>> from our studio in new york, this is "charlie rose." president obama went to tampa today, being briefed by central

command about the fight against isis. he promised the united states would not wage a ground war in iraq. >> this is not and will not be america's fight alone. one of the things we have learned is america can make a decisive difference. the american forces that have been deployed to iraq do not and will not have a combat mission. support iraqi forces as they fight for their own country against these terrorists. president's remarks came after general martin didn't he andified before congress suggested u.s. ground troops could directly engage isis. this partnership our divisors are intended to help the iraqis develop a mindset for the offensive and to take actions consistent with a

offensive. our military advisors will help planning, andduct coordinate our coalition activities. if we reach the point where i believe our advisors should accompany troops on attacks, i will recommend that to the president. ,> joining me is david sanger thei am pleased to have back at this table. welcome. tell me where we are as the president, according to one paper, has turned on a dime about what he is there to do. >> i don't think he has turned on a dime. i think he is leaving himself every option open. i think there is a widespread sense, in the white house, if you go into a conflict announcing what you are not going to do, which is what he did when he said there will be no combat troops on the ground,

you are tying your hands and telegraphing too much to the enemy. this is very consistent for president obama. he came as a president who was going to get us out of iraq. somehow in the afghan war. it is just a few months away. i think it is his natural inclination to say the beginning of any of these we are not going have a combat role. >> because of where the american people are, who have war fatigue. >> he is not only reading the polls, he agrees with the american people on this issue. he is the president who used to use the line, particularly in discussing the afghan surge, the time has come to do nationbuilding at home. he has got these dual tasks right now. he has a deal with isis. at the same time he has to

assure people we are not going back to the iraq war. the different test for the chairman of the joint chiefs, who has to leave open the possibility that this could be a more public it operation. >> he has to address all contingencies. >> he does. he committed the washington gas, he told the truth in the public. the truth there was we don't know what this conflict with isis is going to wire. he needed to leave himself room to escalate. the white house did not tamp that down. they said he is discussing contingencies, and if he comes to the president, the president will think about it. the president statement would make you think that he will do anything short of actually putting these forces in combat. that doesn't mean they may not or that thembat,

cia may not be playing a role. >> how is this playing in your region of the world? away israel, we are far from it. , the islamic state was used politically on two issues. he may the equation that hamas equals isis, and this has been a long-held israeli art event that we are on the saver -- long-held arguments. we are on the same side. muslim brotherhood in gaza. >> the other reason was in israel we are having the annual budget debate. the defense ministry came up with a huge request for increase. reasons, which has to do with internal politics, but one of the arguments he made for the budget increase is isis.

today, a senior military official gave a briefing in which he said it -- israel is not in the sides of isis. we are assisting the americans with intelligence. it is not our fight. >> the reason i ask, you talk to people from outside of israel in your role at the paper. little arab so support for doing what the ministry and things is essential , to have ground troops on the ground, and supported by other arab countries? like they didies in 1991. >> yes. >> maybe they don't see it as enough as a threat, or they fear that there is underlying support for the isis cause which they don't want to expose. >> within their countries.

>> within their communities. they don't want to expose it by going too far to support the united states great >> how much support is it in these other countries? >> we don't know. fromey are getting money these countries. >> they are getting money. not the they are fighting force of the sunnis against the shiites. they may feel that this is their fight, in a way, against the shiites. ,f we look at syria, where isis and iraq is in the news, in syria which is closer to home to us, isis may present itself at some point as the fighting force of the sunnis. protecting them from the assault regime. they have not been doing that. their ambitions are wider.

>> do they view the threat of isis as serious action mark -- serious? to the region, so that if they had the successful vote, it will provide a refuge for a range of the fairies activities. >> not only that. governments want to be there. they want to create this big islamic state. keep the jordanian family in power. and just be a nice, friendly neighbor to them. as i said, i do they feel this , andt enough of a threat is too far away from saudi arabia, in israel the main concern is about the stability of jordan. by syrianrmined refugees, jordan is the

strategic area of israel. >> when you talk about the cia some people say this president believes in covert action. it is article 50. it gives the cia power to engage on the ground. >> yes. >> it does. this is a president who has turned a covert action, because he believes in what in the first term they called the white footprint, something we have discussed before. it was essentially the term to high technology, drones, cyberattacks, the use of special whoes and covert forces could go in and out quickly and not actually occupy a country. the president believes, and the evidence of the past 13 years wouldts, if you put

hundred 50,000 troops into a country for 5-6 years you will end up not changing the country as much as you think you might. you will end up breeding resentment. and you on the problems. he wants to show first that this fight, syria is more complex. he doesn't want to seem to be supporting a sod after he has declared he is responsible for 200,000 deaths. secondly, he wants to make it clear that the united states does not own the outcome here. outcome.s to guide the that is the box he is in. theremarkable thing about second term of the obama presidency is the light footprint has failed tim. the drones worked well against al qaeda in pakistan in the mountains. ciber worked well for a brief while against the iranian

nuclear program. the special forces worked well getting bin laden. those have all been stymied by the kind of conflict we are in against isis, and the syrian civil war. >> what is the goal? i hear this discussion about ground forces. versus a light footprint. we were having a similar debate during the recent conflict in gaza. of cyber warfare, intelligence, and not covert action. ground forces mean casualties. in israel military casualties have in norman's impact on public opinion. at the recent war has shown to most you cannot win wars only from the air. what hamas did, they dug tunnels. tunnels cannot be destroyed by bombs.

israel deployed ground forces then there was debate as to what extent they should be deployed. but the real question is what is the goal of this war against islamic states. to destroy it, and then what? to rebuild the iraqi states? rebuild syrian states? this is the main question. you can destroy isis and then comes another organization to run this area. >> what comes first? >> the destruction of isis cannot be a goal in its self. >> it is the expectation. the president was anxious to have a government that showed some interest in inclusion before he announced airstrikes in a significant way. >> you can't do that in syria. we don't know what happens in syria. obviously,splits up many would like to see a sod --

assad gone. the country may go at any direction. he raises a great question here. if you don't have control of the ultimate outcome, what kind of state emerges, then the goals that you express our tactical. i think that is what is behind seemingly semantic arguments within the administration, a war, calling it a war against al qaeda and so forth. the fact the administration didn't have a talking points together on this may simply be a talking point issue. y'reay indicate that the struggling with their goal. >> you know what the different voices are russian mark >> voices are? >> i don't know now what the voices are about the broader strategic elements.

within the isis argument, itself, this has gone in traditional territory here. the pentagon was reluctant to get into syria. if they were going to go in against isis they wanted to go in with enough of a show of force that isis didn't just linger as a continuing force. i think that is the perspective you hear from general dempsey. it's a similar argument that broke out over the summer as they were debating to what --ree they confront hooton vladimir putin in ukraine. they are making the case you have to have enough of a shelf horse in the ukraine -- show of force in the ukraine, that putin would understand the risk of going after the nato states. the pentagon never wants to be in a position of being assigned

to simply degrade a force and not actually destroy it. the gaza war, politicians in israel argued for the reoccupation of gaza and instruction of hamas. argued, thetanyahu best option for israel, someone eats to take care of the territory. militias, and eventually you would lose control. >> that is an interesting argument about whether the president should come out a week ago and give a speech that basically declared that from now until the end of his presidency this becomes the major goal of american foreign-policy. there were some who have left the administration, who are active in the first term who have made the case to me the

president speech should have said we are experienced at this. we have dealt with the pakistani taliban and premium debt with al qaeda. we will now deal with isis and what comes after isis. that we are pretty good at counterterrorism and just let us handle it rather than make it the dominant theme at a time that he has so many other challenges to deal with from kootenay to china -- from putin to china. >> including ebola. >> he sent 3000 troops for ebola. ops inmay be 1500 tro iraq. >> back to israel and hamas, what is the status of that conflict today? >> extend the cease-fire. the mortar bomb exploded yesterday in israel near gaza. a moss was quick to announce it was not us.

clearly that was no israeli reaction. there are talks that are supposed to take place pre-everybody lingers in trying to find out whether this takes them anywhere. >> are any of the things hamas wanted going to happen? borders will not be as strict? embargoes are sanctions will not be as deep? >> not as much as they wanted. with the yuan and palestinian authority on some sort of a reconstruction regime. that depends on hamas the green authority. >> there is still this. talk about the president's mind. he clearly has come to the point that we have to do something, it

is not going away. >> that's right. he was highly resistant in the first term in the beginning of the second. to have a prolonged military presence of any kind in the middle east that would suck us back in. i think in his heart, given where he grew up, given the way he views the future of the economy, he believes his legacy should be the asian pivot. that is where america's future is. that the middle east is something where the united states has to play and has to fill the vacuum, but there is no or little long-range benefit for the american public. >> he is made clear the ice a struggle will go beyond his presidency. alexi is made that clear. -- >> he has made that clear.

>> going back to your question about the coalition, i believe president obama with love to have the notice states as the arbiter. time and again it fails. after play a role with military force and not just telling others what to do. one of the problems is that america cannot and would not full alliance with iran. it may have been tilting this way, it is clearly more open about it. whostill there are many don't want to enter into an alliance with iran. do can't send the shiites to

your job against isis. yet to do it yourself. >> it is clearly some kind of conversation taking place between the iranians and the united states. they have a nanny and supported militias on the ground. supportedve iranian militias on the ground. that is the reality. .here is some corroboration >> this is going to be the fascinating question. when we look back at this conflict are we going to say the united states did this in the air and the iranians did's on the ground, and they did coordinate? we are headed into an interesting week on this. , heforeign minister of iran is coming to new york today. the president iran is coming next week. the nine states is coming next week. lester they talked on the phone. last year they talked on the phone.

it was the first time they spoke to each other in 30 years. and a face-to-face meeting. right now we have no evidence that is going to happen. >> that is the worst thing in arabs.f sunni >> israel is afraid america the ground forces -- no nuclear concessions. they would be closer to the bomb for doing away or degrading isis. >> certain things have been made clear or have been said by this or print leader. we're not one have any operation . -- have people like [indiscernible] the leader of the kurdish forces. he is in iraq. >> the forces are in iraq.

of ports -- he works for this agreement leader. >> he does. he does not have the authority to deal with iraq and syria. but he is a negotiator. you will have the iranian president, and the degree to which he has control over this issue versus the iranian revolutionary guard corps, we do not know. we know little about the council of the iranians. who has the real power. then we are facing this deadline of late november for a nuclear deal where the iranians want to use all the leverage they are getting from this conflict would isis and the americas what to say these are completely separate issues. i don't know actually how you

keep them completely separate. it is a nice talking point. i'm not sure you can do in reality. >> that is a problem with conflicting alliances. >> are not sure i would call it an alliance at this point. ,here are common goals here whether there is going to be quite operation, there is so much distrust. >> the iraqi government can talk to both. >> you tell them we are not going to bomb here, and make sure they're a no iranians here. when you look at the strength of isis, is it surprising? i have 30,000 -- they have 30,000 men under arms.

map, it is at a huge part. >> it is. 30,000 is not that big of a force. there is an argument to be made that isis is overstretched. they have more territory than people to hold onto. they have big expenses. they are paying these forces. have to do the equivalent. that is a problem. it creates a vulnerability. most important part of the central may not be the command, it may be the heart the treasury is fighting. we had a story about the effort to cut off the million dollars or more isis is making every day from oil exports running through

turkey. one possibility is to kill off the black market for that. the other possibility, whether or not they just blogged a few of these tankards as they head up to turkey. >> the interesting question is where the turks are. >> they did not sign on to the general statement that secretary kerry negotiated last week. he was in saudi arabia. they have not said what they will do on the economic front. they have not been active so far in shutting down that black market in oil goods. there is some suggestion they are close to power in turkey who may profit from this black market. there are some suggestions which we have read that even a sod is buying oil. >> there have been reports that

them did not know to see destroyed early on because they were operating against the free syrian forces. >> you are right. they are right now absorbing the american effort that might be aimed at assad. >> it's not just the troops available to isis, it is the organization's ability to draw and more and more sunni tribes. >> that is the issue. this is the old strategy. the prophet mohammed, this is how he conquered the middle east. taking in one tried after the other. not just absorbing it all at once. this is the strategy they are tried to imitate in their ambitions.

>> another way, there is a fight at this moment on the ground for the hearts and minds of those sunni tribes and militias who have been on one side and the other because of the iraqi government's actions. they then may have given support to isis. they are now realizing what isis is about and are being encouraged to fight. >> they think that if you join the cause, you're going to get something. sometimes you are threatened. >> what does this remind you of, the air of awakening. that was the last quarter of the bush presidency. we are entering the last quarter of the obama presidency. are remarkable parallels. >> thank you. good to see you. great to have you here. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

>> the disappearance of eleanor rigby is a new film following

the relationship of a couple in new york as their marriage is tested by tragedy. the ride he calls it a most effective portrait of two people who love each other but may not be able to live as one. here is the trailer. ♪ >> would you mind passing this to the girl with the redhaired russian mark -- would you mind passing this to the girl with the red hair? >> you are wet. >> you noticed? >> you are sopping wet. >> you notice. thank you. rigby, there is only one

heart in this body. have mercy. when things get hard -- >> i can't do this anymore. >> i have no clue where she has gone. >> she vanished. i don't how to help you. >> stop reminding me something is wrong. >> you look like hell. >> maybe she wants you to go after her. try some other version of myself. someplace good. >> will you still love me if i couldn't pay for dinner? >> i'm going to leave first.

>> run. >> walk away from things, start a history, walkaway. >> everything seems limitless. >> you are my life story. joining me now, the director and the film stars, jessica chastain and james mcavoy. explain this to me. well, -- yeah. the history goes back 11 years when i had a short film and a festival that played in los angeles. there were 12 people on the audience. lobby,rds i go to the and this beautiful lady came up to me and said i want to work with you. are you the director? i said yes. why do you want to do that? her name happen to be jessica and she had an episode

of er on her real and had just graduated from juilliard. we became friends. i saw her do a play in new york. she blew me away. i knew she was incredibly special as an actor. we became close. writing the script, because there were three parts to this. >> explain the three parts. >> there are him, her, and them. we shot him and her. scripts based on the him that i wrote. andica had these questions thoughts about the character of eleanor rigby. she was serving the character of corner in his grip. that.s curious about

to writeted the idea another script for her. if i wanted to write a script about relationships, what better way than to show both perspectives? >> that's tricky. how'd you do that? >> it was tricky. we created a subtext, this otherworldly became this 223 page script that we set out to shoot. , ours jessica and myself , and we try to do these all these years ago. it was hard to get made. i have no credentials aside from short films and a couple of people believing in me. ultimately, we had gone to james. when we sent it to james he was not in the right space to

approach a character like that or a story like that. >> what does that mean? filme couple in this suffer a massive tragedy. although i had not in my life, i experience of thing that made it to raw to go near it. a couple of years down the line the guy that was going to deal fell out. you guys had a short window to replace that actor. you came back to me. i was older. do thepoint is you could first time because it was too raw because of where you were in your life. a year later you said it is fine. him.w you have where are you then? >> that locked our financing. these are busy

actors. she had a window she needed to fill. she committed to another project and likely we got there just in time because we were fighting for that window. they goodness for james. he pulled everything together. we are all of a sudden in preproduction. >> now him and her. >> we shoot two years ago in july and august in new york. 40 days. 223 groups. and, from that we have this two-part film that premiered at the toronto film festival that played better than any of us expected to. it was picked up by the weinstein company. int takes us to this year, february. we have conversations about how

to distribute a two-part three-hour film. >> i can imagine. >> i got into an editing room with my editor, the assistant room with sat in the me to create the other films. we found this third film, which is them. i hope the whole project is pre-that as we set out to do. let's get awards. [laughter] who are the characters? play eleanor rigby. james is connor. for me it is an adult love story. it is about this couple that have just passed the phase of romantic love. they are having to deal with

grown-up problems. it is a problem with communication and greed. what happens when people have to grieve in separate ways? can you love someone enough to let them go? i find a film that is completely encircled by love, love and family. a father and daughter, father son, eleanor's parents in the film. the sister relationship. it is a beautiful love letter. >> because it is done the way it is we can see how people experience the same thing and see it differently. >> absolutely. >> you've all had an argument in which someone you love dearly, , and how it was revealed or discovered. that is another argument. i think currently it is about

ofory, it is about the sense right as well. you have to believe in what you believe or there is no going forwards, especially after a couple like this have suffered such a massive loss. how do you feel like couple? you have to heal yourself individually. are playing two different characters. >> i was playing connor's perception of eleanor rigby and eleanor rigby. experiment in acting. i would do things that would further his story. make her more of a mystery. more inaccessible. slightly colder. things that if you saw him and hadn't seen her version you might think eleanor is a terrible person.

>> we have lots of clips to make sense of this. the first is from them. are an unplaced good. >> where you going? >> here. are you coming? >> yes. [laughter] >> where are we? good.eplace >> this is not the first time it has been done. this idea of two characters seeing two different

perspectives question mark >> no. richard burton and those with taylor. >> were you informed by those? >> it came from this organic clays. -- organic place. like, appropriate. this commerce asian came to be, "flags of our fathers." >> clint eastwood. relationship, a love story from the male perspective and the fema perspective. that goes beyond the characters. it is the town, the color pa palette. >> was this easier for you?

or is it simply an acting challenge? the harder the subject matter, the more complex the person you are playing. when people are simplistic. these guys were a mess. it is hard not -- you don't want to give things away but it is hard not to take your baggage home. it was interesting. he doesn't talk about it. he is trying to push everything down. it is hard to go home and not let that out. at the same time, it's amazing. >> because of the tragic event. we don't do give that away. >> a lot of reviewers have. we think it is best to go into it though not knowing. wasn't what i wanted the

film to be about. i wanted to be about this couple, this relationship. it could have been -- it's an extreme thing that happened. it could've been anything. the point is it is showing to and experience of thing in such vastly different ways. that is what makes them who they .re ,> what i find about the thing what makes it important for me to remember is that whenever i look at jessica's face, i see the tragedy. we cannot look at each other and see anything but a tragically injured relationship. yet we are trying.

, does this give you an insight into relationship? what do you want the audience to come away with? that love is tough? that love is relative? idea thatve in the love changes. i have a very hopeful view of love and relationships that i brought into this film and i walked away from. i want people to see that these two people can have their love become something else or change in different ways because love is this constantly changing thing. that theople to know love that these people

experience is always going to be part of their lives. it is just quite a change. >> wide you call it the disappearance of eleanor rigby? >> i think that with the title because as he was outlining the script he was listening to that song. what i love about the title is her parents had met or falling in love around it. they were going to one of the beatles concerts. when they have the daughter, we can call her eleanor rigby. it is this a great token of their love. that is the blossom of it. token, elinor is -- it is so much about where eleanor is. >> she literally disappears in

the him film. it is a bit of a mystery. the whole film i'm searching. your film you have disappeared in yourself. >> she wants to disappear from herself. >> is new york a character question mark >> definitely. the world they live in, i just wanted to, i wanted to show the version of new york that i love and have it sort of exist. new york is a great collaborator. you put together a rather remarkable cast. >> that was a lot of luck. of these twose actors with signed onto it, william hurt had signed on,

cassandra, our casting director utilizeucer, they had those relationships. all of these things help me. i'm untested. isapartment that that there an exciting to film model, there uniquething quietly about your writing, even if it was just one script. because you have the cast as well. everybody read it and said this is unique. , andrite about adult love yet you still manage to make it manageable -- magical.

houston the reality of adult love and all the harshness that comes with it and all the hard work that goes with it. we always want to do that. it was beautiful. could feel it? >> it was a special experience for me doing this film. riding the perspective, every thehe was talking about relationships. it was a beautiful thing be involved in, the constant development stage. >> i'm going to skip to clip four and five. this is the his and her version of the same scene.

>> of course we get the car with the wipers. >> what are we doing here? >> you tell me. you are the one who says we needed to talk. you went to my parents house. what are we doing? bar andalk in to my suggest that we drive-in this storm. >> this is funny. >> yeah. [laughter] hilarious.

>> ahh. we got the car with the retarded wipers. >> there's no rush. what are we doing here? >> you tell me. you stopped me, you said we needed to talk. >> you waltz into my bar and suggested we drive aimlessly. so. >> it's kind of funny. yeah it's hilarious.

the'm thinking about difference between small films and big films. between x-men and eleanor rigby. do you want to do both of them or this is where you are headed question mark >> i like to do both. i like the collaboration on small films. there is less hanging around. but i like the closeness that you have with the camera crew and the collaboration. there is more technical ins and outs. movie, it's a very close family thing. you can comedic caper he don't get me wrong. i love being in big movies. it's good fun. the fact that we on purpose

tried to make an audience hate the character, and then spend to real-time back and make them feel for the character. why the finger for liking them. when he sees the ultimate punishment, we are looking to feel again. so yes. much as a film about crazy humor, significant mental illness. i've watched films about mental illness. they are quite realistic. this was a serial a stick --

surrealistic version. here, not so much. >> you have how many films coming out? >> if you count eleanor rigby as him and her, then one in, and december. me when they offered me to do miss julie, , it is like do you want to hang out with labeled men -- lee bergman?

>> it is a wonderful sense of the two of them. >> and the book she wrote. it is beautiful. >> she has spent great times at the table. thank you. especially to you. it in this waye with this group of people and feel special. >> it opens this weekend. thank you for joining us. ♪

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