>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> "birdman" is a new movie by mexican filmmaker alejandro

inarritu and follows the washed up actor once famous for playing an iconic superhero as he attempts to make a comeback. "variety" magainze writes the film is preoccupied with an aging actor psyche, but also addresses fatherhood and personal integrity and the enduring question of the legacy we leave behind. here's the trailer. >> ♪ i remember when, i remember i remember when i lost my mind there's something so pleasant about that day even your emotions haven't let go, so much faith ♪ >> how did we end up here in this dump? >> you were a movie star, remember?

>> ♪ maybe i'm crazy maybe you're crazy maybe we're crazy ♪ >> you are birdman. let's go back one more time and show them what we are capable of. >> why don't you get your wings and your bird suit, man. >> no. >> what are you looking at? >> joining me now is alejandro g. inarritu, the director, and the two of the film's stars -- michael keaton and edward norton.

here's what you said, "sometimes it is the size of a starling and sometimes the size of the vulture, but we all have a birdman." >> i said that. it is true. i definitely connect with this character. in the torturous creative process and eternal relentless

questioning of your own resolve and possibilities, that is how my -- i think we all -- my dentist, my mom, everybody. why am i doing what i am doing? i should do better. no matter what case i present. >> is this the kind of question you were asking when you said you wanted to take a break from acting? >> to some degree. i was listening to alejandro talk about -- i don't want to sound pretentious, but i was somewhat bored. i was bored with the sound of my own voice. the practicalities of a career are that ultimately you are going to repeat yourself. i need to grow up and accept that. i have repeated myself. i wasn't enjoying it myself as i had been and i didn't think i was very good. i was going on automatic sometimes. there were things in life i wanted to get settled first. i am not good at doing things at one time. i wanted to clear the field in my life and start to dial it back. at the same time, this wonderful script and director came along. >> did you hesitate at all? >> about seven seconds. >> this is the one you were waiting for. >> i had seen his films. there are not many scripts that are that good.

there are good directors, but it is a question of are you going to get asked? if you know, if you have seen 30 feet of his films, you may not automatically say yes, but you say, i probably want to be part of this. >> who is riggin?

>> he is an actor. i kind of stress that a little bit because sometimes people in the press have said -- he was a superstar. somebody said he was a bad actor. he was not one at all. you don't get to the level where he got being a bad actor. i think it is very bush league coming from other actors when you talk about people being good or bad. it could be a very courageous thing to do, try to be an actor. he is an actor who has fallen in hard times not only in his career, but his life certainly. extremely insecure, extremely needy. he decides to mount a play in new york city based on the

raymond carver short story. which he loves and has a connection to. he decides to direct it and star in it. in the process, he has a nervous breakdown. [laughter] >> enter you. >> your average -- [laughter] mike is an actor who comes in at a late hour to save the play in question. and who is a bit of an anarchist, a bit of a prima donna, a method actor. as we come to meet him and understand what haunts him and his insecurities. but, it's -- i think that it really, you know, alejandro said in the beginning this is a story about artists and performers. in much the same way, if you go all the way back to shakespeare -- shakespeare said life is a player on the stage. i think alejandro said from the get-go -- there are lots of pleasure in sticking a fork in the movie industry, artists and their pretentions. underneath this, if this is not deeply relatable by anybody who ever had that voice of their head of self-questioning, then we have not gone to the level that this should function at.

i do think -- i not only thing people have their birdman, i think people have flocks of birds that go around them. if you walk down the street in new york city in the middle of the day, you see people with their lips moving and a look staring into the middle distance because they are in the midst of that dialogue with the voice and the head that says you should have more. you made the wrong choice. why didn't you say this to him? i think it is endemic to our primate brain that we have those voices.

[laughter] >> you should say this now. >> i think the idea of a person in a spiritual, emotional crisis questioning where they are and trying in a desperate way to recover a positive sense of themselves is something almost anybody can relate to. we happen to be in the trade that we are in, but i think everybody can relate. >> absolutely. you shot it at st. james theater. >> we were lucky to have it for two weeks. barry manilow was doing a show. i saw him in his dressing room. like 17 pairs of shoes. it was amazing. it was not easy. two weeks of shooting in that space. >> your character is haunted by birdman in part. did batman haunt you at all? >> no, i was blessed to get such a thing. if you are whining about that -- wow. >> it is not like being in liberia right now.

i get it. >> when i say it is hard work, it is hard. hard does not mean stop. it means it is hard, let's get on with it. i call hard going to a coal mine every morning. doctors without borders -- this is hard. this is not that hard. i like hard and i think all of these actors would say -- no actor would say no, i don't want to do that. i may be speaking for myself, but i like it when my back is against the wall a little bit. >> do you? >> yeah. i think it is funny because -- there is the obvious extremely

superficial connection between birdman and michael's character and the fact that michael did a couple of rounds in batman. i have been in the hulk. a lot of us have danced in that kind of construct but the irony to me is -- riggin, michael's character is defined and trapped by this one character he played. if you said to me or zack or anybody that grew up watching michael's films like the ones that were definitive for you -- "nightshift," "mr. mom," "beetlejuice." to us, it was cool that michael played batman. not that he was defined by it. i think the notion -- to me, what is additionally impressive about michael's performance in the movie is that he's about as far away from that character as any actor i have met in the

sense of being completely comfortable in his own skin. he has a life much bigger than the role he plays. the portrait is really not so much about an actor or career, it is of a person coming unhinged and coming to grips with the fact that everything that has gone wrong in his life may have been because of his own ego. and, not because what others have done to him. it is a very nuanced film, character study than a glib comparison people are making. >> as an actor -- alejandro is famous for these continuous shots. do you like this? >> i liked the fact that it -- i wanted to see if i could

pull it off. it is not a question of the long takes, it is a question of everything that goes on and what he wanted to try to do. i tell you -- there are people that need some light shed upon them. the camera operator, chris. this is a yeoman's job. alejandro and chivo worked together -- the shots that were extraordinary never seemed indulgent to me. everything served the story. the long shots did a lot more than you see the first time around. there is a lot going on in those

long shots and i did like to see if i could pull it off. i like the feeling that you are coming around the bend and the horse is holding back and holding back and you are coming down the stretch and it is time to let him out. let him run. the good feeling was i am coming around the corner and i am meeting edward. you are surrounded by actors that are thinking like you. you think you're glad you're with these people. and then, of course, you screw it up. >> people ask if it is like doing theater and it is really not. if you mess up, alejandro loses a few hairs, but then you go back and do it again. there is no audience. alejandro started with short, straight hair and then -- >> like an electric shock. [laughter] >> the truth is the stakes were still the stakes of a film set. you had the chance to do it

again and that kind of stuff. i agree with michael that i would've been more concerned if i felt like it was show-offy and if alejandro was not rooting that decision to push away convention in terms of the form of the filmmaking. it was an emotional reasoning. i want to be inside the head of this character's anxiety. i want to be inside the clench that he feels as he gets closer and closer to this critical moment in his life. so, the form was really an expression of the emotional intimacy he wanted to create between the character and the audience. that becomes very exciting because then there is a really great reason to do this. now let's bend ourselves to it. >> it is nice to have actors that know what you are trying to do. >> clear conversations all the time.

i think we were very open. all of us had to be naked. all of us were walking in the same tightrope. if they fail, i fail. if i fail, they fail. nobody will help us. i cannot hide any bad scenes. it is endless and it has to be tied together. i compare this experience to playing in a band. we were playing live. we were exposing all of us. nobody will be saved. that creates a very great collaboration, family vibe that normally films do not have because it is a very fragmented experience. i will never shoot a film again like i did before. it showed me what films should achieve. i feel so lazy the way i did things. i over-abused editing. it did not need it. there was a very artificial order that filmmaking established that now i am questioning myself. this fast-paced, speed everything. you never really feel anything.

what i learned about this process is what i admired all the time about the great directors. i think all those long takes contain reality. lets you get into it. that is how we live our lives. you wake up, open your eyes and you are navigating. the only time we really enjoy -- that is why we are so addicted to fiction or movies or books because we fragment time and space. it is an illusion of mind. it is mind masturbation. that is why we say that is great. everything is synthesized, but that is impossible in our own lives. we are trapped in our own labyrinth and own two eyes. in a way, that brings you to that kind of inspirational reality. >> the only thing about that is i came away lots of time from things we were doing going this is such a fantastic way to work.

everything you are saying. i had a similar feeling from an actor's perspective, this is such a liberating way to work, but it takes for granted the idea that every filmmaker team has the virtuosic capability that alejandro and the dp had together.

i don't think just anybody can decide to do this because of those things he is saying. it takes people who were at the absolute peak of their own capacity and talents who have spent a lot of time really thinking about and challenging the form of film which he has done in all of his films. chivo is one of the great cinematographers working in our

modern era. i think that when you watch the film, i think anybody who makes films already is realizing what a miraculous achievement it is to have actually pulled off a film that does what he is saying -- it does not let the dramatic tension drop. it is very hard to do that and sustain the dramatic tension, the fluidity. >> without the use of devices. >> yeah. >> next time i direct, i will use as much editing as i can. [laughter] every way i can cover myself. >> an insurance package. you talk about the risk of the only person taking the risk was him because the option to make cuts later is really the insurance package that the director gives himself for late in the process. in that sense, he was making -- i want to say i am only the person who is actually naked. he was not a director that was willing to do anything his actors would do. [laughter] i kept saying is this something that you would do? he said no. >> emily stone plays your daughter -- his daughter. zach galifianakis plays who?

>> the friend, producer, lawyer. >> were you going against type in casting him? >> i met him one time and i felt he was one of those guys you wanted to bring home. i think he is extraordinary and smart. i think he has an incredible capacity that he shows. he is very funny. one of the challenges was basically a four-minute dialogue

scene that can be very boring. i tried to find a way to get around to see how this actor who is being introduced to him, waiting desperately. the other guy is intimidated by this guy. the camera's surrounding him and this guy is like a snake, manipulating and biting and editing and writing. he is taking over. he is already setting the tone that he is completely wrong. it is kind of crazy. the mirror of the mirror -- i will tell you, you remember we were rehearsing in l.a. we were trying to figure the scene out. when i was trying to do things and i said the camera would be here. edward said, wait, why would the camera be here? don't you think it should be here? i look at him and say what are you saying? don't you know what you are doing? you are directing me. it was mirror in a mirror of a mirror. >> that was all michael. >> you see all these things. there are things that are symbolic in it and purposely symbolic, i suppose. and then there are things that you interpret in a certain way. even that works because who is to say? it depends on what you were seeing in it.

you think it represents something and to you it probably does. that is what happens in this movie. >> the very difficult thing was to perform for the theater audience and how to perform for

the screen. all those things were interesting to explore. >> as i was saying, boy, i am glad i didn't think of this. i actually did think of it. my character plays a guy putting on this play and acting two characters. i am me, i'm riggin, but now playing another guy. i had to be the director and watch what was going on as i was acting. you know what i mean? >> i don't know how they do it. in order to be good, they don't have to be themselves. how do you do that? you have to perform as another person. how you forget yourself. to me, that is magical. >> people say this is a comeback. does that mean anything to you? >> anything is ok with me. [laughter] however you want to interpret it. i thought it was not accurate necessarily. then, you start to say, wait a minute. it is ok whatever it is. i'm working on another movie now. i will mess a couple up. just keep on doing the gig. if it works for me, i will take it. >> i think much more is that these other kinds of films as lovers of movies, as an

audience, you wait and wait to see things that are authentically different from what comes around. it is not to say it is not entertaining, but anytime anyone decries the way big-budget franchise films are taking over and good films cannot get made. i think this is the film that rebuts that idea because it is entertaining, but challenging. i think people are having a very good experience watching it. for us, the value is not what does it do for us. the doing of it -- you get into this to have this kind of experience with this kind of director, with these other actors. it is like -- there is nothing better than to work on something like this. >> if this ended up and we all looked at it and the audiences and critics and the result was -- that was pretty good. i swear i would've been ok with that. >> everything could've been so wrong.

honestly, it was a very experimental thing. there was a moment where we were doing the film and asked what was i doing. i have not talked about this to anybody. two weeks before we started shooting, i came to new york to have lunch with mike nichols. right? the king. i sit down with michael. a beautiful restaurant, italian. i talked to him about what i was trying to achieve.

i couldn't tell if it was going to be in one take -- the drums. this is the cast. he stopped doing what he was doing and said, alejandro, you are running into disaster. this is a comedy in one take? you have to work with this craft. he was right. i did it once. i stopped production. you can do that. i said i could not stop. i was panicking. i didn't know if to slap him or what. it was too late. he was right because he took me into a state of awareness about things that made me more conscious about how difficult it was what i was attempting to do. i appreciated his comments. he was right. >> that will teach mike nichols to have an opinion about comedy.

[laughter] where he gets off talking about comedy, i have no idea. >> the greatest part is and then he did it. i'm going to do it anyway. that i love. >> the thing i keep saying about everybody's birdman in this movie -- birdman is not always wrong. he is correct in some of what he says and what he feeds into your head. it is not always this negative thing. i listen to it and say maybe he is not so wrong about that. or maybe i say you are a little extreme right now. let me take something out of that. >> congratulations again. >> thank you. >> "birdman" opens in theaters on friday, october 17. do not miss it. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

rex judd apatow has said these guys are crazy funny. they are subversive, it mature, and important all at the same time.

i am pleased to have them at this table. >> thank you. look what we have here. >> what? recs the whole style of the photoshop -- photo shoot was a throwback to-school. you can see a picture of us in an old laurel and hardy set up. many forget sometimes how great comedy teams there have been. >> yes. is a sense of a pattern that humans like. when you see something you recognize, there is comfort in that. we do try, to be subversive. rex how did it happen? how did you two get together.

>> we were brought together by the community. it was a perfect introduction. i saw him on the as ctv stage. ctv stage. it was a transcendent character. the audience was dying over every movement of the character. true in the amsterdam was on the second city mainstage for a one-week showing of our show. most popular character, who was a danish supermodel who did not speak english well. >> so much brilliance in her ignorance. >> so what happened? did you just figure you belong

together? >> it yes. we went to a diner and talked about monty python and living color. to a comedytalking nerd if the person likes monty python and in living color. home later that evening, which was the next morning, and told my wife i found love with this guy. complete serendipity -- by complete serendipity, we ended up working together again. lot of tv together. >> mad tv kind of made it, didn't it? >> that congealed it. we started putting together sketches that we thought gave us the best possible. we started choreographing dances and four on the unbridled commitment to these routines.

>> with you two it is different. there is not -- you fill each other in a different kind of way. you are two comedians doing funny skits. >> we try to be complementary to each other. we try to be complimentary as well. i think there are times when we see the strength of the character to be played by this guy as opposed to that guy. we are not filling a role. >> this is a clip in which you play president obama and keegan plays luther. >> good evening, my fellow americans. before i begin, i just want to say that i know a lot of people out there seem to think that i don't get angry. that is not true. i get angry a lot. it is just the way i express passion is different from most.

so, just so there's no more confusion, we have hired luther to be my anger translator. >> hi. >> first of all, concerning the recent developments in the middle eastern region, i want to reiterate our unflinching support for all people and the right for the democratic process. >> all you dictators out there, keep messing around and see what happens. just see what happens. watch! >> also, to the governments of iran and north korea, we urge you to discontinue your uranium enrichment program. >> i thought i told both of y'all. fix your -- or i'm going to come over there and do it for y'all. please test me and see what happens. >> on the domestic front, i just want to say to my critics i hear your voices and i am aware of your concerns. >> so, maybe if you could chill the hell out for a second, maybe i can focus on some -- >> that goes for everybody, including members of the tea party. >> don't even get me started on these -- >> we will be looking for new compromises with the gop in the

months ahead. >> you know these -- will say no before i even say yes. >> i know a lot of folks say that i have not done a good job of communicating my accomplishments to the public. >> that's because you don't listen! >> since being in office, we have created three million new jobs. >> three million new jobs! >> we ended the war in iraq. >> ended a war, remember that? >> these achievements should serve as a reminder that i am on your side. >> i am not a muslim! >> and that my intentions as your president are coming from the right place. >> really good. >> that was one of the bits that we knew we had a relevant show when we came up with that one. we knew we had a show -- >> relating to the headlines of the day so to speak. >> yeah. granted, the standing president is kind of a gimmicky way to get that, but that was one way -- we felt like that scene was a

perfect usage of our strengths. we felt like it was a connection to now which was needed for us because we have so many sketches and comedic ideas that are evergreen. there are sketches that could take -- hopefully, they will be funny in 50 years.

>> did you say that luther is like cory booker with three red bulls? [laughter] >> that sounds like me. >> i never heard that. >> keegan reminds me of cory booker. they both have this infectious energy. we have not had you play cory booker. >> that is true. >> they are both very open, nice and honest individuals from what i can tell. >> they are. >> this is from the new season in which president obama gives different greetings to white and black members of the press. here it is. >> thank you and may god bless america. [applause] >> a couple of introductions. this is john. >> nice to meet you. >> peter. jerome smith. >> come on, brother. what's up, fam? you know this. >> heath williams. >> nice to meet you. >> tasha robinson. >> come on. come on. feel that? >> emily. >> nice to meet you. >> darrell stokes. >> how you doing? never forget about that because that is all we got. nice to meet you. bring it in! started from the bottom now we

here. nice to meet you. nice to meet you. >> 1/8 black. >> good afternoon. my octoroon! bring it in. >> i'm in there. >> you tucking it in? tuck, tuck? >> i'm in there. >> all right. nice to meet you, ma'am. oh, my goodness. look at this. she is so beautiful. i want another one. precious. what is her name? nice to meet you. come on. there he is. boom. >> mr. president. >> very good to meet you. >> it is a very loose piece. jordan said -- these little improvised moments. >> when the white woman came to hug you --

>> there is part of that that is based on reality. it is hard for me to go in and out. [laughter] we met him and he said i do a pretty good me, too. which i thought was funny. >> the president said he did a pretty good obama as well. how hard was it to capture? is it easy to capture that thing you have captured? >> it was not easy, but it took a week of really grinding and watching and watching but once i had it, i had it. >> what do you get to have it? is it the voice? >> it is the voice. it is more than the voice. i got the voice first and then there was still something missing.

it was a little bit measured. then, at some point, i got this -- the wisdom behind the face that he's putting up. you always kind of know he is on the next plane of social negotiation. there is a little something behind the eyes that brought it together. it also fed luther because you see a little bit of a smirk. >> there is a subtext that he cannot speak and you have luther be that. >> here is another sketch called substitute teacher. >> listen up, y'all. i am your substitute teacher mr. garby. i taught school for 20 years in the inner-city so don't even think about messing with me. y'all feel me? ok.

let's take role. jayquellin. where is she at? no jayquellin here? >> do you mean jacqueline? >> ok, so that is how it's going to be. you want to play. ok, then. i got my eye on you, jayquellin. balakay. no balakay today? yes, sir? >> my name is blake. >> are you out of your god damn mind? blake -- what? do you want to go to war? i'm for real. i'm for real. you better check yourself. >> tell me about that. >> one of our writers who we have known for 10 years. he wrote on many shows. he wrote this piece and during a pitch session he mentioned the piece to us.

he went off and wrote it. it was a wonderful marriage of this perfect concept that was put down on paper. i had an opportunity to attach a character to it. what was the sketch -- we were not going to put it online. there was something else. >> this was our biggest sketch online by far. it resonated, it hit. all the elements came together perfectly.

another element -- it was one of the first sketches that in the performing -- there was a lot we had to cut just to get the point of the sketch. it went off the rails so many times. him and his conversation with a-a-ron later. it went into an improvisational free for fall. we get the best out of it when you see us having fun. >> those kids -- another sketch where the other performance of the sketch helped elevate the sketch, they were terrific. >> who writes the material? >> there are six writers now. ourselves -- >> you are still writing? >> yeah. >> technically, it is a staff of six, but there is 10 of us that are always involved in the

writing. >> i think the most important contribution besides the sketches that we will take ourselves and write, we know what it is -- the most important directive for the writing staff is what can we pull off may be better than anyone doing it on television. >> the tv critic for the new yorker had a very good critic. she calls your bi-racialism a golden ticket to themes rarely explored on television. a golden ticket. >> it is interesting because it is a ticket that has never been quite expressed in the ways we do it. so, it feels like the time and the place all converged into this place where we have this president who is mixed. all of a sudden, the notion that we have a whole country of mixed kids, -- >> and growing exponentially every day. >> that is when we got our show at this time when there is this attention pointed towards this. i think this understanding that somewhere in mixed race love is the answer to racial hate. somewhere. or the hope that someday we will have this country and we will all --

>> look like us. >> you have to wage a different war. >> what was the president's response? >> to? >> you. >> he said, i need luther. i need him. it was amazing -- >> to help him get things across. >> it was such a satisfying thing because the only person that you really wanted any kind of confirmation about was that person. and there you are in los angeles and he is saying i need luther. it was amazing, surreal. >> here is another sketch called auction block slaves.

>> six dollars on lot a. >> nine dollars. >> going once, twice, three times -- sold. >> you had to buy him. that guy is huge. >> massive individual. >> that's two of me. >> anybody would buy him. >> i'd buy that dude. >> my question is how did they catch him? >> next. >> two dollars on lot a. >> sold. >> that surprises me. >> that is interesting. >> it seems like at a certain point do they even know what they are looking for? >> the criteria has been a little inconsistent. can a brother get on lot a? >> next. >> here we go. >> give them hell. >> eight dollars. >> sold. >> how does that happen? look at him. what can he pick? a cotton plant is like this tall. no offense. >> offense taken. >> is he not short? you are actually short in real life and the world. >> enough. i will not have my reputation tainted selling superficial bigoted slaves. >> superficial? did that really just come out of your mouth? >> this auction is over. >> it is not over. i am very strong. i can sleep in a bucket. >> i'm fast. i've got stamina. i know magic. >> my worst quality is i am a perfectionist. >> look at this -- docile. i am agreeable to a fault.

>> who created that? >> it was -- i got the idea in my head the two of us sitting next to a physically imposing guy in how that would change that dynamic. if there is a taboo subject, i am drawn to it because you know how people are going to react. you know when the first image of that scene comes up, people are going to go -- oh, no. and appropriately so. we feel like as jesters, comedians, part of our job is to bring some light and laughter and relief to all sorts of things, including the greatest atrocity that we have dealt with. the mission with that one was to take us from this place of i am not going to like this to oh, they got me.

not by exploiting victims of slavery. >> the new season -- how will that be different? >> some cosmetic changes. we have a brand-new main title sequence. the show had where jordan and i

are standing in front of an audience, but now we are driving across a desert landscape just having a private conversation inside a car. it happens in every single episode. it looks as if we are driving from sketch to sketch. >> no introducing towards a live audience anymore?

>> no. >> you like live audiences? >> yes. that's where we come from. we have done so much live in our life. when you do a lot of live comedy -- >> you know where they are supposed to be laughing. >> it is the right move for us. >> one of the things we do in sketches is make it as cinematic as possible. we wanted to not only parody and copy styles, but also do it during the entire piece. the entire intro piece looks like "true detective." >> where did that homage come from? >> i was in michigan visiting my mother and him and the others were talking about this. you could not stop giggling about this idea. why don't we do something gritty and put our stupid faces in it and make it look like one of these main title sequences. >> are we going to see a hillary clinton translator? >> you know what. i don't know how you nailed that. >> how did you know that? >> we have something in the works. we are in the middle of a very fun task of casting a hillary and the translator. >> won't that be fun? >> that might be the showstopper right there. >> season four of "key and peele" is now on comedy central. it airs on wednesday nights at 10:30 p.m. thank you. >> what a pleasure. >> thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ ♪

>> live from pier three in san francisco, welcome to "bloomberg west," where we cover the global technology and media companies that are reshaping our world. i am emily chang. president obama says action against the islamic state will not be easy. it will be a long-term campaign. he spoke after meeting with top military officials and allies with the united states. >> we are united in our goal to degrade isil. this is not simply a military campaign.