>> from our studios in new york, this is charlie rose. >> the new film is "selma."

the movie arrives at a timely moment in this country. the events in ferguson missouri, the death of error garner and insensitive remarks. >> he has got supporters. detroit, new york, los angeles. finding sympathy marchers. >> what i do know is the non-violence. what i need to know is what is martin luther king about to do next? >> dr. king is here. >> in the south there have been thousands of racially motivated murders. >> we need your help but things will have to wait.

>> you have one big issue. i have 101. >> harris the next great battle. >> that white boy can hit. >> we will not tolerate a disturbance. >> it is unacceptable that they used their power to keep us voiceless. those that have gone before say no more. >> they will kill our children. they will try to get inside your head. >> enough is enough. we've built a path as we came rock final round. -- iraq ir rock by rock. >> it will be open season. >> may i have a word? >> there is no word to be had.

>> ♪ the people ♪ >> there are 70 million people watching you pessimists make a massive demonstration. >> white flag, and otherwise all caps on i asked i cannot just stand by. >> i have seen the glory. lori -- glory hallelujah. >> enough is enough. >> am pleased to have our guest at the table for the first time. you would think when you see this and the remarkable performance this was an idea

that arrived when day and then the next it was a motion picture. >> it did not happen that way. my first encounter with the script was in 2007 not long after moving here to try and pursue a hollywood career. that was from london. i was born in the u.k. and lifted nigeria. most of my life was in the u.k.. the script hit my doormat in july of that year. i have to -- i had this visceral reaction to reading not just the script but it was something about the man. i had a peripheral knowledge of him like a lot of people. the speech in march on washington. i felt god tell me i would lay this role. >> was it about the man that you saw that you need you could get

that something about the dimensions of someone who was part of an american struggle but who was an american hero. >> he was an american hero but he did not walk around thinking i am a hero. i am an icon. he was a man with flaws and failings and weaknesses with transcendent qualities as well. where i connected with him is he is a man of faith and i am a man of faith. i am a father of four and he was a father of four. these were my entry points. he lived a life of not just talking about it at doing it. his great duration -- oration and things we know about him. he was plucked out of obscurity at the age of 26. and he did this for 30 years. >> when he took over the church.

>> he exhibited qualities i deeply admire as a man. those were the things that drew me to him. >> interesting thing about this film is that you get a chance to see that there were all the factors that are at play and it is a day by day endeavor and it is about strategy, it is about trying to understand what the forces are against you, it is about battles between young and not so young. it is different people who thought they had a better way and king was part of all those conversations. >> that is what i think is revelatory about the film. people think of nonviolence in the think of these preachers who headed up the movement as soft especially compared to malcolm x. >> he was more fiery. >> when you dig into this it was

incredibly subversive. the idea of using love to shame racists into taking a look at themselves. the idea of going into a place like selma and making sure the cameras roll while you provoke these people to do what they do behind closed doors and what they do when the camera is not rolling in front of the cameras. make them. it was not a dismissal or rejection of violence. it was using violence, the kind of violence that when exhibited brings about change which is what happened in selma. >> it was said maybe by president andy who knew that he mobilized the english language and took it to work, king did the same thing here. a nonviolent war from his side. not so nonviolent and all from the other side. >> right. this was the incredible -- incredible thing about the oratory that we celebrate. i feel why he was picked to do

this. you have to realize that he was a leader of leaders, not just a leader of people not just a voice for the voiceless. he was surrounded by incredible minds but what he was able to do is to bring all their ideas together and articulate them in a way that was actionable. and for me getting to speak those words the other thing you realize is his faith was a huge part of this. he had a spiritual conviction that he lived by and that he used to inspire people. he used the words, people did not always understand what he was saying but the force with which he was saying it and the cadence. he was able to shift between being with presidents and being with the people all with the way that he spoke. he was able to inspire johnson toward change and inspire these

people to put their lives in the line. >> what did he think of johnson? >> he was definitely mixed. >> but in the end. >> johnson did the right thing but he was cajoled and he was pushed. if bloody sunday had not happened he would have been able to put off the voting rights act. from johnson's point of view he had just passed the civil rights act in the wake of jfk's assassination. that was a huge thing to do soon after becoming president but that did not take away from the fact that voting rights, the denial of voting rights, it was a real problem in the south and it could not be put off. dr. king was right in pushing for this. i think -- >> johnson said you have one big thing, i have 100 big things. >> as a result dr. king was always going to have a layered and conflicted relationship with

any president because politicians are there to compromise. they are there to try and please everyone. for him it is a much more black and white thing. when those forces butt heads there would be fireworks. >> did you read "eyes on the prize"? and taylor branch's books. >> exactly. anything out there that i could imbibe, i did. the truth of the matter is, the king i found, the person, the tools that gave me the best tools for playing him came from talking to the wife of and are young. they would say he was a prankster. they would say he was a man who

did not think of himself as a hero. he said of them as a group that we did not think we were changing the world, we have these obstacles and we spent every day trying to overcome them. tehey were so young, they were in their 20's and 30's, dr. king was 36. john loomis was 23. this is remarkable. >> this is john lewish in 1998 remembering dr. king. >> he became a friend, a big brother a warm man and so caring. he did little things that make you feel like you were another warm, friendly human being. we were walking one day from selma to montgomery and i had been hurt during the early part

of the march and he was wearing a little cap and he took his cap off of his head and he put it on my head and said you need to protect your head, you have been hurt. your head needs to be protected and i will never forget that. he would ask how are you doing how are you feeling, is everything ok, he was a good listener and he was a very compassionate and beautiful human being. >> so there you go. >> it is so incredible to me watching that clip because the first amendment john lewis was on the set of "selma," i was dressed as dr. king and he walked up to me and he said dr. king, it is nice to see you again. which completely froze me and that he carried on. i think i met you in 1957 or was it 1958, he had this for long moment with me and i could see

how much he missed his friend. >> this is in front of the congregation demanding the vote. >> i do not have command of my own life. i cannot determine my own destiny. it is determined for me for people who would rather see me suffer than succeed. ino more, no more. that means protest, that means march, that means disturb the peace, that means jail that me ans risk, and htatthat means hard. we will not wait any longer. give us the vote. we are not asking, we are demanding. give us the vote. >> it was the director who said

about "selma," it was a story about voice. what did she mean? >> it is about the people making their voice known. about a leader giving voice to the voiceless. enough is enough which you see when dr. king asks for people to come down with a conscience and help us tell the president this is not ok. this is, there were people whose voices were trampled upon, the literacy test, all these means by which people were kept away from being able to register to vote. they needed a voice. >> what is oprah's role in this? >> she was the change agent. the seven years journey was marked with so many

disappointments, so many frustrations, a lot of them were to do with the budget, we did not have enough money, i think there was an undercurrent of if the gas is the world ready for black characters playing the protagonists, being the driving force behind their own narratives. we have seen these kind of films told through white eyes, through white characters. this clearly wanted to be one in which dr. king was the driving force. the script i read had lbj more as the driving force. there were lots of factors at play but having met him and told him my dream and desire to do this and then asking her to join us, she was the rocket fuel we needed. >> and then the role of the director. >> i had met ava on a film we did called "middle of nowhere."

a small film. i set down next to a stranger on a plane who happen to be watching a show i did "mi5" and he turned to me and said is this you? he said is putting money into ideas -- movies a good idea? i read the script and i was blown away by the writing. the title of the script, her name and phone number was on there. i called her up as my bags were coming around the carousel. not only did i tell someone to put money in the script i want to be in this movie. she has a directorial voice like no one i encountered and that is when i started lobbying hurt to direct. >> what is that voice? >> she mines humanity from characters pre-much like --

pretty much like no one else i have worked with. she is inas interested in silence as she is words. she is a director so she is interested in words. there is something great about what she does on the line as well is off the line. i have been taught that true acting is reacting and i saw her get things out of me in the middle of nowhere that i did not know were in there. i always knew that in playing dr. king what i could not afford to do is further accentuate what we already know. i needed someone who could guide me to what we have done. the fact that in many ways what john lewis just said in that clip, the friend, the kind person who is not just projecting christian love and duty but who would take his hat off and for his friend who would listen to john lewis in a car when he feels like i cannot go

on as we show on the film and this young man says to him, i once heard you in the pulpit saying fear not, we have come too far to turn back now. and for him to be a man of humility enough for the sandman to be the catalyst for him to be -- keep going. that is not only a leader, that is a man of humility. >> and then john lewis became a congressman. >> he did. >> this is one more clip. roll tape. >> dr. king, i want to tell -- help, tell me how. >> i'm here to speak specifically about the denial of the basic american right to the negro citizen, the right to vote. technically, we already have it yes, mr. president, but we both know in the south, black voters are kept off the rolls and out of the voting booths by

systematic intimidation and fear. >> youyou ask how you can help. we want federal writ -- legislation granting negroes the right to vote unencumbered. >> well, that is fine. most of the south is still not desegregated. let's not start another battle one we have not won the first. this voting thing is going to have to wait. >> in the judgment of many african-american leaders i know a good portion of them, lyndon johnson was -- played such a positive role. he was there, he was in the power of the presidency having been nudged to do it which made him and i think some of the people around king said it. >> you cannot get around from the fact that he passed the civil rights act and the voting rights act. his legacy was dented by the

vietnam war. and every thing that came after that. it is indisputable. but sometimes people forget, this was also a time in history where the power of the people was indisputable. whereby citizens made their voices known and even in that clip we just saw them to have a leader who can articulate what the needs are, that is invaluable and that is something as we watch what is going on in the nation right now post-ferguson and the eric turner situation, that is something i feel is missing. being able to articulate what we need and having the pressure of the people force that agenda into actual change. >> this is a good time in your life. >> it is a very good time. i am having a good time. look at me. i am here with you. >> thank you. i'm honored that you are here. i saw your movie over the weekend in which you play a cop.

>> a da. >> you were in "interstellar." >> if we say anymore, people will start to dislike me. >> it is an interesting time. do you feel -- chris rock in an interview with me said if you are an african-american, it is different. denzel believes he has to do something different then tom cruise has to do. it is part of a payback to people like king and others to carry forward the opportunity and the possibilities for african-americans. >> one of the difficult things about being a black actor, a black person in the public gaze

right now is that everything you do has to injure a scrutiny that my weight peers do not have to injure her. -- to endure. when i open doors, they are not shutting unless people come through to blow the hinges off. the director is nominated -- the first african-american woman to be nominated for golden globe. it others do not come up behind her quite soon she will be the one and i would say that sidney porteous was -- poitier was the one and it becomes a locator he -- placatory way to be the one. >> there is no roadblocks for all of them.

>> right. the same thing about having a black president. this phrase, post-racial america started to come in which we are seeing that is not true. even though i am having a great time, i pretty much worked out mathematically that i have to work twice as hard to get half as far as my white counterparts which means i have to work for times is hard to be on an equal footing. i do not dislike that because i do think that in order to do what i do, the harder you work the better the results. but the fact of the matter is that even when you look at ava who is clearly and beautifully being celebrated for what she has been able to do with this movie, she will not get the same raft of opportunities she would have done if she was a white male and that is -- has to do with the people who are the decision-makers. they give opportunities to people who look like them. at the end of the day, especially movies, we want to see ourselves.

what you see in the big screen tends to be reflective of the decision-makers. i do not want to be one to complain about it. what this has shown me is that no one is going to tell my stories better than me and that has been beautifully demonstrated by ava being excellent at what she does and a $200,000 movie that she did out of her own blood, sweat, and tears and this takes her name to path a and then someone with oprah's power comes long and further gives the platform. we have to do it ourselves. we have to rely on the studios -- do not have to rely on the studios. be excellent and you will be fine. >> great to have you here. david oyelowo is the star of "selma." he plays dr. martin luther king. everyone is raving about the film because it is history and you have the sense of being there and you feel the fear and feel the hope and all of those

things that are part of the dynamic of change. "selma." back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

x patricia clarkson is here starring in the broadway revival of "the elephant man." the "new york observer" calls it one of her wittier performances. nice to have you here. >> i'm so happy to be here. >> i love "the elephant man," you are magnificent and so is bradley and the rest of the cast. before that why has it taken you so long to come back to broadway? >> many reasons. i blame it on blanche to blog -- dubois. blanche is so depleting, it is

so soul-sucking and such a massive undertaking that it left me in a different place. you never quite recover, anyone who has ever played blanche will tell you. i was left in a different place. i needed to take a break and it was doing all these films, -- i was doing all these films fortunately, i am very thankful. i kind of got caught up in that and then the wonderful extraordinary rather cooper. i met him at a premier. it was a serendipitous moment and he said if and when i do "the elephant man," i want you to play mrs. kendall. i knew the part and i love the play and i love the part and i said ok, whatever.

a year later i got a text from bradley and said you, me williamstown mrs. kendall. that was it. i decided it was the right time, it was the right project. he was the right person because i have great admiration for him and i knew of his profound love for this man, joseph merrick the great joseph merrick. he wooed me in a way that was just right. i felt it was right. what was i thinking? you know in the part, what was i thinking? i thought it would be a simpler path. >> you show a lot of yourself. >> i show a lot of myself and what was i thinking? it is also a journey i have

never taken before as an actress. it brought me to a new place. i am thankful for that. i am very thankful for that. >> who is ms. ckendall? tell us about john merrick. >> john merrick is this man who was hideously deformed and had a difficult and treacherous life and was in the carnival. he was a circus freak. but he is taken in by, he has this, these grotesque deformities that were rather unprecedented, and this extraordinary doctor, dr. treaves in the play, it takes him in and he became a cause c

elebre. he was this brilliant erudite funny, charming, slightly feminine, a winning man. and a truly --people always equate mrs. kendall and john merrick as the beauty and the beast but the truth is he was, he is the beauty and the beast. he was a man with tremendous beauty. >> hua shay? >> she is the celebrated actress of her time. ellen kerry-esque these great 19th century actresses, i am thrilled to be playing one of. madge kendall was a famous actress at the time and that is an amalgam of madge kendall and

this widow that befriended him. madge kendall never actually met john merrick. he -- she just raised money for him but the first person, the first woman that ever took him in and shook his hand was this widow this wealthy widow because he became friends with many wealthy people in his time. mrs. kendall the playwright has merged these pivotal women in his life, his benefactor and the woman who spent time, so i played this wonderful famous actress of the time. >> john merrick sees a kindred spirit. >> we are definitely conducted -- kindred spirits. we have had rough roads in our different journeys and paths through life and i meet him at a very beautiful and specific time

in my life and i think he saves me, i save him and even though we are playing an actress it is such a minor part of the character in a way. because what is the focus for me and what is the heart and soul of mrs. kendall is, her relationship and her deep, profound love for john merrick. >> you also say kindness. >> kindness. she has, it is very moving to me. i really get to play such kind and lovely people. -- rarely get to play such kind and lovely people. >> howdy think casting directors see you? -- how do you think testing directors see you? >> i have done so much work now. now i think -- it is willing to

play someone with such goodness and she is quite witty and effervescent and busy. she is not all warm and go he but she does have -- many women who have come backstage to see me after the performance you inspired me. >> you are aspiring to be what? >> just the level it is a deep kindness she is genuinely giving and genuinely present and genuinely open and available. >> open and available? >> we are going there. >> this is pbs.

>> was it hard for you, how was it hard to disrobe on stage. 300 people. >> it is 780. disrobing every night and a very deeply emotional place, i say this beautiful line to him which is the truth of the unveilings we have during the course of the evening and i say i am so happy i am his confidant, and i say i am flattered and i say too little trust has maimed my life. i trust you. trust is an important thing. and i love him. i have such true real feelings

for him. >> this is one more layer, that on peeling. >> i find it deeply heartbreaking that he has never seen a woman naked or nude in front of him with an outpouring of affection and he has never had a moment to view someone that he loves naked in a chaste or sexual or chaste way and our relationship runs that fine line that it is a sexual and a chaste love affair mixed into one. the moment of the disrobing, it is hard to explain because i have done so much work as an actress at this point in my life and i have had so many deep and emotional moments in my work

that --incredible parts i have been afforded but there is something about this woman. that is difficult every night, and it has never gotten even -- easy and a hope it never does. it is always a moment of sadness and loss and yet i would not want to change a moment of it. i would not do anything differently. every night when i get to that moment, i have to be there, in the moment, and i do it for him, and that is what i'll always have to remember. it is for him.

i am glad. i don't want to make it out to be too precious but it is a big moment. i am not 25. that is also may be in its own way what is beautiful. i am not even 45. again, what was i thinking? >> so the play itself and bradley, it is a great moment for him. he is a good friend of mine as you know. to see him right now, i have seen him do this, i know how long he has wanted to do this and he called me and said you have got to, up because i am going to do that. how long did you do it? >> for two weeks. and the artistic director said been doing and see how it is, i will give you the space. we did it in a small stage and

ran it for two weeks but we had the time of our lives. we knew something was right. and all of the feelings, all of this, it has been inside of bradley for some many years, this man enter -- and he reminds us that we are doing it to honor joseph merrick. there is a large photograph of him in his dressing room and we look at it all of us, we do it to honor him. it is a stunning moment for bradley right now and i am thankful to be part of it. he is a dear friend, and he is someone he is a consummate actor and professional. >> he is unbelievable what clint eastwood has done with him. >> he came to see the play. clint eastwood backstage at a

theater. hell o clint. >> he is about 85. >> he looks amazing. you still look amazing. i did the last "dirty harry" with him. it is a thrilling moment for him and it is a moment that is earned and deserved and a moment, he is cut no corners and every single night, me, bradley alessandro this incredible supporting cast and we are led by him, the power and energy he has, we step out every night and give a performance that we hope is memorable is indelible. that is what we hope to take everybody on a journey every single night.

>> where are you in terms of this life you have chosen for yourself as an actress? now you have a much admired portrayal on stage after 25 years, you get lots of movies you work with the best rectors. >> i have wonderful directors, yes. is this what you always hoped it would be? >> be careful, you will end up naked on broadway. >> or hang out with clint eastwood. >> i am thankful, and i am very satisfied with so much of where my life is at this point especially being an actress because i am an actress and life is and things are difficult, more difficult for us create it is a given that we can bemoan --

>> you can be an exception. >> there are many extraordinary actresses in their 50's, 60's, that are not but many are now who have much better careers than i. there are amazing, there is great work with the rise of independent cinema. it has given us a new place and a vital and exciting place in this business and it has -- we cannot be denied any longer. >> that is great. >> we cannot be denied. our films make money often at times, we win awards, we cannot be denied and people want to see films with women and their

50's and 60's. >> there is you and meryl and others. >> there is some of the performances this year i women in their 40's and 50's that are extraordinary. i just think i have reached a place but it is still a struggle area that is what i always say to young actors. the greatest people in our business, they never arrive. the most successful people in our business are always striving. our art always leaves you slightly unsatisfied and that is the nature of it. it always leaves you with yearning and it is so subjective . that can take a toll on you. >> you always believe you can do it better next time. >> you always believe there is something else that is attainable. there is some other level to your art, to your craft that should be reached, that -- and

as we age in this business, we do get better, it is that simple. we do because it is a muscle. unlike -- physiologically our muscles weaken but as an actor that muscle gets stronger. we have seen so much. i walk on stage every night as mrs. kendall and i have lived this life in my own personal way. every night when i walk out there, i bring what i have lived in these 54 years is a lot. and i am thankful for that because every single night, i bring that to the stage, i bring it for bradley and for the cast and our extraordinary director, scott ellis. i would not be able to play this part.

i would not have it in me. i would not have the emotional life. i would not be -- i would not have the backbone and the fragility which is what theater requires. >> backbone and fragility. >> it is a tough road you have to walk. >> have you consciously made sacrifices for that? >> some. i have walked away from certain jobs i thought would not be right for me that would compromise just what makes me happy. they were beautiful jobs but they just were not for me. they were not something that i would be -- something that would not excite me. it would not get me going. it would require great things. i would rather fail trying something that requires great things of me than doing

something -- >> someone was here recently and said, i will only take a role that is so challenging i think i might fail. >> yes. now those of us who are no longer really struggling actors, we are fortunate we have got to that place where we can make choices and a lot of actors do not have those choices for financial reasons or careerwise or whatever. i'm fortunate in that i have gotten to a place where i can make, they can choose, make decisions, i can be picky and i can say no. sometimes i will say yes to things scott ellis though i was not coming back to the theater. he thought i would say i love

you go -- i love you guys and i am not doing "the elephant man" and he goes, what do you mean? >> what have you sacrificed to have all this, anything? >> i sacrificed some financial gain. the places i could have gone. the apartments i could own now. i have sacrificed a few financial offers that were quite astonishing and flattering. >> you are married to aircraft. >> yes, i am in some ways first and foremost probably. i am able to admit that now. i do not think that is a bad thing. i love acting. it is a love in my life. and i don't think i am ok with that, and if people judge me

harshly because of that, i cannot change to im -- who i am. i do love it and sometimes a get overwhelmed and it is exhausting at times and enervating. i always hope that i rally. i always hope. >> thedo the roles get sexier? >> yes, thank god, thank you. i have been afforded with some of the sexiest roles, what iwas i thinking ten yeras ago when -- years ago when we were about to do the play. we got delayed and i kept saying boys, let's go. gravity. and they were like yeah.

no, let's go. we need to do the play now like this afternoon. so, you know but ia have -- i did this crazy photo shoot with this amazing photographer and could please crazy sexy photos for "interview" and iw was there with my publicist. i am in a unitard stretch out over a male model. i have to play this sexy part. the director of "cairo times" wrote another role, and it siis a

very sexy emotional part. the lead of the film. >> and does not get any better than this. >> i am so thankful that people keep disrobing me. and yet, also i am like, please objectify me. i like that with all this fabulous sexiness comes these stunning parts so the emotional life and the depth and gravitas that exists or the weight in the humor are matched equally and i

am just a wee sing full for that because that is the journey we ultimately want as an actor. >> to certain directors get more out of you? >> they get something different. i think they get whatever i need to bring to that part and i hopefully have shifted in some ways, a look different, -- i look different. >> what they see is what you have decided to bring to the part. >> it is hopefully what is required for that character, to fill the need and the ark of that character and it is always first and foremost an emotional journey for me when i am arriving at a character. it is rarely an intellectual. someone asked did you research

and i said i actually know a lot about 19th-century actresses. i was kind of obsessed about it when i was a young girl, these great actresses of the 19th century. i know about all of that. i have worn a corset, i konwnow the period. it is the emotional life that will betray you if you do not find it and it will be your biggest downfall as an actor always. if you do not have, if it does not sit very low, if the character sits here you have nowhere to go, and no director can help you, no actor can help you. no hair or makeup or wardrobe can help you if you have not figured out really how emotionally that character

proceeds, and i am not talking about what they had for breakfast. i am talking about where the emotional life of that character lies and so, when i have the opportunity to work with these incredible directors and i find it very moving that they continue to want to employ me, and i never take that for granted, never. i do my homework. i do the hard work. i hope. >> the best always do. thank you for coming. >> thank you, charlie. ♪

>> "with all due respect" to michael grimm, we do not just threaten to throw people off balconies around here. >> happy new years, sports fans. biggest winners of 2014 and the biggest losers. scalise is a number three in the republican leadership.