>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> we begin with president obama's announcement on immigration. in a primetime address earlier

this evening and he announced his plan to shield millions of undocumented immigrants roam a deportation. >> first, we'll build on our progress at the border with additional resources for our law enforcement personnel so that they can stem the flow of illegal crossings and speed the return of those who do cross over. second, i'll make it easier and faster for high-skilled immigrants, graduates and entrepreneurs to stay and contribute to our economy, as so many business leaders proposed. third, we'll take steps to deal responsibly with the millions of undocumented immigrants who already live in our country. i want to say more about this third issue, because it generates the most passion and controversy. even as we are a nation of immigrants, we're also a nation of laws. undocumented workers broke our immigration laws, and i believe that they must be held

accountable, especially those who may be dangerous. that's why over the past six years deportations of criminals are up 80%, and that's why we're going to keep focusing enforcement resources on actual threats to our security. felons, not families. criminals, not children. gang members, not a mom who's working hard to provide for her kids. we'll prioritize, just like law enforcement does every day. but even as we focus on deporting criminals, the fact is millions of immigrants in every state, of every race and nationality still live here illegally. and let's be honest, tracking down, rounding up and deporting millions of people isn't realistic. anyone who suggests otherwise isn't being straight with you. it's also not who we are as americans.

the actions i'm taking are not only lawful, they're the kinds of actions taken by every single republican president and every single democratic president for the past half century. and to those members of congress who question my authority to make our immigration system work better or question the wisdom of me acting where congress has failed, i have one answer -- pass a bill. i want to work with both parties to pass a more permanent legislative solution. and the day i sign that bill into law, the actions i take will no longer be necessary. meanwhile, don't let a disagreement over a single issue be a deal breaker on every issue. that's not how our democracy works, and congress shouldn't shut down our government again just because we disagree on this. americans are tired of gridlock. what our country needs right now is a common purpose. >> there are estimated that 11 million immigrants living in the united states illegally. both parties agree the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

the question is, how? the president's plan has come under sharp criticism. joining me from washington are two reporters who have been covering this, michael shear for the "new york times" and karen tumulty of the "washington post." i am pleased to have both of them on this program. we tapped this conversation before the president spoke but with much anticipation and advisement as to what he is going to say and why he is saying it at this time. i began with michael shear. set it up in terms of the kind of -- the context of immigration reform coming out of the election, what happened before the election, and the intent of the president and republicans to do something.

>> i think the thing to understand is how far the president has traveled in terms of changing the way he is approaching this issue. he came into office and after getting health care through spent much time trying to persuade the congress and especially the republican congress to pass a legislative overhaul of the immigration system.

on the theory you could by changing the nation's laws do more in terms of putting immigrants, undocumented immigrants, on a path of legalization. it did not go nowhere, they passed it in the senate. in the house, it went nowhere. he essentially, over the past year and half, come to the realization that he was going to leave office with this piece of business undone if you rely on congress. what started as a belief among himself and advisers that he really had no choice but to rely on congress really changed over the last six months where he came to believe while he cannot do everything, he could do a lot to getting some of these people a kind of legal status that would allow them to come out of the shadows and work legally. that is what he is doing. >> talk about republicans in terms of how they see it. obviously the congress does not take clays until january. the president is saying, give me something and i would act on it and i would shred executive authority. they choose not to give them anything at this time. they also seem to say if he goes the route he is planning to go, it will be poisoning the water. >> of course, poisoning the water, anybody who is the in washington for the past few years would ask, how could you tell?

how would that be any different than what we have had? the president has surprised the republican since the election. he has gone all in on a number of issues, net neutrality, making a deal with the chinese on carbon emissions and then this. essentially, the republicans have been stressing that they believe it is another example of executive overreach by a president who they keep saying things off himself as a monarch. at the same time, they understand there is a danger for them if they overreact. there's a feeling they need to step on the people within their own party talking about shutting down the government or impeaching the president. in many ways, this is the kind of act that also brings out the worst impulses of the republicans. the leaders here have a pretty delicate job on their hands. on one hand, to push back against the president and to tamp down some other members. >> michael, what can the president do with executive action?

>> what they said they can do is to create a group of people close to 4 million people that essentially will not be able to get citizenship but will be able to live without the threat of an ins agent coming to their door and taking some of them back to their country. that is a huge difference. at the same time, get a social security number to be able to present to an employer and work legally. that is a huge difference for something like 11 million people in the country illegally. something like approaching half of those people may be able to actually have a little presence. >> is there a difference on what the republican definition of immigration reform and the president's definition of immigration reform?

>> i think so. you have this believe that everybody talks about the system needs reforming. on the republican side, what it really means is a sense of shutting down the border, so that no more folks are coming in. when you talk to republicans especially in the house, what do you want to do? that's what they talk about. they talk about shutting down the border. that is different than what the president has talked about, people who have lived here a long time and paying taxes, but always living under the threat of deportation. >> karen, both sides know that hispanic population will be crucial in the 2016 election. does that play a role in how they get to the issues? >> absolutely. the president has been backed into a corner because he promised action early this year and promised it would happen

during the summer. then they announced they would delay until after the election. the president does not have much choice. for him not to do this kind of executive action now would really be breaking faith with a very key part of the democratic constituency. and republicans have a problem here because they actually did fairly well with latino voters in the midterm election. they know to alienate this group, which is the largest, fastest-growing minority, creates a long-term problem for them. >> there are two points from republican senators john cornyn of texas who said i believe the unilateral action which is on constitutional would deeply harm our prospects and would be deeply harmful to our nation's tradition of the rules of law and democracy. that is john cornyn and from tom colbert.

the country is going to go nuts because it will see it as a move outside of the authority of the president and it will be a serious situation. you could see instances of anarchy. you could see violence. that's a bit extreme, i think. what could we see as a response to this executive action? >> the calculation that the white house is making and what i am hearing from a lot of lawyers is that this is the kind of case facts and the courts do not like to get involved in. they see as a political dispute between the other two branches of government. congress' options are they could pass a bill with a veto majority to override this executive order, defund the parts of the government that would be required to implement it, and in the most extreme case, they could impeach the president. >> charlie, to add to it. both sides are trying to see what the reaction of the public is going to be. the republicans are betting that

by focusing on the powers of the presidency and he is overreaching that will fire up their base and be a plus for them going forward. the democrats are betting that the more republicans rile against the president, hispanic voters will come out. >> does paul ryan have a point that he said he had two years with a super majority and did not lift a finger and is choosing to give us a partisan bomb? >> go ahead. >> he has a point. and he doesn't have a point. yes, it is true. the democrats did not act not only when they do not have a majority. they were preoccupied with

health care. also, the idea that the republicans were going to deal with this in a few weeks -- also the idea that the republicans were going to deal with this in a few weeks was ludicrous. >> is there a frame of mind that the president really have to -- has looked at this election and he understands the result of the election and may believe it could've been different if he made different arguments or participating were a whenever, does he now, has he, had he come to certain conclusions about what he has to do in the next two years as president? >> part of -- some of what we see and karen noted the right things, net neutrality and china example. some of those are things of coincidence.

they happened to sort of come together. it is hard to look at the stacking up of issues and not come away with what the president and advisers have decided is that relying on this congress and any congress in the -- these last couple of years is not going to form his legacy. he is going to try to shake that legacy. he will have to exert impress against the outer edges of the authority he has this presidency to act on his own. this is the centerpiece of that idea. >> karen, what about a possible areas that republicans and the president can cooperate on including corporate tax reform and trade? >> i think the idea that in this fight is going to affect those other fights, i am a little skeptical because this is a very

transactional system we have here in washington. the republicans and president will deal if they both decide it is in their interest to deal. this idea that they fought on one thing, they cannot work together on another does not make a lot of sense to me. >> go ahead, michael.

>> i agree. it is a transactional city. i will say that the relationship and the matters of trust matter and the extent that there may have been some hope in the city that the election would mean a turning of the page and there might be a slow building of trust that would lead to things. this is not suggest that this will happen. >> michael shear, thank you. karen tumulty, thank you. >> thank you. ♪ >> mike nichols, the director, died of a heart attack last night was 83. the legendary entertainer export all mediums. his career spanned five decades. he was known for his exquisite, --his exquisite comic timing and his interest in the relationship between men and women. he won the oscar for best director in 1968 for "the graduate." >> i guess this is not the bathroom, is it? >> it's down the hall. >> how are you benjamin? >> fine. the bathroom is down another hall. look, mrs. robertson, i do not mean to be rude. >> mike nichols' other film credits included "what is afraid of virginia woolf" "working girl," and "primary colors."

>> why did you quit politics? >> there are a lot of reasons. >> he won emmys for television. he won the first of his nine tony awards and the last in 2012 for a revival of "death of a salesman." richard burton said he appears to defer to you to get exactly what he wants and conspires with you instead of directing you to get your best. born to jewish parents, they emigrated to the united states. his passion for theater began at 16 when he took a date to see "a streetcar named desire." he took up acting in college. he met a lane made. their two-person sketches won them a grammy. he credited the relationship with success. he said it is a long skid on an icy road and you do the best you can to stand the road. you have to have the terror if you're going to do anything worthwhile. mike nichols was married 4 times. is survived by diane sawyer, his three children and 4 grandchildren.

he appeared on this program several times over 24 years. his first appearance was in 1992 and we talked about comedy and improvisation and directing. >> when you were elaine may, did you think about directing? >> we did it because it was the only job we could get. we start in chicago which was started by my friend who is now part of the new actors workshop. elaine and i were in the group and that is where we met. i went back to get a job of any kind in new york and then we did this and we kept thinking it is what we would do until we start our grown-up lives. it went on and turned out those were our grown-up jobs. when elaine and i split up in 1961, i did not know what i was. i was happily comedy team. and the producers suggested that i try directing. this play called "nobody loves me." i said, why don't we try? it was in summer stock. why don't we do it for a week. i said i will do it if i could get the guy i saw in the playhouse 90, robert redford. we rehearsed for a week and did it. during rehearsal, i said this is what i was supposed to do.

>> you said she was the brilliant idea creator and you were a person who knew how to move it along. had a sense of what? >> i had a sense of the shape of it. i was not as inventive as elaine. elaine could go on. elaine was enormously inventive and still is. she came up with these characters and she could've gone on. i was through after a certain amount of time. i needed to move it on. also, i learned improvising is a

great thing because you learn what the audience wants. the audience says ok, why are you telling me this story? you have to provide certain answers. because it is funny is one answer. because it is you is another. because of the pressure from the audience while you're improvising, they are constantly in an unspoken way saying, so, what is your point? that pressure is a great principle for teaching you what the scene is made of.

elaine had a rule when in doubt, seduce. >> seducing the audience? >> seducing me. a fight is a scene of seduction. not that many other scenes are a scene. >> it is either love or conflict. >> right. if you say black, i have to say white. these elements of theater are taught to you in this hot crucible of the audience saying, show us something, entertain us. when i started directing, i discovered that unknowingly unconsciously that is what i had been preparing to do. >> after the graduate and virginia woolf and odd couple, you cannot be any hotter than what you were. how was that for you?

did you think this will never end? i am home free. >> funny you should say that. i remember i was the man in the moment in hollywood and there was some dinner at somebody's house and i was in line with food with my agent. the man in front of me, joe mankowiecz, turned like one of those english horror movies and leered at us and said, make him think it is forever. [laughter] i was thrilled. i loved joe because i knew it was not forever. >> you didn't know? >> of course. i knew that in a way real life would not start until the first failure. i was saying, let's go. the catch-22 was kind of a failure. i was thrilled to see -- i was fine and kind of enjoyed it. >> you wanted failure to come so you can move on because you knew it was inevitable? >> yes.

and stop this crap of mr. midas gold touch -- it was some hook that somebody made up. everybody's on a pendulum. >> did you say i am not that good? >> at every point. >> in my best days, i am not as good as i think. >> of course. at every point i said that. i also said let me remember this so have a little bit of something in that bank for when they say i am no good at all and i know that is not true either. somewhere in between. we all live and work on a pendulum. i loved the pendulum because as it is swinging into the bad part, it is gathering energy. >> where is it in its arc right now? >> i have no idea because i do not look. >> what is the magnet of directing for you? >> the magnet of directing a

movie is that you beat the hell of the script and you do it again and you keep telling the story and saying over and over, then what happens and what happens next and then what and what is after that. that's what the audience says. they say, and then what? and you cast as well as you can. you work with the director of photography and do all those things. it takes you over and tells you what to do. in a certain point of shooting, it picks you up. >> even a movie shot out of sequence? >> absolutely. it just creates its own life. it decides what is going to become. it's like in the cutting room.

there are pieces jumping because they are alive and people laying there dead. you automatically learn to cut out the dead pieces. >> how was stage different? >> the theater is about right now. this is happening for the first time now for you tonight. it is about the connection of the actual audience. that is the excitement. for the director, very different. the play is about where everybody is on the stage, the physical staging and who the actors are. the reason i am besotted with movies is this mysterious thing where they take you over and -- movies are dreams anyway. movies are our dreams and the ones we make our two. >> it has been written about you that after "virginia woolf" and "the graduate," they said this guy will redefine film. you became less of that. youth became not this all tour, but something else. are you comfortable with that, does it make any sense?

>> it is the only thing that anybody says about anybody who does well at the beginning. orson welles told me that first of all, never think about how you are doing in relation to that kind of concept that people have.

what is the shape of my career, he said, "let them do that. you just do it." he said, "there are lives that start high somewhere, some start in descent," and speaking for him, he was not having any other way. that was a thrilling and exciting like to have. i said, it is the only observation ever made about an american artist. it never goes in the opposite direction. you cannot name someone, i read in a film encyclopedia, one of my heroes, this bio said he made this and so forth, lost his talent at 52. it is in the encyclopedia. i said are you nuts? he made eight of the greatest comedies. not enough. he lost his talent. that is how it looks when you right on top of it. how it looks later, we do not know. >> i spoke to mike nichols at the metropolitan art -- museum of art about the intersection of movies and life. >> it is a strange and not very comfortable feeling to look back. i do not tend to extrapolate principles about whatever i've done like i am the bird as so -- and someone else has to be the ornithologist.

i do not know. i do not spend a lot of time thinking about it. >> those who look back say the following things. if you look at the themes of your movies, it is sexual adventurism, men and women, relationships, betrayal, honor, and friendship. >> yes, those are my concerns. >> the main theme. >> win elaine and i were in a comedy group in chicago at the turn-of-the-century -- [laughter] when we all did -- we improvised various scenes and elaine and i ended up doing something that the group called people scenes. which i guess meant that they were only about people. there was no more to them than that. it is what has always interested me, the things that go on between people, especially the

unstated, less than visible things that go on between people. and there is something about a group of people looking at something all apprehending something unspoken that is very exciting to me. it is what i love in the theater at its best, and what i love in a movies. >> you have said when you go to a movie what you want to do is find something that makes you understand yourself more and experiences better. >> the first thing you want is an experience, period.

you want the movie to give you an experience. if you are able in that experience to say, oh, my god, i know that man. i am that man. that is a particular kind of experience that at least some of us still like very much. if you ask of movies as we also do that movies transfigure everything and ourselves and take you somewhere that you have not been, somewhere that does not exist, that is perfectly legitimate experience to wish for. as many experiences are. there are not good or bad in these things. it is what turns you on. life has become so much about us every minute. television is so much about our processes that the things we read are so much about ourselves and our processes. it is perfectly understandable that we want to go to mars and we want to get out of here for a couple of hours.

>> who hired you for "barefoot of the park?" >> the producer. he called me up and asked if i want to direct this play. let's take it to summer stock and see if i am any good. we did. >> you said before as you mentioned with lee strasburg and with elaine, it was like everything you had been trained to learn prepared you to do the thing you were doing -- born to be a director. >> so it turned out. the first time of many times that i have become interested in -- it sounds so pretentious. the part that our unconscious plays in our work, because i really did discover it was a thing for which i was prepared. >> how it plays out -- >> very interested. i think it is a great way to justify my laziness.

i can say that i am letting the unconscious work. [laughter] it frees you from doing anything much. i am interested, very interested by the things that you find yourself doing and you're not sure why, that leads -- and the example i always use, perhaps too often, the last scene in "the graduate," when we shot at the church -- sitting on the bus. i said to dustin hoffman, get on the bus. get on the bus. and they looked terrified. they had tears in their eyes. issa, what is wrong with me?

-- i said, "what is wrong with me? why am i treating them like this?" i said, i know why. it is the end of the movie. they are terrified. [no audio] >> did i plan this? did i know it? not at all. i did not have a thought in my head. i am very interested by that aspect of what we do. it is one of the things we are dealing with. [video clip] >> hey, hey, swampy. >> yes, martha? can i get you something? >> sure. you can light my cigarette. >> there are limits. a man can only deal with so much. now i will hold your hand. i will tote your gin bottles, but i was not a light your cigarette and get as they say is

that. >> films for you are like dreams? >> yes. they are like dreams and they contain messages in the same way. they are strangely personal in the same way. and in some way, they are coming out of -- at least partly of our unconscious as we watch them because they are connecting with with actual dreams we have had. >> when you make a movie, it finds a life of its own. silkwood. >> that's the nice thing about making a movie. if you are lucky, if it is any good, at a certain point, it jumps in your hand and is alive.

it pretty much begins to tell you what it wants which is a moment i always love. it is like turning a light on and off. some scenes have to stay and some have to go on the spot. they have died overnight. and the movie begins to take its own path. >> do you like the editing process? >> very much. i now like all of it. i used to be terrified of shooting. it is now or never. in every sense. i now like every stage of it. the editing process is great. if only life had a editing process. [laughter] >> you can choose to make it the way you want to. you can make it look as good as it possibly can. >> that is right. you can make it --

dance -- you can make it -- >> you can follow its secrets. this is not quite clear or maybe we need her looking at him yet again so we know that is why he crosses the room. it is the thing that we wish we could do with life. >> how is filmmaking today all the way back to who is afraid of virginia woolf? how are you different as a filmmaker with all of this experience? >> very little. the only thing is i am a little nicer than what i was. i am not just as crazed and i do not feel the great pressure and i do not have to drive everybody else crazy. i have learned for me that if you have a nice time and do not

yell and scream and carry on, it happens just as well. it is no worse. sometimes it is better because people were happy. >> is it a curse -- when you were 30, you hit the town, or 29 and you went on with "was afraid of virginia wolf?" and "carnal knowledge," and all things in between. it having so much attention, does it set up unfair standards for you as an artist? are you running against mike nichols? >> no, that is where my sense of reality comes in. i once asked marlo brando how tough it was when he first came to hollywood to do whatever it was, "streetcar" or whatever his -- how hard -- how did he manage

with everybody making such a fuss. he said, honey, i do not see all of that. i was so busy trying not to go crazy. that is the answer really. you have other things. you have other fish to poach. >> in 2005, i interviewed mike nichols for "60 minutes." we spoke about the runaway success of spam a lot and his love for theater. ♪ >> what is it you do when you sit around a table like this with your actors before you begin rehearsals? what are you looking for. what did you wanted them to shed? >> it is different with the different pieces, of course. my concern always is whatever it is whether ludicrous or tragedy, it is really the same. there are certain questions. first of all, for the audience, why are we doing this? what is our point? what are we telling?

the audience says, why have you called us together? you have to have an answer. how can i say this? the first thing you have to say as you know in your job and when elaine and i used to be comedians, you have to do something, do not worry, you are in good hands and we know what we are doing. the second thing you have to say also without words and what we are doing is this. statement of theme. >> what ever you do, you will

come back to the theater? >> i hope so. it does feed you. it gives you something back. the people i most admire, he comes back and works and works and works. he never stops. he never stops improving and working on it and doing a hard thing and doing a harder thing. >> to people who don't do it, to get inside of his head to get why he do it and what it means to him. to share that. >> that is it. it does give you something. i think the big difference in the theater is that you are actually in front of people. and they are telling you something. you are telling them something. you are connected. you are communicating with them. the great actors i have worked with, without any exception, including the guys in this show. they have a deal with the audience. they can pretty much do whatever they want with the audience because they are so connected. them to the audience and the audience to them. they remember why they are there and what it is they love about this. and in the audience hears what they are thinking, why they are there, what they are sending out.

it is a communication, a connection. >> many of the great actors and directors who have appeared on this program paid tribute to mike nichols. >> he is a major influence because i looked up to him so much. it's not that he had more experience, because i was older. he and i directed a play when we asked him to do "barefoot in the park." he was out west doing a play.

it was probably a george bernard shaw play. he was so smart. what i said in the book was when i finish the play i wanted to work with two people. the most honest and the smartest. joan was the most honest and she would tell me how she felt. you rush the ending. she did not want to become a critic of it appeared she did not want that job. she could not help but tell me what you feel about this and that. mike would take it apart and show me what to do to make it better without being specific. >> he made "the odd couple" better?

>> every play we did he made better. he made it better by making me better. he never said you do with this word he does this or she does that. he was a it is not working. he would call me up at 3:00 a.m. and ask are you sleeping? the best example is in the book when we were up in new haven with prisoner of 2nd avenue, and i watching the play. he said, what do you think? i said, really good, mike. i love this.

the endings not going to work. i said, we will find out tomorrow night. he said, why find out tomorrow night? let's do it now. i said, it was 12:30. i'm tired. i can't think of anything. he's it, you know you can. we sat in the lobby. i hated him after that time. i wanted to quit. >> i love that. >> i truly did not feel that way. he made me sit there for two hours and after throwing ideas at each other which we were saying terrible, awful, forget it. then there was an hour of quiet. i said i will get to it. he said what if it snows and he gets a shovel out of the closet and they sit there looking like the american gothic. he said i will see you at rehearsal tomorrow and the ending worked. i thanked him for pushing me. >> mike nichols and nora ephron, the two that really do this kind of thing. really get to know each other. rehearsing. there's a confidence that you do not normally have. quentin tarantino did it as well. both in primary colors and "lucky numbers," but getting a feel for each other, the stories, it is more important just a rapping you all do that almost the personal.

>> nichols talks about that he wants you to open up and have people talk that may be embarrassing or may not want to know. you are somehow. >> that is how i went to film school. i wrote two movies for mike. he was the greatest. he could get people to say the most amazing things. i cannot get anybody to say

things like that. >> he does that by offering up himself. >> i offer myself. i degrade myself. [laughter] >> why did mike nichols choose you? >> long answer or short answer? >> you obviously had talent but why did he choose you? redford was sort of the model. >> it's in the book. blue eyes, blonde hair. member of tracking, debating squad. >> none of that is in you. >> none, none, none. he had tested radford and get -- and he tested a lot of people. he was scraping the bottom of the barrel right time he got to me. i do not think he had anything about me. i was in a play on broadway that got good reviews. i don't think he saw it. i think he was told about. he's in it to me to reed. i read the script and i got the book and read the book. i had a panic attack. i thought, why are they trying to ruin my career which is just beginning? i am getting character parts. here is a leading man. i turned down the audition. i was in new york off-broadway. the auditions were in los angeles. when he heard the unknown actor is turning down the audition, he called me up and talked me into doing it. >> what did he say? >> he said you don't want to do it because? i said, i am a character actor and i am not six feet or blonde. he asked, did you think it was funny? i said, i did. he said you do not want to do it because you are jewish? i said, well, -- he said maybe the character is jewish inside and that is what made me do the audition. he said later, i do not think too long ago in an interview that he never really understood why he cast me. >> which is a question i asked you.

>> yes. he said and i did not know until i read it, i think i was casting hoffman because i think the character was my alter ego. >> really? yes. >> i saw myself. >> he did not think of himself as attractive. what i know as a fact after i finished shooting, i want to new york to collect unemployment. i made $3000. i put it in the bank and started collecting unemployment. after the film is edited in los angeles, they start showing it to homes with screening rooms. >> that's what you do in hollywood. they show it to their pals. >> they did that. the producer and mike nichols both in separate articles and interviews years later, i read

for the first time that people came up to them after screening and said what a great film you would have if you did not miscast the lead. that is what the town felt. >> but not mike nichols? >> that as one of the most -- that was maybe one of the most courageous things any director has ever done. >> he wants an actor to surprise him. my guess is you surprised him. you gave him a look he had not thought of and he liked it. >> yes. you know what he did? he came from the theater and he did what we were taught to do whether strasburg, stiller adler, you start with a zero. you don't try to do anything. you say the words and things will come to you. he allowed us to do that in rehearsal. he said do not play characters. he didn't. it goes back to what i was saying before. he did not predetermine what anything should be.

i can give you examples. >> give me an example. >> he said, do you think this character is a virgin? i said, no. i said, but i do not think he screwed his mother's best friend. screwed?i am rehearsing with -- did i say screwed? i don't think he ever slept with his mother's best friend. i am rehearsing with anne bancroft and he says, think about the first time you ever

made out with a girl. he asked how old were you? i said about 15. i was a piano player and i was supposed to play and we were waiting in the basement. she was doing al jolsen in black face. she is sitting next to me. we are waiting to be called and somehow we looked at each other and started to experiment sexually. i cannot get too close to her because she is in a blackface. i told him the story and i put my hand on her breast. we are just sitting there and chairs facing the wall fully dressed. she looked and let me do it. i told nichols the the story. cut to the scene where i'm rehearsing with anne bancroft in the hotel room and he says, the next time we do this scene, i want you to go to the back of her and she has on a brassiere, just hold her breast and let's see what happens. i did it. she had been looking at her sweater and she acknowledged that i was holding her breast. she went back to try to rub off. it was brilliant. i started laughing in those days, well probably today, if you are an unknown actor, if you are caught laughing, that's the worst thing you can do because you're breaking character.

i turned my back on mike nichols and i kept saying, do not laugh, do not laugh, you will get fired. i cannot get myself together. i started banging my head against the wall and he started laughing. that is in the movie. the whole thing is in the movie. [video clip] >> could you help me with this please? >> certainly. >> thank you. >> you are welcome. >> benjamin, would be easier for you in the dark? >> mrs. robinson, i can't do this.

>> you what? >> this is all terribly wrong. >> he kept putting in these accents that happened from bringing forth what he thought. -- felt. >> mike nichols, dead at 83. ♪

>> here's johnny. >> from the moment he stepped on stage to the day he said goodbye -- the king of late night was johnny carson. >> he went right into the homes