlete is wonderful but you have to bring home money. >> the way we do that is direct to the consumer and athlete. prescription business opportunities to sell through e-commerce and serving the athletes. for example, one thing that is fun if you participate in one of our challenges, basically a monthly competition and you complete the challenge, you have an opportunity to buy a reward. it is a direct to consumer. for us, the business is predicated on serving the ashley. internationally or around the world. >> the business of data is fascinating when it involves the innocent health. inc. you. that's coming up on the just like the movies jaws only the sharks are real. how they get those terrifying pictures. ♪

>> now in its 27th year, shark week on display this week. the quotas capture of the latest the greatest underwater camera technology. but who is willing to take the dive? an emmy award-winning wildlife cameramen and daredevil navy clearance diver also survived a shark attack, i do not know how you do your jobs. completely terrifies me. why do you do this? >> we kind of egg each other on. ihave loved sharks ever since was born. with all the the advancements in camera technology, it is a really exciting time to do this. the cameras are really small. the little go pros. you can put cameras on the shark fins. that is why i do it because it is exciting. i loved sharks and may scare the

hell out of people which i think is exciting. >> you have a prosthesis in your right arm and right leg. and you are still in the business. >> this is an up close encounter with a bull shark. to death,ng so close there is nothing less to be afraid of now. i learned a lot about sharp conservation through working with the pew organization and going to the united nations to talk about the conservation aspects. i learned to respect them and really admire and love the animals. we are on a tight basis now. >> has a shark week demonized sharks? isn't it time to make them connolly again? -- cuddly again? >> i was more fascinated than fearful watching shark week. i think the fascination outweighs the fear. they are dangerous predators but

they are not malicious. pros weis a line of go are looking at right now? >> they are completely revolutionizing how we film wildlife right now. it is a lot lighter. i jump in the camera with a go pro. >> why do you think it is we has -- have shark week or not grizzly bear week or mao mine sharks, the thing about it is like they are aliens. you rarely get to see them. likes to be fair, i do not see a lot of bears. >> you could. you could easily walk out to alaska and encounter a bear. an alien the ocean is environment. humans are not supposed to breathe underwater. so when you get the opportunity to visit that world and see these amazing panel mulls that

are dangerous, they are wild animals but not malicious. we are not on the menu. we just put ourselves in the mix to prospectively being on the menu. >> what is the most amazing guide you have been on when it comes to sharks? >> honestly great whites are my favorite. but a dive we did for the show, we swim down under crazy rocks and there were massive plumes of fish. then suddenly a appeared. there were 20sh plus different sharks. sand tigers. we called them ragged tooth. they are amazing. diving with this guy. he is like my hero. capacity, but is missing bits of his body because of sharks and is still willing to jump in them -- jump

in there with them. >> you just imagine how it feels to go into the alien environment and a cavern full of sharks and fish. part of thee a world. it is amazing. we put it all in the show to share it with people and hopefully they will fall in love and not be afraid of sharks to the point they do not love them and want to protect them. >> both of you make a living doing this? >> yes. >> how great is the demand for your services? 365, we justking came from filming in new zealand influence from this. right after that going to another job. shark week is the highest-rated event on discovery channel and one of the biggest television networks for entertainment and science. >> how much of it is real versus fake? >> >> everything we film israel.

-- is real. though sharks are real. sharks are real. >> what scares each of you? >> taxi drivers in new york. >> there is a greater chance getting hit by a taxi driver in new york city then there is getting bitten by a shark. >> i have already had a few close calls and i have only been here a few days. >> we should have car crash week. porch and full plug-in and show the scariest car to drive in. >> thank you for taking the time to come to us today. awesome. a job i would never have. >> let's not forget about our guest host of the hour. , jeff jarvis. thank you. we will be back in a couple of minutes. couple more thoughts to share

with you. ♪

>> that wraps it up for "market makers." traumatizedind of

by what those guys do. kind of puts what we do in perspective. a little bit. >> tomorrow back to school. where are you going to put all that new stuff back of the stuff you cannot stop yourself from by ewing. the ceo of the container store. >> i am looking forward to that. i have to reorganize my apartment. in the meantime, 56 past the hour which means bloomberg television is on the market. over the a star and has more. has more.stearns >> new political issues coming out of iraq and ukraine. joining me for the option's insight is andrew keen, president of keen on the markets. thank you for joining us from the cboe. starting with the vix itself. a lot of geopolitical experience. russian troops on the border with ukraine. the political showdown in iraq.

why is the fix below 14? >> we did have a rally off the past couple of days. i watch s&p futures about 15 hours a day. it got pretty ugly. 18.80 eight.o seems like less tension over the past few days. historically 14 is a low number but it can stay in 13 or 14 for years on years. the market is still up on the year and we have had a selloff but how much have we really sold off? about 50 points from the hike, 2.5% from the high. this creates a low volatility environment. >> do you want to buy volatility of these level s? .> ios 7 position in the book right now no man's land in the stock market. we are kind of right in the middle here. i have concerns. i would line up a lot of the long positions and move more to cash.

i am a little bit skeptical. any day i can see the market move up or down 300 points in a snap. i am concerned here. if you are a long only manager, the fix is a great way to buy volatility. >> one stock in the news is intel. seeing a lot of action. not a lot of headlines. what do you make of it? intel, it wentat up twice on earnings. you see the old technology, microsoft and intel doing very well. got up to almost $35 and has pulled back. the daily chart making low lowers. the 8.80 levelo right before earnings. the october 30 six calls. looks like they bought those back. they sold the jam 37 calls. looks like a pair is a gets

along stock position known as a buy right. bullish activity. this is no man's land, two. got up to 35 and sold off a little bit. can, iets a strong bull will think of it as a buy. want to give it a couple of days japan out. >> you do have a trade about aeropostale. the shares have been crushed this year, down more than 60%. what is the strategy? >> it started to consolidate around the three dollars double. think three is a very key level. earnings of august 22. this company only worth 250 million market cap. 10% the market cap of abercrombie. we sell institutional buyers of january 3 calls. they paid $.90. these have traded so far. i went in and bondage in your three calls. togets me all the way

january for only $90. they are in the money calls. they actually have $.50 of in transit value. last time with all speculative unusual option activity we saw it in express, another one where the chart looked very weak. that stock at a private equity deal. possible private equity deal here. >> possible private equity deal. you are hoping for eri aeropostale. on the markets again in 30 minutes. ♪

>> welcome to "money clip." here is today's rundown. russia sends ukraine hundreds of trucks full of eight -- aid. ukraine says no thanks. bankers ared packing heat as the country for most more cash to the most remote areas. ,olorado needs security, too now that pot is nice and legal. me to be