>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." show? derek jeter

us. so on the show there is a character named joe chris danza? >> something wrong with that? >> i am quite a character. show? >>se is on the elaine could be a character. kramer, now he is a character. everybody i know is a character on the show? and it is about you're saying i go to nbc and tell them i have a idea -- have an idea for a show about nothing. >> we go. >> we, since when are you a writer? >> we're talking about a sitcom. >> do you want to go with me to really haveink we something here? what do we have? an idea for the show. everyone doing something. what are we doing wrong? >> we go to nbc until them with an idea for a show about

nothing. they say what is is about? i say nothing. >> i think you may have something here. lex what can you say about jerry seinfeld? skewersp comedian that modern life and modern problems with the dead on accuracy. he comes to us each week and the hit nbc series that examines his life and work. the seinfeld television show reveals seinfeld the comedian. moves and love affairs and the annoying feeling better adulthood itself is somewhat overrated. a superb ensemble cast. the show so successful do you think? >> i think it is handmade. a sitcom that is not processed through a large studio system. it is a few people working on this and are doing what we think

is funny, and they cast is amazing. an amazing group of people. each one of the people could easily hold down their own show. show?t is the glue of the >> the egos are in check frankly. be doingl happy to good work and we all have a lot of respect for each other. the glue is larry david and myself working on every single line, every single week of every show. it is not delegated, and no one interferes. >> do women know about shrinkage ? >> you mean like laundry? >> know, like when a man does swimming, afterwards? fax it shrinks?-- >> it shrinks?

[laughter] >> like a frightened turtle. eld"?e creation of "seinf yoularry go to you or did go to larry? >> i did not go to him as much as i turned to him in the bar and said i had a meeting the other day with nbc, they are interested in me doing some kind of show. he said what kind of show? i said i don't know. i never have any ideas. >> did you actually say that you ?elt > an hour goes by, he says you want to get something to eat? i said yeah. we go was struck -- go across the street to the korean deli. they have all kinds of stuff. they have a lot of cash -- all kinds of stuff. newtonss, just fig

with noup identification. you go i will take a shot at that. we start making fun of the products. he said this is what the show should be. just two comedians talking because it is what they do. they wander around during the day with nothing to do and make one of everything they say. of everything they say. that was the genesis. >> was he going to be one of the comedians? >> no. >> david would be him? i mean george would be him? >> no, george was originally a comedian in the beginning. if george is a comedian, then you have to see his act. questions make him a regular guy. we were figuring out which character could do this idea. a lot of times larry's ideas

that joe -- that george very well. we never try to make him the alter ego. >> some say this was the perfect marriage, you and larry david. a magical relationship. >> it was. different comedic sensibilities. different kinds of guys. he was the perfect partnership where he saw a lot of great stories and knew exactly what would be a great story for the show and created tons of stories and i had a great sense of mechanics of comedy and detail , and we always -- give any idea could pass through both of her filters, it would work. if i thought it was funny and he thought it was funny, it was almost always funny. >> what if he thought it was funny and you did not? >> it would depend.

in a partnership you give and take. we had a great filtering system -- system. that is what is that, is. you sit in an office and riders come in all day and pitch you stories. if you are there by yourself, one person's instinct is really not good enough to turn out that amount of material. >> the test was you would never put anything on that was not funny? >> as best you can. there is no comedy like hitting a baseball. awhat do they hit, 300? >> good hitter can have 500. >> what did you hit on the show? >> the 700? them good. very few clinkers. >> there are very few people that say this is the best ever. >> i love those people. >> do you believe it? >> no, i don't think things

like that. don't ever want to see it in print of this is the greatest ever. >> no, that is absurd. for me, the honeymoon makes me laugh more. i am sitting here watching you laugh out loud. >> let's see if it is funny in 50 years like the honeymoon. >> tell me how you and larry are different in terms of writing? is he more absurd or thinku more absurd? >> i we take different positions. here is where we are the same, we both love to kill it. we will work any amount of hours. our desire to avoid humiliation is a great and both of us, we so desperately did not want to be embarrassed i each episode coming out this week. as the show became more popular, the danger of that became greater and greater. we said oh my god, this is

getting popular and now we have to maintain this ridiculous standard. it became more and more terrorizing. but he has tremendous energy, fertility.comedic tons of ideas. there are people in this world that funny things happen to. >> and he is one of them? know i am not. i am the kind of person when something funny happens to you, i know just how to tell it. >> did you study comic? >> that is what i do. formally? >> i don't mean you go to school. but in a sense, you look at it from an analytical eye and say why did that work and what do i have to do and where is my timing and where do i need to take it back so the young median comes to you and says tommy what i need to know to be a comedian, what do you tell him? >> just work. >> there is nothing about logic

and the absurd end of precise way to prove something that is unprovable? me, one thing a good comedian can do is take an iturd from us and put through rigorous logic. that sounds very logical. you say something completely fatuous -- >> did you learn something -- learn that somewhere? >> i looked at a lot of good jokes and realized i had that in common. as a kid, i would write down jokes and would try to figure out why they were funny. of why is thated funny? i never get tired of talking about it or analyzing it. >> when you decided to end left two larry have years earlier. how was it different when he left? >> it was very different. i did not know if i could continue the show. i was ready yard about it, but i did not feel the timing was right for the show to end.

i felt audience was not ready and i wasn't ready, so i just took over the script writing. -- weiss as hard. i would rotate groups with other writers. i would take re-guys and they would be larry. >> we cannot imagine how hard it was for you to do that. >> it was fun. i was having fun, charlie. me a storyost told one time. i think you wrote about this, to . that he wanted you to continue for another season, and is a great fanfare about how much he offered few per episode, something like $5 million. i think you told me a story where he went to you and said you have to do this, we want you to do this and use of look, i cannot imagine myself on christmas eve riding, and that is where i have been to many times. he called me one time to talk about it as i was

making the decision. it was a sunday, and i am in the office working. i said what are you doing right now, jack? he said i am at, you know, aston. i said you know where i am, i am in my office working. the work was never an issue with me. it was a lot of love and fun. my real reason for ending the the stage just felt of knowing when to say good night and have the audience go, "oh, i wish there was just a little more and they leave the theater and say that was great." tooif you go 10 minutes long, it is amazing how it depresses that good feeling. even though we are talking about years, i could just feel that moment. i was like if we leave now, the audience -- there is the thing that makes audiences jump up. >> people said it was a perfect

instinct about you. they are clearly right. someone said it will serve him the rest of his life. he made the right choice. johnny carson made the right choice. >> i did it for the audience. i thought if i leave this now, they will have this thing to say it was good but darted to run out of gas. -- started to run out of gas. there, i could feel it. i knew if we tried to do a one more time, might not be as good. >> i felt that also. >> what did you think you would do when you left? >> i didn't care. ♪

but then i can't tell you the big news. [laughter] sorry., what news? >> >> why? >> this is beyond news. this is like pearl harbor, kennedy assassination. on, please, please,

please. is gettingpotenza married. we initially were picturing a show about how a comedian gets material. we would follow a comedian around in his daily life. we would go from the grocery store to the dry cleaner, maybe go on a date, hang out with his friends. at the end of the show he would do a monologue and it would be some of the things we saw happen on the show. that is where the comedian got the material. that was the pitch. four episodes. >> at least. was it a hit? >> did you feel

good about it from the beginning ? >> i felt good the fact that four episodes were produced because i have never produced four episodes before and did not know i was capable of doing that. just the fact that i have four on the air made me very excited. i did that for. let's get on with our lives. goes you said when they wanted more, you said i can do more. i have given you everything i have had with these four episodes. >> i did not say it out loud but i said it to my close, personal friend like jerry. i said look, i gave you the four things that happened to my -- happen to me in my life. i said what else could i possibly do? then i had to come up with ideas like a regular writer.

then we were doing 13 episodes. i almost started crying from the fear. that we are going to see. >> how dare you. you know my parents are probably going to be watching this. >> did you create this? >> yes. -- it is based on something that happened to me, yes. i did not get caught. i was in a contest. emerged victorious i am proud to say. >> the famous episode in which you won an emmy. >> what is the matter? >> my mother caught me. >> caught you doing what? >> you know. [laughter]

alone. >> you mean -- >> she caught you where? >> i stopped by the house to drop the car off and i went inside for a few minutes. nobody was there, they were supposed to be working. my mother had a glamour magazine. >> glamour? >> one thing led to another. first she screamed george, what are you doing, my god? that it looked action was going to faint. she started clutching the wall to hang onto to it. up or to know to zip grab her to keep her from falling. >> what did you do? >> i zipped up. >> this is one of the most famous episodes of seinfeld ever. >> definitely. it got tremendous word-of-mouth

i guess. i think it was one of the turning point in the history of the show. that and moving tutus -- thursday night. >> why did you leave? well, charlie, you see, i was ieling sad, i needed to -- had been there for seven years. that is a long time to suffer the way i do in my daily life. a long time for someone to executive produce a show like that. i was not burned out. i have plenty of ideas, it was not that. i was learning how to do it. it was not that, i just thought -- i just felt i had done that and wanted to try something else. is pretty much it. >> tell me about the jerry you know.

>> tommy about him. you know this guy as well as anyone. as you say, on the same wavelength. ? >>o you watch the show yes, i do. there you go. he watched george? there you go. that is all you need to know about me. pick --re like a painter who says everything you need to know about me is right here in the painting? i have had composers say everything you need to know about me is in the music. >> i am very much like a costco in many ways. my affinity for sex apparently. my outputs. we have a lot in common. >> it is set for jerry the show was fun. for you, doing the show was suffering.

>> i also had a lot of fun, too. >> come on, george. finished the story. >> the sea was angry that day, my friend. man trying to send back super in a deli. a deli.in [laughter] feet out and0 suddenly the gray beast appeared before me. i tell you he was 10 stories high if he was a foot. he leting my presence out a great bellow. i said easy, big fella. himthen, as i watched struggling i realized something was obstructing it re-think. from where i was standing i could see directly into the eye of the great fish. then, from out of nowhere and

huge tidal wave lifted me, tossed me like a cork and i found myself right on top of him face to face with the blowhole. i could barely see from the waves crashing down upon me but i knew something was there so i reached my hand and and pulled out the instruction. >> how do you explain it, the the essence ofed its time? >> if we could explain it, we probably would have screwed it up. did that money against it. think?what do you i said no way. i said i love the show in the audience is me but i don't watch tv. moreis slightly sophisticated of all of comedy and not what television is used to and they do not think we will

get anybody. collegeed by attracting boys, young men, mid to late 20's. that was the key, core audience. then all of a sudden children were watching, 8, 9 and 10 years old. i mother's generation. we started going international and will from other countries. we said what are they getting? i imagine the children, i assume were laughing at michael's antics, falling down. i guess our parents saw us in the characters. degree ins to some trying to examine the minutia of a very specific human experience of urban living at a certain age , somehow we tap into something

universal. somehow the little disturbances of daily life are more universal than we know. and because the show is dedicated entirely to the last and nothing else, there was no attempt at learning or growth or messages, we would do anything and everything and sacrifice anything to achieve the last. that ifwhat we built they turned it on whether it was a good, fat, stupid whatever it was going to be, they were going to laugh. david's is that larry vision, jerry seinfeld's vision and something else? >> it is hard to say. i think it was a unanimous collaboration as far as the idea of doing a show about the daily life of a comedian, which was essentially very small things.

i think that the cynicism of the show, the darkness of the show, particularly in the first four or five years, much more larry david and jerry. jerry has a lighter heart of much younger heart. larry is full of darkness and little twists and turns. it was a beautiful collaboration. lived across the hall from kenny kramer. become as certainly model of larry david in many respects. this was modeled for next girlfriend of jerry. it is all kinds of there. i think the stuff people remember us for came out of the notebooks of larry david.

i said larry, this is not. -- nuts. everything i thought, come on, this is pushing credibility, it happened to me. i wrote this down because that happened to me. specific lot of the ? >> larryek two week walks around with a cloud basically. it will rain on him and no one likes him and it is futile to get through the day because no good can come of it. yes he is too filled with fear and phobia to kill himself. .o he struggles >> after every episode he would say this is it. likes he did the pilot, i cannot do anymore than this. so we have our forced -- first season.

when 22 came up, he was like i can do it. so finally he left. >> did the show change when he a lot of things happen when he left. the darker element. now instead of being written by a staff of guys in 30's and 40's and have a little but it of that, the staff became younger. there were particularly dark people. writing akind of semblance of it. the reality is one step removed. jerry spreadp is his wings. one of his favorite shows as an

abbot and costello show and i think we started to go that way for the most part. i think we started to look less minutia of things. a little wackier, a little more in a good sense juvenile. larry triedg that with is he started playing instead of one story, he would have four distinct stories, one for each character that would brilliantly tail at the end. one or two would dovetail, but not necessarily all for. storylines but not necessarily with the same publisher at the end that make us big ou had to have that in order to get that. just as much fun. were manyh there critics that said it is not the same show, the audience for the

most part seem to keep saying that they were laughing. >> when you heard the criticism over the past year, did you say the criticspoint or are out of touch with the audience? >> i think the critics had a point to a certain degree in that they noticed the change of the show. what they went on to say, therefore, it is the worst show, i don't know that i agree. is not an you, there episode we did where i don't inc. we had some tremendous funny moments. when people say favorite episode or season him isaiah really don't know because every one of them there was something really potential -- really exceptional. >> what can you tell me about the final episode?

i think it is brilliant in his idea and structure. i can tell you it brought back a lot of folks that had really been part of the tended family over the years. >> i thought it was wonderful. i think it is as big of a home run as you think. which is to say, no one is going to be satisfied. larry and his right -- is absolutely right in his paranoia about this. there is such expectations about this thing that no one will feel satisfied but i think what they did, considering the options they had talked about, and one of the options was not doing a finale episode, just an episode, thinkering this gritty, i it is a brilliant job. >> close to 80 million people.

>> what is it going to do? will you all say it has been one hell of a ride, i am off for the rest of my life, see you later? >> i hope not. we do have different lives. we are four very different old. it has been an amazing relationship between the four of us. >> i would say defining an event in one's life. we have been through something amazing. tape the went on to final audience we owe is cut together backstage and would have several meeting. it is not a terribly sentimental group and we never took it very seriously, but we got into the huddle and jerry started to mist up and cry.

not that it is out of character but just unusual. he said the four of us are inexorably tied to each other. of one of ushink without thinking of the other three and i cannot drink -- think of three people i would rather be linked to for the rest of my life, and he is right. we will be the musketeers until end of our lives. ,t was an amazing relationship and i cannot think of a working relationship with that much attention that could go for that long that could be that much fun. even under the worst of circumstances when all the negotiations were happening and there was a lot of tension and pressure and really got hot under the collar for a while, we still laugh every day we went to work. i cannot imagine not having those people in my life. >> it may very well be seinfeld

is as good as it's ever going to get for you. and you have to come to the ideal that i have enough out of it so if that is the price i paid, i am prepared to do that. >> i had a fascinating conversation with williams on a couple of years ago, an idol of mine by the way. howere talking about after star trek ended, he was very bitter that it seemed the thing that was going to have the greatest impact in his career was done and was bitter and tried to distance himself from it in his career suffered for it and reputation suffered until i have had ant opportunity to create something that will live so far beyond me, how many actors have that? , the actors have that for a moment? he really embraced it.

to thinkou might want about embracing that. i have no illusions that anything i am involved with from impact orill have the the mass acceptance or profitability or whatever from seinfeld. what it has given me is the ability to now do the things that move me that i care about. even if they are just silly, funny things. seinfeld is not my sense of humor necessarily. my sense of humor has more hugging and throwing. i think humor is a great teacher. it did teach but an abstract, bizarre way. it now gives me the ability to say i do not care if it is success to a degree. what i care about now is do i want my name attached to it?

the answer is yes. that was the greatest gift that jerry could give you. >> is there any downside to you -- for you? did it have any downside? >> no, other than the fact that i am not the worlds's most comfortable celebrity. it would be my choice to really be anonymous, and the four of us are intensely private. but i have found people have been really wonderful and kind and respectful to me and my family. i go to the market, go to the movies. i love my life that i get the, the wonderful treatment. >> i assume you're making good money?

>> we made a wonderful living. the story is conventional wisdom is that it was you who said at the beginning, we ought thee getting more and made argument for $1 million an episode. whatever the truth is, somewhere in between. was that your idea? >> i did not bring in the million-dollar idea. that first came out of julia's mouth. but it was not a wild -- there have been actual research done. we knew that for the network alone, every episode underrated or $10 million of profit, share profit. let alone castle rock in syndication. we had argued that after five

years of being at seinfeld, there was no upside in the long run for the three of us to continue doing the show. it had made a celebrity, made us money, but if we were going to be actors, we needed to play continuing tos, put out the image of georgia lane in cramer was instrumental to the long-term careers. unless those shows were extremely profitable. so we argued we needed to be cut in on syndication. in no smalltold terms to go take a hike. when we got into the bargaining that nbc so desperately wanted, we said again, syndication? our salaries are fine, but you are making such massive profits on syndication, .rofits of $3 million per show

to infinity and you do not want to give us any of that? in order for us to feel good about doing the show, i want to leave the most successful half-hour in the history of television knowing i never have to work again. that is what i require or you could not have my services. knowing what all the revenues what everyone was making up front, we said we try to figure out what percentage of the success formula of the show where the three of us? we came up with jerry, larry, , and everything else. the wonderful guest players -- all the other stuff. 1/5 of that formula we said here is the number, one million per episode. >> when you enter that number, what did they say? >> they did what they should have done, which is laughed at us.

i also knew it was detrimental to television if they made the deal with us. it is proven to be detrimental. it is outrageous upfront money. that for television. 13 million episodes for er? these are bad prices. you ask for that kind of money when you are producing the kind of half its revenue we are producing, but we could not ask for it. they would not give it to us. we had to take it out of front. thersonally feel we damaged economics of television and nbc was foolish to give us what they gave us. but there was no way we were going to come back for anything less than the sixth. i knew a 600,000 an episode we ,ould roast a certain amount and that would pay for the rest of my life.

i thought they were foolish to make the deal. i thought they were foolish in the way they handled us. i thought it would ruin relationships. realt we were part of her .amily with nbc i never had any problem if they did not want to make a deal with us. >> you just said, they should not have done it? >> but we began in december, and they did not talk to us really until three weeks before it had to be a deadline. we went through the rest of the season with our crew, writers, everyone going are we coming back because our lives depend on this, and the three of us going we are serious and they are not dealing with us? we were the bad guys. cannot make decisions about their lives because the three of us were

playing a game of chicken with nbc. they did not talk to us until may 1. they thought we would crumble, we would get scared. us 250, we offered would take it because we will crumble. that is not the way you deal with people who are your family and had been working with you for nine years. >> where was jerry in this? >> between a rock and a hard place. as the producer of the show it is his mandate to bring the shows in the -- in as inexpensively as possible. that is his job, to maximize profit and keeping the cost as low as he can. on the other side of the coin, he will be the first to say they deserved a million and then some. he is a powell, collaborator. he believed in us and our request i really think. was in a frock and a hard place, he really stayed out of it.

i think we could have had a smoother ride had he not stayed out of it but he would have had to choose one had to wear, and i think that is a very difficult decision to make. i don't blame him for staying out of it, and ultimately he did jump in at the end and say finish this. that is the day we closed the deal. guys better stop the shenanigans and give them what they want today or i'm going to pull. was the final incentive to at least get it done. i cannot wear the show on tv. it looks ridiculous. >> you have to wear it now. all the shows are stocking it based on the actual where it. >> they are making these? >> yes. this pirate trend is going to be the new look for the 90's. you are going to be the first

pirate. >> i don't want to be a pirate. >> the interest came from where? >> i cannot tell you what the episode was but i know i came to catch up with the scene. something was happening and i come bolting in and they got a laugh. it felt right. it took a few shows to get to this point. felt that represented kramer, that was the essence of the character because i felt that is how the character steps to life. into things. also, the pace of the show. so i like to get in quick and get right to the scene. that is another way of looking at it. like there really is a combination, the success of the then the perfect

combination of ensemble actors and good writing. >> absolutely. it is my third television show, i know about that one. it is a chemistry. it is difficult to still tell you why it works. it is a mystery to me. no one thought the show would become the successful. it tested badly, it was picked up only for four shows the first year. themecond show let's give 13. what is next on the schedule? then it started to catch on. we always had a decent following. in the second year we had a share of the audience that .tayed consistent

nbc started to take note of that. >> at the local reaction between jerry and kramer. you get the tickets? >> montecito. special sneak review. when someone tries to blow you up, not because of who you are but because of different reasons. jerry, you think you could get an extra ticket for my friend? >> you know what i had to go through to get these? >> i know but he is a big fan. i would consider it a personal favor to me. lex i guess i do owe you. i guess i do owe you. >> do i need to say more? >> what the friendship they have that i can come in and take the

whole carton of ice cream out the door. >> it says it all right there. there is the energy come at jerry's take on kramer. they were interesting. there was all of it. >> you just have to do that scene after scene. it is different. that is what makes it so inspiring. in. can come i can be in a real funky mood, to. jerry seinfeld's biggest talent >> recognizing true genius and others? >> a heck of a writer. he writes a lot of the shows. he knows his characters very well. by he andconceived larry davis. i would say his biggest talent

he knows what is funny. i have never been held down by jerry seinfeld. i will go way over sometimes. i will look at them and say you want to put that in? in yeah. >> do you think you are sponge worthy? yes i think i'm sponge worthy. >> run down your case for me again. >> we have gone out several times. we obviously have a good report. i own a very popular electronics distributing firm. i eat well. i work out. i am actually quite good at it. are you going to do something about your sideburns? seems like only yesterday. >> not to me. i guess we finished that about three and a half years ago.

a lot to do. it made a huge difference in my life. happy difference. because it was so satisfying creative way. >> what made it that satisfying? let me offer possibilities. a, brilliantly written? >> correct. >> b, a wonderful ensemble group of actors? >> s. >> three, you just had the x factor, something makes it a magical show? >> abc. , but i thinkhree it was extraordinary we were all lucky enough to come together. once it came together, it was sort of there. i do not think there was magic the on that. it was just a great group of people at the right place at the right time.

and we had a lot of fun. we enjoy the process, and i think that translated. >> do you define yourself as a comedian when asked her? >> and after. i have never done standup or anything like that. it is a very different way of performing. today yet probably jerry with defined himself as a standup comedian more than he would have been asked her for sitcom creator. >> i am sure of that. healy said on the set he was not an actor. him on thes teased set and he would say he was not an actor. the first one to admit it. >> what is his genius do you think? >> i think it is standup comedy.

i actually think he enjoys what he does and that comes through. >> absolutely. that, theto me about idea that if you are having a wonderful time, it is infectious. greatt is what was so about doing seinfeld actually. we were having so much fun. other people were digging it. cool. like wow, this is >> was saturday night live like that echoplex no. in a word, no. >> why not? >> well, many reasons. it was a big break for me. definitely a great training ground for me. and it was extremely difficult to do. i was very down and unbelievably naïve.

i did not know how the business works, and i did not know how the show worked and there's a lot of politics about getting your material on air. i came from doing ensemble work and improv and we are a team. >> you wear a graduate of northwestern? >> exactly. i attended northwestern. rate summit that was hard. it was hard to be a woman there. it means they were not writing material for women. they were much more inclined to write for the men. they have lots of female characters. >> a do today. -- they do today. this was 1983. >> was that a good year? >> coming up ono. there were things on the show that were good. >> you do not have great

memories? coming up on > >> no, i don't really. i really did learn a lot about how the business works that it was not creatively satisfying. i came out of that show and said to myself am i will not do anything again unless it is fun. >> when you got to seinfeld you said -- >> this is fun. i knew larry david. he was a writer on snl and that is why he sent me the seinfeld scripts because he knew me. that is something good that came out of it. like so he get the credit for he wrote it. not only that but thought you would be perfect? >> yeah. you walked in and said bingo. a maybe, maybe. >> that was nice. it was great.

, i saidot the scripts will we be able to get away with this because that show was not written like most television shows. the conversations were not particularly meaningful. they were small conversations that were funny. that appeal to me tremendously. ♪ .

♪ >> this is "taking stock." i'm pimm fox. today's theme is ingredients. stew leonards stores have been described as disneyland for dairy products. plus, combine protein packed ingredients into a tasty snack food. the quest for the perfect chip. meet the president of quest nutrition. the musical group counting crows will debut a new studio album. musician and composer adam