>> i'm josh green. >> i'm john heilemann. with all respect to dr. stephen j. colbert, you are the real poppa bear, rest in peace. good dogutentag, sports fans! the three white guys are jeb chris, and brad. first, remember when the republicans said they would sweep in a new era of bipartisanship? that happened, thanks to north korea. sony shutdown "the interview"

yesterday, and we heard from important figures from politics and entertainment speaking in unison. president obama encouraging people to go to the movies. the last two republican candidates piping up, and mitt romney tweeting, don't cave-in, fight. rob lowe said, "hollywood has done proud," while bill maher said that the nation was thrown under the bus. you are a policy man, washington man, a person of the beltway. what can washington do, if anything, to pick up this problem? >> it's a crazy situation. who would have thought kim jong-un would be the uniter, not a divider, bringing america together? >> is that a subtle jab at george w bush? >> subtle one.

it presents an interesting problem. this is a nation that barely has electricity, already economically isolated. the usual tools that you would apply to a rogue nation you cannot with north korea. there are a couple of things. maybe they can lean on the chinese to interfere with financial transactions, stop some of their diplomats, but it is hard. >> cyber terrorism is a form of obvious economic espionage, and the government seems to be taking it seriously. is there something the government can do to help sony? "new yorker magazine" said the government should step in and say we will subsidize sony if there are losses on the film. what about that idea, the government trying to subsidize somehow help free expression? >> i don't think you want government jumping in and backstopping the private market. they need a policy response, the same way that you would have a policy response for a terror attack but for a cyber attack.

the reaction from sony, the uproar in the u.s. will only encourage further attacks. we need some kind of policy to implement to stop people from doing this. >> i have to say that sony is taking a lot of heat, but if you were sitting in their corporate office right now facing the legal liability if something went wrong at one of these theaters across the country, you would be seriously considering pulling this movie too. now on to vladimir putin's annual press conference. yes, he has an annual press conference. the president of russia spoke for more than three hours, showing everybody that he has his country under control even as the ruble topples. he said other countries are affecting this. >> our bear needs to chill out not to chase the piggies. a little bit of berries, a little bit of honey, and maybe he will be left alone. no way. they will never let him be. they are going to chain him. they will chain the bear. then they will extract his teeth

and nails. after they extract the nails of the bear, then he is not needed. then you can stuff the bear and turn it into a taxidermy bear. and we are protecting our sovereignty. >> chain the bear is now one of my favorite phrases of the year. can you imagine president obama doing a press conference like that? you cannot. vladimir putin, strongman or madman? >> strongman, but with a real problem. [laughter] does this have to be an either/or answer? >> you can define this either way. >> there is a third way. he has a problem. the ruble is collapsing, the price of oil is collapsing. the russian economy is hugely dependent on oil. on the other hand, putin is hugely popular within russia because of the situation in the ukraine and this idea that russia's being persecuted. he referred to the u.s. as the

little piggies? >> yes, i believe so. >> he needs to cast the blame on foreign adversaries, and that is what's happened. >> also, people laugh at "chain the bear," but the truth is his whole strength in russia is built on the notion that he is a strong man for a big powerful, superpower. the metaphor of the bear, although it is clumsy and weird, it is also really resonating probably with russians, saying we are a strong and defiant country, we can make it through this, do not try to threaten us. you will not be able to. >> or you will have to contend with our topless leader riding his steed and doing all the other things that vladimir putin does to project machismo and all the other things that he does. things to distract from the very real problems in russia. >> is there a chance that he is the bear? >> i have no idea. [laughter] you lost me. maybe a shaved bear.

[laughter] >> maybe we should move on. that was a bad metaphor. that was a great press conference, three hours or four hours is just not enough for me. jeb bush is leaving his job as an advisor to barclays, which is something you have to do if you are running for president. josh, you are the resident expert at the moment, having written the story. last week talking about how governor bush might have a mitt romney problem because of all of his financial dealings and interests. is this the beginning of the de-mitting? here is the beginning of getting rid of the romney problem? >> absolutely, jeb bush has two mitt romney problems. one, in the piece in "businessweek," it takes a look at the fact -- my co-writer, talented -- he has opened three

funds, including one three weeks ago. not the action that you would take. they said are you running for president of trying to get rich? the other problem, with barclays, you don't want to be associated with private equity and certainly not a scandal-plagued bank like barclays. stepping down makes that story hopefully for bush, a little tougher for journalists like us. >> one of the most striking things of this entire week of this story is mitt romney being quoted in "politico" saying, you think i have a problem with this, wait until you see would jeb bush is doing with barclays. >> mitt romney came out and said, "i'm worried about --" supposedly said, "i'm worried jeb bush has a private equity problem." >> first you are saying that vladimir putin is a hairless bear, and now you're comparing mitt romney to a big hairy troll. >> to a big, hairy troll. >> this is a very vivid episode. >> send all of your hate mail to me. >> it is all well and good for him to get off the board of

barclays, but it does not come close to addressing the problem. as you know, mitt romney was not running bain when he had that problem. the question, as you raise in your story, who are some of these investors? the specter of shadowy chinese investors and vehicles that jeb bush has connections to, that is something people will want to dig into, among his republican rivals, reporters, and democrats. >> before he launched his leadership tactic, what he did before was i will come out and transparently release 250,000 e-mails from when he was governor. interesting that he did not include his foreign investors in that list of things. >> will you be trying to find those e-mails soon? >> i have been trying, they don't return my e-mails. >> next, it is a chris christie christmas.

say that 16 times fast. i can't even say it once fast. the new jersey governor got an early present. he will not be named in the george washington bridge scandal. he will also talk with his family about running for president. "the wall street journal" is reporting that the game is on for him to get his donors in line. josh, it will be an interesting scene over there in new jersey around christmas time. the on the questions of should i run, should i not run, what are the other factors with jeb bush and donors that chris christie has to think about? >> the biggest thing chris christie wants from santa claus is a note from federal prosecutor saying you are not being indicted in the bridge scandal. in terms of things he can actually control, he needs to go out and gauge how nervous are my donors, are they going to flock to jeb bush now that it looks like he is getting in the race or do i need to get in here and

assert myself, assert my primacy, watch some kind of leadership to keep pace with jeb bush and let people know, no you don't have to vote for another bush. i'm here, i'm pretty clean. we have been getting the stories he has been dropped in this lawsuit. he is getting some distance from that scandal. >> i don't think there is any question chris christie will not be indicted, but the federal prosecutors are still looking at that case. the real christmas present would be no indictments. the truth is there are about four or five people around christie who could be indicted. whether he is or not, if they get indicted, the possibility they may talk, they will end up in some complicated legal morass that will reflect on him, it is a huge problem. his whole front runner status a year ago, before bridge gate was built. people on wall street wanted him to run. those people have more or less entirely abandoned him.

they are now racing to bush. i wonder, given all the questions about chris christie's temperament, how he will play in iowa and new hampshire, if you don't have wall street behind you, what is the christie candidacy rest on? >> exactly. >> it is a huge question. when we come back, more questions about the north korean hack attack. should we watch "team america" instead? and is anyone still listening to aaron sorkin? the editor in chief of "the wrap" will be with us, next. ♪

>> our guest tonight will not be able to watch "the interview," so she will give us an interview.

sharon waxman, thank you for coming on the show. >> happy to be here. >> i was just asking, you just got a new peace online that talks about how sony bungled this from start to finish. do the anatomy of this moment, how sony has screwed this up. >> well, actually, both within hollywood and outside of hollywood, just the brunt of the most brutal criticism right now. it is not just the analysis i'm making. it is a pure observation. they have gone from championing the rights of seth rogen and james franco to make a controversial movie to essentially putting at risk, you know, the whole kit and caboodle of sony pictures by apparently not taking seriously the threats that had been the ominous, dark clouds on the horizon. they were getting e-mail warnings from north korea through the months of making this movie.

the question is, who's judgment call was it to pursue the movie as planned? a lot of changes might have been made along the way. then there is this question about how they reacted once they were hacked, which is devastating and presumably nobody could have imagined something as paralyzing as what actually occurred. i don't think there has been a hack in corporate history of this level, this order of magnitude, stealing the information, leaking people's private employee information private e-mail to that degree. but then they are also being criticized within hollywood by other studios for taking too long to make the decision about the movie, endangering the very important christmas movie going experience. and of course their movie plays alongside everybody else's movies, and now they are also being criticized for having caved to the hackers and pulled the movie. so too late for some people's tastes, and not putting the movie out in some way, handing the hackers a full victory, if you like.

so they are just getting slammed from every angle. >> sharon, is there anybody in hollywood who is defending sony, or is it just open season from every direction? >> today, i would not say they have any defenders that i see. the latest thing that i saw was michael lynch having to explain e-mails. who would really withstand the scrutiny of having their every e-mail pulled out of context and thrown into the public square? even those people who are maybe not as casual in their e-mail as some of the things that have leaked out, or have been deliberately leaked have shown. you know, there is a lot of damage that could be construed in a lot of ways. i have had leaked e-mails out there, completely taken out of context. it is not fair, but that is where we are at. >> sharon, your first answer

you said what was at risk was maybe the whole kit and caboodle for sony, or at least for sony pictures. explain what that means. what is actually at stake, not just for the leaders like amy pascale, but for everybody involved? what is on the line, in terms of movies financing, what the loss will be, but more broadly in terms of this studio's standing in hollywood? >> that is the question on the table. the movie itself, we published a story, you guys had a good story also, looking at the losses. the movie itself is about a $90 million loss right now. that is the cost of production cost of marketing. there are other losses that are estimated at having to rebuild the security infastructure, the digital infrastructure, the

piracy of the five movies that were fully leaked online. that's tens of millions of dollars in that. that is certainly something the studio could withstand, and i think there is also potentially a valid insurance claim they could make against the cost of the movies they may be up to recoup through those means. when you are really asking is what is the future of sony pictures as a business, and that really is something that we all have to think about. first of all, there are not many major studios left. there are six that are members of the motion pictures association that make all of the entertainment, the lion's share of the entertainment that we consume around the world today. i would say that the current leadership is highly at risk to no longer be the current leadership at the studio, that is for sure. with new leadership at the studio, they will have a great deal of fence-mending to do in the talent community. i think there will have to be a lot of assurances made that conversations that are had are kept private, that deals that

are made are going to be honored. of course, the thing is when you are a studio, what you're trying to do is get the best materials first. you are trying to build franchises. you are trying to create relationships with movie stars and the writers and directors who make the great movies. and you are competing with the other studios to do that. so there is significant damage to sony's reputation as a place to do that. and they will have to rebuild over time. >> sharon, let me ask you one last question, we have about 30 seconds here, there have been a number of people, including in washington, who have suggested sony should put the movie online or in pay-per-view. they rejected that why? >> yes, quickly, i would say

they need to get this problem behind them. i think they thought if they allowed any outlet for the movie to be seen, they were still at risk by whoever is out there making this threat, north korea. so i think the leaders of sony needed to get over this, get over and done. the best way was to not release the movie at all. >> sharon waxman, thank you very much. when we come back, are you ready for some football analysis? will releach is back. ♪

>> the san francisco 49ers have cut a defensive lineman after the police said they were investigating him for suspicion of sexual assault. if anybody's surprised, they have been not following the nfl. the fact is this is the worst year that roger goodell and the nfl have had -- sex abuse child abuse, lies upon lies. but since this is america, we will not stop watching. so before you turn on the game tonight, listen to will leach

and what he has to say about what football means for americans and its brazenly defined leader. >> we are sitting outside of the fortress that is nfl headquarters. roger goodell is in his office away from the inquisitive questions from reporters or angry protesters. the trouble for roger goodell surfaced showing former raven star ray rice knocking his then-fiance unconscious in atlantic city elevator. roger goodell suspended him only two games, half of what the league mandates for off-season marijuana use. then in september, more graphic video surfaced, showing him punching janay and knocking her out. this time roger goodell suspended him indefinitely claiming dubiously that he and

not seen the video. >> i got it wrong in the handling of the ray rice matter, and i am sorry for that. i got it wrong on a number of levels, from the process that i led to the decision i reached. >> as the controversy escalated, vikings star adrian peterson was charged with beating his son with a switch repeatedly. it was another example that gave the impression of a league out of control. despite all this, the games went on and more people watched than ever. ratings are up 3% this season across the board. the nfl had 36 of the top 40 telecasts since such of her seventh. -- since september 7. the eagles-cowboys game on thanksgiving was the most watched show, the highest ratings since 1998. whether it is players' concussions, child abuse, or a

midseason drug ring locker rate, nothing can derail the league. >> ray rice came in with a standing ovation. it is amazing to see how some people are so quick to forgive and forget. >> the commissioner is really only beholden to the 32 team owners he has made obscenely rich. nfl revenue has increased 31% from 2008 to 2013. >> the bigger issue as a it pertains to roger goodell is there are no checks and balances. he has concentrated all of his power at the top. even if he were forced to resign, whatever figurehead took over as commissioner representing these 32 owners over the interests of the players or fans would retain all of those powers and would not have to answer to anybody but himself. >> roger goodell has been awkwardly silent other than a press conference that was held late on a friday night. he gave an interview that said "i blew it" in regards to the scandals. the next day, he unveiled a

tougher personal policy. parents have said they do not want their sons playing football. the winds of change may be blowing. >> roger goodell can ignore all of the screams and protests. we will not stop watching. the fact is, i am angry with the nfl, but i am as guilty as everybody else. because like the rest of you, it is sunday night, and i am at a bar and i am ready for some football. >> that is the great will leit ch. we will be right back with a special holiday message. ♪

>> day 19 of the advent calendar, it is none other than bill o'reilly with an important message. >> i have been doing this about 10 years. this is the only year we have not had a store that commanded its employees not to say "merry christmas."

it is over. we have won. >> war is over, if you wanted.

>> he has been called the king of the tech world, peter thiel made his name founding paypal and funding facebook, and now is backing rocket ships and starting islands off the coast. he skipped college and started companies instead. i know there will be flying cars along the way, joining me is the bold and controversial venture capitalist and