from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." e, aaniel bolger is her

retired lieutenant general of the u.s. army serving in afghanistan from 2011-20 13, 2009-005-2006 and again 2010. he retired from the army in 2013. he wrote a new book released today, veterans day, called "why we lost -- a general's inside account of the iraq and afghanistan war." i'm pleased to welcome daniel bo today. the table as you point out in your column, it is appropriate that we salute the men and women who put on the uniform and who went in harm's risk. >> we must always remember when we talk about the war, one thing we can point to with tried is the sacrifice, the bravery,

their skills and courage and the sacrifices made by their family and fellow citizens to keep them there. when men and women go to war, their spouses go to war. >> children, too. >> the title of your book is "why we lost -- an inside account of iraq and afghanistan." why did we lose? >> in the simplest term, we took we abusedservices and it. it was built out of the ashes of the defeat in vietnam and they , decisive,o do short violent campaigns against conventional forces with loins, tanks, ships. they are designed in essence to do a desert storm-type operation or kosovo. they are not designed to

replicate vietnam. we consciously turned away from that. >> didn't we try to learn the lessons from that? isn't that what post-vietnam about? with the leaders i served with, we initiated both wars with that kind of decisive campaign. afghanistan in 2001 and iraq in 2003. that sort of the undead us. we were so well with how the troops did that we thought may be thought we would fight the insurgency and win,. -- and win, succeed. themselves have to want it. we can help them as we are doing now with isis, as we are still in afghanistan. you think they want it bad enough? >> a good number do. the average people, it's a

different culture, but they are very much people who want to do things that normal people want to do. very few of them are these jihad a fanatics. if you don't do something, eventually they skew everything on the wrong direction. to see ifs out whether they will be able to rein in control. andeyond what went wrong being well advised to fight those wars in the way that we did and focus on the future, what does a president do? isiloks at the advances were making and people were telling him they are moving and they are gaining and recruiting around the world. they have a narrative. you better stop them now. absolutely.

our president has seen that. the presentation he made to the american people, the folks who work for, our citizens and all of us, he said some things that are really important man two of them show we have learned something from the episodes in iraq and afghanistan. one, it will be an iraqi fight. they will take the lead and we will support them. >> and train them. >> and provide airpower, logistics help they don't have. the other thing equally important is he said it would not be a fast campaign. it will take a long time. because they are in the lead, we will move at their speed and it will not be perfect. it will be done their way and there way is not our way. we made a commitment for a lengthy time in the president has correctly and rightly warn all of us that it will not be a quick war. it will not be desert storm. >> you support what he's done

and said so far. >> i do. it frustrates and does not give the initial satisfaction is probably an indication that it's right. unlike harry truman in korea committing forces there in the 1950's, a lot of people did not even know where korea was. in the end, although the war resulted in an armistice, we still have a commitment to the korean peninsula to this day. >> what's america's role in the world today? >> we remain the predominant power, the superpower. we have a responsibility, ourrly, to look after interests and allies around the world. i think we also have a responsibility, i think, to be clear with ourselves about our limits. we cannot be everything and be everyone. >> i'm reading the opening of the book. army a united states

general and we lost the war on terrorism." did we lose or is it incomplete? >> looking at the two phases we fought so far, iraq until 2011 and afghanistan until 2014 are lost in the others remain undecided. it's tough to say that. i wish i could come to your tonight and say we are doing ok and it will improve -- but i don't see it. those are complete or almost complete and they failed. then something good come from that and we do better next time? absolutely. i know we are continuing operations around the world to chase the remnants of al qaeda. all of those things are positives but we should not kid ourselves that these counterinsurgency campaigns were not failures. >> iraq and afghanistan were failures. >> as a u.s.-led insurgency. >> was it a failure to go into

iraq? initial invasion? it was something we looked at them now looking at the end telik, people may argue otherwise. it's difficult to tell. just as recently as the last few weeks, the new york times pointed out there were quite a few chemical weapons although degraded, on the ground. one thing we do know about saddam hussein, whether he had workable chemical weapons, he massacred his own people, invaded his neighbors -- >> including iran and kuwait. actor committing bad things responsible for the deaths of probably at least one million people. once we went in, we had to do the job properly. where we made the mistake as we did not settle for good enough. we did not let the locals take the fight to do with it could to run their countries. >> in iraq, everyone looks back

and says it was a mistake to disband the iraq he army, a effort to take the take the party and eliminate anyone who had ever been a member of the party as an effective >> force of government. you are exactly right. those were the educated people, the technocrats you needed to run the power plants and keep the cities going and looked after in the hospital. to a degree, the iraqi armed forces had already disbanded himself. the great sir john keegan already wrote about that in his book. we would have already had to call them together by the time it got to baghdad. >> some of those people are fighting with isis now. >> they are. displaced members of the sunni arab minority that were saddam's people. that is absolutely one of the

components of isis. >> in your book and the point you raise in the column, this applauded has so been by david petraeus -- and the decision made by the president against all odds that we would pour more troops in there, the conventional wisdom? >> i would tell you the conventional wisdom is incorrect. what is the nature of the enemy you are fighting? erillaa gorilla -- gu force. iraq andened in both afghanistan when we surged, immediate activity died down and they went to ground. as we drew forces down, enemy retreats and we advance. them inwhat mao told china and it is still sound.

isis is the natural result of the end of the surge. by their nature, they are temporary. they did not need a surge of u.s. troops but a long-term commitment that we would support them in their fight there. they found in syria a place to go and do, a sanctuary, a place to >> grow and get combat skills. >>absolutely. there is no doubt that they want sanctuary in serious served that even when we were fighting there and today pakistan. >> pakistan serve that before and now. that is one thing the guerrilla force needs to survive, a sanctuary. in the current strategy, it looks like the obama administration will try to address that sanctuary. how effective it will be remains to be seen. >> the surge in iraq was a mistake. conventional wisdom is wrong? >> i do think that.

the problem is we were trying to judge too close to the event. it did to certainly depress the number of enemy attacks. >> it took place at the time of the awakening as well. many of them split away from al qaeda in the enemy camp to come to our side. all of those were temporary effects. after you run out of aspirin do, it's not the underlying disease. >> but deciding to have the surge in afghanistan was absolutely a mistake. the thirddoing u.s.-led counterinsurgency. vietnam, iraq, but there appeared to be this amelioration against the surge. in the aftermath of that, as all

presidents are, armed with the best information he can get in the best military advice and decides to surge into afghanistan and it was a mistake. the local people must take the lead in a counterinsurgency. >> how many people in the military said to the president not to surge? and ie that i'm aware of was in a position to know a good many of them. time?re were we at the iraq, a serving in division commander in baghdad but my job after that, i was in the army staff as operations chief. all of the implementation surge, i was there for that. stepped up toen say, mr. president don't do this? not the chairman of the joint chiefs, not the chief of staff of the army, the marines, or the navy? a the iraq surge was

different story, as you know. the theater commander, the incoming secretary defense -- secretary of defense gates said that. >> and david petraeus. >> the designated commander. >> and in most analysis of david petraeus leadership in iraq, that's where he gets the most credit. >> and he should. his responsible for everything the unit does or fails to do. he was in knots tending figure but it's noteworthy came into afghanistan after stanley mcchrystal and had to undersea that. the majority of the troops arrived. not such good results there. >> is there an opinion in the army things might have been different if stanley mcchrystal had stayed? >> there was no doubt that stan had the vision on how to fight this network of terrorist enemies.

some things that most people in america don't know but they whold is stan was the guy organized our special forces for manhunts in iraq. and later afghanistan and other parts of the world we don't need to talk about what stan was that visionary and he did that. a year inot about command in afghanistan. his ideas were just going into effect. he had an unfortunate run-in with michael hastings of rolling stone. the president rightly said i cannot have that for my field commanders. we lost a very skilled guy. >> and he had a relationship with karzai. >> he was a special forces officer and understood the local people needed to have a leading role. >> the afghans had to fight the afghan war. and getting them to do that to minimize as much corruption as you could. >> i'm struck no one was saying this. in chuckheard this

todd with that conversation, the president cap asking the military for another option in the options that were presented -- medium, and large but always a troop increase. what it says to me, and this is where i wrote the damning statement about losing the war, what it says to me is we have a degree of arrogance -- >> we've the military? we think degree where because our soldiers are so good and our equipment is great, training is great, we are confident on our ability to fight or win any type of battle that we can do anything. if you give us a task, we will figure out a way to solve it. by its nature draws strength from foreign troops in the country. the less foreign troops, the more chance you have to defeat

that. bolgert would a general golg do about isis? >> my best advice would be in line with what we are doing, and measured u.s. response filling in what they don't have been preparing for a long struggle. american advisers on the ground long-term? >> yes, but a small number. >> 10,000? >> or less, about what we have now. whatever it would take. if you see u.s. battalions, u.s. regiment going into battle, they will dissipate and go away like the guerillas they are and wait us out. it's always possible. there's a clock that runs in washington and it's different than the clock in the theater because people once the results. >> they feel the pressure to get

-- designed forry is rapid, decisive action. there is a natural perception from the american people. you put our sons and daughters at risk. how long will this last? pick ity congress will up with hearings in a formal vote where we decide. yes, we will stick with this. if we say no, that's fine but let the public be heard. >> since you've retired, what are you doing? teach at north carolina state university. i teach those great young men and women there. >> what do you teach? >> military history. >> the book is called "why we lost." column,olger also has a "the truth about the wars," when we have just been talking about. he is a retired lieutenant

general of the united states army. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ is asetrack live multimedia theater work drying on the experience of your screens deployed in afghanistan. it lays at the brooklyn academy of music or november 15. it comes to bam including outreach to veterans communities. here's is a look at the opening sequence. bravo company second platoon. i'm from indiana. i'm 21. i was in newport news, virginia. one a bravo company, second platoon. >> it's in my blood. >> my name is corporal sean smith. first platoon 81.

>> captain john campbell, bravo company. gilligan. deming. corporal [cross talk] lance corporal. >> bravo company first platoon. i'm squad point man. i was at the front. no question about it, we are the best. .> my name is aj czubai i grew up in fort worth and i'm united states marine. >> joining me now for a conversation about basetrack

live is anne hamburger and edward bilous on the juilliard school and aj czubai a former marine who served in iraq and afghanistan. it is based on his story. i'm pleased to have them all at the table for the first time. welcome. what is basetrack live? multimedia experience about the impact of war on veterans and their families derived from real-life interviews with a marine unit in unit 18 and marine their families, mothers, wives. there is an electroacoustic score composed by two other composers that runs throughout. it really centers on the impact of war not just on the guys who served but their families as well. >> how did it come about? >> a few years ago i went to see

an exhibition that was produced by google from the streaming museum then i saw this extraordinary collection of photographs taken by a group of young photojournalists who were embedded with the 18 marines and it included portraits of the marines, the local afghani's and video and some images of the war itself. i later learned these photojournalists had some difficulty getting their images published. most of the american magazines were not interested in running articles about the afghan war and they were not really selling and perhaps a readership was not so interested so they created a website and a blog called basetrack.org. and posted their photos stories there. they started a forum that allowed the marines and their families to communicate online and amazingly and a very short time, that for them received over 5 million hits and became

one of the primary ways in which the marines and their families were communicating with each other. what i learned about all of this, he realized there was a much bigger story here in a much bigger import and social message that needed to be brought to life. i thought the arts was the best way to do it. >> the message is? >> the nature of war is changing. the way we start in the way we involve ourselves in wars is changing. the way marines communiqué, the way we engage in those environments is changing. years ago, a soldier would leave home, kiss his wife goodbye, get on the bus and would be gone for a long time. levels of's communication in which they are existing in two or three realities at the same time. it extended over a long time when we are not exactly sure when things begin or end because of the complications of media. al of this is reflective of

very different world we live in, a very different paradigm for making art. >> how does it feel for you? >> extremely surreal. i went to go see basetrack live when they came to austin. just seeing all of my brothers up there on the screen. i remember that. i know him. it was just really surreal. it took my words away. i was in the middle of the mojave desert at the time and i was listening on a speakerphone. that was one of the very first times, the first of many things that i was not there for my family because of the military i joined. i knew it was a strong possibility that if i ever chose to have a family while i was in, it was really rough. some days it still bothers me. >> you went through a

transformation. >> i did. not just then, but obviously going as a trained amerian and then actually going over there getting in combat, being wounded. it changes you. unfortunately, the change does not stop there. want to come home, you have to remember how to be a civilian again. it's a grueling battle, it really is. >> what's the story? aj's story. we conducted over four dozen interviews by phone and it was very difficult to narrow down. we picked his story because in some ways he's like the everyman. deals withainment the issues of war, it is either sensationalized or victimized.

we felt very strongly we wanted to do neither. aj is someone who enlisted and served, got wounded and came back and is doing very well. >> but he struggled. >> for a very long time. a we wanted it to be realistic per trail. the vets who have come to the show from all over the country have been really appreciative of the way in which we are telling this story, both aj and the story of the other people on the screen and their families. one of the important things that's almost never talked about is it's not just the people who serve going to war but the families. the wives, the mothers, the brothers who are waiting for their loved ones to come home and every day are worrying about this. home,en when they come they find out the relationships are different. >> i personally don't think you can go over there and deal with

all of these things and have things done to you and come back and everything is just like you just un-pause your life. it's just not possible. does the country ou and other veterans? an understanding? veterans? and >> it would be nice but i don't expect anyone who has no experience with the military to understand. that's one reason i like the message they are spreading. now that we've been in war for over a decade, you would be hard-pressed not to come up against at least one veteran per day because there are so many of us. unless you grew up in a military a lot just don't understand why we acted the way we act. >> what's the hardest thing for you to watch? >> when it talks about one of my best friends dying. that was obviously extremely rough. watching the way i behaved

because iot treatment really put my ex-wife through the ringer. >> ex-wife. >> yes. those of the best word i can find. her, me, orair to anyone. it was a bad situation. >> this is testimony from the wives of combat veterans. expectcan't really someone to go to war and come back the same day were. it's not terrible but it's just small changes that may only i would notice? be carefully have to what you say, how you present things. like i said, it's gone. their whole way of thinking is completely different over there and it affects how they respond to you when they come home. >> we were told by a few different people but if they are having a nightmare and you have

to wake them up, don't be anywhere close to their face. you see the pain, the hatred that he would never show me that. he would never confided in me. having a nightmare and i touched the bottom of his foot. saw him jump that i thought maybe he would just startle awake, he sat straight up. he jumped up and he was out of rest. that blew my mind. that was the first time i had ever seen anything like that. this more informed by theater or journalism? >> is the intermingling of the two. i don't think you can separate them. the art, the adaptation, the music am of the approach. i'm very thankful to aj and all

of the people who shared their stories with us. for me to be able to use the theater as a catalyst for social change and engagement is so meaningful. i would say this is the most meaningful production i've ever produced. >> have your fellow soldiers seen this? some of them? couple of guys came to see the show with me in austin and a few more went to the california show. my uncle saw it and he's a retired marine. >> what did they say? >> they were at a loss for words because they were so blown away. >> but it captures the reality? >> very much so. >> how about your former wife? >> she sighed in austin and the richmond show as well. saiduch on what anne earlier, they do not think about

families but it really does affect everyone. for her to tell her story as well as me telling mind, it took a lot of guts from her as well. >> have you had a conversation with the guy who plays you? >> i met him in austin and it's creepy how much we have in common. >> the actor is also a marine. research not have to that much. he just watched the tapes from my interviews. we hung out a few nights and it's kind of weird that we have so much in common. we are keeping in touch and we been texting back and forth. >> what's the biggest challenge in terms of making this work? say it's been the by the the narrative veterans community before they get in the door. it's been a bit tough to get them to come out but once they

have, there has been such an outpouring of support. i cannot believe this really does portray this. it's respectful. it's not partisan. it's a very moving. goal, and i have just been , is to bring it veterans together with civilians to promote a conversation about the impact of war. it's less than 1% of our country that goes to war and it feels like there are two americans. >> does he go to war and those who don't. >> they know very little about it. we had 700 50 high school students in los angeles and we had a post-performance discussion and we could almost not get them out of the theater. a lot of them had family members who served but there's so much but they'vebout

experienced. >> i called my doctor and i was like, hey, i need to see you today. she was like, ok, i have an opening. i'm telling her that my wife just left me. left me. my life is over. blah blah. she's smiling the whole time. what does she think is so great that she has to smile about? she said you don't see it yet but you started this because of her. >> yes, because i want to get better for my family. all right. she broke up with me. she dumped me. i was, like, yeah. are you in a bar getting drunk right now? no. she said no.

you came to me. the hard part for you is over as of right now. and it just like hit me. and i was like -- oh, she's ri ght. start tallying all the things i've run away from, the things i would not talk about but i was just trying to keep bottled up. all of a sudden, it just was not a big deal anymore. yeah, you might have a little scar but it's just skin. >> congratulations. it's really remarkable. a better time to talk about it than today which is veterans day and how much we owe those men and women who serve our country. >> we mostly owe them our understanding. back in a moment.

stay with us. ♪

>> margaret atwood is here.

the new york times said her power for fiction allows us to believe that anything is possible. her new book turns to short action for the first time in nearly a decade. it is called "stone mattress." i'm pleased to have her back at this table. welcome. why did you return to short stories? >> it just kind of happened. i was on a boat in the arctic and i just started writing about a story about how you would murder someone on a boat in the art again get away with it. there were really five people called bob on board so you can change them around. partner, graham gibson, came up with the method. he said, here is what you would do. you see why i have to be very nice to him. he had it all figured out. >> be nice to bob. >> be nice to graham if you are

murdering bob. be nice to graham and he won't murder you. the murder weapon is a 1.9 .illion euro old fossil it is shaped like a cushion and if it's split, it would make a very sharp, heavy thing. >> i think things like that are used as weapons in prison. >> probably not quite as big. you'd call them tales, not short stories. >> i did not want people to think we were in the land of total social realism although we are in a way. i don't think there are any real zombies or anything in the stories but there are certainly andle who are interested

other means. >> you would think, dear reader that short stories would be easier but it is not necessarily though. ofon the other hand, some the problems are similar in that if you cannot get the person reading past the first page, you are doomed whether it is a novel, short story, or book of history. you should probably start with "stone mattress." true in everything. you have to get their attention and send them rocketing forward. >> sometimes it's the title, the first aaron craft, the second paragraph. i guy is telling

the tale of being on a train and everything is mundane and yes to get the recipe for his wife. we think it's a pretty boring guy. what we know is that the title of the book is "dracula." we know that something is coming along. he doesn't know about it. explore all kinds of things here. anger, death, feminism. >> richard the third. cutting off hands. charles bonet syndrome is one of the stories. vision andosing your sometimes if you're just feeling quite isolated, you see little people. >> this is an actual disease? and it is usually in multiples. dancing in groups, marching in groups, but they don't interact with you. you can talk to them but they don't talk back and it is called

charles bonet syndrome because he's the first person who identified it. >> how did you find out about it? author of the man who missed took his wife or a hat. he is a book on hallucinations of various kinds. it's very interesting. it's probably something on hallucinations. >> revenge is the same. >> there is something about it that we liked reading about it even though we might never did those things ourselves. i was an early reader of edward allen poe -- edgar allan poe. some of his most famous stories are about revenge. her friend of mine, alberto mangel, a writer and collector of stories was working on collections called dark waters and black arrows. he said canadians have not written any revenge stories so i thought we will have to change

that. [laughter] i wrote my own story back then and they were quite interesting to write. >> do you like male or female characters better? >> to write about? fondly well but i'm very of gavin in this second story, a grumpy older man. he's a poet so he's grumpy and a very articulate, verbal way. he's married three of his students one after the other and the one he's married to now is quite younger than he is so it makes for an interesting situation but he's the former a fantasywho was writer. she put gavin inside her fantasy cask but inside a wine where she's kept him for about 50 years. >> you are so bad. this is the one in which

setting him on fire. >> a nursing home? >> upscale retirement home called ambrosia manner, nothing but the best. central character of that is a wilma and tobias. she's the one losing her vision and seeing the little people but tobias is telling her what's happening as he looks out the window. he sees a mob outside the retirement home and they turn on the radio and they hear that it's become a fairly widespread phenomenon and in some cases the mob has burned down the retirement home. younger people very annoyed that this generation has sucked up all the money and spending it on themselves not creating any jobs for them. --y have a movement going

i'm sorry, retirement homes. they do have a wing attached called advanced living. you don't want to end up in that one. of my favorite parts was when they have the panel discussion about it on the radio. they have this wonderful panel discussion in which they talk about why it's happening, the social phenomenon, this and that. nobody does anything about it. sound familiar? >> what the future library project? so interesting to me. i got a letter about it. it is connected with the library norway,slow -- in oslo, teaming up with a conceptual artist putting it together for them. the forest is a growing and

norway and it will grow for 100 years and each one of those 100 years, a different author will be asked to submit a manuscript to the future library. you put it in a box, sealed the box. there shall be only one copy, no images, and you cannot tell anyone what's in it. all will be known as the title and the name. and when the 100 years is up, they will open the boxes and cut down enough trees from the forest to make the paper to print the 100 books. it's like a time capsule. oldest 1,ll be the 100 years old and the newest one will only be one year old. during those 100 years, all of be soople will no longer the committee will have to renew itself a few times and the youngest authors have not been

born yet and their parents have not been born so we have no idea who they will be. >> isn't there aronoff skied doing something with your work -- isn't darren aronofsky doing something? you are so busy. >> there are other people doing the work. he's doing the mad at them -- mad adam trilogy as an hbo series. protozoan,oup called his team, and now they have chosen a writer and we will see the first script. >> will you have any role looking at the script or offering an opinion? >> we will find out. it's all a process. i'm intrigued by you,

whenever you know. it always reminds me. you have this reputation to be tough. and you say,le watch out. she does not suffer fools. >> you're not a fool. [laughter] >> what is it -- >> why do i have that reputation? once upon a time, a long time ago before you were born, , you would get on a radio show or you would have a journalist and they would say .hings like, women can't write i haven't read your book and i'm not going to. tell me and 25 words what it's about. in those cases, i would push back a bit. i would be main. -- i would be mean. [laughter] >> you didn't worry about being

invited back? or ever youhoose want to go. you have that luxury. >> that's true now. once upon a time you did whatever. i did give my first book signing in the meds sock department in edmonton, alberta. >> you spend five years of your life, you want to sell the hell out of it. >> you and the publisher are united in that view. you want it to be read. why people then say to me the future library, no one will read that for 100 years. why would you do it? books are time capsules anyway, just a much longer one.

there have been many phases of book promotion. some of them more laughable than others. mortification writers and their shame in which writers tell about the mortifying things that have happened to them while presenting their work in public. it does make you feel a lot better. they are so awful they would never happen to you, you hope. >> what do you think of amazon? >> what a loaded question. [laughter] into very are complicated conversation here because there is no doubt that onlishers quite depend amazon in many way to be an efficient distributor of books. side. the good the bad side is monopolies are bad. you don't want monopolies. he's written a book.

he's a venture capitalist who made a lot of money. >> and he thinks monopolies are good. they think they become monopolies by creating superior products. >> that's not always true. even if they have become a monopoly that way, if there is no competition, they become lazy and they start exploiting their position. that's why you don't want commerce controlled by -- >> a hearty capitalist. >> within limits. competition is productive within limits. it gets to thee stage of the monopoly it does away with the competition and then people get lazy and exploitation. thingse are so many including this. the older you get, the more you know about the plot before you begin to write because you've

lived longer, you've seen more, you know more. therefore it's a readily available to pour into the vessel of the soon-to-be book. >> probably a bit more the characters. >> you've seen people you want to model your characters after? >> i have more data at my disposal. >> lets a good way to say it. >> by my age, you've known more people. that's just the way it is. suppose the nobel commission calls you up for the panel. the panel, commission, board, whatever. >> it's a secret person. i don't know who it is. >> just one person? >> i made that up. >> could be. >> the phone rings and somebody says something. can you hear me? i'm calling from stockholm. >> the phone rang in 1970 and

there's a little voice that says, i'm a field producer and my name is oscar lewis. . >> i said, who is this really? thinkre's somebody you should get the nobel prize in literature next year? them. whole bunch of there's a lot of excellent writers around the world. >> who haven't been recognized with this tie us back a late? -- accolade? >> there's only one per year. and there are more good writers than there are nobel prizes. >> you know you are on a list. >> i know. it's a rumor. ever seen thelly list. this phantom list. >> the great mentioner. >> let me put it this way.

the devil comes to you and says, charlie, you can either keep on doing your show where win this big prize. >> i would keep on doing my show. >> exactly. >> we've won enough prizes. the book is called "stone mattress." why did they always go back to the handmaid's tale? >> it's having a moment right now. it's having a big moment on social media and elsewhere various states in the united states who have enacted some quite strange legislation having to do with pregnant women. >> like what? >> if you are pregnant and even suspected of possibly not wanting your baby you can be arrested and chained up to your hospital bed until you have the baby. tennessee just enacted legislation. of them, aller

right to life stuff. that's why the handmaid's tale -- i know. it's frightening. i told them to put that in the back. it intimidates people. >> this is great, really. you must love it because you do it so well. i love having you here. >> thank you. >> thank you for joining us. i'll see you next time. ♪

>> and i'm mark halperin. >> i am john heilemann. and with all due respect, i don't want to close my eyes. sports fans, blood is boiling. bill clinton's bloodthirsty. congress is in session. mitch mcconnell took a photo with the incoming freshman. he took a shot at the climate deal the president finalized in china.