>> live from new york city, this is charlie rose. >> nick woodman is here. he is the ceo of the gopro. they went public in june in june. the stock has tripled.

earlier today they unveiled new cameras. i am pleased to happen at that table. >> thank you for having me. >> tell me about the beginning. >> the beginning goes back to when i was 22 years old and i decided i wanted to make it as an entrepreneur. i wanted to make it as an inventor. i didn't think about the business side. i wanted to come up with an idea that would allow me to be successful. i gave myself until the age of 30 years old to succeed. i told myself if i don't succeed by the time i'm 30 years old i will work for someone else's dream because i want to have a family and a career. my first business was an online game company.

i failed. i started that when i was 24 years old. that business shutdown when i was 26 years old. i have four years left on the clock. i have no inspiration. i had no ideas. i was traumatized from my first failure. failure. with inspiration and a little bit of savings i decided to hit the road and find inspiration. i believe that when people are pursuing their passions they are turned on and have the best ideas. i'm going to hit the road and look for inspiration. i had the idea for gopro before i even left. the idea for a wearable wrist camera i could surf with two documents myself and my friend while we were surfing.

i figured this is going to be the trip of a lifetime for me and i want to document the experience. when i looked out for a camera that allowed me to serve and video or photograph my experience at the same time, there was nothing at the market. i decided to pull something together and i invented the first wrist camera for sports, a modified surfboard leash that i wore on my wrist with some o-rings that held the camera and place on my wrist. i went on my trip and the product worked so well that the lightbulb went off and i realized there must be somebody that wants something like this. i thought of it as a surf company. >> when did the idea hit you that this goes beyond extreme adventure? >> it took a wild. i started in 2002. the first product in 2004.

it wasn't until 2007 that we grew off of the risk and made accessories so that customers could mount this box anywhere. the idea came to me pursuing another passion. i'm a big believer that when you are pursuing your passions your best ideas come to you. your passions are like your fingerprint. we all have them. everybody's are different. i think once passions may just be a guidebook to one's life. as my wrist camera company started to do well enough financially, it allowed me to pursue another passionate dream, to learn how to drive a racecar. i went up to san francisco and

rolled in a racecar driving school. they wanted to rent me a video camera to put in the racecar, 100 dollars for every half hour of use. i thought that is crazy. i got my wrist camera in the trunk of my streetcar. i will just get that and strap that to the rollbar. as soon as i strapped that on to the rollbar and stepped back i realized that looks like that is supposed to be there. everybody else gathered around and wondered where i got it. i remember turning to the fellow who asked me and said dude, i made that. the footage was much better than any camera at the time you could put on a car. i realize we have got to stop being just a wrist camera company. we have to make accessories so that people can mount this

little camera anywhere and capture any perspective of life as it is happening. that way, gopro could be appealing to everybody. everybody has interests, everybody is doing something that is personally important to them. everybody has an interest in seeing themselves engaged in their interest and activities. before gopro, it was almost impossible for anybody to self capture themselves. >> was the electronics of it difficult? to create the camera, was that a hard goal? >> i got really lucky. i had an idea that nobody else had had, in a very developed industry of digital capture of cameras. you think every idea would have already been had. they have been around for a long time. i had this idea for a wearable

mountable camera that was different than anything else. i have this grace period to develop this concept. i thought i was going to see the competition steamroll me. nobody was paying attention to what we were doing. the first digital gopro were humble in design and design capability. because nothing like this existed before our customers were just happy to have any camera they could use to capture themselves doing what they loved. in the early years i would say gopro products weren't that impressive. it was all that there was. along the way we were able to attract better and better

engineering talents. today we are producing top-of-the-line technology. we were very fortunate that we have many years of no competition and we were able to bootstrap ourselves. >> i want to talk about this camera. how many years we talking? >> i started in 2002. >> 12 years. you started with eight employees, including your wife. you have a hundred 40. >> ballpark. >> it is a great success story. today you were announcing the launch, this little bugger here. >> see yourself capturing yourself. >> hello, hello. i can have you for $499, right? you are on the charlie rose show.

you can't get bigger than this. >> thanks for having me. >> this actually is this over. it has the built-in lcd screen. this is a significantly improved version of the hero three plus black, our best-selling camera since we launched. exactly the same size, now including a built-in touch lcd. it is no easy feat. the sells for $399 dollars. this is our flagship. this is our highest performance ever made. >> the difference? >> it allows for incredible slow-motion effects. what makes 4k so interesting, it

captures cinema lifelike video. >> you can make a movie? >> people already make a movie with that. the hero three black won an emmy. >> i did not know that. >> the first consumer camera to ever win an emmy for enabling new perspectives and television at an extremely low cost, which enhances programming. when you show the world perspectives they have never seen you engage the world. >> that is the most exciting thing for me. you can put this camera on an animal, on your cell phone, it will take you places you can never imagine. not only does it give you a

different perspective, but places you are not going. preachers are going where we are not going. >> we see their interest, and we develop an understanding and appreciation for diversity and a sense of a global community that we haven't had before. one of my favorite videos is titled on youtube afghan ski video. it is a group of kids from afghanistan who had a gopro, and shot this in 2013. we made it the video of the day. it is a group of kids in afghanistan who put on a ski contest in the hills above their town. complete with hand-painted gopro banners and they put it on with an x games event. they documented the whole thing from painting the banners.

this is definitely a different perspective of everyday life in afghanistan than you are normally seeing in media. we wouldn't have seen it if it wasn't for these kids having a gopro. >> battery life is what? >> depending, an hour to two hours. an hour give everything cranking. the challenge is to meet the demands of the consumer while delivering professional quality results. if you go to somebody, a producer, it professional filmmaker in hollywood and tell them that this little matchbox sized devices shoots 4k, and it

runs for an hour, they will say that's amazing preview say that the consumer and they say that's all? you have different expectations. this is a professional camera built into this thing. it is amazing. why did you put the lcd screen on the back of the top-of-the-line camera? the answer is this camera, the resolution and frame rate it is shooting at, it is at the leading edge. you can't cool the camera if you have an lcd. this is the formula one engineering feature. i still get in the car, not as much. >> a weekend racer? do you actually go out and raise? >> i don't get into the car as much as i used to. i now have a new passion in life, which is my growing family. we have three little boys. time with them and my wife is incredibly precious.

>> are you documenting it? >> i am documenting it. passion is your guides your life. the time that i spend with my family and documenting my children as they grow and the experiences we have is forcing me to think about our products in gopro makes me think in a different way. it helps me capture my passion for racing, then this versatile devise that helps everybody passion, is now revealed to me as the ultimate family captured of ice cream one of my favorite ways is taking it with us to the diner on saturday to document pancake breakfast is. i document all of the funny phrases. everybody forgets it's there. the challenge is, my family is

trapped on st cards on my desk at home. i am frustrated because i want to be enjoying those moments and sharing those with extended friends and family. i don't have the time. this has really been the driver, a big inspiration for us to think about how do we help our customers manage this content they are capturing so that they can easily access it, watch it, and then do something with it? take the 30 minutes you capture the park with your family, compress it into 1-2 minutes that people want to watch, then share it. that is the next phase for gopro. what's the long-term vision, the long-term vision is to establish gopro as a standard for how we capture meaningful life

experience is, manage, then compress them into short form stories we can share with others to better express ourselves and share our experiences. we have a real opportunity to accomplish that. >> and ease of operation. what is interesting is that i have often said to my friends, because of what i do, you went document the experiences of family, your parents, and your grandparents. if you didn't have the technology or didn't think about it before, it is so easy. talk about their childhood, their grandparents. talk about the lives that they share. i never had a chance to record all the wonderful conversations with my father about world war ii. he talked to me about them

personally. never with a camera. just record that, or my mother growing up come all the things that she did while he was away. it is a wonderful archival devise. >> can you imagine seeing footage, high-definition footage of your parents playing his children? >> unbelievable. >> how that would understand your understanding of who they are. >> this an international product. are you thinking about gopro stores? >> it is something, it is potential down the line. as our product grows we have more and more interesting things we could put in those stores. if you have ever seen us at a consumer facing trade event we put on the fabulous experience that has proven to be successful for helping us grow our brand and engage consumers.

the truth is we have got so many great retail partners who are interested in giving gopro more floor space, best buy we are in the process of moving from four feet to 12 feet within their stores. creating what is a store within a store. that opportunity is buried in the hand right now. in the foreseeable future we see ourselves growing. >> it was great to see you. >> great to be here. >> gopro, back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ >> i think our head of the intelligence community has acknowledged that they underestimated what had been taking place in syria. >> he said we overestimated the will of our allies, the iraqi army to fight.

>> that is true. >> after the president remarks on sunday there was an intelligence community with a pushback, they felt they had been thrown under the bus by the president. an article by peter baker and eric schmidt, i am pleased to have peter baker here on the program to talk about what he has seen and reported on. let me begin with this question. the president was on "60 minutes" and talked about the united states facing a crisis. is it true that there has been back from the intelligence community with respect to what the president said on "60 minutes?" >> some felt they were being thrown under the bus. he may not have meant it. he decided to quote jim clapper.

clapper recently said that the intelligence community did not force the speed with which isis or isil would race across iraq. the president was trying to use words that jim clapper had used. in the process he may have semi-cute was saying it was all the intel. he didn't say anything about his own misjudgments. >> what does the white house say about statements today after the fact of the sunday interview? >> they pushback on the idea was trying to blame the intelligence community. it didn't indicate any particular his part to point the finger. he relies on them religiously. they also read a statement from director clapper and when she said that the intelligence

community did good work. it wasn't perhaps predictable to understand just how badly the iraqi army would perform under threat. >> at the same time there have been reports in which they have pointed out members of the intelligence community, people have testified before congress pointing out that this was a rising threat. >> that is right. there are misjudgments along the way. the initial concern said the government about isis or isil was about a source of foreign fighters who may come home to the united states and commit terrorist acts here. that is still a concern. they did not focus on the conspiratorial aspects. al qaeda did not try to create a california.

-- a caliphate. these guys did see the swath of territory, they have made it into an effective state. that is one thing that was missing. there was the potential threat. they saw it as containable. when isys took over falluja there was an attitude that the government was at the hotbed of sunni extremists. we will contain in their and whittle it down. we didn't expect within a few months to metastasize into this giant threat. >> walk me through the pivotal moments. >> one of the pivotal moments comes on new year's day of 2014 one 100 trucks carrying heavy weaponry race into full illusion in western iraq. that is the first time we have seen that kind of show of force

by isis. it was a wake up call to a lot of people, and should've have been a wake-up call to more that something needed to be done. the president didn't want to intervene directly using military force. it took 4-5 months until mosul fell. >> other moments? >> february testimony by the head of the intelligence agency. he did think isis had intentions to take over more territory. that came and went without being taken seriously as it should have been. the key moments are when the president gives a speech at west point he talked about how the united states shouldn't be so eager to use military power to

deal with every foreign crisis, which is something that he has been thinking a lot about. they came at a moment weeks before isis became a rampaging force. he's had to pay that since then to try to reconcile that policy of restraint he announced at west point and the policy of intervention he is pursuing. >> the question that arises the president has been having to deal with is why did he do more for the moderate forces and free syrian army? he constantly says it would not have made a difference. what is it the president believes, because he clearly believes this him of that secretary clinton, david petraeus, and leon panetta did not believe?

>> the first thing is that he really didn't want to get us dragged into somebody else's war. that is the way he sought. he saw deeper involvement in syria civil war. we could get dragged in a dangerous way that would be harmful. that drove his thinking about this, especially two years ago when secretary clinton and others were urging him to arm these moderates. the other thing he is including is these forces weren't all that effective to begin with, worked that cohesive, were basically farmers. he didn't really have the wherewithal to be an effective force. the more he would send weapons the more those would be out there and available for the various organizations to pick up and use against our friends.

>> the president and even vice president has reassured that it would not have made a difference. there is a recognition among those people who have supported it that they would not be where it is today if in fact they had not had so much room to expand in syria. >> it is impossible to know for a fact. critics say if you had intervened earlier and built up this army then there would have been something other than isis dominating. you gave room for them to rise up. even secretary clinton says today, i don't know for a fact that had he followed a policy i recommended that it would have made a difference. it might not have. there is a real argument about that.

would it have made a difference? lexie was in the present and intelligence committee r.o.k. today. this is not a fissure? between the white house and members of the cia and other places? >> that's a good question. we will have to wait and see. you have a historic tension therebetween any white house and the intelligence community when things go wrong. we did get information we needed. we gave you the information, you chose not to act on it. these kinds of frictions are very familiar. we saw that after the iraq war of 2003 began to feel bad -- the general left after the bush scapegoating of him. there is a pattern we are seeing. it is not clear the moment. they are trying hard to avoid that from happening.

>> thank you. peter baker, an assessment of the isis threat. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

>> we want to turn to the subject of how the press covers politicians. in may of 1987, gary hart led george h.w. bush by double digits in the polls. rumors of infidelity ended his candidacy. his new book shows how the heart episode marked a turning point. it is called "all the truth is out." i am pleased to have matt bai at this table. >> great to meet you. >> tell me the picture creek at the time. heart was so high in the polls, after he was taken down, not because of knowledge of things

he had done, his candidacy was over. a man who was likely to become a nominee of a party, and could have been at the white house, is taken down by marital infidelity. what is the lesson? the reason we are writing a book called "all the truth is out." >> they had not seen anything like that prior. the reason for me, i spent a lot of years now covering presidential campaigns and national politics. i have had this feeling that something that happened in that moment had a real reverberating effect and change these periods for me. i think that episode, which happened for a variety of reasons, change the eve those of political journalism from the exploration of world views and ideas, candidates and platforms.

and strategy and all that, to a real emphasis on finding the scandal and the like, to the idea we knew you were lying about something and we will expose it. it started with nixon's resignation. it manifested and bursts out. >> gotcha journalism. >> that is the quickest term for it. >> i know gary garten. i have considered him a friend at the time. he has been at this table. you talk to him a lot. >> i did. >> give me your perspective on what happened not in terms of

what has led to -- but the moment inside that bubble. >> i think hart is a fascinating figure because he was seen as the leader of the 1960's generation, the arrival of the boomers. he had been famous going back to his role as mcgovern campaign manager. but, he is 10 years younger, born in 1936 before the baby boom. there is a disconnect there. hart should understand the trends. he should understand that this generation after watergate has a different cultural sensibility about privacy, a different series of expectations. he comes from post-depression years. he has a strong sense of boundaries and privacy. he said to me at one point, he told me but his uncles about fighting the battle of the bulge, they would drink all day

and ride the rails for weeks and no one said to them what happened over there. he would never ask a question like that. he still has these sort of old war expectations that people will respect certain boundaries. when he is younger aides tell him this is changing, he doesn't really believe. >> he thought he could do things that others might consider disabling. but they would write about it. >> he thought they would go searching for it. he had been convinced that it could become a story. it had in isolated cases. when personal lives, sexual >> he thought they would go searching for it. behavior had gone out into political view the press covered it. he did not for a second believe that anybody would go putting him under surveillance, searching for the evidence, trying to find it.

he thought he was in the privacy of his home. the irony of course is that gary hart, probably more than anyone, could see around corners. but he could not see around this corner. >> intellectually. >> he could not see what was happening. >> take me to the event that led to all that came after. in terms of his downfall with respect to encounter with the press. >> the miami herald gets a tip. the tipster has not been identified until now. he says he has been hanging out with this affair, she is going to visit him in washington. it has been the speculation now, is he a ladies man?

will he get caught? yes avoid the question. they send a team of reporters to his townhouse in washington. he put under surveillance. they see him and donna rice, this aspiring actress, leaving. they determine to the best of their satisfaction that she has spent the night. that becomes controversial. he notices the surveillance. he leads them on this bizarre chase through the neighborhood. there is this really remarkable confrontation, an amazing moment in american politics. even going back and looking at it is bizarre. they confront him in an alley behind his townhouse. these reporters have the nominee of the democratic party up against a brick wall, quite literally, peppering him with questions. who was the woman in your house? what is she doing here? he refuses to answer.

they write the story that then spreads like wildfire. >> and everyone wants to know every detail. >> he fights for most of the week. there is this other truly incredible moment in new hampshire where paul taylor says on national tv, have you committed adultery? it is the first time any presidential candidate has been asked that. people in the room all remember it like it was yesterday. it was a stunning moment to hear that question asked. he said i don't think that is a fair question. >> he said i don't have an answer to that. i thought he said i don't have to answer that question. not one answer that question. i'm affronted by the question.

>> he says a version of it. he had prepped, he had been prepped for this. his press secretary had said to him on the plane you could be asked have you ever cheated on your wife. he says i don't have to answer that question. i'm not going to. he says that is exactly the answer i want you to give. in the room, under that pressure and glare, he hesitates. he is more reluctant. he has so much going on in his mind. he is looking at these reporters, some who we have known has affairs, and thinking how can they be staring at me demanding an answer to this question? >> it reminds me of a story in which somebody says i want to ask a question like that, you first. >> that should have been his answer. >> all of a sudden, what has happened? >> in a sense the conversation at that point should have been

more robust than it was. it should have been a long conversation about where we were heading. as you know this quote got in the way. the follow me around quote. after the herald puts out its exposé insights the quote. and that becomes the thing that follows him around for the rest of his life. everybody believes he dared the press. that is not true. the quote had not come out by the time that they put him under surveillance. it was used as a rationalization. there never is really reckoning with the corner that is turned. on that time on their are no boundaries and political journalism. >> if there ought to be a debate for what ought to be about? >> for me, i did not write the book to further an agenda on how we should treat privacy or

shouldn't. it is just a fascinating story of the moment when something fundamental shift in. i think the take away is larger than privacy or sex, or scandal. it is about have we created a media culture and a process that is unendurable for normal people? have we created a process that drives too many people away from might otherwise run frequent people who do not want to go through the process. >> or attracts the wrong people. >> people do not want to go to the nominating process. >> it is relative. we are looking for the things that can destroy them. there is no higher calling after hart in american political journalism then taken down the candidate. this goes back to watergate. my entire air of politics

covering politics has been about trying to expose the lie and politicians. we need to step back and reevaluate the culture we have created, whether it is serving the public and whether we are getting the leaders we deserve. >> because people do not want to run. there is this thing about hart, who is an intriguing guy, and 2003 you had a meeting with him. what was interesting about that? >> i went and saw him, i saw an item in the newspaper, him thinking about writing for president again. i thought why would a guy who has been through that want to go through it again? i called him up and say can i come out? it is one of those things you get to do as a magazine writer. i did a piece. i found him to be self-evidently brilliant. he had a great mind.

he was incredibly interesting about where we were headed as a country. he talked about the folly of iraq, that it would likely create more terrorism than it would extinguish. he talked about a coming recession or the passion for the economy. he was quiet, but deeply wounded. he didn't really want to run for president. he wanted to be heard. he wanted to be in the arena. he didn't like the piece must. i went away for a while. his story stuck with me. meeting with him stuck with me. i didn't feel there was a connection to our moment and something deeper had happened in 1987 that i hadn't come to understand. as a writer i hate to feel like i haven't gotten to the bottom of something.

i want to understand. i decided to go back. >> do you ever accept that verdict of history? that you had an opportunity to live your dream, and it has been denied, not by your inabilities, but by your flaws? >> it is hard for him. he feels guilty on a clearly. he put himself in a compromising situation, the very least. there are people counting on him. he feels that had he become president he would have been great. he feels that had he become president and minimum history change, george h.w. bush isn't president. george w. bush certainly isn't. all of the events of the last 10 years are different. he has to live with that. it is painful for him. i also think for all these years he has resisted doing the things that politicians would do if they wanted to rehabilitate themselves.

he hasn't done the interview, hasn't written a memoir. he hasn't done that because he doesn't believe that it is nobody's business. that he should have to share those things. >> he went back to live with his family in practice law. >> he did. he has written a ton of books read the question i asked, we decided he was deficient of character. we used them as the standard of deficiency for a long time afterward. i look at people to decide is character the guy who goes out and says and does whatever he has to do an expose his family to any measure of scrutiny and lack of privacy to get the prize, or is it the guy who give up his career ambitions on the principal that he should not have to talk about things, and by talking about his private life he is legitimizing a journalism that is better for the country? i is an important question. >> are we different than other nations? or puritanical?

>> i think we have always been. there are people who would argue that there is a continuum. we work through it there is an argument that art gets drummed out, but clinton becomes president. we have scandals always arrive them. it is fine. i reject that argument. i think that what we have actually ended up doing is changing the definition of leadership and suitability for office. we say bill clinton was the greatest politician of his age. what we mean most the time, he's intellectual giants, but what we mean is that he was able to evade our traps, and survive scandal in a way that very few people could. that is what we consider in the modern age to be the ultimate. >> there are two things you can do. you can ebay the trap. or you can have such popularity and goodwill that even the

people question what you might have done, they prefer a flawed president who they believe is doing a good job then a president they have real questions about. >> that's most charitable way to look at the clinton presidency. i think there is a shamelessness to do whatever you have to do to run the traps. it is a kind of political genius. the question i would ask, isn't it the kind of political genius that allows you to leap forward and tell you difficult truths that unity here? i think that is an unanswered question. >> there is a question of lying in how people perceive the person as an individual. it is one thing to have an affair.

it is another to the way you did it. how you spoke about it. it gives you, candidates that you are disgusted by. >> i think it is true that had you asked, look, franklin roosevelt or john f. kennedy or lyndon johnson, have you ever committed adultery? they would have said no. it would have lied. maybe we would have considered that disqualifying insufficiency of character. most americans consider all of them to have been pretty good presidents on balance. >> are we different today in terms of these ideas because of twitter, social media? >> that makes it harder. >> everything gets out. >> and taken out of context. whatever you have said that you didn't mean to say becomes the one-timed you missed the, issues around the world. kerry said to me talking about his experience in vietnam, he

said we are not worst things we've ever done in our lives. there is a tendency to think that we are. i mentioned that in the book. i think it is one of the core lessons of the boat and we are not actually, not all of us, the worst moments of our lives. we have constructed a system by which that is exactly what you wore and how you were judged. >> it is it likely to change? >> not all at once. i am always an optimist about journalism and politics. i think generations have the capacity to bring about change we could not have imagined. i remain hopeful about it. >> what is the lesson about the art of president obama? >> there is similarity between hart and obama.

professorial. eric and intellectuals. not people who love the touch of politics, the retail of it. the difference being that hart was ready to be president. president obama has always thought through his own philosophy and worldview on this huge stage. part of that is a reflection of our obsession with entertainment and personality. part of obama's candidacy was entertainment culture in which he was a character, a narrative. we loved it. that view of politics has a celebrity entertainment, a sporting event. it is precisely what hart warned about? >> we have the film "lincoln," how he negotiated through legislation that he wanted passed. and secondly, lyndon johnson.

the book that had been written. the sense that the country somehow want someone that will make the system work. >> here is the problem. we want a lyndon johnson you can make the system work. we cannot abide the personality that comes with that. we want someone who can turn on the charm and the bullying and the manipulative qualities and the neediness when it works in the political arena. but turn it off so they never get into trouble and never do anything untoward in their personal life, but we can't have that unless you accept politicians as the flawed, complex human beings but the rest of us are. >> when you look at 2016? are people prepared, do you think, elections are always about the future. >> i agree. >> referendums on the past.

people look to the future and they want the future to being propelled by change, by fresh ideas. they look at people that been around for a time and saying that is not. it allows someone like barack obama to break through. if they are skilled, if they have an experience that people say i feel good about supporting this idea. someone let it rip the academic record, someone who had a perfect family, someone of color, and at the same time they want change. >> people desperately want change. >> maybe we could see clinton versus bush. >> i think at the same time we want desperately want change in the system.

we also want to feel the restoration of order. particularly the parties. a lot of the voters, there is a feeling that everything is out of control. in both parties there is unpredictability. there is a comfort in reaching back to family names that you know, to moments that you remember when things seem more orderly. i think increasingly we do reach back in a dynastic way. i don't know that you can move forward as a country doing that too much. >> everything you have said to come in this book, political reporting has ever been better in the country. you agree? a degree of analysis in america media about important issues is more that any one person can even read. i tried to read a lot of it. important opinions on foreign policy, people who now do what

formally was done only in books, they give you an analysis of decisions being made. i think of what peter baker is doing about the obama administration, and how it is making its way, we are getting a quality of journalism that is really first rate. >> we are. i was just on the phone with him saying the same thing. there is more exceptional journalism about government out there than there has before. i think we have to acknowledge our role, and the story is the beginning of it. and having created a cold sure where it gets harder and harder to get that journalism because it gets harder and harder to understand politicians, and we get fewer politicians who have grand ideas. why there is great journalism being done, there is less scope and depth to our politics to cover. we have a role in that we have

to challenge. >> "all the truth is out." matt bai, thank you. ♪

>> live from pier three in san francisco, this is "bloomberg west." i am emily chang. our interview coming next. bought some flexibility in july when