text from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. tonight in an exclusive interview with king abdullah of jordan, the king of jordan came

to washington at a crucial time. his part of a coalition against tos and was also born refugees into jordan. he met senior officials and the vice president. today, he met with president obama. we spoke with him yesterday in washington and we began with the threat of isis. here is that conversation. your majesty, thank you very much for the opportunity to talk to you during your visit to the united states. let me talk about isis and what you see as the threat today from isis. from isis, and the like. we have to understand this is a global jihadist movement and it's not just the threat that we are seeing today, although the dealing for many of us with syria and iraq, we have to also remember that we have to .ook at sinai we have to look at libya, the

other elephant in the room. --ali, molly, nature m ali, nigeria. --se are all different organizations with different names, but the same beliefs. that mean -- >> what does that mean to deal with these you go >> we are reaching out with each other. in jordan, we are dealing with syria and iraq. but in partnership with some of the other countries, i just came a few days ago from a meeting over the importance of reaching out to our african friends. two countries that i think will be the lead in dealing with these issues in africa, obviously, the president of gabon dealing on one side with the central african states, and kenya dealingof

with shabbat moving up to somalia. abab moving up to samaria. i know we have to concentrate on syria and iraq, but we really have to have a pan regional approach to this itch you -- this issue. >> with respect to iraq and syria first, the question arises about airstrikes and whether they are sufficient to stop isis. >> know, we knew they wouldn't. but they are very important and can you imagine what the situation would be like without airstrikes? but airstrikes alone will not enough to defeat isis. the issue is how to develop the ground play. in a rocket, it is slightly different. although we have to sort of combined syria and iraq together. chew gum and walk at the same time on all of these issues. it is a slightly

different set of circumstances, because we are working with the iraqi government to be able to work against isis. supporting the kurds is vital, getting them the proper equipment to so they can also be able to deal with isis with efficiency. and most important is reaching the sunni tribes in the west of that are under truman's threat from isis. a lot of the tribes are being executed by isis. -- under tremendous threat from isis. a lot of the tribes are being executed by isis. you want to see delay too much. the local population being massacred, they feel they have no result but to surrender and come under isis. there are some operational delays through no fault of anybody's, because the capacity capability of the iraqi army to be able to alleviate these cities under isis control. these are issues that we've had to deal with and some of the reasons i'm here in washington. we have to reach out to the sunni tribes in western iraq

sooner rather than later. >> what is jordan's role? >> as part of the coalition, we have been working in syria as part of the coalition. we have been talking to the iraqis, talking about how we can assist them and i think that will increase in the very near future in western iraq. then the joke -- the role of jordan elsewhere, because we are part of this regional international capability. a very small country, but with many, i think, responsibly throughout the region to combat this global threat. >> there is no question of nato training troops. and in some reports, they may be trained in jordan. iraqis.e talking to the they have some interest in us doing some training for them. the pregnancy came to visit us about six weeks ago. a very good visit -- the prime minister came to visit us about six weeks ago, a very good visit. we have opened the door to see how we can help the iraqis.

obviously, training a free syrian army against isis is something that is in ongoing discussions, but how do we get to the tribes in syria, eastern , that areifically fighting back against isis? one of the problems in syria in general, but also in western iraq, there is a sense that the international committee only gets excited when minorities get jeopardized. it is the christians or the comes to theen it sunnis, they are being ignored. this is why time is important. we have to reach out to the tribes in western iraq and in eastern syria. but when you say "reach out," what do you mean? support equipment and to them. there are ways of doing it that i have been talking about for several months. .ction has to be taken

it is not something alike to discuss on this venue, but there are things we are going to have to pull the trigger on, so just become a next several weeks. >> does it include jordanian troops? believe at -- >> i the end of the day whether it is any rock or syria, it has to be done by local populations themselves. but getting them supplies and support is another issue. how do you physically get them the support? there are airplane strikes. do you get supplies to them through air? do you get supplies through ground? and how do you protect and support that? we canre things that support and discuss. but i don't thing anyone is talking about the concept of foreign boots on the ground to solve the problem. at the and of the day, syrians have to solve the syrian problem and iraqis have to solve their problem. fixedl he be able to be

quickly at syria will not be a quick fix. -- >> syria will not be a quick fix. issues, almost two wars in a way that on syria. there is the war of regime change in the west and the war against isis in the east. using the american vernacular of chewing gum and walking at the same time, that is part of the problem. >> and in the west it is a sod the enemy, ands in the east it is isis. >> yes, and that does complicate things when you are trying to solve the problem. and also treating a problem, which has been the discussions in congress the past few days, different people have an idea of what is a priority. >> what do you think is a priority? >> global jihadist is a priority. assad? so than

>> in our view, that is the immediate threat. but that is the american view as well. >> because of the mass , but it does not mean that bashar assad is a nice individual and the regime has done wonderful things. there are still a lot of people -- doese that feel that this mean that the regime gets off scott free echoed that is part of the convocations. does this mean that the regime gets off scott free? that is part of the conversation and the complication. me,ecretary hagel said to if we inflict damage on ice is from the air or on the ground, it benefits bashar assad. reality of the battleground. >> yes, but don't forget that i think it was their strategy, the syrian regime, over the past

year and have not to hit the extremist units. they were hitting the moderate units, allowing the extremist groups to gain ground to create atrocities so they could win the pr battle. >> how serious a mistake will history record the failure to the -- to support the moderate years in syria several ago before isis had the power and traction it now has? >> a lot of the equivalent was going from the very beginning to the more extremist units and not to the moderate forces. i think that is why we are in this mess to begin with. >> could we have prevented that in some way? flex not jordan. >> not you specifically, but the united states and other countries who were interested in supporting the moderate forces at the time. was it an impossible task? >> it was not an impossible task.

i think maybe, not understanding of who thef the game units were on the ground and who was benefiting from getting the equipment and the weaponry. and which units were getting stronger as a benefit of the supply in the north. in the south, it's completely different story. my ascension would be you understood that. myquestion would be, -- assumption would be you understood that. my question would be, where you -- were you speaking at the time to supply moderate forces? >> if you want a simple answer, no. >> it was not listened to? >> well, it was listened to, but not with the active energy and i had hoped. >> and there we have a more difficult task. >> correct.

today, you look at syria how do you, for example, the turks raise the question of the shy side -- of bashar al-assad before they would even support bonnie under siege. ni under siege.s the issue of support seems to be primary. >> at the end of the day, there has to be a political solution and the way that i think a lot of us are trying to get to this is how you get the moderate opposition, and what does moderate opposition mean, to the table to find a political solution. the way i've seen it in the last two years, the more one side supports opposition, others will support the regime. basicallyntinues, syria becomes a completely

and are so many extremist the benefit from complete chaos. if we are going to bring syria back into the light, the only way we can do that is to find the political solution. the problem in the middle of that at the moment is the sharp -- bashar assad's future. how do we get around that? in my view, the russians play a very important role. at the end of the day, they help to play the guarantor for the , whichof the alawites are a major entity of the dynamics. pursue aput -- political track, that is where the russians coming to this and can help us achieve a political solution. >> which begs the question, are the russians prepared to do that on behalf of their relationship with syria?

>> in my view, you have this phenomenon that has created a problem for all of us in the international community, and that is, the issue of foreign fighters. you have now for insiders coming from all over the world coming to fight alongside isis in syria today inside iraq. if you look at the russian point of view, chechen extremist fighters are coming in to fight in syria and iraq. they will be problematic because eventually they will be good back and create problems. not only are the other jihadist looking for the next base to fight, but they are also causing problems. problem, as much of a i believe, if not slightly more, because of the numbers involved than say, other european countries, france, germany, italy, and other places. we're all in the same boat. you would be surprised that we are picking up chinese from western china in iraq. and not too far away from our borders. this is becoming a global

problem. >> how do you deal with that global problem? >> on the other psycho i personally believe that we as muslim countries, as i -- on the other side, i personally believe that we as muslim countries, i said to parliament that we need to take ownership of this and stand up and say what is right and what is wrong. this is no reflection of our religion. this is evil. all of us have got to make that decision. we have to stand up and say, this is the line that is drawn thehe sand and those in right should stand on the side and those who do not have to make a decision should stand on the other. it is clearly a fight between good and he. --hink it is a generational good and evil. i think it is a generational fight. >> you are saying this is a third world war and that is what you said to putin and that is what you will say to the president of the united states at the >> what i've already said

to the president and what i will say to other leaders is that this is a generational fight, and so people do not misunderstand me, there is a security aspect of it in the medium-term. but the long-term will be ideological. have got to look ourselves in the mirror and realize we have this problem. callthis very difficult and all of us come together and clearly say these people are renegades. these people have nothing to do with islam. we have this argument at the moment that there are extremist muslims and moderate muslims. i don't believe that. i am a month -- i'm a muslim. where you calling me a moderate muslim? i don't know who these people are. these people who condone the execution and crucifixion of people, the beheading and raping of women, that has nothing to do with our religion.

there are a lot of leaders around the arab and muslim world that have had enough and want to enough isnd say enough. >> why isn't that an easy call for muslim leaders? why isn't that an easy call to say, this doesn't represent the religion? >> you will see that more and more. >> what is an example of that from someone other than you? >> just give it some time. there are discussions between a lot of us that are coming together to say that we have to make a stand. as i said, because of the total globality of this issue, we will have to coordinate. and because we are not dealing -- just iraq >> it is all over the world. but you have to do with the immediacy of it in terms of iraq and syria. >> yes. >> and they have more revenue

and more social media and more weapons. >> but also instantaneously you've got to look at libya. the risk in libya, because there has not been much focus on it. >> surprisingly. surprisingly, everybody ignores libya, which is also probably just as complicated and just as desperate. does it take major atrocities there for the international arena to focus the attention? theink as we are getting strategy and the tactics in place of syria and iraq, then people will start to focus on libya. but i hope by the end of this year, beginning of next year, countries will start come together to start talking about libya. theer to the europeans than united states, especially those on the northern mediterranean. you will see the italians, the french, to an extent of the spanish taking a lead on that.

>> are you meeting some opposition as you try to make this case before people? >> from the leaders i'm talking to, not at all. how do we come together and just get our script? >> what is your roadmap? but i would like to keep the road back to us at this stage. -- >> i would like to keep the roadmap to us at this stage. >> some suggest that isis is a huge problem, yes, and they have to do something about it, but there are also -- but they are also sunnis like we are and are -- our opportunity for dominance 's with that. you have heard that. >> item believe in a shia versus sunni conflict. -- i don't leave in a shia versus sunni conflict. we are all one people and that does not help. i think it goes deeper, or slightly different than that. we look at as major

international phenomenon, there is a common ground to hold us together and i'm hoping that is where a lot of the leaders are taking this. leadersre one of the that raises the specter of the shia crescent. >> yes, and i raised it from a political view. again, the jihadists global problem, the political point of view that we need to tackle. i don't believe that from a religious point of view there are any obstacles between us. and actually, it was last summer or the summer before last where some irresponsible members on both sides of the divide, clerics tried to create a clash andeen the shia and sunni we had a conflict where we brought sunni and shia leaders from all of the world to say, but, whatever is happening in aleppo, it has nothing to do with international strife. -- internal strife. and we held a meeting on the

imams stoodhere two -- onen sunni, one shia sunni and one shia come and they said, we are both brothers and what is a happening in iraq has nothing to do with religion. >> therefore, tell me how you see the relationship on the ground between iran, who considers isis an enemy, the united states who considers isis jordaner me -- an enemy, who considers isis an enemy, and saudi arabia who now considers isis an enemy. >> interesting that you mentioned the iranian airstrikes in an earlier interview, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. >> how might it play out? what do you see people saying to you privately? >> i have to get back and sort of see what they have to say. obviously, like all regions, there will always be tensions and conflicts because of

countries, border disputes. you are sort of implying religious problems. it is more historical problems. i think they're tensions are based more on historical issues than they are religious ones. dominance inon of the region is more historic than religious. >> power plays all over the world by big state and small there fore been centuries. >> can you imagine iran being part of the solution in syria? because they are have influence -- they have influence also with assad. ssad.hey also need a >> the priorities are more than bashar assad. guarantor comes, the is more the russians than the irradiance. -- than the iranians.

i think the russians need as we do to start to unravel this phenomenon. and syria is a good place to start. damascus is not that far away from the caucuses. and this problem with stability in syria and iraq is preventing goes back to the caucuses quite easily. and don't forget, the fighters are not just coming from chechnya. we have seen them from goes back bekistan androm uz other of the stans. it? dowhy are they doing they believe in the mission? >> part of it is the media, the role the media play in isis and other groups are quite successful.

cherry picking bits of the koran and say this is what the koran says, which is completely and utterly untrue. and they have been very successful in the media and in reaching out to the use all over frustrating people who are without jobs. and don't forget they are offering very good salaries. part of the problem that we had with isis at the beginning and part of the reason that airstrikes were so needed was that the oil industry alone was netting them about $1 billion a year. for a recruit joining isis is about $1000 per month. which is the equivalent of a kernel's pay in our armed forces. onel's pay in our armed

forces. we've got to do to fight back now is try to expand to people that all of these things that you are hearing as the manifestoes have nothing to do with the koran. but part of the problem is the major recruiting issue. america and in certain sectors this does not go down well, but that the core issue in the middle east is still the israeli-palestinian one. that isl we solve that, a major recruitment for extremist groups. >> you told me, for example, -- theen the war ends war in gaza was taking place, recruitment by isis went skyhigh. they can use it even though it is not connected. >> all of these extremist jihadist groups use the injustice of what is happening to the palestinians in jerusalem as a rallying call. i know there will be a lot of comments made after i say that, that it is not true.

it no longer matters whether it is true or not. the is true is that is what jihadists use as a recruiting element. and actually, since the airstrikes have happened, i think the amount of recruiters that have crossed the border in isis have gone up to about 3000. when you saw young women and children in the high death count instead of gaza, we saw an immense amount of recruiting of isis of young people into isis. >> when you look at the forces on one side -- the united states, the coalition partners, you, saudi arabia, the emirates. you look at the goals of iran. why is this a tough fight? isis has money, clearly. it is able to recruit, clearly. but this is an overwhelming force that is possible. where am i naive?

that the you have to complexities of what allow them such a success rate at the beginning. they were limited inside of syria. the syrian regime was purposely not targeting them for some they were targeting all of the moderate units. they were allowed to grow and establish themselves. >> and they did that purposely because they wanted to see isis grow. sowell, it was other groups that they could win the pr game to get the swing vote behind them to show that there were people lots worse than us and they were successful in doing that. when they went into iraq in july, the uprising that happened in western iraq was not because the sunni tribes had any affinity for isis. it was the frustration with baghdad for many, many years because there was no -- the sunnis felt there was no political inclusion into the future of iraq. that is something we have discussed not just with us

jordanians, but with americans. we have heard that for many years. and it was that explosion of isis into iraq in july. minister,he new prime he has reached out to the sunnis and i think the atmospherics are better. but again, there is a timetable. if he doesn't deliver some of these promises, then the sunni tribes -- to the sunni tribes that they are part of iraq and there is a future, that could backfire. i try to explain to the american audience, we have kurdistan. had the sunnistan. unless we solve that part, they will feel isolated. >> but they need people to extend that to them for some you got to promise them that the shia prime minister is going to

reach out and wants a relationship. but the people best able to that because of history, i assume, is fellow sunnis. again, aextent, but lot of iraqis, whether they are shiite, sunni, or kurds, believe in a united iraq for sub you got to give those people the benefit of the doubt. there are other elements in the playing field. you mentioned iran. i don't think iran would like to see a strong, vibrant iraq for obvious reasons. there is always internal play and pressures on the iraqi government to make sure that the sunnis do not get the things that they want in the way that they want for sub that is an uphill struggle. but going back to isis, i think that prime minister a body -- abadi is committed. he has bureaucracy that he has to fight through. we are all giving him the benefit of the doubt. i think he will deliver, but again, the clock ticking.

>> there is no question in your mind that this battle against won, and can be

the definition of that is what? whatrst, we have to decide side we are on. nations in the arab and islamic world have to stand up and say, we are against this and it's going to our people that there is a right and a wrong in this and people have to make a decision. it is no longer that we can allow complacency. 9/11 was an attack on the united states by any two missed group to try to create a clash of civilizations. they wanted the west to fight islam. we knew that was their target. they were actually after us. this is our war. this is a war inside islam. .e have to own up to it we have to take the lead and we have to start fighting back and all of us have to stand up to the plate and take our responsible he's. >> and if you do that, extremism can be what, manageable? eradicated? >> i don't want to get into the

details, because a lot of us are talking about how to deal with this. happens is, when you clearly defined what it is to be a muslim and what these people s the ourink it define commitments easier inside islam of how to deal with this issue. and i think of a lot of people are actually thinking, oh, isis is something to being -- noble to be part of. >> especially the young. >> especially the young that are being lied to. we have to have the proper arguments. they have not been properly defined, but they will be in the future. >> this seems to be a significant moment and the dialogue is important and crucial, to come together to figure at how to combat this. it is both ideological, education, stopping the flow of money, and a whole range of other things.

>> it takes courage for stuff we have to be courageous and face this head on first of >> what is the risk to that, being courageous? >> what is the risk if we don't do it? us, not just muslims, but christians, jews, everybody else . >> which raises the question that many friends of yours worry about jordan, and you. they worry about it because of what was happening in the arab spring and you were the first to say you believe in the arab spring and you represented the arab spring and you had listed a series of reforms that you thought were important for your government and for your people. what does the king of jordan fear? and theis own country threat to him and his country. much.on't fear i have the confidence in my people. i have confidence in god.

i think the question you want to probably asked if the what keeps me up at night? >> yes, thank you. you are looking at the challenges of what is going on in the region, we had this issue of fighting isis. we were part of an air coalition .- just an anecdote my brother was commander of the air force several years ago and when i was in new york and the coalition was formed, both him and the chief of staff when out to the air base where we had .ollected all our pilots i said, just check, we will ask volunteers. and the chief of staff and my brother stepped forward and said we're looking for volunteers for strikes against isis was up anyone who wants to volunteer, please step forward. every single pilot raised his hand and stepped forward. -- it was the same

discussion that i had when you went into afghanistan. i went to our special forces and i said, how do you believe of our commitment to fighting extremist in afghanistan? and everybody was raring to go. from that point of view, think the morale is high. jordanians are in a very good place. but when we suffer is poverty, unemployment, and the economy is struggling mainly because of the large number of refugees. >> i'm going to come to that. just one question before that. >> what keeps me up at night, the economy, poverty, and unemployment, and our people suffering because of the refugees. >> and the commitment to the refugees. you saw the president of egypt recently. take strongelled to action against the muslim brotherhood. the muslim brotherhood is a

factor in jordan? do you feel compelled to take action against them? >> well, no, we haven't. they are an organization. we had invited them to be part of the process at the beginning of the arab spring. with the first political organization that i actually talked to at the start of the arab spring. they made their demands very well known. they wanted to change the constitution. a highered constitutional court. they had a list of things, all of which we have done, by the way. they wanted a national dialogue committee so we could talk about reform. that was set up. they were asked to be part of the national dialogue, and then they refuse to because at that point -- don't forget, the air spring was started by young men and women that want to change. -- the arab spring was started by young men and women that want to change. a muslim organization took over from the youth that wanted change. at that point, in egypt if you

remember, the use were replaced muslim.rganized and they thought that staying in the streets was better because they thought jordan was going to fall. look at ourou history, we have been through many crises over many decades for some it's not by accident that we are still here and still strong. >> if it is not by accident, then it's because of what? >> i think, because of our people, and because of the the country has with its leadership. unitedause we are all a family. we have been written off for i don't know, i don't know how many decades. we're unified. we are strong. >> do you approve of what a cc a --ssisi is doing it egypt?

collect any person with a challenge that he or she would have -- >> any person with the challenges that he or she would have, i would commend them. the set of challenges that he has to do to really help his country are unbelievable. that he's trying to do is bring back the ability to egypt. we need egypt. egypt is the linchpin of the middle east. >> the linchpin of the middle east. >> they are the center of the middle east for many, many reasons. historically, culturally, religiously. and we all need egypt. bringing that he is strength to his country and stability to his country. the economy is a major challenge for him. but at the same time, he has to deal with instability in sinai, which we are all trying to help with. he is one of the largest borders

--libya, which like i said we're all talking about our concerns in syria and iraq. imagine what his columns are facing libya and what he has to deal with. all of us have to stand by -- imagine what his problems are facing libya and what yesterday with. all of us have to stand by them. worry about my challenges, and then i think about what he has to go through. >> i will turn to the palestinian issue, but before that, the refugee question. you have 1.5 million refugees. 1.5 million refugees, over 20% of our population in the past year and a half. almost 90% are outside of refugee camps. only a very small portion in the refugee camps and the rest are across the country. it has affected our health care, our school systems. we have regressed to going back to double-shifts.

>> what is the economic measurement of this? >> your country has been so gracious and so magnanimous in helping us out with its aid program. please, my appreciation to the united states. i wish the rest of the international committee could be as helpful. -- community could be as helpful. , thehis year's budget donor aid only cover something like 29%. we still have a shortfall of $1.9 billion just to cover the refugees. >> and this is a response booty that you did not ask for. who should step forward? that you didbility not ask for. who should step forward? sure the united nations be stepping forward? >> the united nations, because of lack of budget, they have also downgraded the ability of

food supplies that they can give full stop that is another burden we have to deal with. >> is there a security element to this beyond economic and monetary and? -- and humanitarian? some of these people may have come the cousin they want to be part of some jihadist factor. >> there is always that threat. the problem is getting the amount of refugees that come into the country, because not all of those people who come across the border are technically refugees. there are some bad apples in that. and that is one of the daily concerns that we have. we have been fortunate so far in making sure that we have vetted as many people that have come across the border as we have, but that is not to say we have not missed a few. going to be a concern. >> turning to israeli-palestinian issues, secretary kerry launched an effort and believed it was possible that he could bring some kind of agreement between palestinians and israelis.

it is said that you were right there in the middle of that, that you were there both advising and encouraging a central part of that. why did it fail? >> well, it hasn't failed yet. it is still an ongoing issue. the door is still open. and that think if you remember, there was a trilateral meeting between primus or netanyahu, myself, and secretary kerry about 10 -- prime minister netanyahu, myself, and secretary kerry about 10 days ago and it was very successful. we had about an hour conversation on ways to move forward. >> this was secretary kerry, assisi -- dent >> and prime minister netanyahu.

and essentially, all of us are dealing with this much bigger problem, which is the international fight against jihadists. if world has moved on, but we do not unravel and solve this problem between israelis and palestinians, we will really be fighting this problem with one arm tied behind our back. how critical it is for the israelis and palestinians to be able to move forward, secretary kerry has some ideas, some things that were discussed. >> what progress did it make? clearly, secretary kerry was very passionate about trying to keep quiet what the deal was, because he believed if it was given, people would start picking at it. what was the essence of the deal? >> i cannot -- >> because it is still in motion. >> we are part of the process does when it comes to status issues, just about every issue has something to do with gordon, -- with jordan, whether it is

the border, jerusalem, etc. this is why we were able to help overcome a lot of the obstacles. and as a result, for the first time in the dialogue of the peace process, for them to talk to the jordanians, that was a sign of how serious the problem was. and we got to a very strong final package. we didn'tl reasons manage to take the final step. >> what are the reasons? >> both sides had their concerns. >> trust? >> trust is part of it. back toink they are hopefully overcoming that at the beginning of the year. there are issues that we've talked about. we are keeping our fingers crossed. >> other still possible these within the remaining term of the obama administration? be, because what

happens if there is not? this is the critical fact that both sides have to understand. we are now moving on to something much bigger, which is the global fight, this generational fight. if this thing is still cooking and not resolved, how are we ever going to succeed on this larger problem? why is it now that all of these governments around the world are sort of either indirectly recognizing the state of israel -- i'm sorry, the state of palestine, or saying that in a you are too, if you don't solve the problem, we are going to -- in a year or two, if you don't solve the problem, we are going to recognize the state of palestine. they are beginning to realize that all roads do lead to jerusalem and if the israelis and palestinians do not solve this problem, it does have an effect with extreme is him and how it affects the muslim populations in their countries. at the end of the day, the core issue is still the israeli-palestinian problem and jerusalem, even though certain people do not like a reference made to that. whether it is true or not, that argument is still being used by

the extremists, and countries around the world realize they have to solve the problem for that benefit. -- for their benefit. just politics. it affects the national security of countries around the world. >> so they have a larger incentive now to push for this. >> is really -- israelis and palestinians for our sake around the world, solve the problems. >> the argument has been made that israelis didn't win the oslo war because of her because of the repercussions of it. >> from that view, i think you are correct. if you look at all of the media outlets from the summer -- maybe not american, but most of the international outlets, they were not covering ukraine. the attention has shifted. the understanding and concerns

are the core issue today. that has to be an understanding by the two players, that we could move on to something bigger and if you don't get it, we will all pay the price. >> you know well and have had many discussions, including the one you mention with prime minister netanyahu. does he get it? that in yourt judgment come all of the things that you have laid out here that the world has changed, that there is a bigger issue, there is a time demand, and these countries are saying you've got to solve this -- does he get it? does he feel that in your judgment? can say that the conversation, the four-way conversation between president myself, secretary kerry him and the prime minister made -- secretary kerry, and the prime minister, it went on

for an hour. it was a four-way conversation. optimistic,lly sincere conversation, and one that left me with a lot of hope. and the way that everybody was talking about the problem made me feel that they wanted to move forward. >> hope is a precious commodity and you do not see a lot of it these days. what was it that made it home full? -- hopeful? text -- >> is really's need to understand that if this israelis to go on -- need to understand that if this continues to go on, because then we go onto a bigger problem, how this continues to affect the israeli jordanian relationship, the israeli egyptian relationship, because of this thing continues to create turmoil, it does create from it is pressures on jordan and israel and egypt. pressures on

jordan and israel and egypt. there was an understand that we have to move this process forward. and i think everyone left that meeting optimistic and geared up . >> have you seen any changes since then? no, the feedback we got from both the egyptians and the israelis and the palestinians -- you are going to have different maneuverings by different groups and there are different things that come up, whether it is the new israeli bill or -- >> what do you make of the israeli bill by the way? >> it deftly complicates things. >> so you came out of the meeting hopeful, and then you have this vote. >> that makes things more comp -- more but again, complicated, but again, i'm looking to the beginning of the year. there were some things said at the end of the dinner, and secretary kerry coming back with the next phase of getting together. give the benefit of the doubt and keep my fingers crossed, and see what happens.

whate you worried about will happen? >> if they don't do it, there will be another war in lebanon. there is a reason why our field hospital is still there. we have kept it there since war one. the problem,solve it's only a matter of time before there is another. >> and u.s.-jordanian relations? >> could not be better. we work, as always, in harmony in dealing with all of the challenges. and as you know, jordan is not just dealing with problems of just written. that youom the time said you did not feel like there was a residence to the warnings that you had given -- a re sonance to the warnings that you had given, do you feel like the administration here has changed for the unitedy states to take a lead and be deeply involved? -- >> i had a long

session with the president in february of this year. we discussed a lot of the issues that we are now dealing with. i had a chance to spend a lot of time with him at the nato summit where we identified how to move forward on the issues of, as it turned out, the air campaign. he said a lot of his representatives sent to deal on in learning how to do with the iraqis. a is always looking at strategic angle of these issues. he wants to make sure we don't get ourselves into trouble. i tend to be maybe the more aggressive side on these issues. i'm sure i create a lot of headaches for him. >> you mean you're calling him to action. >> no, no, he's always been very

responsive to everything i do. >> what do you mean by "you tend "? be more aggressive >> he is the sensible one out of the two of us. he reminds me that maybe i have to think through a lot of the things that i come up with. but we have turned his chemistry when we sit down and deal with these issues. tremendous chemistry when we sit down and deal with the issues. when he looks at the problems of syria and iraq, i'm always impressed with how he looks at things from any angle system and elissa down and look at how we do that, how to get of the people involved in the mix. >> is it one with you in terms of laying out the threat that exists in the world? you are satisfied that he not only understands that, but is engaged by it. >> yes, absolutely. anytime there is a problem, he has always kept the door open. difficulty,ever a

give me a call and we will be right there. i'm very confident with the relationship that we have. on dealing with the issues, and as a result, you will see a process in place. and hopefully i will see him tomorrow speaking of some of the things that we are doing. we will throw some ideas back and forth and taken to the next level. >> not easy to be king. >> well, probably more difficult to be president. >> thank you so much. ♪

>> i'm john heilemann. >> and, i'm mark haleperin. with all due respect, a departing white house -- sam katz. [laughter] ♪ on the show tonight, the president cannot cross a bridge. chris christie tries to shake a bridge and the colonies are welcoming the duke and duchess of cambridge. dianne feinstein, the head of the senate intel committee, has long wanted the report critical of cia torture a.k.a. enhanced interrogation tactics and of cia conduct to be released.