>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> we'll begin with president obama's announcement on immigration in a primetime

address earlier this evening and he announced his plan to shield millions of undocumented immigrants roam a deportation. cracks we will build on our progress with additional resources for our law enforcement personnel tools so they can stem illegal crossings and the return of those who crossed over legally. second, i will make it easier and faster for immigrants, graduates and entrepreneurs to stay and contribute to our economy. third, we will take steps to deal responsibly with the millions of undocumented immigrants who already live in our country. about thesay more third issue because it generates the most passion and controversy. even as we are a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of laws bank. undocumented workers broke our laws and they must be held accountable, especially those who may be dangerous.

that is why over the past six years, deportations of criminals are up even percent and that is why we are going to keep focusing enforcement resources on actual threats to our security. felons, not families. criminals, not children. gang members, not a mom who's working hard to provide for her kids. we'll prioritize, just like law enforcement does every day. but even as we focus on deporting criminals, the fact is millions of immigrants in every state, of every race and nationality still live here illegally. and let's be honest, tracking down, rounding up and deporting millions of people isn't realistic. anyone who suggests otherwise isn't being straight with you. it's also not who we are as americans. the actions i am taking not only lawful but the actions taken by

every single republican president and democratic president for the past half-century react to those members of congress who question my authority to make an -- to make our system more better and question the wisdom, i have one answer -- pass a bill. both partiesk with to pass a more permanent legislative solution. the day i signed the bill into law, the actions i take will no longer be necessary. do not let a disagreement over a single issue be a dealbreaker on every issue. democracyt how our works. congress should not shut down our government again just because we disagree on this. americans are tired of gridlock. what our country needs right now is a common purpose, a higher purpose. >> there are estimated 11 million immigrants living in the united states illegally.

both parties agree the system is broken and needs to be fixed. the question is, how? the president plan have come under criticism. joining me from washington are two reporters who have been covering this, michael shear for the new york times and karen tumulty of the washington post. i am pleased to have both of them on this program. we take this conversation before the president spoke but with much anticipation and advisement as to what he is going to say and why he is saying it at this time. i began with michael shear. set it up in terms of the kind of -- the context of immigration reform coming out of the election, what happened before the election, and the intent of the president and republicans to do something. >> i think the thing to

understand is how far the president has traveled in terms of changing the way he is approaching this issue. he came into office and after getting health care through spent much time trying to persuade the congress and especially the republican congress to pass a legislative overhaul of the immigration system. on the theory you could by changing the nation's laws do more in terms of putting immigrants, undocumented immigrants, on a path of legalization. nowhere, they passed it in the senate. in the house, it went nowhere. half,he past year and come to the realization that he was going to leave office with this piece of business undone if you rely on congress. amongtarted as a believe himself and advisers that he really had no choice but to rely on congress really changed over the last six months where he came to believe while he cannot

do everything, he could do a lot to getting some of these people a kind of legal status that would allow them to come out of the shadows and work legally. >> talk about republicans in terms of how they see it. the congress does not take clays until january. the president and saying, give me something and i was asked on it and i was shredded executive authority. they choose not to give them anything at this time. they seem to say if he goes the route he is planning to go, it will be poisoning the water. >> poisoning the water, antibiotic weston in washington for the past few years would say, how could you tell? inanybody who is the washington for the past few years was that, how could you tell us more he has surprised the republicans. he has gone on in on net neutrality, making a deal with

the chinese on carbon emissions and then this. essentially, the republicans have been stressing that they believe it is another example of executive overreach by a president who they keep saying things off himself as a monarch. theye same time, understand there is a danger for them if they overreact. there's a feeling they need to step on the people within their own party talking about shutting down the government or impeaching the president. actany ways, is the kind of that also brings out the worst impulses of the republicans. prettyders here have a delicate job on their hands. on one hand, to push back against the president and to clamp down some other members. >> michael, what can the president do with executive action? peoplereate a group of

close to 4 million people that essentially will not be able to get citizenship but will be able to live without the threat of an agent, and through their door and taking part -- taking some of the family. at the same time, get a social security number to be able to present to an employer and work legally. that is a huge difference for something like 11 million people in the country illegally. approaching half of those people may be able to actually have a little presence. >> is there a difference on what the republican definition of immigration reform and the president? >> i think so. this believe that everybody talks about the system needs reforming. on the republican side, what it really means is a sense of shutting down the border, so

that no more folks are coming and. when you talk to republicans especially in the house, what do you want to do quest mark gate out --? they talk about shutting down the border. that is different than what the president has talked about, people who have lived here a long time and paying taxes, but always living under the threat of deportation. karen, both sides know that hispanic population will be crucial in the 2016 election. does it play a role in how they get to the issues? >> absolutely. the president has been backed into a corner because he promised action early this year and promised it would happen during the summer. then they announced they would delay until after the election. the president does not have much choice. for him not to do this kind of executive action now would really be breaking faith with a

very key part of the democratic constituency. and republicans have a problem here because they actually did fairly well with latino voters in the midterm election. groupnow to alienate this , which is the largest, fastest-growing minority, creates a long-term problem for them. >> there are two points from republican senators john cornyn of texas who said i believe the unilateral action which is on constitutional would deeply harm our prospects and would be deeply harmful to our nation's tradition of the rules of law and democracy. that is from corn and. from tomornyn and colbert. it as atry will see move outside of the authority of the president and it will be a

serious situation. you could see instances of anarchy. it could be violence. that's a bit extreme, i think. what could we see as a response to this executive action? >> the calculation that the white house is making and what i am hearing from a lot of lawyers is that this is the kind of case facts and the courts do not like to get involved in. dispute as a political between the other two branches of government. ' options are they could pass a bill with a veto majority to override this executive order , defund the parts of the government that would be required to implement it, and in the most extreme case, they could impeach the president. >> charlie, to add to it. to seedes are trying

what the reaction of the public is going to be. the republicans are getting that by focusing on the powers of the presidency and he is overreaching that will fire up their base and be a plus for them going forward. the democrats are getting that ing that the more republicans or relatives of the president, hispanic voters will come out. >> does paul ryan have a point that he said he has two years with a super majority and did not lift a finger and is choosing to give us a partisan bomb? >> go ahead. >> he has a point. yes, it is true. the democrats did not act not only when they do not have a majority but a filibuster. they were preoccupied with health care.

also, the ident. the republicans were going to deal with this in a few weeks -- also the idea that the republicans were going to deal with this in a few weeks was ludicrous. >> is there a frame of mind that the president really have to look at this election and he understands the result of the election and may believe it could've been different if he made different arguments or participating were a whenever, does he now, has he, had he come to certain conclusions about what he has to do in the next two years? of -- some of what we see and karen noted the right things, net neutrality and china example. some of those are things of coincident. they happened to sort of come together. at theard to look

stacking of issues and not come away with what the president and advisers have decided that relying on this congress and any congress in the last couple of years is not going to form his legacy. is he is going to shake the legacy, he will have to exert impress against the outer edges of the authority he has this presidency to act on his own. this is the centerpiece of that idea. a possible areas that republicans and the president can cooperate on including corporate tax reform and trade? that in thise idea fight is going to affect those other fights, i am a little a veryal because this is transactional system we have here in washington. the republicans and president will deal if they both decide it is in their interest to deal. ons idea that they fought

one thing, they cannot work together on another does not make a lot of sense to me. >> go ahead, michael. >> i agree. it is a transactional city. i will say that the relationship and the matters of trust matter and the extent that there may have been some hope in the city that the election would mean a turning of the page and there might be a slow building of trust that would lead to things is not the just that what happened. >> michael shear, thank you. karen tumulty, thank you. >> thank you. ♪

>> mike nichols, the director died of a heart attack last night was 83. hisxplored all mediums area career spanned five decades. he was known for his exquisite, timing and his interest in the relationship between men and women. he won the oscar for best director in 1968 for "the graduate." guess it did not come back. >> and down the hall.

>> how are you benjamin? >> fine. the bathroom is down another hall. robertson, i do not mean to be rude. >> his other film credits included "what is afraid of girl,"a woolf" "working and "primary colors." >> why did you quit politics? >> a lot of reasons. emmys for television. he won the first of his nine tony awards and the last in 2012 ar a revival of "death of salesman." richard burton said he refers to you they get exactly what he wants and conspires with you instead of directing you to get your best.

burn -- born to jewish parents, they emigrated to the united states. "atook a date to see streetcar named desire." he took up acting in college. their sketches won them a grammy. he credited the relationship with success. an aid it is a long skid on icy road and he said he do the best you can -- mike nichols was married 4 times. and 4ree children grandchildren. he appeared on this program several times over 24 years. his first appearance was in 1992 and we talked about company --

comedy and improvisation. laneen you were with the may did you think about may, did youelaine think about directing? >> we did it because it was the only job we could get. we start in chicago which was started by my friend who is now part of the new actors workshop. ine and i were in the group and that is where we met. i went back to get a job of any kind in new york and then we did this and we kept thinking it is what we would do until we start our grown-up lives. turned out those were our grown-up jobs. when ian lane and ice -- elanie and i split up in 1961, i did not know what i wanted.

and the producers suggested that i try directing. this play called "nobody loves me." i said, why don't we try? why don't we do it for a week. i said i will do it if i could get the guy i saw in the playhouse, robert redford. we were hers for a week and didn't. said this hirsute, i was i supposed to do. -- we rehearsed for a week and did it. >> you said she was the a youant idea creator with a person who knew how to move it along. the shape ofnse of it. i was not as inventive as elaine . elaine could go on. elaine was enormously inventive and still is. she came up with these

characters and she could've gone on. i was through after a certain amount of time. improvising is a great thing because you learn what the audience wants. says ok, why are you telling me this story? you have to provide certain answers. it is funny is one answer. because it is a you is another. because of the pressure from the audience while you're improvising, they are constantly in an outspoken wife saying, so, what is your -- in an unspoken way saying, so, what is your point? we are teaching you what the scene is made of. elaine had a rule when in doubt, seduce. >> seducing the audience? >> seducing me. a fight is a scene of seduction.

not that many other scenes are a scene. >> it is either loved or conflict. >> right. if you say black, i have to say white. theater arets of taught to you and this hot crucible of the audience saying, show us something, entertain us. i discovered that unknowingly unconsciously that is what i had been for getting them prepared to do. >> after the graduate and couple, woolf and odd you cannot be any hotter than what you were. did you think this will never end? i am home free. >> funny you should say that. i remember i was the man in hollywood and there was some

dinner at somebody's house and i was in line with food with my agent. turned in front of me like one of those english horror movies and weirded us and said, make them think it is forever. [laughter] i was thrilled. i love you joe because i knew it was not forever. >> you didn't know? >> of course. real life would not start until the first failure. i was saying, let's go. the catch-22 was kind of a failure. i was thrilled to see them i kind of enjoyed it. >> you wanted failure to come so you can move on because you knew it was inevitable? >> yes. as stop -- it was something somebody made up. everybody's on a pendulum.

>> did you say i am not that good? in my best days, i am not as good as i think. >> of course. at every point i said that. said let me remember this so have a little bit of something in a databank for when they say i am no good at all and i know that is not true either. somewhere in between. we work on a pendulum. i loved the pendulum will cause as it is sleeping and to be -- swinging into the bad part is no it is gathering energy. >> where is it now? >> i have no idea because i do not look. >> what is the magnet of directing for you? of thebeen to the hell script and you do it again and you keep telling the story and saying over and over and then what happens and what happens

next and then what and what is after that. that's what the audience says. and then what? and you cast as well as you can. you work with the director of photography and do all those things. it takes you over and tells you what to do. in a certain point of shooting, it picks you up. >> even a movie shot out of sequence? >> absolutely. going tos what is become. pieces jumping because they are alive and people laying there dead. you automatically learn to cut out the data pieces -- dead pieces. the theater is about right now. this is happening for the first time now for you tonight. it is about the connection of the actual audience. that is the excitement.

for the director, very different. the play is about where everybody is on the stage, the physical stage in who the actors are. , this mysterious thing where they take you over and movies are dreams anyway. thees are our dreams and ones we make. >> it has been written about you woolf" and"virginia "the graduate," they said this guide will redesign film. you became less of that. something else. are you comfortable with that, does it make any sense? >> it is the only thing that anybody says about anybody who does well at the beginning. orson welles told me that first of all, never think about how

to are doing in relation that kind of concept that people have. career,the shape of my let them do that. you just do it. he said, there are lives that in descebtsomewhere and speaking for him, he was not having any other way. an exciting life to have. i said, it is the only observation ever made about an american artist. it never goes in the opposite direction. , i readot name someone in a film encyclopedia, one of my heroes, this bio said he made forth, lost his

talent at 52. it is in the encyclopedia. i said are you nuts? he made eight of the greatest comedies. not enough. he lost his talent. that is how it looks. how it looks later, we do not know. --i spoke to know goals nichols about the intersection of movies and life. and not veryrange comfortable feeling to look back. i do not tend to extrapolate principles about whatever i've as soike i am the bird has to be the ornithologist. i do not know. i do not spend a lot of time thinking about it. those who look back say the following things. if you look at the things of

your movies, is a bisexual adventurism and relationships and the trail -- sexual adventurism and relationships. >> those are my concerns. >> the main theme. >> elaine were in a comedy group in chicago at the turn-of-the-century -- [laughter] did -- we improvised various scenes and elaine and i ended up doing something that the group called people scenes. which i guesstimate that they were only about people. no more to them than that. it is what is always interested me, the things that go on between people, especially the unstated lesson they immediately visible things that go on between people.

and there is something about a group of people looking at something all apprehending something unspoken that is very excited to meet. it is what i love in the theater and what i love in a movies. you go toe said when a movie what you want to do is find something that makes you understand yourself more and experiences better. >> the first thing you want is an experience, period. you want the movie to give you an experience. if you are able and that god, ince to say, oh, my know that man. i am that man. that is a particular kind of experience that at least some of us feel like very much. doyou ask a movie as we also that movies transfigure

everything and ourselves and take you somewhere that you have not been, somewhere that does that is perfectly legitimate experience to wish for. as many experiences are. there are not a or bad in these things. it is what turns you on. so much about us every minute. television is so much about our processes that the things we read are so much about ourselves and our processes. it is understandable that we want to go to mars and we want to get out of here for a couple of hours. >> who hired you for "barefoot of the park?" >> the producer. he caught and asked if i want to direct this play. let's see if i am any good.

we did. >> you said before as you it wased with elaine, like everything you had been trained to learn prepared you to do the thing you were doing -- born to be a director. >> so it turned out. the first time of many times that i am interested in -- it sounds so pretentious. in our work because i really didn't discover it was the thing -- did discover it was a thing for which i was prepared. --how it plays out >> very interested. i think it is a great way to justify my laziness. leading the unconscious work. [laughter] it frees you from doing anything much. i am interested, very interested by the thing you find yourself

dealing and you are not sure why that leads -- and the example i always use, perhaps too often, the last scene in "the graduate," when we shot at the church -- sitting on the bus. i said to dustin hoffman went home i had been very little, get on the bus. get on the bus. and they looked terrified. and tears in their eyes. why am i treated them like this? i said, i know why. it is the end of the movie. they are terrified. [no audio] >> did i plan this?

not at all. i did not have a thought in my head. i am very interested by that aspect of what we do. one of the things we are dealing with. [laughter] hey, swampy. crazy yes, martha? can i get you something? >> short. you can light my cigarette. -- >> short. -- sure. >> a man can only deal with so much. i will hold your hand. your bottles but i was not a light your cigarette and get as they say is that. >> feels for you are like dreams? >> they are like dreams and they

wayain messages in the same , strangely personal in the same way. and in some way, they are coming at least partly of our conscious. -- well withth actual dreams we have had. >> when you make a movie, it finds a life of its own. that's the nice thing about making a movie. if you are lucky, if it is any good, at a certain point, it jumps in your head and is alive. pretty much begins to tell you what it wants which is a moment i always love. it is my turn a light on and off. some scenes have to stay and some have to go on the spot.

and the movie begins to take its own path. >> didn't like the editing process? >> very much. i liked all of it. i used to be terrified of shooting. it is now or never. in every sense. i now like every stage of it. the editing process is great. if only life hadn't editing process. [laughter] >> you can choose to make it the way you want to. look as good as it possibly can. you can make it -- >> you can follow secrets. maybes not quite clear or we need her looking at him yet again so we know that is why he crosses. we wish weingle

could do in the life. >> how is filmmaking today all the way back to who is afraid of virginia woolf? how are you different as a filmmaker with all of this experience? >> very little. the only thing is i am a little nicer than what i was. crazed and i as do not feel the great pressure and i do not have to drive everybody else crazy. i have learned for me that if you have a nice time and do not yell and scream and carry on, it happens just as well. it is no worse. sometimes it is better because people were happy. >> when you were 30, you hit the on with 29 and you went "was afraid of virginia wolf?' knowledge," and all

things in between. ,t having so much attention does it set up unfair standards for you as an artist? are you running against mike nichols? >> no, that is where my sense of reality comes in. i once asked marlo brando weathered [laughter] how tough it was when he first came to hollywood to do whatever was "streetcar" or whatever his managehard -- how did he with everybody making such a fuss. he said, honey, i do not see all of that. i was so busy trying not to go crazy. that is the answer really. you have other things. you have other fish to poach.

>> in 2005, i interviewed mike for "60 minutes." we talked about his love for the theater. >> ♪ when yous it you do sit around a tape like this with your actors before you begin were her steps -- rehearsals? what did you wanted them to shed? >> it is different with the different pieces, of course. my concern always is whatever it tragedy,r ludicrous or it is really the same. there are certain questions. audience,ll, for the why are we doing this? what is our point? the audience, why have you

called us together? you have to have an answer. how can i say this? the first thing you have to say as you know in your job and elaine and i used to be comedians, you have to do something, do not worry, you are in good hands and we know what we are doing. the second is also without words and what we are doing is this. do, you will come back to the theater? >> i hope so. it gives you something back. admire, hei most comes back and works and works and works. he never stops. he never stopped improving and working on it and doing a hard thing and doing a harder thing.

being able to get inside of our head to get why he do it and what it means to him. that.re >> that is it. it gives you something. the big difference in the theater is that you are actually in front of people. and they are telling you something. you are telling them something. you are connected. you are communicating with them. the great actors i have worked with, without any exception, including the guys in today show you.some people, it floors they have a deal with the audience. they can pretty much do whatever they want with the audience because they are so connected.

them to the audience and the audience to them. they remember what it is they love about this. whatn the audience hears what they are thinking, why they are there, what they are sending out. it is a communication, a connection. >> many of the great actors and directors have paid tribute to mike nichols. >> he is a major influence because i looked up to him so much. now because he had more experience because i am older and he and i directed a play when we asked him to do "barefoot in the park." he was out west doing a play. and he was so smart. what i said in the book was when i finish the play i wanted to work with two people. the most honest and the smartest.

joa wasn the most honest and she would tell me how she felt. she was the one who became a critic of it. she cannot help but tell me what you feel about this and that. mike would take it apart and show me what to do to make it better without being specific. >> he made "the odd couple" better? >> he made better by making me better. he never said you do with this word he does this or she does that. he was a it is not working. he will, at 3:00 a.m. and asked, are you sleeping? the best example is in the book when we were up in new haven and i watching the play. he said, what do you think? i said, really good, mike. i love this at the end. he said the end is no good.

i said, we will find out tomorrow night. he said, why find out tomorrow night? it was 12:30. we sat in the lobby. i hated him after that time. i wanted to quit. i truly did not feel that way. he made me sit there for two hours and after throwing ideas at each other which we were saying terrible, awful, forget it. we spent an hour quiet. i said i will get to it. he said what if it snows and he gets a shovel out of the closet has said there is looking like -- did not say if it was good. rehead i will see you at tomorrow andr ending a work. i thanked him for pushing me. two>> mike nichols, the

that really do this kind of thing. really get to know each other. rehearsing. there's a confidence that you do not normally have. colors andmary "lucky numbers," but getting a feel for each other, the stories, it is more important just a wrapping you all do that almost the personal. talks about that he wants you to open up and have people talk that may be embarrassing or may not want to know. you are somehow. went to filmw i school. i wrote to movies for mike. he was the greatest. he could get people to say the most amazing things. i cannot get anybody to say things like that. >> he does that by offering up himself. >> i offer myself.

i degrade myself. [laughter] --why does mike michaels mike nichols choose your? uic had talent but why did he talentyou -- you icy had but why did he choose you? >> blue eyes, blonde hair. >> none of that is in you. none.e, none, radford and get tested a lot of people. he was scraping the bottom of the barrel right time he got to me. i do not think he had anything that he knew anything about me. i was coming off a plate with reviews. they sent it to me to read. i read the script and i got the book and read the book. i had a panic attack. are they trying to warn my

career which is just beginning? i am getting character parks. here is a leading man in -- i am getting character parts. the auditions were in los angeles. when he heard the unknown actor is turning the audition, he called me up and talk me into doing it. >> what did he tell you? >> he asked, you do not want to do it because? i am a character actor and i am not six feet or blonde. he asked, did you think it was funny? i said, i did. he said you do not want to do it because you are jewish? he said maybe the character is jewish inside and that is what made me do the audition. later, i do not think too long ago in an interview that he never really understood why he cast me.

>> which is a question i asked you. >> he said and i did not know until i read it, i think i was casting hoffman because i think the character was my alter ego. yes. he did not think of himself as attractive. would i know as a fact after i finished shooting, i want to new york i made $3000. i started collecting unemployment. after the film is edited in los angeles, they started showing it to homes with screening rooms. >> that's what you do in hollywood. they show it to their house. -- pals. >> in separate articles and interviews years later, i read for the first time that people came up to them after a scoring as said what a great film you had if you did not miscast the lead.

that is what the town felt. >> but not mike? >> that as one of the most courageous area >> he was an actor to surprise him. my guess is you surprised him. notgave a look he had thought of and he liked it. >> you know what he did? he came from the theater and he did what we were taught to do whether adle and you start with ar zero. and not try to do anything. you say the words and things will come to you. he allowed us to do that in rehearsal. he said do not play characters. it goes back to what i was saying before. he did not predetermine what anything should be area -- should be. i can give you samples. he said, do you think this character is a version? --

virgin? said, no. but i do not think he screwed his mother's best friend. arsi a saidng think about the first time you ever made out with a girl. he asked how old were you? i said about 15. and i wasano player going to play and we were waiting in the basement. al in doing blackfacejolsen issues waiting to be called as somehow we looked at each other and started to experiment sexually. i cannot get any closer because she is in a blackface. i told him the story and i put my hand on her breast. we are facing the wall fully dressed.

she let me do it. i told nichols the stored. the story. i said, i wanted to go to the back of her and she has on a just hold her breast and let's see what happens. i did it. she had been looking at her sweater and she acknowledged that i was holding her breast. she tried to rub off. it was brilliant. i started laughing in those days, well probably today, if you are an unknown actor, if you are caught laughing, that's the worst thing you can do because you're breaking character. not last, do, do not last, you will get fired. i cannot get myself together. i started banging my head against the wall and he started laughing. that is in the movie.

the whole thing does in the movie. -- is in the movie. >> certainly. thank you. >> you are welcome. benjamin, would be easier for you in the dark? >> he kept putting in axis that happened from bringing forth what he thought. deead at 83.ls, 3. dead at 8

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